Transcript [00:00] [music] [00:02] life audio [00:04] >> on today's episode of Timeless Wisdom. [00:07] >> I recently caught my wife cheating on me [00:10] with another man. [00:12] >> And this is when I say recent, this is [00:15] probably only four days ago. [00:18] >> And our problems have spawned from the [00:21] topic you were talking about right now. [00:23] I I've always been religious growing up [00:26] and but when we dated, we weren't [00:28] religious. Uh I was semi-religious, I [00:31] guess you would say. And then when we [00:32] got married, the the older I got. We [00:34] we've been married for two and a half [00:36] years. The older I got, the more [00:39] religious I got because I guess maybe [00:41] the wiser I got and the more I felt that [00:44] religion became more important to me as [00:45] we went on. And uh the reason I've hurt [00:49] her and I guess pushed her away is I [00:52] wanted her to be involved with this [00:53] religion. [00:54] >> Well, what is your religion? [00:56] >> I I'm a Christian. I I attend a church [00:58] of Christ. [00:59] >> Mhm. [01:00] >> And u [01:01] >> So when you married, neither of you was [01:03] particularly religious. [01:05] >> Not necessarily. No. I was on the [01:07] inside, but I didn't outwardly. [01:08] >> Okay. But to from her perspective, the [01:11] two of you were similar religiously. [01:14] >> Uh yes. That's coming up on Timeless [01:17] Wisdom with Dennis Prager. [01:19] >> Precious metals dealers come and go. [01:21] This is Nick Rovich, president of Afed [01:24] Coin and Bullion. We've stood the test [01:25] of time since 1983. With the flurry of [01:27] coin and bullion dealers coming and [01:29] going, how do you know who to trust and [01:31] what to buy? At Afed Coin and Bullion, [01:33] we value educated consumers. We want to [01:36] alert you to good bullion buys in the [01:38] market and help you steer clear of the [01:40] tricks and bad deals. Call Afed Coin and [01:42] Bullion for a free coin performance [01:44] review. 800221-7694 [01:48] or americananfederal.com. [01:50] >> Welcome to [music] Timeless Wisdom with [01:52] Dennis Prager. Here thousands of hours [01:55] of Dennis's lectures, courses, and [01:57] classic radio programs. And to purchase [01:59] Dennis [music] Prager's rational Bibles, [02:01] go to dennisprager.com. [02:05] >> I am oldfashioned. I like two sexes. [02:07] [music] [02:07] To add another thing, all of a sudden, I [02:09] don't like being married to what is [02:10] known as a new woman. I want a wife, not [02:12] a competitor. Competitor. competitor. [02:15] >> Talk about a bit this crying in [music] [02:17] the morning thing. This depression, you [02:18] know, let's get that fixed. [02:19] >> That's what men think, isn't it? [02:21] >> What? [02:22] >> Unless you've got the answer. Unless you [02:23] can say, "Oh, I know this bloke in the [02:25] year six road could fix that." [music] [02:27] Then there's no point bothering. [02:29] >> How do you write women so well? [02:31] >> I think of a man and I take away reason [02:35] and accountability. [02:36] >> I love him. I love him. And I don't care [02:39] [music] what you think. I love him for [02:40] the for the man he wants to be. And I [02:44] love him for the man that he almost is. [02:47] What do people have rouse [music] about [02:48] him? [02:49] >> Uh, money, sex, [02:52] sex, money. He wants, [music] she [02:54] doesn't want. [02:55] >> She wants, he doesn't want. [02:57] >> Women have always been a big problem to [03:00] me. Dr. Fman, [03:04] [music] are you listening, doctor? [03:05] >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Go on. Go on. [03:08] [music] [03:10] >> All righty, everybody. Welcome to the [03:11] male female hour. Every [music] [03:14] Wednesday at this time we have an hour [03:16] on men and women. I call it male female. [03:19] I've explained why rather than man, but [03:21] [music] that's not what we're going to [03:22] enter now. In light of the fact that we [03:26] are entering Christmas and Hanukkah time [03:28] [music] [03:30] and uh it it raises a question for those [03:34] of you married that I would like to have [03:38] your input with regard to. I think it [03:41] might help others and maybe I can help [03:43] some of you don't know [03:47] what do couples do who have religious [03:50] differences and I don't mean two [03:52] different religions that's one of the [03:54] religious differences obviously but what [03:57] do you do I think even more common than [04:00] being in different religions is one [04:02] being religious and one not [04:06] how if you have worked this out in your [04:10] marriage, [04:12] tell us how. If you haven't, if it's if [04:15] it's been injurious to your marriage, I [04:17] want to hear from you as well. [04:20] I don't know if there is a generalizable [04:22] rule. It would seem to me that the [04:25] generalizable rule is that the more you [04:27] share either irreligiously or [04:30] religiously that an atheist might do [04:33] better with an atheist and that a a [04:35] religious person will do better with a [04:37] religious person of the of the same [04:40] religion. I mean it would seem because [04:42] of my general rule, not just mine but [04:45] the I think common sense general rule [04:46] that the more a couple share the better [04:49] it is for them. [04:52] On the other hand, I have no doubt [04:54] because I have met such couples that [04:56] some people have worked out look there [04:58] are Republicans and Democrats who who [05:00] were married. And don't don't I'm not [05:02] saying that as a joke. Uh the [05:05] differences between between liberals and [05:07] conservatives are more profound often [05:09] than religious differences as it [05:12] happens. And and somehow those people of [05:15] Is it you just respect the other? What [05:18] have you done if you have this and or [05:20] has it been very hard on your marriage? [05:24] But if this takes place in your [05:26] marriage, I want to hear from you at 18 [05:28] Prager 7776 [05:31] 18 P R A G- R776 which is 877-243LE76 [05:37] 877-243776. [05:40] Now again remember I'm not just talking [05:42] about two different religions. So I'm [05:44] talking about the more common one of one [05:46] is more religious than the other. It [05:48] used to be that the common stereotype to [05:52] be redundant that's what stereotypes are [05:55] common but uh and was accurate [05:59] stereotypes after all I argue most [06:01] stereotypes not all but most are [06:03] accurate. [06:04] It's just that not everybody falls into [06:06] it. That's the danger of a stereotype is [06:09] to make it universal, but it's usually [06:11] true in in most cases. And the usual one [06:15] in the past was that if there was a [06:18] religious difference, the woman was more [06:20] likely to be the more religious of the [06:23] two. I don't think that that's the case [06:27] now. I'm I don't know. I don't know. The [06:30] the scenario presented was that she [06:34] dragged him to church, not vice versa, [06:39] where the guy was the was the major [06:41] religious figure in the family and, you [06:44] know, just uh nudged his wife constantly [06:47] to come on honey, will you? Let's go. We [06:48] got to go to church. [06:52] So, what does a marriage do? And maybe [06:54] we could be of some help. If nothing if [06:57] we do nothing else, maybe we'll just [06:59] offer you the consolation that you're [07:01] not alone. If you have this problem, [07:03] [laughter] [07:05] I I I hope we could do more than that. [07:07] But at least uh just know in any event, [07:09] whatever your problems are, you're not [07:10] alone. [07:12] Which by the way is is I guess it's not [07:14] shot in Freuda. It's not a joy at others [07:17] misery. That that's an ugly trait. But [07:20] there is something understandable to [07:22] know that everybody has their own [07:24] package of problems, bundle of problems [07:28] is is yes, it it it can have a health [07:31] healthfully comforting [07:34] degree of solace for a human being. But [07:37] uh let's find out again if your marriage [07:40] is one of differences. either one is [07:44] more religious than the other or even a [07:46] believer uh uh in God and an atheist or [07:49] different religions if you've worked it [07:52] out or it's been [07:54] uh tension inducing. I want to hear from [07:57] you in in either case. [08:00] All right. And uh let's go to some of [08:03] your calls [08:05] and let's go begin with Jeff in Phoenix, [08:08] Arizona. Jeff, Dennis Prager, the male [08:11] female hour. Hi. Good morning, Dennis. [08:13] >> Hi. [08:15] >> Uh my uh I think one of the things that [08:17] attracted me to my wife 23 years ago or [08:21] 24 25 years ago when we were dating was [08:25] that I was going to be a missionary [08:26] pilot and that um I had a strong sense [08:30] of wanting to know God and who he was. [08:33] And um through the years I uh came to [08:38] the belief that God's not going to [08:41] respond. So I'm not going to keep [08:43] struggling the rest of my life. And she [08:46] kept going to a Christian church with [08:48] her our three children as as we went [08:52] along. So I think that one of the final [08:54] answers for me is that we continually [08:58] respect each other. I've allowed um and [09:02] encourage my children to go to church. [09:06] Um the belief that [09:07] >> now wait you said they're her children. [09:10] >> Our children. [09:11] >> Oh I know. But at one point you said her [09:14] children. So Oh that's okay. So they're [09:16] your children together. [09:18] >> Absolutely. [09:18] >> All right. So you you became a what? An [09:22] agnostic, an atheist. What would you [09:23] call yourself? [09:24] >> I would call myself uh Yes. Any of any [09:28] of I don't care. Yes. Up to all those. [09:30] All right. I care I care about it. [09:33] >> It's important to me, but I I just think [09:36] that I don't know. I don't know. That's [09:37] the main thing is [09:39] >> Well, nobody knows. People either [09:42] believe or don't believe. And I'm not [09:44] giving you a hard time, but I I think [09:46] the fact that you don't know for certain [09:48] doesn't mean you're not a believer. I [09:51] don't [09:51] >> Yeah, I'm not a I'm not a believer. [09:53] >> Okay, fair enough. [09:54] >> In the in the Christian faith that [09:56] >> All right. Are you a believer in in God [09:58] generically? [09:59] >> You know, I've come over time, I've come [10:01] to think that with creation and so the [10:04] answer ultimate answer for me is [10:07] >> so you are you are what I call a [10:10] monotheist who is not in any religion [10:14] but who sees the good of religion. [10:17] >> Yes. I I know a lot of people like you [10:20] and and so therefore you encourage your [10:23] wife though you don't share her [10:26] Christianity or at least her Christian [10:27] beliefs you encourage her and the [10:30] children to live it. Do the children [10:33] ever ask why doesn't daddy come to [10:35] church? Well, my oldest is now 20. And [10:38] so the struggle has re re uh asserted [10:42] itself in that, you know, they they have [10:46] they have more questions now than ever. [10:48] And so, you know, we've had to approach [10:50] each other and and I had to say to my [10:52] wife, I I want to honor, you know, I [10:55] want to be honest with them now. I want [10:56] to