Transcript [00:13] [music] Hi friends and welcome to the [00:14] 1840 podcast where each month we try to [00:17] explore a different topic balancing [00:19] modern sensibilities with traditional [00:21] sensitivities [music] to give you new [00:23] approaches to timeless Jewish ideas. I'm [00:26] your host David Bashevkin and today we [00:28] are continuing our annual exploration of [00:31] Tshua. Thank you so much to our series [00:34] sponsors Danielle and Mer Stokar. Thank [00:37] you so much for your friendship and [00:38] support over all these years. This [00:41] podcast is part of a larger exploration [00:43] of those big juicy Jewish ideas. So be [00:46] sure to check out our website 1840.org. [00:49] That's 18forty.org [00:51] where you can also find videos, [00:53] articles, recommended readings, and [00:55] weekly emails. In many ways, what [00:58] rashana functions as in our kind of [01:01] day-to-day life is like a beginning that [01:04] we can return to. When people speak [01:06] about the beginning of the year, they [01:08] can be talking about a lot of different [01:10] things. They can be talking about [01:11] there's a fiscal calendar, there's a [01:13] school year, uh you could be talking [01:15] about January 1st. One of the beauties [01:18] of rashish shana and the actual [01:20] beginning of the year is the ability to [01:22] kind of come back to our actual [01:24] beginning to take stock so to speak of [01:27] like where are we as our lives unfold. [01:31] Is there an origin? Is there a initial [01:34] purpose that should be animating our [01:36] lives? And rash shana is the time that [01:38] we're able to go back and find that [01:40] beginning kernel of purpose that we then [01:44] actualize throughout our lives. And [01:47] today's episode, I think, is a [01:49] fascinating exploration into those [01:51] beginnings. I have a very dear friend [01:54] that I have known for well over 20 years [01:58] who will be talking to today whose name [02:00] is Eton Epstein. Eton Epstein happened [02:03] to have been my roommate in Yeshiva. [02:05] That is not why I had him on, though. We [02:07] could do a separate episode about what [02:08] that was like. Uh I uh I was a terrible [02:13] roommate in Yeshiva, and I should [02:15] probably be more upfront about that. I [02:17] should probably actually apologize [02:19] properly and formally for anybody who [02:21] had to be my roommate in Yeshiva. But [02:24] Eton, who was my roommate in Yeshiva, [02:27] went through his own transformation of [02:29] sorts. He came in as a boy who just [02:32] graduated from Ramas, like the flagship [02:34] modern Orthodox high school. Uh, and by [02:38] the end of his time in Saliv where we [02:41] were studying in Israel, uh, he had [02:44] plans that he wanted to go to the most [02:46] serious yeshiva institutions. Uh, his [02:49] parents ended up uh, making him forcing [02:52] him uh, to go to uh, Colombia. uh that [02:55] backfired because that he had only like [02:58] this wasn't him and he went to YU but [03:00] then even after YU he really found his [03:03] place uh in the yeshiva world much more [03:05] communally where he raises his family [03:08] and I remember him in that transition [03:10] and we would talk a lot about those [03:12] transitions even as it was happening I [03:15] was watching he was a grade older than [03:16] me and like watching him kind of develop [03:20] was something very very exciting we also [03:22] used to study together I studied in [03:24] Israel in the year 2002 [03:28] uh which was a year after September 11th [03:32] and people were still really like like [03:36] it was raw. It was still very much uh in [03:39] people's memories. I believe September [03:41] 11th took place on a Tuesday and my [03:44] brother's bar mitzvah was that shabas [03:46] and was one of those shabases where they [03:48] had like three different bar mitzvah in [03:51] the shul that week and it was incredibly [03:54] overwhelming for everybody but [03:56] definitely for my brother something my [03:58] brother Ay who I love. Fast forward to [04:00] the next year when I was studying in [04:01] Israel. September 11th took place when I [04:03] was in 