Transcript [00:00] My friend Cam Higgby absolutely [00:02] annihilated Sneo and the Orthodox Muslim [00:05] on child marriage in Islam. [00:08] Take a look. [00:09] >> So, just to start, I want to ask some [00:10] establishing questions, Liiano. Um, [00:13] so that I don't accidentally straw men [00:14] you. Uh, would you say that [00:16] intercourse/intimate touching with [00:18] prepubescent girls is always wrong [00:19] regardless of the circumstance? [00:22] >> Yeah. So, I would agree with the [00:24] biblical stance on this that [00:28] yes or no. All I need is yes. I I'm [00:30] going to get into my argument. I just [00:31] want to make sure I don't straw [00:32] anything. [00:32] >> What are we doing already, bro? [00:33] >> Well, hold up. I just need a yes or no. [00:35] I'm just asking establishing questions. [00:36] So, you think that [00:37] >> Okay, then I'm not answering your yes or [00:38] nos. You can continue. If you're not [00:40] going to let me give a full answer, then [00:41] you I'm not going to answer you. [00:42] >> Well, it's my 60 seconds. Only reason [00:44] you can establish further in your time. [00:46] >> Answer yes or no in your 60 seconds. [00:48] >> You can't answer yes or no and whether [00:49] it's always wrong to touch previous. [00:50] >> I can't answer yes or no without further [00:52] clarific clarification. So, you can [00:54] continue. [00:55] >> I just didn't want to burn my 60 my 60 [00:57] seconds here. So Quran 39 uh 33:49 [01:00] clearly establish your 60C [01:02] now. Go ahead. [01:03] >> Thanks Nico. So Quran 33:49 [01:06] clearly establishes that uh there is no [01:08] ida there is no divorce waiting period [01:10] for uh a girl whose husband has not [01:12] intimately touched her. Quran 654 [01:15] very clearly establishes that for women [01:17] in menopause and women who have not yet [01:18] hit puberty, there is a waiting period [01:20] of 3 months. They couldn't possibly have [01:21] a waiting period for the Quran's own [01:23] standards had they not been touched by [01:25] their husband. And thus the Quran [01:26] condones having intercourse, marrying [01:29] and divorcing children. We can [01:30] corroborate this with Sahabakar 5134, [01:33] Sahabakari 5133, Senate On 3378 [01:37] in addition to Sahim Muslim 1222D [01:40] where they all talk about Aisha marrying [01:42] the prophet Muhammad at the age of uh 6 [01:44] years old and then he consummates the [01:46] marriage meaning he finalized it through [01:47] intercourse at the age of nine. [01:49] My position is that nine-year-olds [01:50] cannot be adults. It's physically [01:51] impossible. Um I guess you're not [01:53] answering any questions. The rest of the [01:54] questions to be clear were going to be [01:55] would you say that it's always rape or [01:57] to have intercourse or intimate touching [01:58] with previous individuals and would you [02:00] say that in order to make a person do an [02:02] action consent is required and do you [02:04] think silence means consent? [02:05] >> Thanks Nico. [02:06] >> All right I'll give uh 60 seconds to [02:08] Liiano and then 60 seconds we can [02:11] get right free right now. [02:13] >> Okay Cam so you already [02:16] you already fumbled because you made a [02:17] nonsequitter right off the bat when you [02:19] quoted 654. [02:21] You said that if a a girl [02:24] has an EDA period, that means she had [02:26] intercourse before her menarchy. Is that [02:29] correct? [02:30] >> Yes. Well, no, it means that she has had [02:32] intercourse, but we're talking about [02:33] girls before menarch. Yeah, [02:35] >> I I understand. But in order for her to [02:37] have herd, then that necessity, she must [02:39] have had intercourse with the correct, [02:40] right? She was married. [02:41] >> This is true. Yes. [02:42] >> Okay, cool. And you said therefore child [02:44] marriage because she hasn't reached [02:46] manarchy yet, right? [02:48] >> Well, child marriage, divorce, and [02:49] intercourse. Yeah. Can I get a clear [02:51] answer? Therefore, she didn't reach [02:54] Therefore, it's child marriage because [02:56] she didn't reach menarchy, right? [02:58] >> Well, it's disgusting girls that haven't [03:00] reached menarchy. Yeah. [03:02] >> Okay. So, is it child marriage because [03:05] she hasn't reached menarchy is my [03:07] question. [03:07] >> Yes, definitely. Yeah. [03:09] >> Beautiful. So, your