tell them what I think. [10:58] >> Well, well, apparently you were honest [11:00] with them earlier because you you didn't [11:03] uh act religious. Yeah, that's true. [11:06] However, um when you say didn't act [11:08] religious, some of my friends say, [11:10] "Well, look, we still think you're a [11:12] Christian because that's the way you [11:13] act." Well, I didn't throw away the baby [11:15] with the B. [11:16] >> No, no, no. Act morally or act ritually. [11:18] Did you go to church? You say you didn't [11:20] go. So, you were a moral monotheist. [11:23] >> Correct. [11:24] >> Okay. So, your kids knew that you did [11:26] not do anything specifically Christian. [11:28] >> They came to know that. Correct. Well, [11:30] they [11:31] >> and that became and that became somewhat [11:33] of a struggle where my wife didn't want [11:35] me to. [11:36] >> Why wouldn't you go to church with them? [11:38] >> Well, I I did, but when I wasn't paying [11:40] attention and my wife finally said, [11:42] "Okay, you don't have to go anymore." I [11:44] I don't. And when she asked me to go at [11:46] special occasions, I go and participate [11:49] in in the full ritual. [11:51] >> Right. So, you All right. The sum total [11:54] before I let you go is that you worked [11:56] it out with your wife. [11:57] >> Yes. because you deeply respected her [12:00] religiosity. I thank you very much. I [12:02] appreciate the call. [12:04] This is a real issue for c for for more [12:07] than a few couples either over time or [12:10] from the beginning of the marriage from [12:12] in fact before the marriage. One is a [12:14] believer and one is not a believer uh in [12:17] any given religion. [12:20] And uh and and [music] there the the [12:23] non-believer is deeply respectful [12:26] and uh the believer just makes peace [12:29] with the fact that look, I'm going to be [12:31] doing the religious part pretty much on [12:33] my own, but my husband or wife loves me [12:36] and respects that about me. Comments on [12:38] that when we come back [music] on the [12:40] male female hour. [12:41] >> This episode of Timeless Wisdom will [12:43] continue right after this. [12:47] Who answers America's call for more [12:49] energy? [music] [12:50] Our people do. [12:52] They've helped boost Chevron's US energy [12:55] production by nearly 60% [music] [12:56] in the past 3 years, helping fuel [12:59] national energy security [music] and [13:02] drives down the open roads that make [13:04] America. [13:06] Learn more about [music] what our people [13:07] do at chevron.com/amea. [13:13] >> [music] [13:16] >> Now back to more of Dennis [music] [13:18] Prager's timeless wisdom. Every line has [13:21] its own story [music] [13:24] as every couple has its own story of [13:27] course. I'm Dennis Prager. This is the [13:28] male female hour and in light of the [13:31] season [music] we're in. [13:33] One of those uh rare years of Christmas [13:35] and Hanukkah in fact coinciding. [music] [13:39] So this uh this is very applicable to a [13:42] lot of homes and a lot of listeners. And [13:45] the question is if your home has a uh as [13:48] a husband and wife of either different [13:52] religions or more likely one [13:56] less religious or irreligious and one [13:58] religious. Have you worked it out or [14:02] have you not worked it out? [14:04] and hearing from people. The last caller [14:07] I suspect represents millions of homes [14:09] in fact where one spouse is in fact a [14:12] believer in the religion in that case [14:15] Christianity and the other one respects [14:18] that that spouse's religiosity [14:21] indeed sees value in it but personally [14:24] doesn't do it. [14:27] Now, by the way, the question arises as [14:30] it does in his case. If you see the [14:33] value [14:35] in your [14:38] kids having a religion [14:41] and you respect and see the value in it [14:44] for your, in this case, your wife, why [14:48] wouldn't you? He was on so long I didn't [14:50] get a chance to even ask him all the [14:52] questions that I could have. But why [14:55] wouldn't you go to church with them? [14:58] I'm not saying he never did, but but [15:00] just for those of you who don't see, it [15:03] enters a problem [15:05] caused by the age of stupidity that the [15:07] baby boomers usher ushered in in the 60s [15:10] and 70s. The false notion of hypocrisy [15:14] that it's hypocritical for a person to [15:17] go to church if they don't believe in [15:19] that religion. [15:22] Uh uh why though [15:26] is it hypocritical for you to go to your [15:28] child's concert if you can't stand [15:30] classical music? [15:33] Why isn't that hypocritical? [15:35] Nobody would say that. Right? [15:39] Your your child takes piano lessons and [15:42] is going to give a Mozart recital, [15:44] right? You can't even pronounce Mozart. [15:47] You think it's Mosart. [15:49] Uh the the the music bores you out of [15:51] your mind. You you you wish you were in [15:53] fact collecting bees with your bare [15:56] hands, but you're going to sit there and [15:58] cheer for your child. Why are you a [16:00] hypocrite? Of course not. What you know [16:03] is that this is good for my child. The [16:06] fact that I can't couldn't care less. [16:09] Not me, Dennis, but you the parent. I [16:12] happen to love classical music, but [16:13] that's a separate issue. I just want to [16:15] make it clear what I'm talking about. [16:17] another person, a a a theoretical [16:19] person. That's not hypocrisy. That is a [16:22] wise parent. The fact that I don't [16:25] believe in it [16:27] doesn't mean that I don't want my [16:29] children to believe in it. [16:32] So there's nothing, it's not only not [16:34] hypocritical, it