12th grade. When I was studying [04:04] in Israel Eton showed me something [04:07] really amazing. It was an oped. This is [04:09] before the world was so political. It [04:11] was very unusual honestly at that age to [04:13] even read an op-ed to know what an op-ed [04:15] was. And he showed me an op-ed that was [04:17] written in the New York Times by Morin [04:19] Dowed. And it's something I've quoted [04:22] before. And it's an oped that is about [04:25] growth and development itself. After [04:28] September 11th, the whole world kind of [04:30] convinced itself like we've changed. [04:31] Like now America, we're very patriotic [04:33] and we have appreciation for what this [04:35] country is about. There used to be [04:37] American flags outside of homes as far [04:40] as you could see, no matter the [04:41] neighborhood. And she wrote this article [04:44] really cautioning [04:47] America and the American people to not [04:50] be too premature in their sense of [04:54] certainty of how much we have changed. [04:56] She has a brilliant line and this is the [04:59] line that Eton shared with me when we [05:02] were studying together in Israel which [05:04] said our obsession with how much we've [05:06] changed is indicative of how much we've [05:09] stayed the same. When we're constantly [05:11] going around talking, oh, I'm a totally [05:12] different person. I've totally changed. [05:15] When real change happens slowly and over [05:17] time, the typology of change is not [05:20] just, you know, Moses at the burning [05:22] bush with this fire of clarity. There is [05:25] another model of change which is very [05:27] slow, which is very gradual. I like to [05:30] hold up in parallel to the story of [05:32] Moses at the burning bush, the story of [05:34] of Rebea and watching the slow drip of [05:38] water and how it can shape a cleft in a [05:40] rock. Just one little droplet of water. [05:44] And that is the model that Eton really [05:46] showed me of how just a little bit daily [05:49] consistency can really shape who you are [05:52] as a person. You don't need these big [05:54] cataclysmic events to give you the [05:56] confidence to then announce to the [05:58] world, oh, I'm totally different. I've [05:59] totally changed. And he taught me a lot [06:01] about change itself. And that is why for [06:04] today's episode, I wanted to highlight a [06:06] program that Eton is involved in that I [06:09] think is so amazing and beautiful and [06:12] something that I've seen cropping up all [06:14] over the Jewish world. That is a program [06:17] that opens up the doorways to consistent [06:21] daily Torah learning. Eton developed [06:24] something called the 300 club which we [06:26] will talk about. It's called the 300 [06:28] club just because 300 seconds is 5 [06:31] minutes where he has people who are not [06:33] studying daily most of whom who have [06:36] never studied daily. Um and he learns [06:38] with a bunch he has other educators who [06:40] learn with them. And what I wanted to [06:42] explore is what is it like beginning a [06:46] journey in Torah learning. Those who [06:48] have watched the work of 1840 know this [06:50] is very similar to what we're doing in [06:53] Talma daily. And this is very similar to [06:55] our partners at the Simless Torah [06:58] Challenge run by my dear friend Tanya [07:00] Singer. It's an incredible initiative [07:02] kicking off Simless Torah that's trying [07:05] to open up Torah study to new audiences, [07:08] people who have never done this before. [07:10] This is what's behind Talma Daily, which [07:12] you can check out at talmadaily.org. [07:14] And this is definitely what is behind [07:16] the 300 club. The commonality of all [07:19] three is the notion that even if you [07:22] feel like you are at the beginning, that [07:24] can sometimes be the sweetest place and [07:27] the sweetest time to build that [07:29] consistency to take your first step in [07:32] daily Torah learning. And what we're [07:35] going to hear from today is not only my [07:37] dear friend Eton Epstein and how he [07:40] thought of this and what this program is [07:41] really about, but I'm talking to two [07:43] people within