Transcript [00:00] Welcome to our virtual gathering as we [00:02] honor the memory of September 11. I'm [00:05] Thea Weaselier, director of public [00:07] programs at 70 Faces Media, the parent [00:10] company of JTA. [00:13] Tonight carries a profound dual weight. [00:16] We are marking a solemn milestone in [00:18] history during the days of awe, our [00:21] traditions supreme season of memory, [00:24] accountability, and introspection. [00:27] In his post 911 book, Longitudes and [00:30] Attitudes, Thomas Freriedman argued that [00:33] the era required a deep shift in how we [00:36] view our shared humanity. As a Jewish [00:39] community, at the threshold of a new [00:42] year, this framework is familiar. The [00:45] high holidays are our annual period to [00:48] examine our own logitudes and attitudes [00:51] to look at space we occupy and choose [00:54] empathy and repair over indifference. [00:58] And now it is my pleasure to introduce [01:00] our speakers. Thomas L. Freriedman is an [01:04] internationally renowned New York Times [01:06] columnist, author of seven best-selling [01:09] books, and recipient of three Pulitzer [01:11] prizes. Since 1981, he has reported [01:14] extensively on global politics, Middle [01:17] East conflicts, and the environment. Tom [01:21] will be interviewed by Hillary Kger, [01:23] executive editor of JTA. Hillary's [01:27] distinguished career includes a decade [01:29] at the Jerusalem Post and editorial [01:31] leadership roles at the Washington Post, [01:34] CNN, and NBC News. It is now my [01:38] pleasure. Please join me in welcoming my [01:40] friend Tom Freriedman and Hillary to our [01:43] stage. [01:48] >> Thank you so much to my colleague Theo [01:50] Weaselier um who created this event [01:53] bringing us all together on this [01:54] important occasion. And thank you so [01:57] much to everyone in the audience uh for [01:58] joining us for this in conversation. [02:01] Thank you most of all to Tom for [02:04] spending his time with us this evening. [02:07] On September 11th, uh I was in my [02:09] hometown of Boston where I was spending [02:11] a few months preparing for my move to [02:14] Israel. After the attacks happened, I [02:16] was glued to CNN, but my Bible was Tom's [02:20] columns. They gave me insight, guidance, [02:24] and reassurance at a time when I deeply [02:26] needed all three. [02:29] I wasn't the only one touched by what [02:30] you wrote. Of course, um, some people on [02:32] the Pulitzer committee appreciated your [02:34] words as well. Um, but there's no [02:37] question that yours was the definitive [02:39] voice of perspective after 9/11 for me [02:42] and for so many others and it is a true [02:45] honor to have this conversation with you [02:47] on this significant anniversary. [02:50] >> Great to be with you and thanks to Thea [02:52] too for organizing this. Really a [02:54] pleasure. [02:55] Um, just a note to the audience before [02:57] we dive in, um, if you have any [02:59] questions, if you could please put them [03:01] in the Q&A and we'll hope to get to as [03:03] many of them as possible. [03:06] So, to get started and set the scene for [03:09] us, um, can you tell us where you were [03:11] on 911? Um, how did you find out what [03:14] had happened and and what were your [03:15] immediate thoughts? [03:17] >> Well, ironically, uh, Hillary, as you [03:20] know from my book, I was in Israel. Um [03:23] uh I had gone to I was staying at the [03:26] King David in Jerusalem on September [03:29] 10th and September 11th I drove down [03:31] with um my driver Yoram who's been with [03:34] me for 25 years whenever I've been in [03:37] Israel. Um and we uh went down to Tel [03:40] Aviv University where I had an interview [03:42] appointment with Itamar Rabinovich, the [03:44] president of the university arranged by [03:46] his spokeswoman or Fromemer who was also [03:50] there with us. Uh met in Itamar's office [03:54] uh finished the interview, walked out to [03:56] my car and um my driver Yoram said, "Uh [04:01] Tom, a plane just hit the World Trade [04:03] Center." [04:05] So initially thought it must have been a [04:07] terrible accident, you know, some small [04:09] plane. But I went back into Eatimar's [04:12] office and um uh we turned on the [04:15] television together, he or I, and we [04:19] watched the whole story unfold uh along [04:23] with so many others. Um and the twin [04:25] tile is to go down. [04:28] So uh like everyone else, I was [04:31] completely stunned. Um I wanted to get [04:33] back to my office in sorry my hotel room [04:36] in Jerusalem but they cut the road um [04:38] from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem uh because [04:41] obviously Israel was panicked didn't [04:43] know if they were the next target and so [04:46] uh they didn't want people moving around [04:47] at all. So um I checked myself into the [04:51] television filter. Um but um more [04:54] importantly um I knew some senior people [04:57] at the Ministry of Defense and that [05:00] night I called them and said um I need [05:04] to know everything you know about [05:06] suicide bombing. Uh now remember this is [05:09] 2001. Israel's just emerged from the [05:13] whole spate of suicide bombings by Hamas [05:17] uh following the collapse basically of [05:20] the uh negotiations on Oslo or on on a [05:23] two-state solution. And so um we met the [05:27] next morning at 7 a.m. Um bunch of us at [05:31] the Ministry of Defense and their [05:33] experts and they were interested in what [05:35] I knew from my time in Lebanon. Um and [05:38] uh we just sort of batted around ideas [05:41] and uh I tell you Hillary, they um the [05:44] conclusion that I took from their [05:47] comments um their experts is something [05:50] that shaped my coverage for the rest of [05:53] days on this issue. Um uh I would [05:57] summarize it this way. Um they said, [05:59] "Here's what we learned about suicide." [06:01] Um [06:02] they said, "You know, Tom, we're really [06:04] good. Um, we can get Y Muhammad before [06:06] he blows up the pizza parlor. We can get [06:08] um, Gibron before he, you know, blows up [06:11] the bus, but Khalil will get through [06:15] unless the village says no. [06:18] >> Takes a village. It's one thing if you [06:20] call this martyrdom, it's another if you [06:23] call it murder. And so um that really [06:27] shaped my coverage ever after that, um [06:30] the this kind of violence, incredibly [06:32] apparent violence, um happens in a [06:34] context and um it all you know religion [06:39] um is not angry or not or or or [06:42] peaceful. It depends on the context [06:44] within which it's embedded. And so, um, [06:47] I then basically went on a three-year [06:50] journey, um, uh, around the Arab Muslim [06:53] world to try to understand the roots of [06:55] 911, [06:57] uh, because I was one frightened and [06:59] angry person for what had