Transcript [00:00] Watch what happens when Islam's [00:02] sympathizers challenge Ayaan Hirsi Ali [00:05] on radical Islam. Take a look. [00:08] >> Can the war [snorts] on Islamic [00:10] fundamentalism be justified? I suspect [00:12] we probably have two no's. [00:14] >> Correct. [00:14] >> Am I right? And I think we have a strong [00:17] yes, and I'm something of a yes. So, but [00:21] I'm also the moderator, so I don't know [00:23] where that puts me. [00:24] Um [00:25] In any event, I thought that maybe what [00:27] we'd start doing is um start with the [00:30] with the negative, possibly. We don't [00:33] have prepared speeches, but if you just [00:35] want to lay out something and we'll get [00:37] started going this way. How about that? [00:41] >> So, from my perspective, um I am an [00:43] economist by training and someone who [00:46] studies defense and peace economics. And [00:49] as an economist, the focus of my [00:52] research is on issues related to things [00:55] like militarism. [00:57] But more broadly than that, economics as [00:59] a science is focused on what is [01:03] possible, [01:04] what is achievable, and then what are [01:06] the consequences of policies once they [01:09] are undertaken. [01:11] And I think that we've seen very clearly [01:14] over the last 20 years at this point, [01:17] what a war on fundamentalist or radical [01:21] Islam has brought us, [01:23] which is [01:24] the opposite of success. In fact, these [01:28] policies have been a breeding ground for [01:31] the very type of terrorist activities [01:33] that they purport to undermine. [01:38] And what's more than that, especially [01:40] too for people within this crowd, [01:43] is that when we look at the policies [01:45] undertaken with respect to, [01:49] again, [01:50] Islamic extremism, particularly abroad, [01:53] is that the tools and techniques that [01:55] are developed as a part of that policy [01:58] have not stayed abroad and, in fact, [02:00] have very, very much come to be used [02:03] extensively at home. Whether we're [02:05] talking about issues related to [02:07] surveillance, whether we're talking [02:08] about issues related to policing, of [02:10] course there's a lot of overlap there. [02:12] And so I think that we have a variety of [02:16] pieces of historical evidence that [02:17] frankly we we can look at and we can [02:19] answer this question um in my mind quite [02:22] clearly. [02:27] >> Please let me point out that there's [02:29] something with the sound. So I've heard [02:30] only like a third of what you said. [02:32] >> Yeah, it's a little difficult for us [02:33] over on this end to [02:34] >> Sorry. [02:35] >> not just to understand you conceptually, [02:37] but to understand you at all. Uh a [02:40] little bit of an echo. I don't know if [02:41] that can be fixed uh or not, but uh [02:45] All right. Well, Scott, if you'd like to [02:47] >> Uh [02:48] Well, I would say that uh defining the [02:51] war on Islamic extremism so broadly has [02:54] really always been uh [02:57] an attempt to deceive us and essentially [02:59] a bait and switch. From the night of [03:01] September 11th, George Bush, even though [03:04] he already knew who had attacked the [03:06] United States, he didn't declare war on [03:09] Al-Qaeda. [03:10] He declared war on terror. [03:12] Your presumed emotional reaction to acts [03:15] of terrorism by [03:17] anyone anywhere in the world. [03:19] And then they immediately conflated [03:20] Al-Qaeda with the Taliban [03:22] and Al-Qaeda with Saddam Hussein's [03:24] regime, even though Saddam Hussein was a [03:26] secularist probably an atheist who [03:29] worshipped only himself, shaved his chin [03:31] every morning and wore a beret like a [03:33] Frenchman. [03:34] And they said, "Oh, now that counts as [03:36] Islamic extremism, too." [03:38] And they based the lie, the the premise [03:41] of the whole war, was that history began [03:44] on September 11th when [03:46] radical or fundamentalist Islam turned [03:49] people into psychopaths who attacked our [03:51] innocent country that was just a [03:53] sleeping giant minding its own business. [03:55] When that's really just not true at all. [03:58] These guys were mercenaries who fought [04:00] for Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan's [04:01] governments in the late 70s and early [04:04] 1980s. [04:05] They were turned against the United [04:07] States by H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton's [04:09] policies in the Middle East. [04:12] And they were turned against us for [04:15] earthly political reasons. And even [04:17] though Bin Laden and Zawahiri and the [04:19] leaders of al-Qaeda were, you know, [04:21] self-professed pious fundamentalists [04:24] anyway, many of their followers have not [04:26] been. In fact, some of the 7 September [04:28] 11th hijackers spent time at the strip [04:31] clubs drinking and doing cocaine. And [04:34] we've seen in terrorist attacks ever [04:35] since September 11th, including in the [04:38] 2010s in the various attacks in France [04:42] and in Belgium, that many of these [04:44] attackers were barely acquainted with [04:46] Islam at all. The only thing Islam had [04:49] to do with their action was that it [04:51] formed the basis for solidarity between [04:55] the victims of American foreign policy [04:57] and the people who were then fighting to [05:00] avenge them. Really same thing here. [05:02] When America was attacked on September [05:04] 11th [05:05] in New York and Virginia, you had people [05:07] from far away Texas and California and [05:10] Colorado and Florida and Hawaii and [05:13] everywhere join the army. Christians, [05:16] Jews, and Muslims [05:18] joined the US army to go and fight [05:20] against the enemy that had attacked [05:22] their country. [05:24] And the big lie was that that was the [05:25] first day in history when in fact our [05:27] government had gotten us into this mess [05:29] in the first place. And then they [05:30] defined their terms so broadly as to [05:34] well, as you