the program who don't have [07:46] a background, have never really studied [07:48] Torah all that consistently, but have [07:51] taken it upon themsel that every single [07:53] day a day will not go by unless we are [07:56] learning five minutes every single day. [07:59] And this is, I think, a new paradigm of [08:02] growth. Not that it has never existed [08:04] before, but to really take that one [08:07] onone, what we call kavusa learning and [08:10] open it up to somebody new who's never [08:12] really had the beauty and the taste not [08:14] only of Torah, but I think something [08:16] even more important to emphasize is the [08:19] consistency daily Torah study making [08:22] this a part of our lives and the fact [08:26] that my dear friend Eton Epstein, [08:28] somebody who has his own story of growth [08:31] that we touch upon, took those lessons [08:34] seeing all these different communities [08:36] and found a way to open up a new gateway [08:40] for people to come and begin journeys of [08:42] Torah learning. That is why it is my [08:44] absolute privilege and pleasure to [08:46] introduce our conversation with my dear [08:50] friend Eton Epstein and some of his [08:53] incredible incredible participants in [08:55] the 300 club. [08:59] It is my absolute privilege and pleasure [09:02] to introduce a friend. We'll say it [09:05] right up top. My roommate in Yeshiva [09:08] when I studied in Israel for the year in [09:10] Yeshiva Shalim. My esteemed roommate who [09:13] I saw evolve from a pink shirted high [09:16] school student to the bastion of Torah [09:21] and really yeshiva culture. I really [09:23] mean that in a very very impressive way. [09:25] It is my absolute privilege and pleasure [09:27] to introduce my dear friend Eton [09:29] Epstein. Thank you so much for joining [09:30] today. [09:31] >> Thank you David Do for having me. [09:32] >> So I want to start with why you're here [09:35] to open up this episode. You started [09:37] something which I think is one of the [09:40] most fascinating and exciting [09:42] initiatives uh in the Jewish world right [09:44] now and it is called the 300 [09:48] club. A I love Jewish initiatives that [09:52] are just numbers. We know this. I love [09:54] it. It's fantastic. Um, and thank you so [09:58] much for not, you know, like Price is [10:00] writing me and doing 1839 or 1841. So, I [10:04] really, you know, undercut by just a [10:06] dollar. You really get messed over. Uh, [10:07] but you started this initiative called [10:09] the 300 Club. Tell me very basically [10:13] what does it mean? What is the 300 club? [10:15] What does it mean to be a member? [10:17] >> The 300 Club name came to me. I was [10:19] driving on the highway. It kind of [10:20] popped into my head. Um, we had already [10:22] begun the program. It wasn't as if I [10:23] named the program and then launched it. [10:25] We had been doing it for a little while. [10:26] >> Oh, that's interesting. It's the [10:28] opposite of how how bands start in high [10:30] school. [10:30] >> Exactly. [10:31] >> Always first you for I forgot to pay out [10:33] the band name and then like okay, who [10:34] knows how to play an instrument. You [10:35] know that that comes later. [10:36] >> I mean the program itself kind of [10:38] happened by accident. I had uh about 10 [10:40] years ago I started the new shell to [10:42] center which was kind of a traditional [10:44] community co-op new shell which is where [10:45] I grew up in Westchester. Um, and [10:48] thankfully that had been successful. And [10:50] there was always kind of a nagging [10:52] thought in in my mind, which is an idea [10:54] my father had planted in my head years [10:56] ago that every member of every synagogue [10:59] should be responsible as part of the [11:00] dues to learn for a specific number of [11:03] minutes per week in the synagogue. [11:05] That's I just want to pause for a [11:07] second. We're definitely not going to go [11:09] in depth. And your father [11:11] deserves more than an episode, more than [11:13] a mention. He would need a full series. [11:15] We both agree on that, [11:16] >> which I'm sure he'll be happy to do. [11:17] >> Yeah. But your but your