been done to [07:01] my country. And so, um, uh, one of the [07:05] places I went to was India, uh, a [07:08] country I'd covered a lot. And um as I [07:12] asked myself the question, you know, [07:14] what is the um uh what is it now? The [07:19] the uh um second largest Muslim country [07:24] in the world. Um the largest is [07:27] Indonesia. People mostly would say Saudi [07:30] Arabia or Pakistan, not even close. [07:33] Second largest Muslim country in the [07:34] world is India. [07:36] But as we learned about 9/11 and the [07:38] hijackers, what was interesting is there [07:41] were no Indian Muslims on that plane. [07:43] There were no Indian Muslims even in [07:45] al-Qaeda as we knew. I said, "That's [07:48] really interesting. How could it be that [07:51] the second largest Muslim country in the [07:53] world was completely unrepresented [07:55] now uh in this event and and in [07:58] al-Qaeda?" [07:59] And then of course I answer that [08:00] question by saying maybe it's because um [08:02] there's an Indian Muslim woman on the [08:04] Indian Supreme Court. Maybe because at [08:07] the time the president of India ap [08:11] was an Indian Muslim. Maybe because at [08:13] the time the richest man in India Azim [08:16] Premi the head of whipro was a Muslim. [08:20] Um so maybe it depends on the context [08:23] within which people live their lives. [08:25] And if they live their lives in a [08:26] context where they see opportunity um uh [08:30] and chances at equality um that's going [08:33] to be reflected one way and um if they [08:36] don't um that's going to be reflected in [08:39] a very different kind of interpretation [08:41] of Islam. So that was the immediate [08:46] reaction I had to 911 and and how I [08:48] framed it. you know, basically that um [08:51] which is why I ultimately actually [08:52] supported the Iraq war for not for WMD [08:54] reasons but for democracy reasons that [08:58] if we could actually partner with Iraqis [09:00] to change the context in the heart of [09:02] the Arab Muslim world to bring [09:04] consensual politics to Iraq um uh [09:07] between Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds um at [09:10] the heart of the Muslim world that would [09:11] radiate out and impact everybody [09:14] and I will tell you I never did the [09:16] Katamu um please forgive me, let me [09:19] write for, you know, uh, whoever. Um, [09:22] uh, because I I was a consenting adult, [09:25] uh, on Iraq and, um, I'd be the first to [09:28] say right now that whatever we as [09:31] Americans paid for it [09:34] probably wasn't worth it. um uh in in [09:37] terrible lives and treasure and [09:38] reputation. [09:40] But Iraq's had five I believe free and [09:42] fair elections um uh you know uh over [09:46] the over this span since then. Um and if [09:49] you talk to Iraqis, I don't think [09:51] there's a lot of them that would want to [09:53] go back to what they had before. I was [09:55] the graduation speaker at the [09:56] international university in Sudan in [09:58] Kurdistan. Um and so uh Iraq has the [10:03] potential. It's still a hugely corrupt [10:05] place, but it still has that potential [10:07] to be now like Syria, you know, a more [10:11] consensual uh open uh theater where um [10:15] you have [10:17] different faith all together, but I [10:20] think that a lot better worth a longer [10:23] debate. But I have a much larger and [10:27] this also came out in my coverage lens [10:29] on what happened on 911. Um, so I went [10:34] to undergraduate at Brandeise. I [10:36] graduated in 1975. I got a Marshall [10:38] scholarship. I went to Oxford. Uh, [10:40] actually school for instant African [10:42] studies in London. Went to Oxford. Got a [10:44] class of British Arabist education at [10:46] St. Anony's College, Oxford. And then [10:48] got hired in 1978 on Fleet Street right [10:51] out of college for United Press [10:53] International, the wire service. It was [10:55] my first job. And um, I was there for a [10:58] year. I got married in London. Um uh my [11:01] wife Anne was from De Moine, Iowa. I had [11:02] to go to London to meet a girl from De [11:04] Moine. Uh we got married Sun and um lo [11:08] and behold, I think it was about nine [11:09] months after I started, maybe been a [11:11] little bit more. The number two man in [11:13] the Bayroot Bureau of UPI got shot in [11:16] the ear by a man robbing a jewelry [11:17] store. And he said, "I want to get out [11:20] of here. I do not want to collect go. I [11:22] do not want I want to go home." So they [11:26] turned to me and said, "Hey, your [11:27] predecessor just got shot. would you [11:29] like to go to Beirut? And uh and I said, [11:32] "Oh, that's that's what I came for, you [11:34] know." So, uh lo and behold, in uh May [11:38] of 1979, [11:40] uh Ann and Tom Freriedman packed up [11:42] their luggage and went off to Beirut in [11:44] the heart of the Lebanese civil war. [11:47] Here are the first five stories I [11:50] covered in 1971. [11:53] the Iranian revolution, setting in [11:56] Afghanistan, the signing of the Camp [11:58] David Peace Treaty, the opening of a [12:00] port in a then obscure place called [12:03] Dubai by Queen Elizabeth 2, the Jebel [12:06] Ali port, a three-mile island nuclear [12:09] accident, which meant we didn't build a [12:10] nuclear plant for basically 40 more [12:12] years, which made oil that much more [12:14] important. Last, but not least, covered [12:18] the takeover of the Grand Mosque in [12:20] Mecca. Now everybody knows about the [12:23] Iranian revolution. Nobody knows or very [12:26] few people actually know about the [12:27] takeover of the Grand Mosque in Mecca [12:29] which was actually in time as important [12:32] if not more than the Iranian revolution. [12:35] So let me bring you up to date for those [12:37] who who may not have followed it. Um, in [12:40] 1979, [12:42] Muslims often bring uh caskets to the [12:45] Cabba in Mecca uh with dead bodies and [12:48] and they circumambulate the Cabba so [12:50] people be close to God before they bury [12:51] them. Well, on this day [12:54] in 1979, [12:56] uh, a group of Muslim jihadists came [12:59] with caskets and they opened them up and [13:02] there are no bodies inside. They were [13:03] full of rocket the grenades and machine [13:05] guns. They took over the Grand Mosque in [13:08] Mecca for basically a month until the [13:11] French Foreign Legion was brought in and [13:13] they had to gas them out of the [13:14] catacombs. [13:16] Now um uh let me give you the right [13:20] analogy for this. A group of radical [13:22] Catholic priests take over the Vatican. [13:25] They go up in the spires for 30 days. [13:28] They broadcast to the entire Catholic [13:30] world that the pope is a drunkard, a [13:33] gambler and a womanizer. [13:36] That is what uh these radicals did. Only [13:39] they said the alsudes are drunkards, [13:44] woman