is wise and good for [16:36] you to go to church or synagogue if you [16:39] don't believe in it, but if your spouse [16:41] and does take your kids, why shouldn't [16:43] daddy go or mommy go? Well, I want to be [16:46] true to my beliefs, but you don't apply [16:48] that to anything else in life unless you [16:51] believe that the religion is bad. Well, [16:54] if you believe that it's bad, then you [16:56] have a real marital crisis. Cuz what you [16:58] believe then is that your spouse is [17:00] engaging in an evil. All right? Then I I [17:04] have no recommendation. But for the vast [17:06] majority of you who respect your [17:08] spouse's religiosity, if you're not [17:10] religious, I don't see why you wouldn't [17:13] go with them to church or synagogue, [17:15] especially if it's the kids. [17:18] What does it cost you folks? What does [17:20] it cost? [17:25] That that's a that's by the way that's [17:27] worthy, Allan, of of its own time to put [17:31] that challenge out there. We It doesn't [17:33] even have to be in a male female hour. [17:36] All right, let's go to some more of your [17:38] calls here. Let's go to Vorhees, New [17:40] Jersey, and Tom. Hello, Tom. Dennis [17:42] Prager. [17:43] >> Hi, Dennis. How are you? [17:44] >> I am well, thank you. [17:47] >> Um, I'm a Sheets. [17:50] >> Uh, you're you you are uh a non-Jew. [17:54] >> That's correct. [17:55] >> Right. Okay. You're using a term I'm not [17:58] a fan of. Uh, but it's it's it's it [18:02] doesn't matter. It's it's a Yiddishism [18:04] for non-Jew, but go ahead. [18:06] >> Right. And and and actually I I consider [18:08] you something of my rabbi. [18:10] >> Okay. I'm honored by that. Thank you. [18:12] >> Listen to you all the time and and your [18:14] your your discussions on on religion are [18:17] have been valuable to me and to my wife. [18:19] Not been always that easy. [18:22] >> Thank you. Now, now you you are are you [18:25] in any religion? [18:26] >> Um I'm Catholic. My wife is uh is [18:29] Jewish. [18:29] >> Okay. Go ahead. [18:31] >> So, we we made decisions early on when [18:34] when we were first dating. Um she was, [18:36] you know, she had been boss mitzvah, but [18:38] she wasn't very observant. Um and when [18:41] when we decided to get married, you [18:44] know, we got married by a a priest and a [18:46] rabbi. Um and and the rabbi and the [18:49] priest both counseledled us that we [18:50] should bring the children up in a [18:52] religion and not try to do both. It was [18:53] too confusing for the kids. and my wife [18:56] had no difficulties at all in agreeing [18:59] to that. Um, and we were going to raise [19:02] the kids Catholic. [19:04] But when the first baby was born, it was [19:07] much much more difficult [19:10] >> because all of a sudden, you know, her [19:12] religious background and her family [19:15] background all of a sudden came back. [19:18] And it was kind of funny because when [19:19] she was holding our firstborn, my wife [19:21] started spouting Yiddish words, which I [19:23] hadn't heard her ever use. How [19:25] interesting. [19:26] >> And and you know the popa. [19:29] >> I would have I would have predicted this [19:30] by the way. [19:31] >> Yeah. I didn't I I mean I I I was a [19:34] little naive at first and and [19:35] >> Well, no, you weren't the naive one. She [19:37] was the naive one. [19:38] >> Ah, [19:39] >> you weren't naive at all. You took her [19:41] at her word. You had every reason to. [19:43] She was naive about uh about the impact [19:48] that having a child would have on the [19:51] ultimate questions of life. [19:53] >> Oh, I I agree. and and that's that's [19:55] exactly the some substance of it. And [19:57] also [19:58] and in the early part of the marriage, I [20:00] was not the best husband, I'm still a [20:02] work in pro progress. So that made it [20:05] even worse, you know, in some ways. [20:07] >> Mhm. [20:07] >> Because because if if if I were the [20:10] loving husband I should have been and [20:12] strive to be, but it would have been [20:14] easier, I think, for her. But it still [20:15] was difficult. And and her family didn't [20:17] really give us any trouble. And uh in [20:19] that regard, they accepted that, though [20:21] it was not freely discussed. Mhm. [20:23] >> Um we celebrate all the Catholic [20:26] Christian holidays, but uh I also go to [20:30] um Yom Kapor I've gone to Yom Kapoor [20:32] services with my father-in-law and I we [20:34] celebrate um Passover every year with my [20:36] brother-in-law and and and we have the [20:39] Hagada and we do the whole nine yards [20:41] and it's part of it's part of our [20:42] >> So what it ended up it ended up that the [20:44] kids are being raised with two [20:46] religions. [20:47] >> Well, they they they go to church. They [20:48] went to church until they they decided [20:50] they didn't have to when they were 19 [20:52] 189 19. [20:52] >> So what if I asked your kids now what [20:55] are you in any religion? What would they [20:57] answer? [20:58] >> They would probably say we were raised [20:59] Catholic. Um and and that's probably [21:02] about as far as they would go. They're [21:03] not terribly observant themselves. [21:05] >> So your word to the wise to those [21:07] considering marriage is you better think [21:09] this through. [21:11] >> Yes. I mean I mean I I still I'm still [21:13] glad we got married. I'm I'm [21:15] >> No, no, I understand and I appreciate [21:17] that. It was an honest call. Forgive me. [21:19] I got I have to take a break. And I'll [21:22] comment on this when we come back. [21:24] >> This episode of Timeless [music] Wisdom [21:26] will continue right after this. [21:29] >> Who answers