claim here, you just [03:12] made an affirmative claim that a girl [03:14] who hasn't menstrated is a child [03:18] according to what standard is that? The [03:20] majority of people who don't menstrate [03:21] that are female are children. Yeah, [03:22] there are some medical exceptions. Yeah. [03:24] >> Can you can you quote anybody who said [03:26] that a girl who hasn't menstrated but [03:28] has other signs of pubesence is [03:30] prepubescent? [03:31] >> Yeah, I'll just cite your own scholars. [03:32] So like I imam al-Katubi who is Maliki [03:35] school. You're Maliki. Yeah. He he [03:37] confirms that 654 is saying exactly what [03:39] I say. [03:39] >> That's not what I asked Cam. Cam the [03:41] question was very simple. You made a [03:43] scientific and a biological claim. Cam. [03:45] >> Yeah. You said that a girl who hasn't [03:48] had menarchy, and for those who don't [03:50] know what menarchy is, it's the first [03:51] menstrual cycle that a female goes [03:53] through. [03:54] >> So, you made the positive claim that a [03:57] girl who hasn't reached manarchy [04:00] is a child and she's prepubescent. [04:03] What's the argument for that? [04:04] >> Well, I think that girls who haven't yet [04:05] reached puberty are children. Do you [04:07] disagree? [04:08] >> Didn't ask what you what you think, Cam. [04:10] You made an affirmative plan. [04:12] >> Do you disagree? [04:12] >> You made No, you're burden shifting now. [04:14] Good try. You made an affirmative claim. [04:17] You said that he's burden shifting. So [04:20] again, you just made a claim. You said a [04:22] girl who has not reached menarchy is [04:26] prepubescent. What's the argument for [04:28] that? [04:28] >> Is this the argument you're going to [04:29] hang your hat on is that prepubescent [04:30] girls aren't children? [04:31] >> I didn't make an argument. I'm asking [04:32] for evidence affirmative. Are you going [04:35] to answer the question? [04:36] >> I would I would just like appeal to the [04:37] definition of a child. [04:40] >> And what would that be? A girl who [04:42] hasn't reached monarchy. [04:43] >> Sure. a young human being between birth [04:45] and puberty or a son of a daughter of [04:47] any age. [04:49] >> Right. That's the that's question began. [04:51] Now, are you saying that manarchy is [04:54] puberty? That there's an equivalence [04:56] relation? [04:57] >> Uh well, I mean the definition of child [04:58] is literally a young human being between [05:00] the age of [05:00] >> you the definition I'm fine with the [05:02] definition of child. That's fine. But [05:05] your claim was, your claim was per the [05:07] Quran, [05:08] a girl who has not reached manarchy cuz [05:11] that's what:654 is saying, if she hasn't [05:14] yet menrated then herda...period is so [05:16] on and so forth, right? You said that, [05:19] therefore that means child marriage, and [05:21] you just define child marriage to be a [05:23] girl that's prepub a a girl that's [05:24] prepubescent. You just shot yourself in [05:26] the foot. I didn't, because you equated [05:29] pub let me talk because you equated [05:31] pubesence with menarchy. So now, stop [05:34] running away and demonstrate how [05:37] manarchy just is pubesence. Can you [05:39] demonstrate the equivalence relation [05:41] please? [05:41] >> The Oxford definition is a young human [05:43] being between the age of birth and [05:44] puberty. So that would be that would be [05:46] my [05:46] but also but but by the way this is an [05:49] internal snee [05:54] puberty. I agree with that definition. [05:57] So now are you going to give the [05:59] evidence cuz you made an affirmative. [06:00] >> I concede your definition. I want to [06:02] operate off your definition anyway. [06:04] I'm going to repeat my question one more [06:05] time and if you don't answer, I'm just [06:07] going to I'm just going to move on cuz [06:08] you [06:09] >> I didn't I actually didn't say the word [06:10] manarchy. I never said that. You're [06:12] lying. [06:12] >> You You agreed to me when I asked you [06:14] about monarchy. And if a girl if the [06:17] Quran teaches that a girl can be married [06:20] before menarchy, you said yes, that's [06:21] child marriage, did you not? [06:23] >> Well, before her first menstrual cycle. [06:24] Yeah. Yeah. So, [06:26] >> okay. So, then