chasers and gamblers. Well, this [13:48] was a complete shock to the Saudi [13:50] system. And um once they got them out [13:53] and executed all the uh the rebels um [13:57] these jihadists, they um uh also said, [14:01] "Well, that's not going to happen [14:03] again." [14:04] Now, before 1979, there were women [14:07] musicians on Saudi television. There [14:10] were women airline attendants on Saudi [14:12] airlines. [14:14] And all of that stopped and the Saudi [14:16] ruling family took a giant right turn. [14:20] basically handed over all education and [14:22] religious affairs to the most [14:24] puritanical Muslim leadership to protect [14:27] themselves. [14:29] And they took the entire Arab Muslim [14:31] world on a giant right turn from Morocco [14:34] to the Finsbury Mosque to Indonesia, [14:38] Afghanistan to the Middle East and they [14:41] changed the face of Islam [14:44] in doing so. then the Soviet invasion of [14:46] Afghanistan, the combination of these [14:48] things and the Iranian revolution which [14:50] made a competition between who's the [14:52] most authentic Muslim nation, the Shia [14:54] of Iran or the Sunnis of Saudi Arabia, [14:58] you started a kind of cycle of [15:01] radicalism [15:03] indulging those puritanical Wahhabi uh [15:07] fundamentalist views of Islam. Change [15:09] the face of Islam. I was a student at [15:10] the American University of Cairo in [15:12] 1974. [15:14] If you looked around then there were [15:17] virtually no women who were covered. If [15:19] you you know class picture [15:21] >> after 1979 [15:23] more and more women are covered. All of [15:26] this was a byproduct of what happened in [15:28] 1979. [15:30] So when the Iranian revolution happened, [15:32] sorry, when the um uh um [15:36] when um uh [15:39] the um [15:40] >> 911 happened, [15:40] >> so 911, excuse me, yeah, when 911 [15:42] happened, um I went [15:48] >> completely went off on Saudi Arabia and [15:51] said, "This is you and your ideology and [15:55] what you spawned in 1979, and this was [15:58] the natural [15:59] outcome. I'm putting you in the dock and [16:04] I was a problem for them. And so um in [16:07] February 19 in two February 2001 Adal [16:10] Juber said to the foreign minister but [16:13] then the spokesman of the Saudi embassy [16:16] said to me um have you ever been to [16:18] Saudi Arabia? I said well I've been [16:19] there with Jim Baker for one day 18 [16:22] times. And um he said we'd like to [16:25] invite you uh to come to Saudi Arabia. [16:28] Um I mean I was that much of a problem [16:30] for them. Uh and um I said uh okay but [16:35] before I went I did a column um in the [16:38] voice of President Bush saying hey Arab [16:42] League you want to turn back what you've [16:44] done. The Arab League should put a peace [16:47] plan down on the table calling for peace [16:50] between every Arab state and Israel full [16:53] Israeli in return for full Israeli [16:55] withdrawal from the occupied [16:56] territories. full Arab um uh [16:59] normalization of relations, trade and [17:01] tourism. I wrote that film. [17:03] >> Then I went off to Saudi Arabia. So I [17:05] was there a week. I had a lot of clashes [17:07] with people. I was one angry person. And [17:10] um and at some point they were probably [17:13] regretting that they invited me. [17:14] Anyways, after I was there for a week, [17:16] then Crown Prince Abdullah, who was the [17:19] de facto leader of the Kukas King FOD [17:21] was incapacitated, [17:22] invited me to his ranch, his horse range [17:25] for them with Ada. [17:27] We had dinner, one of these big dwans, [17:29] all these guys sitting around watching [17:31] TV and big groaning buffets. And at [17:34] midnight, um, Crown Prince Abdales said, [17:37] um, let's go back to my house. So, he [17:40] went back to his house in his living [17:42] room. He had a little desk, right? He [17:44] was on one side, I was on the other. And [17:47] Adel was translating between us. I [17:49] couldn't stand it out. That's immediate [17:50] Adel. And uh Crown Prince Abdullah said [17:53] to me, um [17:55] uh [17:57] you broke into my drawer. I said, "Your [18:00] highness, what what are you talking [18:01] about?" He said, "You broke into my [18:03] drawer. Uh that peace plan you put out, [18:07] that was my idea." He said, "Oh, no. [18:11] Tell me [18:13] that." Yes. [18:14] >> Repeated back to me my column. [18:16] >> So at 3 in the morning after we went [18:19] over this, I finally said, you know, [18:20] your highness, you need to share this [18:21] with the world since this is your idea. [18:24] Um, and he said, "No, you just say it." [18:26] You know, like I'm thinking it. I said, [18:28] "Actually, no, you say it." He said, [18:30] "No, no, you say it." I said, "No, [18:31] actually, you say it." Was in between [18:34] translating. [18:36] And finally, I said, "You know, here's [18:37] what I'm going to do. I'm going to write [18:38] it up just as you said it. Um, I'm gonna [18:41] go back to my hotel room right now and [18:42] then I'm going to fax it to you and [18:44] you'll tell me if you're good with it. [18:47] So, I stayed up all night, wrote it up, [18:49] faxed it to them at 11:00 a.m. Hour [18:52] later they said go with it. Thought, "Oh [18:55] my goodness, [18:57] this is interesting." [18:59] I um then the next day he asked me if [19:01] I'd go see his brother um um um um [19:06] Muhammad um uh um uh the interior the [19:12] interior minister um um blanking on his [19:16] name right now. And I went to see him [19:19] and I went to his office who we' never [19:20] met before um uh sat down in front of [19:24] his desk um and he said um is it true [19:29] that the Jews control all the banks in [19:31] America? First thing he asked me [19:34] >> and my initial reaction I wanted to say [19:37] you mean you know [19:39] we thought it was a secret. Um, but I [19:42] bit my tongue and I just gobbed it off [19:45] some. But I really I realized um uh it [19:49] was it was his brother knif who was the [19:51] interior minister and his and his son [19:52] Muhammad bin Knif who later become crown [19:54] prince was with us in the room. And so [19:57] you'll see how all this adds up and um I [20:00] realized that he didn't know what his [20:03] brother crown prince Abdullah had said [20:06] to him about this peace proposal. my [20:09] column wasn't going to come out till [20:10] Sunday. So, I didn't say. [20:13] >> Then he went and asked me to go see the [20:15] information minister and I realized he [20:16] hadn't told him either. Then on Saturday [20:19] night with the column about to go up, um [20:21] Otto called me and said, "Tom, do you [20:22] have Ari Fleer's phone number?" Then [20:25] Bush's spokesman. I said, "What? You [20:26] guys don't have an embassy in [20:27] Washington? You're asking me for Ari [20:29] Fleer's phone number?" [20:31] >> And he