America's call for more [21:31] [music] energy? Our people do. [21:35] They've helped boost Chevron's US energy [21:37] production by nearly [music] 60% in the [21:40] past 3 years, helping fuel national [21:43] energy security and drives down the open [21:46] roads that make America. [music] [21:48] Learn more about what our people do at [21:50] chevron.com/amea. [21:55] [music] [21:59] Now, back to more of [music] Dennis [22:01] Prager's timeless wisdom. [22:04] You're listening to the Dennis Prager [22:05] show. [22:09] [music] [22:09] >> And this is the male female hour and [22:11] given the Christmas Hanukkah season that [22:14] [music] we are entering. I am [22:16] asking you how you have if you have [22:19] indeed worked out religious differences [22:21] and I don't mean two different [22:22] religions. That's one of them. The other [22:24] is one is more religious than the other. [22:26] We've had two calls of course I've spent [22:29] a lot of time with both of the callers [22:31] and one representing one both of the [22:34] same religion [22:36] nominally but one religious one [22:38] irreligious and one where you have two [22:42] different religions and the last one was [22:45] all of a sudden in this case it was a [22:48] Catholic man and a Jewish woman and all [22:50] they had agreed raise the kids in one [22:52] religion it would be Catholic she was at [22:54] peace with that then the child was born [22:57] and then all of a sudden she felt Jewish [22:59] again to put to put it uh as simply as [23:02] possible and this happens in both [23:04] directions. People dismiss in the [23:07] because they are in love which is the [23:09] most powerful emotion there is and [23:13] because there are wonderful people in [23:14] all faiths there just are [23:17] [gasps] [23:18] and and they're not easy to find. So [23:20] people are deeply attracted marry and [23:22] they they don't worry about the issue [23:23] when there are children. [23:26] And uh it is it is that is the reason [23:28] that all things being equal I have I [23:30] have so argued that to the best of [23:33] people's ability they marry somebody in [23:34] their religion or who converts to their [23:37] religion or whatever but that they share [23:39] one religion by the time a child will [23:42] come [23:44] because when the children come then all [23:47] of a sudden things you might have [23:49] thought were not significant do turn out [23:51] to be significant. [23:55] And that's uh it's part of the [23:57] complexity of an open society where [23:59] there are good people of all different [24:02] backgrounds. I my these people have my [24:05] sympathy, not anything else but my [24:07] sympathy. But I'm trying to help those [24:10] who are planning marriage to think this [24:12] through prior to their getting married. [24:16] Alrighty. Let's go to Denver, Colorado [24:20] and Liz. Hi Liz. Dennis Prager. [24:22] >> Hi Dennis. How are you? I'm well, thank [24:24] you. [24:25] >> I have to tell you, you are one of the [24:27] heroes of my family. [24:28] >> Wow. That means a lot to me. Thank you. [24:31] >> My husband is a Christian pastor in [24:34] Denver, [24:35] >> and he has counseledled couples from [24:37] various different religious backgrounds, [24:40] one being a believer and one not, or two [24:42] separate [24:44] >> um religious backgrounds. [24:46] >> And they get into the relationship in [24:48] love and excited. And that generally is [24:51] not enough when one has a strong [24:55] conviction about their moral belief. [24:59] What you say about morals being such a [25:01] strong um an important thing more [25:05] important than race or anything else is [25:07] very true because he finds that so many [25:10] couples love each other but when you [25:13] feel strongly about moral convictions [25:15] and your spouse doesn't that's such an [25:17] intimate relationship. Now, do you mean [25:19] moral convictions or religious [25:21] convictions? [25:22] >> I mean both moral and rel. [25:23] >> Yeah. Well, you may have very similar [25:25] moral convictions and still have the [25:27] problem of different religious [25:28] convictions. [25:29] >> You're exactly right. But I think if one [25:31] of the spouses feels very strongly about [25:34] their religious or moral convictions and [25:36] the other one doesn't share that, it is [25:39] the exception to the rule that they have [25:40] a strong growing marriage. [25:43] >> Well, I thank you for your call. you you [25:45] you I I that's my worry because I want [25:49] marriages to be good, but we I'm doing [25:53] this hour in the hope that there can be [25:55] some clarity out there and and also to [25:57] find out how people who may have worked [25:59] it out. I don't think that nobody can [26:01] work this out. I think that it's harder [26:04] and marriage has its own uh issues and [26:07] including within the same religion as I [26:09] think we'll find out here and I thank [26:11] you Liz with Stephanie in Phoenix, [26:13] Arizona. Hi Stephanie, Dennis Prager. [26:15] >> Hi. How are you? [26:16] >> I'm okay, thanks. [26:18] >> Okay. My story is my husband and I are [26:20] both Jewish. We've been married for [26:22] about 35 years. [26:24] >> At the time we got married, he really [26:26] had been raised in what I call a very [26:27] secular background. Christmas trees, uh, [26:30] Easter egg hunts, the whole thing, [26:32] right? Um, and I had grown up in uh, [26:35] >> a conservative traditional Jewish [26:38] background, right? [26:39] >> And that's what our house was. We belong [26:40] to a conservative synagogue. Our kids [26:42] were raised that way. And then about 10 [26:44] years ago, my husband started to get [26:47] involved in the Kabad Labovich movement, [26:50] >> right? [26:50] >> And um liked the rabbi very much, got [26:54] involved in learning and decided that he [26:57] was no longer interested in going to a [26:58] conservative synagogue. He only wanted [27:00] to go to the Labovich movement. And as [27:03] I'm sure you know, maybe not all of your [27:05] >> All right. Well, we'll we'll we'll [27:07] continue. Don't hang up. This is an [27:09] example of where in the same religion [27:11] you will now have differences. [music] [27:13] We'll come back. [27:14] >> Your beloved dog and a stranger are both [27:16] drowning. You can only save one. Who do [27:19] you save? Every time Dennis Prager asks [27:21] that question, [music] his audience [27:23] splits three ways. One-third chooses the [27:25] dog, one-third chooses [music] the [27:27] stranger, and one-third aren't sure why. [27:30] Because we live in an age where [27:32] increasingly feelings [music] define [27:34] right and wrong. But if morality is [27:36] based on emotion, then murder, rape, and [27:38] theft are just opinions. And if people [27:41] feel justified, why is [music] rioting [27:43] or destruction wrong at all? In his new [27:45] book, If There Is No God, Dennis Prager [27:47] [music] explains why civilizations [27:49] cannot survive without objective [27:51] morality, and why Judeo-Christian values [27:54] shape the moral [music] foundations of [27:55] the free world. If you claim that [27:58] certain things are good, certain things [28:01] are evil, independent of how you [music] [28:04] feel about it, you are in effect [28:06] affirming God. [28:08] >> If there is no God by Dennis Prager, [28:10] available now at pragertore.com. That's [28:12] [music] pragertore.com. [28:15] >> You're listening to the Dennis Prager [28:16] show, [music] The Male Female Hour. [28:19] And I was just saying to Alan, this is a [28:22] riveting hour. I I your your stories [28:24] every one of them is unique [music] and [28:28] uh important here. [28:30] I'm talking about uh religious [28:32] differences in marriages and how you [28:35] have worked it out if indeed you have. [28:37] So I want calls where it has been worked [28:39] out or it hasn't worked out but for [28:41] people to hear and and try to derive [28:44] some clarity on the issue. And remember [28:47] there are two distinct issues. Three [28:51] really [28:53] one different religions. Two one is [28:57] religious and one is not religious. [29:00] Three one is much more religious and one [29:03] is much less in the same religion. [29:06] The third is our current example. We've [29:08] had an example of each one. Now I've [29:11] deliberately taken the calls that way. [29:12] We have we've had each each one [29:14] represented. We go back to Stephanie. [29:17] Stephanie is married 35 years and this [29:19] was after 25 years, correct? You said 10 [29:22] years ago, [29:23] >> right? About 10 years ago. Exactly. [29:25] >> Okay. So, you're you you were always the [29:27] more religious. You were both Jewish. [29:29] You were the more religious Jewish. [29:31] >> Then 10 years ago, he became involved in [29:34] in what's called ultraorththodoxy. And [29:36] the ultra is not a is not is only [29:38] descriptive, is not a condemnation. I'm [29:40] a big fan of Kabad, though I happen not [29:41] to be Orthodox, but I'm a very big fan [29:44] of theirs. And uh and he has become uh [29:47] involved with them. And now uh I is he [29:51] fully Orthodox now? [29:53] >> Well, I not totally. I mean, one thing [29:56] about the Labovich movement is they [29:58] really sort of take you wherever you [29:59] are. Um so, yes, we have a kosher home, [30:02] but we always had a kosher home. Uh he [30:04] goes to services now generally, maybe [30:07] Saturdays. We're not all right. So, all [30:09] right. So, wait a minute. So, so in your [30:11] case, it has worked out. [30:13] >> Well, it's worked out, yes, but with a [30:17] little bit of a rub. I mean, as you [30:18] know, one of the things that they do in [30:19] Orthodox synagogues is they the men and [30:22] women sit separately. I mean, [30:23] >> so you All right, let me let me now tell [30:25] you, listen carefully. Okay, I'm going [30:27] to let you go, but please listen [30:29] carefully. [30:30] >> This goes to everybody listening. And [30:32] it's not just about religion. It could [30:34] be about politics. Let's say two [30:37] liberals got married and one became [30:39] conservative or two conservatives [30:40] married and one became a liberal or let [30:43] alone where two uh irreligious people [30:46] married and one became very religious or [30:48] two religious people got married and one [30:50] became irreligious. My human sympathy no [30:54] matter what the values I may totally [30:56] agree with the one who changed [30:59] but my human sympathy is always with the [31:02] one who didn't change [31:06] remember it was it's like a deal when [31:08] you get married I am a and you are a but [31:12] if you become after 15 20 years not a [31:17] then the one who stays a [31:21] has been dealt a a raw deal. I mean, [31:24] let's be honest, and I'll even say, [31:26] look, you know, I I have I have great [31:28] problems with the left, but let's say [31:30] two leftists marry, and then one becomes [31:33] a conservative politically, and I agree [31:36] with the conservative, but my sympathies [31:39] are still with the liberal spouse [31:41] because that spouse changed on you. I'm [31:45] not saying that you you they can't [31:47] change. I'm just saying that I have a [31:49] human sympathy. So you who change have [31:52] to guard the the the feelings of the one [31:57] who didn't