if a girl hasn't reached [06:27] menarchy and she gets married and [06:29] hasn't, of course, has child marriage, [06:30] right? [06:31] >> Yeah. So, can you just tell me what the [06:32] standard is? Like, this is an internal [06:33] critique. Just tell me what your [06:34] standard is. [06:35] >> Answer the qu. He's backtracking now. [06:37] I'm stand [06:38] I'm willing to operate under any [06:40] standard you provide. What's the [06:41] standard? [06:42] >> At girl [06:43] claim, Camid [06:45] holding you to your claim. That's all [06:47] I'm doing. Everybody saw you. There's [06:49] like 5,000 people watching or more. [06:51] >> Cam said that the Quran 654 [06:55] teaches that a girl before manarchy can [06:57] be married and can have consummation. He [07:00] said that means that's child marriage. [07:02] Now he can't support his claim because I [07:05] asked him [07:07] what is the substantiation that manarchy [07:10] just is pubescent. [07:12] >> Yeah. So I gave you the definition but [07:13] I'll just appeal to your own scholars. [07:14] Are you maliki? Is that [07:16] >> the definition doesn't answer the [07:17] question. [07:18] >> Are you maliki? Are you maliki? [07:20] >> I'm madiki but that doesn't help you. [07:22] Can you answer my question? [07:22] >> No it does. I'm just going to read your [07:23] scholars the juristprudence like it's [07:25] going to be [07:25] >> read them. They're not going to say that [07:27] manarchy is not pubescent. Go ahead. [07:28] >> Yeah. So, so let's say like [07:30] uh [07:31] Abu Bakr al-Arabi says he's Maliki [07:34] school or Maliki. He says [07:36] um [07:37] >> he lived between uh 1076 [07:40] and 1148. [07:41] What's your point? What's that have to [07:42] do with [07:44] so he's directly issuing commentary on [07:46] 654 and he says meaning that's fine. [07:48] Just get to it. [07:49] >> Meaning the young girl and her waiting [07:51] period is also months. [07:53] >> So he's talking about the waiting [07:54] period. He confirms. So then you can go [07:57] you can also go to Iben Rishid. He [07:59] confirms that we're talking about creepy [08:00] best agree on that. [08:02] >> Yeah. So so [08:03] yeah. Yeah. So can I can I finish Sneo? [08:05] Do I get a chance to make an argument or [08:06] is this guy just going to talk the whole [08:07] time? [08:07] >> Sure. Sure. Go ahead. Just read but you [08:10] go ahead. So so I imam alazi [08:12] he's Maliki. He says u he [08:17] he cites 654 and he says his he agrees [08:19] that there is no um he justifies the [08:22] validity of a marriage contract before [08:23] puberty. specifically citing 654. [08:26] He says, "Okay, [08:27] >> no, no, no, no. [08:29] Hold on one second. Hold on. I'm gonna [08:30] just let me interject. Cam, I'm gonna [08:32] say I want you to be able to read [08:34] without interruptions, but after this, [08:35] can we keep it as a conversation?" [08:38] >> Do I not get to site Prudence? Do I not [08:40] get to site [08:41] on the quote he read? He just lied. [08:43] Let's let him Let's let him finish. [08:45] >> I can send it to you. It's fine. [08:46] >> Okay. How many How many quotes are you [08:47] going to read? [08:48] >> I'll read as many as you want me to. [08:49] This This one specifically from from [08:51] Alarazzi. He literally says that it's [08:54] The marriage contract is valid before [08:56] puberty. He says before puberty. So [08:59] um he's talking about 654. [09:01] He says he cites 654. He says his saying [09:04] and those who have not menrated. So he [09:05] established that among our women who [09:07] have not menrated this indicates the [09:09] validity of the marriage contract before [09:10] her puberty. This is your school of [09:13] juristprudence and this is a scholar [09:14] from your school of juristprudence. [09:16] That's agreeing with me. In fact they [09:18] all agree with me. [09:20] Cite me cite me one scholar that [09:21] disagrees with my position. When the [09:23] scholars [09:24] refer to pubesence, [snorts] okay, they [09:28] could either mean [09:30] pubesence as in [09:32] all the factors which are taken into [09:34] consideration for [09:36] a girl to be marriageable or pubesence, [09:39] there's an equivocation as in [09:42] which means having your first menstrual [09:45] cycle. [09:45] >> Yeah, this is not true. [09:46] >> A girl, a