said, "Uh, no, we're not. We're [20:33] not using the embassy." [20:35] thought, "Oh my goodness, this is a coup [20:38] d'eta." [20:40] Um, this is Crown Prince Abdullah [20:43] stepping out on his own offering peace [20:46] with Israel. [20:48] So, the column I told Adel, you know, [20:50] I'm staying here till Monday because I [20:52] only care about one thing. My column is [20:53] coming out Sunday. How this is [20:56] translated in Arabic on the Saudi press [20:59] agents and it better be accurate because [21:02] I have a Wednesday column. So uh it came [21:05] out actually went down and translated [21:07] himself. It came out and then all hell [21:09] broke loose Saudi peace overture. Um and [21:12] the Arab League uh the next week called [21:14] a summit in Beirut [21:16] um to uh ratify and make it a peace [21:20] initiative. [21:21] >> Right. I remember very well that column [21:24] and I was a reporter at that time in [21:27] Jerusalem and so writing about that and [21:29] the aftershocks and I wonder um you know [21:33] when we talk about the reverberation of [21:36] 911 and um taking us through to today [21:39] and then we had what's called you know [21:42] speaking of being in Israel um you know [21:44] Israel's 911 on October 7th um and that [21:48] was coming on the eve of um you know the [21:51] sort of the the closing arc of that [21:53] story when Saudis were about to actually [21:55] normalize with Israel. I'm wondering, [21:58] you know, where you see us now in terms [22:02] of coming from 9/11 going through 107, [22:07] where we were so close from that Arab [22:09] peace initiative to the Saudi [22:11] normalization [22:12] um and and where we where we are now in [22:15] the region um with the Saudis, you know, [22:18] is normalization still an option? Can [22:21] there be sort of as you're sort of [22:24] pointing out to some sort of picking up [22:26] of the ashes from 911 to move forward? [22:29] You know, what prospect is there for [22:30] that to happen for us now? [22:33] >> Let me just quickly finish this story. [22:35] Oh, I'm so sorry. [22:37] >> Because they have the Arab summit and on [22:39] the first night of the summit, you'll [22:40] recall this Hillary, a Hamas suicide [22:42] bomber walked into a Passover seder in [22:44] Natana and [22:47] >> um killing I don't know 40, 50 people, I [22:49] remember, and wounding scores of people. [22:52] >> Yes, I remembering people of that. All [22:54] those people would say Hamas is a [22:56] thousand times better than Israel and [22:58] Hamas, you know, they just really wanted [23:00] peace and whatnot. This was way before [23:03] anything happened. That was Hamas's [23:05] answer to a Arab League peace initiative [23:10] and I never that [23:12] >> um [23:13] >> so just very quickly going forward um uh [23:18] what happened is that when then Muhammad [23:20] bin Salman appeared on the scene he [23:24] asked me to come interview him and I [23:25] interviewed him um I did the first [23:27] interview with him basically in I think [23:29] it was 2015 and just to tie up this [23:32] whole story Um it was clear he was a [23:36] completely radical change from the whole [23:40] way the country had been going and his [23:42] family thought King Abdullah was [23:44] transitioning out. There's a scholarship [23:46] program for young Saudis to travel [23:48] abroad. But at one point I said to [23:51] Muhammad bin Salman, "Oh, I know what [23:53] you're up to. You're here to reverse [23:56] 1979." [23:58] >> And that's what he's doing. So that's [24:00] the arc of the whole story for me. you [24:02] know, that's how it started. When I went [24:04] to Beirut, it ended. This is he did some [24:07] really terrible things, you know, [24:09] obviously with uh Kashogi, but the [24:12] project he's on, and the reason I've [24:14] never abandoned him completely is [24:17] because none of his weeny cousins ever [24:20] would have done what he did. Take the [24:22] religious police off the street, round [24:24] up the most radical preachers, let women [24:27] drive, open the society up, and reverse [24:30] 1971. That is a hugely important. [24:33] >> Um, and one of the tragedies of the war [24:36] in the Gulf is that the two countries [24:38] leading that enterprise, the UAE and [24:40] Saudi Arabia, are now both completely [24:43] distracted from that project, will have [24:45] to spend way tons of money now on new [24:48] weapons. And um, uh, and that is a very [24:52] sad byproduct. We can talk about that. [24:55] Um, so in terms of the Saudi [24:57] normalization now, that that ship has [25:00] sailed. that that is not going to happen [25:02] um uh anytime soon. Biden tried to [25:04] organize that. He set up the deal with [25:06] BB, opened peace talks with the PA on a [25:09] two-state solution. Saudi Arabia will um [25:12] uh normalize with Israel and we will [25:14] then give Saudi Arabia a security treaty [25:16] it wanted um and uh a nuclear civilian [25:20] nuclear program if you do that. BB [25:22] wouldn't do it. Um now that ship is [25:24] sailed. The last thing Muhammad bin [25:26] Salman needs right now um uh is uh [25:30] opening a domestic front by embracing [25:33] the Netanyahu government in Israel. And [25:35] so um I'm not saying it can't happen [25:38] again. I hope it will, but it's not on [25:40] the horizon anyway. [25:43] So, three years in, given what you're [25:46] saying, um three years in past 107, [25:50] what um would you say in terms of who's [25:53] winning this war that Hamas started? Um [25:56] I don't think we would say that al-Qaeda [25:57] won after 9/11, you know, who but [26:01] obviously it's a different scenario in [26:03] in Israel and the Middle East. So, how [26:04] do you assess where we stand now uh [26:07] three years in? [26:09] Well, to me, you know, I co, you know, [26:11] again, back up when the when this [26:13] government, this Israeli government was [26:15] first elected four years ago, I did a [26:17] column which was very controversial at [26:18] the time. Uh, the lead of which was the [26:21] Israel you knew is over [26:23] because I knew these guys. Um, when I [26:25] was an air time correspondent in Israel [26:26] was when Kahana was elected. [26:29] >> Well, I saw Shamir then used to actually [26:31] walk out when he would go up to the [26:34] beimma in the parliament, whatever they [26:35] call it, you know. Um, and uh, I knew [26:38] who these people were and I knew this [26:39] was going to be terrible. And so, um, I [26:42] got criticized a lot at the time. Oh, [26:44] you're exaggerating. No, I wasn't [26:45] exaggerating. I got that exactly right. [26:47] Okay. Um, the Israel, you know, is over. [26:51] And why? Because, um, Israel we knew is [26:55] over. Because I tried to explain to [26:56] American Jews, you did not go to camp [27:00] Rama with these people. Okay? There was [27:03] no Smootrich and Beng in the