father, Eli [11:19] Epstein, is a great friend, has been a [11:21] mentor and a guide to me. So, he has [11:22] this idea that like part being a Jewish [11:25] community is not just paying your dues, [11:28] but like actually fueling and building [11:31] >> if you paid to build a building and you [11:32] come on on Shabas to be in the building. [11:34] So, the rest of the week, everyone [11:36] should be responsible for enhancing the [11:38] the learning and the studying in the in [11:40] the building. And so, you you know, [11:41] everyone's got to clock in for 30 30 [11:43] minutes, 45 minutes. [11:44] >> Exactly. like part of your dues, like 30 [11:46] minutes of Torah study. That's a [11:47] beautiful idea. [11:48] >> That was that was his that was in my in [11:50] my head. [11:50] >> Okay. [11:51] >> And there was this group of guys that I [11:52] was always trying to get and they're a [11:54] paid executive group. They're moving too [11:55] quickly. They would never have time. And [11:57] even if they do have time, this week is [11:59] Monday, the next week is Wednesday, then [12:00] they're away for three weeks. And it's [12:01] always hard to figure that out. [12:02] >> Just like an hour block standing. [12:04] >> I couldn't figure out how to do it. They [12:06] were coming a little bit, but nothing [12:07] consecutive and not consistently. So, [12:09] it's about four years ago in the summer. [12:11] I'm having dinner with one of them. [12:12] David man, we'll give him a shout out. [12:14] >> Okay. [12:14] >> And uh we're talking about different [12:16] ideas and Shabas came up and we were [12:18] talking about Shabas and and how we keep [12:20] Shabas and how we understand Shabas. And [12:21] I said to him like we're talking about [12:24] Shabas. We keep Shabas but do we study [12:26] Shabas? Do we learn about Shabas? And so [12:28] I said to him just kind of popped into [12:30] my head. I'm like David would you study [12:32] Shabas with me? And he's like how are we [12:33] going to do that? I said why don't we [12:34] just do five minutes a day on the phone. [12:36] I was a Rebby and JC in Elizabeth and I [12:39] was commuting and back and forth and I [12:40] said to David, let's just start five [12:41] minutes a day. He agreed. We probably [12:43] kicked that off in the early fall 2022. [12:46] >> Um, and it was just the two of us, five [12:47] minutes a day. And it was like [12:48] >> five minutes a day, but every day, five [12:50] minutes a day. [12:51] >> And I had no dreams of making anything [12:52] more of it. I was teaching. I was doing [12:54] my thing. And I had David as a karusa. [12:56] Uh, Purum time. He asked me, "Can we [12:58] prepare for Purum?" I said, "Sure." So, [12:59] we prepared for Purum. We actually [13:01] learned a piece of Balatana, which is, [13:02] I'm sure, close to your heart. Not going [13:04] into that now. [13:05] >> There's one right behind you camera. [13:07] >> Um, and and then he said, "You know [13:08] what? Pesak's coming. Let's prepare for [13:10] the seder." So I said, "That's a good [13:12] idea. Five minutes a day. You can give [13:13] him like a little nugget um to prepare [13:16] for the seder." And early on he says, [13:17] "You know, I'm taking notes." Now I'm in [13:19] the car driving. I'm doing this by [13:20] heart. [laughter] And he's shaving like [13:22] doing the whole like [13:24] >> and he's tell he's taking notes. And [13:25] that's the first time in six months that [13:26] he's taking notes. And if you know, [13:27] David, it's not exactly, you know, a [13:29] note take no note-taking type of guy. I [13:31] said, "Why are you taking notes?" He's [13:32] like, "Because I got to come to the SATA [13:34] prepared." You know, he's got kids that [13:35] are coming and they know they're being [13:37] >> questions of their own. I have [13:38] something. [13:38] >> Yes. He's taking notes. And at that [13:40] moment, the light went off in my head. [13:41] I'm like, there are definitely other [13:42] guys that would do this. And I quickly [13:44] kind of got a group of guys into a shell [13:46] together, probably 10 or so. And I s [13:48] sold this idea of like five minutes a [13:49] day on