girl, [09:48] >> it uses the word separately in the text. [09:50] So, you don't have the text in front of [09:51] you. I don't even know what words are [09:52] used. [09:52] >> Can I can I finish? [09:53] >> Do you have Imm Al-Marazzi's book in [09:54] front of you? Volume 2, page 144. Do you [09:56] have in front of you? Because you have [09:57] no idea what you're talking about. [09:58] You're literally lying. [09:58] >> I want to hear your butt. You're saying, [10:00] "Hold on. Let's [10:00] >> He's lying. He's He's just lying. He [10:02] doesn't have the book in front of me. [10:03] >> We'll see. We'll see. We'll [10:05] >> I want to hear your distinction between [10:06] the two words. Let's let Li [10:11] from my question. [10:11] >> This guy's just going to talk the whole [10:12] time. I'm never going to get an [10:13] argument. [10:14] >> There have been a lot of there there [10:15] have been some interruptions. Lanna, [10:16] let's try to let him speak as well." [10:19] >> I Okay. Can I finish? Yes, you can. [10:21] >> Okay. Okay, cool. So, I just told him [10:24] he's [snorts] equivocating on [10:25] pubescence. [10:26] He's making a biological point. Okay. [10:29] Now, he's begging the question. He [10:31] doesn't know how to argue. Okay. The [10:33] biological point that he made was [10:36] menarchy [10:37] just is [10:38] pubesence. [10:40] Do you agree with that, Cam, or no? [10:42] >> Uh, menarchy can be a sign of pubesence. [10:44] I'm not arguing that it's the only sign [10:46] of [10:46] >> ask if it's a sign. [10:48] >> If you've had menarchy, you've hit [10:49] puberty. Yes. [10:52] >> Okay. So, manarchy is [10:54] a necessary factor of pubesence. [10:57] >> I didn't say that. I said the opposite. [10:58] You're just straw manning me. [11:00] >> Okay. Is manarchy s is manarchy [11:03] >> sufficient pubes. Or can a girl good. Or [11:07] can a girl be pubescent without [11:09] manarchy? [11:09] >> I already said she can be pupscent [11:11] without manarchy, [11:12] >> but it is sufficient. She has manarchy. [11:14] She's pubescent. [11:15] >> It's over. It's over. No, it's not. Cam, [11:18] you just said a girl can't be pubin [11:21] without menarchy, right? [11:22] >> What? What do you think the sign that [11:23] they use to determine Oh. Oh, no. I [11:25] don't [11:26] I don't get the rebuttal. I don't get [11:27] the rebuttal. This clown just screams [11:29] into the microphone. Just shut up. Pipe [11:31] down, big dog. Chill out. [11:34] You're like a [Â __Â ] spaz, [11:36] >> bro. You're a tweaker, dude. Chill out. [11:38] Let me respond. [11:39] >> Tweaker. I'm [11:42] Holy smokes. Dude, you're literally [11:44] tweaking out. Let me respond, dude. This [11:46] isn't a debate. This is you teaching a [11:47] lesson. This is you doing a lecture. [11:50] Bro, [11:50] >> can you repeat my question? [11:51] >> The question was and I wanted I wanted [11:53] less interruptions, please. [11:54] >> Yes. [11:54] >> He asked you, did you say that menarchy [11:57] can happen? [11:58] >> No. Pubesence can happen before. [12:00] >> I've held that since the very beginning. [12:02] But the way that you determine whether [12:04] or not a girl has reached puberty in the [12:06] sixth century is you'd see if she's [12:08] reached menarchy. [12:09] >> That went off the rails. And I think Cam [12:11] Higgby did a great job of exposing the [12:13] argument and and laying out the facts of [12:15] the matter. And the fact of the matter [12:17] is it does allow and condone and exist [12:20] within Islam. And their number one [12:22] prophet participated in it. And Cam [12:25] Higgby laid that out and, you know, had [12:28] to deal with the, you know, pathetic [12:30] mockery and laughing and the the wild [12:33] debate tactics of these people like the [12:35] Orthodox Muslim like Muhammad Hijab who [12:38] just tried to deflect, evade, [12:41] focus about, you know, to talk down to [12:43] them, bully them, so to speak, in a very [12:45] childish manner. Uh, but I think Cam did [12:48] a great job here. Thank you for watching [12:49] and I'll see you in the next one. [12:53] [music] [12:58] They voted in Hamz knowing what Hamas [13:00] are. Hamas gave no warning before they [13:02] slaughtered 1,300 [13:04] women and children. [13:05] >> October 7th has happened. [13:13] [music] [13:17] >> Okay. [13:19] killing Jew with Israel.