cabin next [27:05] to you. And by the way, they weren't in [27:08] the Catskills in the cabin next to you [27:10] there either. You've never met these [27:12] guys. These are Jewish supremacists, but [27:15] the former head of the of the Israeli [27:17] Mossad, Tamir Praau, compared to the of [27:20] Jewish Klux Clan. That's who these [27:23] people are. They're authentically [27:25] racist Jewish supremacists and they have [27:28] been empowered. And so um you know my [27:33] basically when the Gaza war started [27:38] >> they wrote Israel just please ask [27:42] yourself one question. What does Hamas [27:45] and what does Iran want me to do and do [27:48] the opposite? [27:50] Hamas wanted Israel to invade Gaza. Um [27:54] Iran wanted Israel to get bogged down in [27:56] Gaza. Um, and unfortunately Israel did [28:00] that. I understood that Gio, you [28:04] couldn't obviously just turn the other [28:05] cheek. I said actually respond to what [28:07] happened the way you did to the Munich [28:09] massacre, targeted killing of the people [28:12] responsible, not Dresden. Why? Because [28:16] in my other life, I don't just cover the [28:19] Middle East and don't just write books [28:20] about it. Um, you I'm Mr. globalization [28:24] and I knew what was going on with social [28:26] media and I knew what would happen if [28:30] you had this kind of war in the age of [28:32] Tik Tok and that is exactly what Senoir [28:36] the head of Hamas understood um and [28:39] basically they used the images from this [28:41] war to completely um uh which Israel and [28:45] Netanyahu's government gave them plenty [28:47] of fodder for um uh to to delegitimize [28:52] the Jewish [28:53] um for a whole gen new global [28:54] generation. So when they did invade [28:57] Gaza, I said, "Okay, I you you've [29:00] decided to do this. Um this is going to [29:02] take three things. It's going to take [29:04] time. It's going to take a huge amount [29:05] of resources. And because it's going to [29:08] take time, you need legitimacy, okay? [29:11] Because a lot of civilians are going to [29:13] get killed um given the nature of this [29:15] war. Um, and that that that human [29:19] sacrifice was definitely part we now [29:21] know from uh things that Seenir said, [29:23] part of his uh plan. So I said just do [29:28] if you're going to do this, it's not my [29:30] my my uh idea, but if you're going to do [29:33] this, you need to create a legitimate [29:35] framework for it. You need to have a [29:37] Palestinian partner, legitimate [29:39] Palestinian partner. So you're saying to [29:40] the world, it's a tragic that civilians [29:44] are being killed in this effort to [29:47] destroy and take down Hamas and replace [29:49] its leadership in Gaza. But our endeavor [29:52] is to create a different Palestinian [29:54] partner, to create a different context [29:56] in Gaza so we can get back to one day [30:00] two states for two people. That wouldn't [30:03] have solved all the problems. when you [30:05] kill thousands of children and and [30:06] civilians, it's it's not gonna but it [30:08] would have made a big difference. [30:10] Instead, what they did was they went to [30:14] war in Gaza in a way that was whatever [30:16] the right number of justified people [30:18] were for October 7th. 70,000 was the [30:22] wrong number. and they um uh they did it [30:26] out of with no political context at all [30:29] except more aggressive settlement of the [30:31] West Bank and trying to take down the [30:34] independence of the Israeli judicial [30:36] system. So basically, Israel was asking [30:38] the world, Netanyahu as Israel was [30:40] asking the world um to to help them [30:43] basically make themselves safe for a a [30:48] judicial coup or um uh basically trying [30:51] to push Palestinians out of the West [30:53] Bank. Well, is it any wonder that [30:55] actually didn't work out too well? Um uh [30:58] all then amplified by social media. So [31:03] what you do now I mean it's reminds me [31:06] of the story guy's lost goes to the [31:07] policeman says you know how do I get to [31:09] the JTA and he says well Hillary you [31:12] wouldn't start from here you wouldn't [31:14] start from here but here is where Israel [31:17] is and so um if you followed my writing [31:21] on Gaza from the very beginning my [31:23] attitude has been if you're looking for [31:25] someone to tell you who is the worst [31:27] person in this story you have the wrong [31:30] cowboy because I have been covering this [31:33] conflict and these different pizzas and [31:36] states since 1979. [31:39] I've seen everybody do terrible, [31:41] terrible things to each other. I'm about [31:44] one thing and it's the only thing I'll [31:46] talk to you about. How we get out of [31:47] this. How we get out of this. How we get [31:50] back to trying to separate. We got 7 [31:53] million Jews plus 7 million Palestinians [31:56] plus living between the Mediter [31:58] Mediterranean and the Jordanian River. [32:00] Nobody is going anywhere. That is a [32:03] complete fantasy. A one-state solution [32:06] is also a fantasy. So, how do we get [32:09] back to finding a way to separate these [32:11] people so each side can get can take [32:14] their shoes off? That's the only [32:15] conversation I will have with anybody. [32:19] >> And you've made clear in your columns [32:21] obviously that one of the important [32:23] steps is for Netanyahu not to remain in [32:26] power. And I'm wondering, you know, if [32:28] there is a change of government in [32:30] Israel, if you think that there that [32:33] really creates the potential for a [32:35] change in policy to do some of the [32:38] things you're hoping to see. Um, and [32:40] also in the United States, you know, [32:41] with Israel's image, for all the reasons [32:43] you've mentioned, really plummeting, [32:46] changing Netanyahu, does that change how [32:48] Israel is viewed in the United States, [32:50] or are we beyond that at this point? [32:54] >> Necessary, but not sufficient, you know? [32:56] Um, and I never say like it's over. [33:00] We're beyond it, you know, because the [33:05] the next sentence is then you have a [33:07] permanent forever war. That's basically [33:09] what um and a forever war in this modern [33:13] era not only will completely [33:16] delegitimize whatever shreds of [33:18] legitimacy Israel has for the rising [33:20] generations but the best of Israelis [33:23] will leave people the you know the elite [33:26] of Israel is not going to I wrote about [33:28] this last week just the entire medical [33:31] center of Israel doctors nurses [33:33] specialists has already migrated you [33:35] know um as a result of what's happened [33:37] in the last three years. So, um, they're [33:39] going to leave. Yeah. Um, and you know [33:42] what? Uh, uh, ultraorththodoxi Jews are [33:45] now 25% of Israeli kindergartens. They [33:48] double every 20 years. Well, you can see [33:50] where these lines are going to cross. [33:53] So, um, if you care about a Palestinian [33:56] state and the right of Palestinians to [33:57] self-determination, you care about a [33:59] Jewish state and the right of Jews to [34:00] self-determination and the need for them [34:02] to come together, um, I just don't go [34:05] there. I will be the last person. I'll [34:07] be the last person on the planet who [34:10] will give up on a two-state solution. Um [34:13] and uh because I think it's the only [34:15] way. It's the only just way. It's the [34:17] only way forward for people. And I don't [34:19] care what people say about it. Um [34:22] blessedly, Hillary, I have never looked [34:24] at Twitter. I've never looked at [34:25] Facebook. I've never looked at Tik Tok. [34:27] I've never looked at Instagram. And I [34:29] have never smoked a cigarette. And my [34:31] plan is to die saying all five. So, [34:33] whatever you're writing about me out [34:35] there, y'all have fun because I am not [34:37] reading it. I know where I'm going and [34:39] why, and I'm sticking to it. So, where [34:43] are we now? You asked a very important [34:44] question. [34:45] >> Okay. One thing we know for sure, [34:47] whoever is elected, if Eisenot wins puts [34:49] together a government, um, and that'll [34:52] be very lucky because I think we're [34:53] very, if you said bet on something, I'm [34:55] betting on another Israeli election. I [34:57] think it' be very difficult situation, [35:00] country so fragmented, but I hope it [35:02] isn't. I hope Eisencut is able to put [35:04] together a coalition of the center right [35:06] and center left and um uh and Arab [35:10] parties. Oops, I wasn't supposed to say [35:12] that. But um that's what I that's what I [35:14] believe. What what is the best you could [35:17] hope for? So the best you could hope for [35:19] is a peace process to get back to the [35:21] peace process. That is we are not going [35:24] from where we are now back to ASO2. [35:28] Yeah. I mean, you have two completely [35:30] traumatized populations. That that's [35:32] just not going to happen. And you can [35:34] argue tell your blue in the face who's [35:36] to blame, who's done worse. Again, not [35:38] interested. How we get from here to [35:40] there is not going to be in one leap. [35:43] So, the only way we get from uh here to [35:45] there is what I call peace process for [35:47] the peace process. And here I will, you [35:49] know, tell everyone listening, I'm a [35:51] firm believer that some things are true [35:53] even if Donald Trump believes them. So [35:55] tea, you know, I mean, uh, um, every [35:57] once in a while he does land on a good [35:59] idea. And the 20point ceasefire [36:03] agreement that Trump and Kushner and [36:04] Witkoff put together with with Hamas [36:07] representatives and and Israelis is [36:10] actually a beautiful bridge to the [36:11] future. um is actually if you actually [36:15] read what the plan is just beyond the [36:18] hostage exchange, the prisoner exchange [36:20] and the ceasefire, what the plan calls [36:22] for is a Palestinian technocratic [36:25] government to replace Hamas in Gaza. um [36:28] uh while the Palestinian Authority in [36:30] the West Bank is reformed um uh and then [36:34] once that process is complete um uh [36:37] negotiations for Palestinian Jewish [36:40] self-determination, [36:41] two states between two people [36:43] >> that that is the bridge back. I spent [36:46] last week I I I I had a chance to [36:48] interview Ali Shot who's the head of the [36:50] Palestinian technical government, former [36:52] minister in the PA, an engineer, really [36:54] clean, decent um uh kind of person. And [37:00] again, if I if Israel had a strategy [37:02] that was based on goodwill and trying to [37:05] not the malevolence of this government, [37:08] it would be doing everything it could to [37:11] get a Palestinian technical government [37:14] operating in Gaza with international [37:17] forces helping to protect them with [37:19] Hamas turning off over its weapons and [37:22] then create a competition between that [37:24] government and the Palestinian [37:26] Authority. who can deliver most for the [37:28] Palestinian people and then you go to [37:30] the PA and say part of this agreement is [37:32] you have to reform yourselves well your [37:34] brothers in Gaza are doing that and [37:37] you're kind of lagging behind and [37:39] Palestinians will see that and you [37:41] create this dynamic if Palestinians can [37:44] do what you wish they had done when [37:46] Israel left Gaza I'm not going to go [37:48] full Kushner and you know turn it into [37:50] Singapore [37:53] but turn it into a decent place that [37:55] delivers for Palestinians [37:57] um uh the kind of future they want and [38:00] deserve. That's how you begin to change [38:03] attitudes in Israel. You also need [38:05] Israelis who are ready to enable that [38:08] rather than stick spokes in the wheel, [38:11] which was Netanyao's entire project um [38:14] to make sure that there was never a [38:16] unified Palestinian Authority to always [38:18] strengthen Hamas to get Qatar to give [38:20] them a billion dollars um so that there [38:23] was a divided Palestinian [38:25] decision-making uh entity and Netanyahu [38:28] could go to every American president and [38:29] say, "God, I'd love to do peace with [38:31] them." But they're divided. because [38:33] they're divided because all I do is [38:34] divide them. So, um will any of this [38:38] happen? [38:40] A boy can do. [38:43] >> So, one of the other reverberations uh [38:46] from 107 has been here in the United [38:48] States and the Atlantic described the [38:52] golden age of American Jews as coming to [38:55] an end as a result of that. And I wonder [38:58] if you agree with that diagnosis. [39:01] I I agree that [39:05] >> period, you know, um you want to know [39:08] where the synagogue is any is on on any [39:10] any street, just look where the SWAT [39:12] team is. [39:14] Wow. I grandchildren, you know, um go to [39:17] Jewish day school. I belong to a [39:19] synagogue here, which I helped found. Um [39:22] and um you know Jews are in a really bad [39:26] place with just terrible national [39:28] leadership you know in my view. Um, and [39:32] so, uh, I I don't really have much to [39:37] add on that, Hillary. You know, it's [39:38] just so obvious, you know, um, uh, [39:41] people have taken permission from, uh, [39:46] what happened in the Middle East and [39:49] between Israelis and Palestinians, [39:50] particularly the most recent abuses by [39:52] settlers um, uh, in the West Bank. Um, [39:55] that has been enabled and and basically [39:58] given cover by the Netanyao government. [40:00] Um, so it's just we're in a real pickle. [40:05] Um, you know, Apex spent $32 million [40:09] trying