the phone. And they're picking [13:51] these most obscure topics. Like I'm [13:53] like, I'm not preparing separate topics [13:54] for 10 people. Just follow my lead. [13:56] We're going to do we're going to prepare [13:57] for the seder. And I prepared probably [13:58] 10 guys. I [13:59] >> each separate. It's always one. [14:00] >> Always oneonone. And again, I'm still [14:02] not thinking this is becoming anything. [14:03] I was just like, let's just get some [14:05] guys together. And it's a good way to [14:06] get FaceTime or not FaceTime, just voice [14:08] time with these guys. We go into say [14:10] into the Pesak and I've I've quickly the [14:12] night before typed up like a quick [14:14] summary of all the stuff that we did cuz [14:15] I know that everyone wants to come to [14:16] the Seder with you know their notes. Um [14:18] and after PES they're just like let's [14:20] continue like they like this worked. I [14:22] got them like I finally got these guys [14:24] that were ungettable. [14:25] >> This is the Torah study that is actually [14:27] fully integrated into my life into my [14:29] calendar. There's a rhythm to it and [14:32] there it's manageable. Five minutes is [14:34] like you could find five minutes. [14:36] >> There's one guy in particular who was [14:37] like hard to pin down and uh his name [14:41] was Ari Glass. [14:42] >> Okay, give him a give shout outs. Um and [14:45] at one point like early on I'm like it [14:46] was back and forth throughout the day. [14:47] I'm like Ari, I need a time. Just give [14:49] me a time. He's like 8:02. [14:51] >> And till this day 802 is Ari's time. [14:54] >> Till 8:07. [14:55] >> 802 to 807. That's his time. I said just [14:58] give me a slot. Give me a time. And [15:00] through the summer we kept it going. Um [15:02] and in the fall we kind of got [15:04] introduced to Englewood. So we moved [15:05] into Englewood kind of a similar type of [15:07] you know group get together 10 guys 10 [15:09] or so guys and again I'm pitching it to [15:11] people and at this point I'm seeing like [15:12] there's kind of there's growth potential [15:14] here. Um and we finished the year and [15:17] things are growing and probably at that [15:18] point I kind of created the name 300 [15:20] club which just popped into my head [15:21] getting back to that. So it's a great [15:23] point because they're now like over a [15:24] hundred teachers and I meet teachers and [15:26] people studying like what is the 300 [15:27] club? They've been doing it for three [15:29] years. So now we got that clear. you at [15:31] some point started to scale it. Meaning [15:33] you started with like what I would call [15:35] like yeshiva grads that it's been it's [15:39] been a minute since they've been in [15:40] yeshiva but they went through the [15:41] system. They were probably went to like [15:42] a modern orthodox high school. [15:44] >> Yeah. I think basically that was [15:45] everyone that was doing it at this [15:47] point. People that had gone through the [15:48] modern orthodox system were for sure [15:49] were in the modern orthodox world at [15:51] this point. [15:52] >> But then it started to branch like you [15:55] started to move beyond even the modern [15:58] orthodox world. [15:59] >> That's right. I don't remember the first [16:00] person, but I think it was posted on a [16:02] chat. Someone was enjoying it. It's [16:03] like, you know, I'm going to put this on [16:05] some sort of business chat that I'm on. [16:06] Um, and at that point, we had opened [16:08] ourselves up to kind of like I don't [16:10] know who's coming, you know? It wasn't [16:11] like targeted anymore. I wasn't picking [16:13] the clients. It was just kind of opening [16:15] myself up to who um and a couple of [16:17] people joined. Um, and I saw immediately [16:21] that their interest level, their [16:23] excitement was palpable. It was [16:26] amazingly exciting to be engaging with [16:28] them and the most fascinating part was [16:30] and still is is the same topic every day [16:33] for all people and they'll catch me like [16:35] do you say this to everyone? I'm like [16:36] yeah the same exact thing. So [16:38] >> explain what you mean