change. [31:59] You have to be very respectful. If you [32:02] became religious, super religious, [32:04] Christian, Jewish, whatever, in the [32:06] course of the marriage to someone and [32:08] neither of you was particularly [32:10] religious beforehand, you have to be [32:12] very respectful of your spouse and [32:14] understand what you've done. You've [32:17] you've you've done 180 on them. [32:21] And so, please bear that in mind. All [32:23] right, that that's what's that's my my [32:25] message to Stephanie's husband. And I [32:28] say that as someone who is religious. [32:31] Alrighty. Let's go to Dallas, Texas and [32:34] Corey. Hi, Corey. Dennis Prager. [32:37] >> Hey, Mr. Prager. How you doing? [32:39] >> Well, very well, thank you. [32:40] >> Um, never done this before. I know [32:42] everybody says that who hasn't, but uh, [32:44] I respect what you say. I listen to you [32:46] on good days. You make me feel good even [32:48] when I'm already happy. [32:49] >> That's a great compliment. [32:52] >> Um, today is a sad day for me though. I [32:55] recently caught my wife cheating on me [32:57] with another man. [33:00] >> And this is when I say recent, this is [33:02] probably only four days ago. [33:05] >> And our problems have spawned from the [33:09] topic you're talking about right now. I [33:11] I've always been religious growing up [33:14] and but when we dated, we weren't [33:15] religious. [33:17] Uh, I was semi-religious, I guess you [33:19] would say. And then when we got married, [33:20] the the older I got. We we've been [33:22] married for two and a half years. The [33:25] older I got, the more religious I got [33:27] because I guess maybe the wiser I got [33:29] and the more I felt that religion became [33:32] more important to me as we went on. And [33:35] uh, the reason I've hurt her and I guess [33:38] pushed her away is I wanted her to be [33:40] involved with this religion. [33:41] >> Well, what is your religion? [33:43] >> I I'm a Christian. I I attend a church [33:46] of Christ. [33:46] >> Mhm. [33:48] >> And uh [33:48] >> So when you married, neither of you was [33:50] particularly religious. [33:52] >> Not necessarily. No, I was on the [33:54] inside, but I didn't outwardly. [33:56] >> Okay. But to from her perspective, the [33:59] two of you were similar religiously. [34:02] >> Uh yes. He didn't. [34:04] >> So So you're the one who changed in [34:06] effect. [34:07] >> Yes, sir. [34:07] >> There's no blame here. Please [34:08] understand. I just want to understand [34:10] what happened. [34:11] >> Yes, sir. [34:11] >> All right. So you're saying that that [34:13] has caused tension? [34:15] >> It caused tension [34:16] >> to the to the extent that you feel that [34:18] she has now had an affair. [34:20] >> Yes, I know she did. [34:21] >> Right. I I'm saying to but but you [34:24] attribute it in large measure to this [34:26] tension. [34:27] >> Yes. [34:27] >> Because you have grown apart because of [34:29] your [34:31] uh increased religiosity and where where [34:33] she has stayed the same. [34:35] >> Yes, sir. [34:36] >> Yeah. [34:38] Well, go on. I'm I'm trying to [34:40] understand right now that for me, I [34:44] don't want to throw this away because I [34:45] value a marriage. I think it's a sacred [34:47] thing and I think no matter how hurt you [34:50] get and how far gone you think it is, I [34:52] think it's worth a shot to fix it. And [34:54] we've even planned to get counseling [34:56] even tonight actually to work through [34:59] this. But I'm just trying to figure out [35:02] I know you say that um you have to [35:05] respect the other and and maybe not push [35:07] them or beat her over the head. That's [35:09] right. I do say that. [35:10] >> My religious values and can can two [35:13] people after this has happened, can they [35:15] coexist? [35:16] >> You mean after an affair? [35:18] >> After something I mean before if I had [35:20] >> All right. All right. Let me let me let [35:22] me react as soon as we come back. [35:23] [music] [35:23] >> This episode of Timeless Wisdom will [35:26] continue right after this. [35:29] >> Who answers America's call for more [35:31] energy? Our people [music] do. [35:35] They've helped boost Chevron's US energy [35:37] production by nearly 60% [music] [35:39] in the past 3 years, helping fuel [35:42] national energy security and drives down [35:45] the open roads that make America. [35:48] Learn more about what our people [music] [35:49] do at chevron.com/amea. [35:58] [music] [35:59] I don't know why you say goodbye. I say [36:02] hello. [36:03] >> Now back to more of Dennis Prager's [36:05] timeless wisdom. [music] [36:13] [singing] [36:16] >> Wow, did this go fast. you say [36:20] >> let me say [music] quickly to Cory who's [36:22] in a in a world of pain totally [36:24] understandably [36:27] >> uh wherein he uh he has affirmed [36:30] religiosity they're only 25 the couple [36:33] or at least he's 25 I assume she's near [36:35] nearer his age and she's now uh had an [36:38] affair and they're going to counseling [36:40] tonight and he thinks it's in in in [36:43] response to the religious drift that he [36:47] has [36:48] become religious in his case Christian [36:50] whereas they were just I guess [36:52] culturally Christian when they married [36:55] although he said in his heart he was [36:57] more than that but of course that [36:58] doesn't matter it's what you it's what [36:59] you do more than what's in your heart [37:01] visav other people anyway [37:04] and uh very quickly I am of the belief [37:07] and I have said this often uh that an [37:09] affair should never be an automatic end [37:12] of an of a marriage never not an [37:15] automatic [37:16] It