to defeat other side in Michigan [40:12] in the primary. Imagine if it took $32 [40:16] million and gave a million dollars to [40:18] every Jewish day school in America. [40:21] Would we be a little better off, you [40:23] know, than burning that money up? Or [40:25] maybe if they sat down with Albasai um [40:28] and said, "Hey, you know, you've [40:29] actually said some things kind of [40:31] different than MAMI. You said Jews have [40:33] right to self-determination. [40:34] Palestinians do." What did you mean by [40:36] that? How can we encourage that? Yeah. [40:39] >> Now, God knows how much money they're [40:41] spending on him to um lose the the [40:44] actual Senate race with his Republican [40:46] opponent. His Republican opponent, who [40:48] was an election confirmer and now to win [40:51] Trump's endorsement, is an election [40:53] denier. And you'll pardon me if I care a [40:55] lot more about America right now than [40:58] what any candidate feels about Israel [40:59] and have another election denying [41:01] senator in the US Senate for six more [41:04] years. That doesn't sit well with me. [41:07] So, um I think one of the real tragedies [41:09] is Apac um basically went from being the [41:12] Jewish lobby, the American Israel [41:15] uh um public affairs committee to um to [41:19] BB's personal lobby in America. And um [41:22] as a result, American Jews have been [41:24] kind of ruthless, you know, um and and [41:28] uh I think people are really at sea, you [41:30] know, and [41:31] >> as traditionally though supported the [41:33] Israeli government. [41:35] >> Uh yeah, and and that's because you [41:36] always had Israeli governments that said [41:39] we will never choose between Democrats [41:41] and Republicans. We'll always maintain [41:43] bipartisan support. We'll never do [41:45] things in fundamental contradiction to [41:47] US interests like trying to expel [41:49] Palestinians from the West Bank and [41:51] destabilize Jordan. Okay. Uh we'll never [41:54] bomb Qatar, you know, uh in the middle [41:56] of a negotiation and at some point, yes, [42:00] you should I understand that Apac is [42:02] going to support the Israeli government. [42:04] But when the Israeli government becomes [42:05] a radical actor and tells APEC, you have [42:09] to choose between us and say President [42:10] Obama, that's not a choice. you're here [42:14] in America. Um, and I think that that [42:17] organization completely lost its way and [42:20] became a captive uh of Netanyahu and as [42:24] a result is, you know, completely [42:25] delegitimized in the idea in the eyes of [42:28] virtually the entire Democratic party [42:30] and talk to young Republicans. [42:33] So, uh, we're in a bad place as a [42:36] community. There's no sort of unifying [42:38] leadership that's speaking for American [42:41] interests and American values. and [42:44] Israel at the same time, but making [42:46] clear that our first priority is [42:48] American foreign policy interests and [42:51] American values. And if Israel departs [42:53] from that, then we will depart from you. [42:57] And so with the rise of you mentioned [42:59] Abdul als um in Michigan and um Mayor [43:03] Mandani in New York, you know, [43:06] candidates and politicians and other you [43:09] know DSA members who don't just um [43:12] object to the Israeli government and [43:14] policies, but really say that, you know, [43:16] it doesn't matter who's in charge, [43:18] Israel is the problem. And with the [43:22] momentum that you see there with what [43:24] you were pointing to in the right as [43:26] well, I mean, do you think that a split [43:29] between the Democratic party and Israel [43:32] is irreversible at this point and that [43:36] inevitably the GOP will be following or [43:38] do you think that this is, you know, [43:40] maybe a downturn, but it it can be [43:42] reversed? [43:43] >> All depends. I think you'll two things. [43:45] One is who wins this election, what [43:47] policies they adopt. [43:49] um and whether they do try to pursue the [43:53] Trump peace plan in a way that I I think [43:55] is in America's interest first and [43:57] foremost and and would be in Israel's [43:59] and Palestinians. So I think it depends [44:02] um very much on on what happens on the [44:05] ground. What I'm what I'm telling [44:07] Democrats who ask me whether they're [44:09] lawmakers or this is that um you know [44:14] the Democratic party's getting into a [44:15] real you know bad corner you know which [44:18] is just about who can out delegitimize [44:21] Israel the most and Democrats should [44:23] wrap themselves to me in American [44:25] interests and American interests have [44:27] always been going back to really Nixon [44:29] Kissinger um uh in many ways two states [44:32] for two people integrity of Jordan and [44:36] promoting more consensual government in [44:37] the Arab world. That's what we should be [44:39] about and not in a competition for who [44:43] can denounce Israel the most the loudest [44:47] and um you know uh in in in the most [44:50] extreme language. Where's that going to [44:52] get anybody? No. But what comes after [44:56] that? So [44:58] >> kind of let the radical extreme of the [45:01] party deflect Democrats [45:05] from where they should be, which is [45:07] defending the American interests and [45:10] American values. We are Americans first [45:12] of all and American interests have been [45:15] in two states for two people. The [45:17] integrity of Jordan um and promoting [45:20] more and more decent government in the [45:22] Arab world. That's where Democrats [45:24] should be. Now, I'm all for I totally [45:27] support what Britain did in um uh the [45:30] boycott of uh goods from the West Bank. [45:33] Um because uh basically [45:38] Israel's been laughing at us, you know, [45:40] for these right-wing parties have been [45:42] laughing at us for all these years. We [45:44] said, "Don't do that. You know, that's [45:46] that's illegal. That's wrong. That's not [45:47] in your interest. It's not in our [45:49] interest." And Netanyahu basically nods [45:51] and and goes ahead and does that. So, [45:53] I'm actually all for that. I I think if [45:56] you don't force Israel to make a real [45:59] tradeoff, you want these settlements, [46:01] you pay for it. We are not going to pay [46:03] for it. You pay for it. That by the way, [46:06] this is going to end up in talk too if [46:10] this process continues and there'll be [46:12] no stopping it. [46:15] What do you say though to those who say [46:18] Israel has tried to make peace, made [46:21] many offers Palestinians to have levels [46:24] of autonomy, even uh statehood under [46:28] it hasn't panned out. Um so, [46:32] you know, whether you agree with your [46:34] criticisms of Netanyahu, etc., there's [46:36] another side to this equation. And how [46:40] can you still be pushing for