all know, wage war in 14 [05:37] nations since then, including four or [05:40] five major regime change operations. [05:43] And in fact, [05:44] in Libya, Syria, and the war in Yemen, [05:47] our government has outright allied [05:49] itself with al-Qaeda forces on the [05:51] ground there against enemies that they [05:54] hate more, like Muammar Gaddafi, Bashar [05:56] al-Assad, and the Houthi regime that has [05:59] taken control in uh Sana'a. So, I'll [06:02] stop there for now, but that's my first [06:04] answer. Thank you. [06:08] [applause] [06:12] >> Okay, so I see it's differently. Um um [06:16] the reason why I do that is because I [06:19] look at two things. Number one, and I [06:22] would have framed [06:23] the panel titled differently, is [06:27] is this [06:28] a civilizational conflict? Is there such [06:31] a thing as Western civilization and an [06:34] Islamic civilization and what's their [06:36] relationship? [06:38] And if that relationship is one of [06:40] conflicts, [06:42] collaboration, [06:43] or competition. [06:46] It's all of that, obviously, [06:49] because [06:50] civilizations compete, they're in [06:52] conflicts, they collaborate, and I think [06:55] when it comes to Western civilization [06:57] and the Islamic civilization, we're [06:58] seeing all of these three things all at [07:01] the same time. [07:02] I can see you doing this, so I'll try [07:04] and speak up. [07:06] So, civilizational conflict. [07:10] That's one part. The second part is what [07:15] is America's position in the world? [07:19] Is America just any other country [07:22] observing from a distance whatever it is [07:25] that Western civilization is getting [07:27] into, whatever Islamic civilization is [07:30] getting into? [07:32] And and that's just a different way of [07:33] looking at it. [07:36] The way I look at it is, yes, [07:39] we are having a civilizational conflicts [07:43] that from 9/11 2001 [07:48] uh [07:49] people like me who [07:51] you know, I was born and raised a [07:53] Muslim, but I made my way into the West. [07:57] People like [07:58] me were being put on the spot [08:02] by the young men who committed the [08:05] attack. And basically, the question they [08:07] were asking is [08:09] whose side are you on in this enormous [08:14] bigger than yourself civilizational [08:16] conflict? Are you with us or are you [08:19] against them? So, there are [08:21] Muslims, millions of them, who had to [08:24] figure out which side do I belong. But [08:27] also, millions of Americans and other [08:29] Westerners. [08:33] That's how I think the attackers of 9/11 [08:36] 2001 framed it. [08:39] There is a moral set of values [08:43] that the West stands for, [08:46] a moral set of values that political [08:49] Islamists stand for, those who attacked [08:51] America, and we were being given the [08:53] choice, which side are you on? [08:56] And then, I think the next question is, [08:58] what is then America's position? America [09:02] defeated the Soviet Union. It was the [09:04] remaining superpower. [09:06] So, what was America going to do? Was it [09:09] going to take take the lead [09:11] in this civilizational conflict? Or [09:15] maybe it wasn't, or maybe it didn't [09:17] understand. [09:18] So, what I concede to both of you is [09:21] that from 9/11 [09:24] maybe probably from 1989 when the [09:27] contours of this conflict was emerging [09:30] America made some very bad mistakes. [09:35] They didn't understand. The people who [09:36] were in the leadership positions didn't [09:39] understand or perhaps didn't conceive of [09:41] it as a civilizational conflict. And so [09:44] there are a set of policy decisions that [09:47] the United States of America made that [09:50] are in fact [09:52] wrong and you both are justified in [09:56] saying [09:57] this is just terrible. The way this [09:59] whole thing was led was awful and I [10:02] wholeheartedly agree with that. But it [10:05] doesn't take us out of that conundrum. [10:07] It doesn't take us out of that conflict. [10:11] And the conflict is one of values and [10:14] norms and laws and philosophies and that [10:18] then seeps into the way we collaborate, [10:22] we trade, we have diplomatic ties with, [10:27] or we have a conflict with [10:30] the Islamic or the Muslim [10:32] civilization and particularly the way [10:34] that we compete. [10:36] So do we A recognize that [10:40] we are actually facing [10:43] a civilizational conflict and if your [10:45] position is yes, then what's America's [10:48] position in that? [10:51] If it's no, I think we're going to get [10:52] into a different [10:54] kind of discussion. [10:57] Um [10:58] and how can we come we come out assuming [11:01] that yes, it's a civilizational [11:03] conflict, how can we emerge out of this [11:06] triumphant? [11:08] >> She is spot on almost always but also in [11:11] this clip. Yes, we can eliminate radical [11:15] Islam. We can Islamism and [11:18] Islamist organizations. [11:20] You know, with actually going kinetic [11:23] warfare, with actually going hot, you [11:25] know, and and going in strong and [11:28] actually killing them, right? Killing [11:30] Islamists is good. [11:32] Killing Jihadists, terrorists across the [11:36] world is a good thing. It's a net [11:38] benefit for our society. And kudos to [11:41] Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Go check out her book [11:43] Infidel in which she, you know, had to [11:46] endure basically living in a Sharia law [11:49] household in Saudi Arabia. [11:51] She is somebody who has defended and has [11:54] defended and is defending the West for a [11:57] very long time. Thank you for watching [11:59] and I'll see you [12:01] in the next one. [12:03] [music] [12:09] >> They voted in Hamas knowing what Hamas [12:11] are. [12:12] >> Hamas gave no warning before they [12:13] slaughtered 1,300 women and children. [12:16] >> October 7th has happened. [12:22] [music] [12:28] >> Okay. [12:28] >> Kill the Jews. [12:30] >> Killing Jews would Israel. [12:32] >> For all of these up there?