may have to end a marriage, but it [37:19] should never be an automatic end. [37:22] But the point of this is back to the [37:25] question of religious difference and how [37:28] in how powerful an impact that could [37:32] have when one changes. It's tough enough [37:35] if you marry with differences. Imagine [37:38] if you marry with no differences in that [37:40] arena and then one of one of you does go [37:43] in one direction or the other. [37:47] I have uh I have wanted to s some I have [37:50] wanted to hear from all perspectives and [37:53] my god we have them all. It's worthy of [37:56] many many returns as a subject. Let's [37:59] see. Lesly in Colorado, I'm married to a [38:02] non-believer. He goes to church with me [38:03] but does not do it uh uh out of respect [38:06] for me. It doesn't work well. Aisha in [38:09] Philadelphia. I'm converting to [38:10] Catholicism. My ex-husband was a bitter [38:12] ex- Catholic. [38:14] And yes, and that was part of their [38:16] problem. I'm a Christian and my husband [38:19] is agnostic. Diane in Phoenix. He sees [38:21] the value of Christian values but just [38:23] doesn't understand the faith. I could [38:25] talk to all of you for days and we will [38:27] return to this. And Ben in Florida, my [38:30] wife and I are Jewish and over the last [38:32] year she's converted to Christianity. [38:34] And yes, it's a complex world out there. [38:38] Again though, there are two quick rules. [38:42] Those of you contemplating marriage and [38:44] especially young enough to still have to [38:46] want children, [38:49] don't think that the religion you were [38:51] raised with is insignificant to you. [38:54] When you have a child, it may become [38:56] very very significant. Something for you [38:59] to think about. [39:01] And secondly, the one who changes [39:04] towards religion, away from religion to [39:06] another religion has to respect the fact [39:09] that they are the ones who have changed [39:12] on the other. They changed [music] the [39:13] rules of that marriage. This has been [39:16] the male female hour on the Dennis [39:17] Prager show. [39:19] >> Tomorrow on Timeless Wisdom [music] with [39:21] Dennis Prager. [39:22] >> I know you will want to hear this. [39:25] Donovan Campbell is a graduate of [39:26] Harvard Business School where he also [39:29] and he also finished first in his class [39:31] at the Marines basic uh at the Marines [39:34] basic officer course. Served three [39:36] combat deployments, two in Iraq and one [39:38] in Afghanistan. Was awarded the combat [39:41] action ribbon and a bronze star with [39:43] valor for his time in Iraq. And he has [39:45] this book out which uh is just [39:48] extraordinarily wellreceived. Joker 1: A [39:52] Marine Platoon's st story of courage, [39:55] leadership, and brotherhood. [39:57] You're a religious man. Would you make [39:59] did you uh pray before each battle? [40:02] >> As a matter of fact, we did. Uh I [40:03] personally prayed because I was [40:05] terrified I would make mistakes and and [40:06] screw things up. [40:07] >> What did you pray for or what did you [40:09] pray? [40:09] >> I prayed for humility that I would know [40:12] when I was making a mistake and correct [40:13] it quickly. I prayed for wisdom, the [40:15] ability to see myself in the world as as [40:18] God sees it. And I prayed for [40:20] unselfishness, the ability to put aside, [40:23] you know, my daily desires in favor of [40:25] serving and taking care of my men first. [40:27] And that was hard. Um, and then when we [40:29] before we went into battle as a platoon, [40:31] we played the 20 we prayed the 23rd [40:33] Psalm. And we prayed the beginning of [40:35] Psalm 144. Blessed be the Lord, my rock, [40:38] who trains my hands for battle and my [40:39] fingers for war. Um, and and that was [40:41] sort of our pre [40:42] >> In your Hebrew studies at Princeton, did [40:45] you study the 23rd Psalm in Hebrew? I [40:47] did, but it's been a long time. [40:49] >> Do you remember any of it? [40:51] >> No, I'm ashamed to say. Perhaps I didn't [40:53] study as hard as I should have. [40:54] >> Adonairoi, [40:59] does that ring a bell? [41:01] >> Vaguely. And I'm I'm humbled and [41:02] impressed. I don't know what else to [41:04] say. [41:04] >> Well, I I I'm more impressed that you [41:06] studied Hebrew than that I did. You're a [41:08] remarkable man. It's it's a it's it's [41:11] just a joy to uh to have you on. Join us [41:14] tomorrow to hear more on Timeless [41:16] [music] Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Visit [41:19] dennisprager.com for thousands of hours [41:22] of Dennis's lectures, [music] courses, [41:23] and classic radio programs and to [41:26] purchase Dennis Prager's Rational [41:28] Bibles. [41:29] [music] [41:32] We want to take just a second to thank [41:34] the team at Life Audio for their [41:36] partnership with us on the podcast. Go [41:37] to lifeaudio.com to find dozens of other [41:40] FaithCenter podcasts in their network, [41:42] including shows about prayer, Bible [41:44] study, parenting, and more. Rising [41:47] interest rates, stock volatility, out of [41:49] control inflation. People are concerned [41:51] about what the future holds financially. [41:53] This is Dennis Prager for AF Coin and [41:55] Bullion. There's no better time than the [41:57] present to move a portion of your IRA [41:59] into precious metals. You should know [42:01] there's a right and a wrong way to set [42:02] up your precious metals IRA. Mistakes [42:04] could cost you hundreds of thousands of [42:06] dollars in IRS fines. Call Amfed Coin [42:09] and Bullion 8002217694. [42:13] Americanfederal.com. [42:15] It's americanferal.com.