the [46:41] two-state solution in that context? Um [46:44] uh my answer to that question is you're [46:45] absolutely right. Um I've denounced [46:48] Palestinians for doing that. Um I think [46:51] it was wrong. It's not in their [46:52] self-interest. It was foolish, reckless, [46:55] um and and cowardly. Um you know what I [46:58] say, keep trying and then actually try [47:01] again and then try again and again and [47:03] again. Um and maybe even have to [47:05] unilaterally separate because the [47:08] alternative Hillary to that is not one [47:12] state. It's not um we're just fine. The [47:15] alternative is a forever war. Okay. If [47:19] you've been paying attention to other [47:20] things I've been reading about [47:22] technology and the change in uh actually [47:25] the physics of the world that's going on [47:27] now where the small can now act really [47:30] big. Ladies and gentlemen, I show you [47:32] Ukraine versus Russia, Hisbala versus [47:34] Israel, and Iran versus America. [47:38] Look where we're going. Okay? Anthropic [47:42] told us this week that it found that [47:44] Houthis [47:45] were downloading, they didn't name the [47:47] Houthis specifically, but a group in [47:49] Yemen. So, you know, we're downloading [47:51] their technology to help target American [47:54] vessels to explore weapons of of [47:56] biological weapons of mass destruction [47:59] and to uh improve their rockets. Can I [48:02] just remind people of something? The [48:04] Houthis are in Yemen. Do you know what [48:06] the literacy rate in Yemen is? 50%. So a [48:11] country where half the people cannot [48:13] read or write are now getting access to [48:17] AI tools that are enabling them to take [48:20] shots at the US Navy. [48:23] What do you think that means for Israel? [48:26] you know, so um uh a little country in [48:29] the middle of all this forever war, [48:33] the world is going toward more and more [48:35] potent, widely distributed [48:38] weapons. That's going to be a disaster. [48:41] And again, I'm not blaming Israel at all [48:44] entirely for what this situation is. The [48:46] Palestinians have so messed up, okay? [48:51] But there's 7 million of them and [48:53] there's 7 million Jews. And the choice [48:55] now is a forever war in a technological [48:58] world where more and more people are [49:00] going to get access to more and more [49:02] potent weapons smaller and smaller [49:04] faster and faster or keep trying and [49:09] that's all I can think of. [49:12] >> No, I'll make a point which is which is [49:14] a a guiding light for me. Um I'm not [49:20] my motto in life is you can make a point [49:22] or you can make a difference. Okay. Make [49:25] a difference because yes, everything you [49:28] said is absolutely true, but also Israel [49:31] Netanyahu just spent 15, 16 years trying [49:34] to divide the Palestinians, manage the [49:36] conflict, do everything he could to [49:39] avoid actually testing what's going on. [49:42] And by the way, if you follow the [49:44] generals for Israeli security, I forgot [49:45] what the organization is called. You got [49:47] 600 generals, colonels, retired [49:49] intelligence agents, you know, all [49:52] demanding that Israel, this incredibly [49:54] creative country is creative about so [49:57] many things. But what was the last [49:59] creative thing you saw this Israeli [50:02] government do to try to actually [50:04] separate from Palestinians, let alone [50:07] use a new peace initiative? When was the [50:10] last creative thing you saw? The only [50:12] reason we got the the the Gaza agreement [50:14] cuz Trump broke Netanyahu's arm [50:16] basically um uh and forced him to do it [50:19] after as Trump said after he bombed Doha [50:21] or Kushner said this. It was so stupid [50:24] that Netanyahu was so exposed Trump was [50:27] able to force him into the agreement. It [50:29] wouldn't happen otherwise. So um you [50:32] know I think we have to be very [50:33] toughminded about this. Um you got to [50:35] stay focused on it. Keep trying. Be [50:37] creative. see where it goes. Because the [50:40] alternative is a forever war in a world [50:44] where a country where half the people [50:45] can't read or write can now launch [50:48] weapons of mass destruction against the [50:50] US Navy [50:52] >> and in the environment in which there's [50:54] this war and the social media images and [50:56] everything you pointed to obviously [50:57] that's been um terrible for Israel and [51:01] the United States um and and defenders [51:03] of Israel. Do you think though that what [51:06] we're seeing in the United States is [51:09] purely result of what Israel has been [51:12] doing or how much do you think that [51:14] there's also anti-semitism underlying [51:17] the amount of focus on Israel? um the [51:21] language about Apac. Um I don't know if [51:24] you've been surprised by the extent, you [51:26] know, to which on college campuses and [51:28] in the left um in particular, you know, [51:30] we've seen the issue become so dominant. [51:34] Um and and I'm wondering what other [51:36] factors you think might be at play at [51:38] that. [51:39] >> Fortunately, Hillary, I'm not avoiding [51:41] the just not my expertise, you know. I [51:43] mean, I'm a foreign policy guy and I [51:45] don't know enough about that, you know. [51:47] Um I'm not trying to dodge the question. [51:48] And I just I don't want to just bloate [51:51] about it. I don't know. I know it's a [51:52] terrible trend. And when I see a [51:54] terrible trend like that, I say do what [51:56] you can. Okay? And I know one thing for [51:59] sure. If you diffuse this conflict, you [52:03] take logs off the fire. [52:06] Uh there's some people who will never be [52:08] happy from the far left. There's some [52:11] people far right will look for [52:13] anti-semitism and excuses and [52:15] opportunities wherever they go. But [52:17] bringing down the heat and the volume um [52:20] can't but help um and that's all I I can [52:25] think of unfortunately to go. So I hope [52:30] this made sense. Great. [52:31] >> Absolutely [52:32] >> with you. Thanks to the 750 people who [52:35] would uh tolerated [52:38] me for an hour. Uh I really appreciate [52:41] it. Um I wish everybody a shinatva but I [52:45] got to go. Well, thank you so much for [52:48] your time. It's been uh fascinating [52:50] listening to the arc of history from 911 [52:53] until today. So, thank you for sharing [52:55] so much of your time and insight with us [52:58] and um for everyone who registered, [53:01] you'll be getting an email with a [53:03] recording of this. So, you'll be able to [53:05] see it again um and to share it. And we [53:08] hope you will continue to come back to [53:10] follow JTA for news and perspective on [53:13] what's happening in the global Jewish [53:14] community. And thank you once again uh [53:17] to Tom for your