by that. It's the [16:39] same [16:39] >> it's 5 minutes of prepared content that [16:41] I'm curating from you know different [16:43] places and I'm sharing it with everyone [16:46] >> and they're all hearing the same piece [16:47] of Torto. And so sometimes like did you [16:49] share this with someone who's not [16:50] orthodox? I said yeah absolutely. [16:52] >> How'd you do that? And I said maybe some [16:53] of the words were not as like [16:54] >> change the wordsized and maybe you know [16:57] and at one point I remember I was [16:58] driving with my kids cuz I'm still doing [16:59] a lot of this in the car and they [17:01] listened to me about four or five in a [17:02] row. I had an orthodox I had an orthodox [17:05] a non-orthodox. I had an Israeli type of [17:07] guy. I had a yeshivish guy. So they're [17:08] hearing the same. [17:09] >> You do like some gentle code switching. [17:11] >> Exactly. You're making you're making the [17:12] guy feel a little bit comfortable, you [17:13] know. So there's gods and there's [17:14] hashems and there's a little bit things [17:16] that move and every now and then you [17:18] throw in some Yiddish to get them, you [17:19] know, get the guys excited. [17:20] >> Um but they like it. It's authentic. [17:22] It's real. [17:23] >> One thing that's important, meaning and [17:25] you have this now for men and women, [17:27] >> correct? So, at one point I was, you [17:29] know, I don't, it's hard to remember [17:30] exactly the timeline, but someone said [17:32] to me, why don't you do this for women? [17:34] And I said, perfect. And I, you know, [17:35] got a couple of suggestions of who could [17:37] teach. Uh, we started to hire women [17:39] teachers. We now have a woman's [17:40] director. Um, we've kept everything, you [17:42] know, male and female separate, gender [17:44] separate, just because I think a big [17:46] part of it is the relationship that [17:48] develops [17:48] >> and it's much healthier to have, [17:49] >> much healthier. And and I've heard from [17:50] so many different people that I'll meet [17:52] them like my teacher is my best friend. [17:54] So you want the best friends to be [17:55] cultivated in a you know gender separate [17:57] way so that people feel comfortable and [17:59] people can [17:59] >> this is really the vision of like all [18:02] religious growth ultimately comes down [18:04] one-on-one relationship [18:05] >> 100%. [18:06] >> Because like you know I think about this [18:09] a lot like even the greatest rabbi in [18:11] the world if he would come up to just [18:12] your average Jew and start telling them [18:14] what to do told me what to do my first [18:16] reaction be like you don't know me you [18:17] don't know my life. Part of what makes [18:20] Torah and Jewish life so amazing is that [18:22] it like it needs to address you where [18:25] you are, where your actual life is. [18:28] It'll take you in a whole journey, but [18:30] like it can't it can't be divorced from [18:32] the actual person. [18:33] >> That's right. I mean, we live in a [18:35] generation where everything is [18:36] hyperpersonalized. [18:37] >> Yeah. [18:37] >> Our suits are customized. Our our social [18:40] media is customized. I mean, Amazon's [18:42] watching you and telling you what fits [18:43] you and this is your shoe size and this [18:44] is your thing. Like, we almost don't [18:46] even have to think about who we are. And [18:48] the concept is that the Torah we study [18:49] should be the same way because imagine [18:51] if you are teaching [18:52] >> remain human also [18:53] >> your instructor is exactly your [18:55] instructor's with you and your [18:56] instructor is learning the words that [18:58] you like the topics that you like the [19:00] stories that fit in the idea is that you [19:02] can put in stories that like almost the [19:05] same way AI would do because they [19:06] remember the stories like you know this [19:08] reminds me of something you said 3 weeks [19:10] ago and you're bring you're [19:11] personalizing it those five minutes and [19:13] so the person feels amazing it's it's [19:14] relevance personaliz [19:17] it's It's their piece, but yet it's the [19:18] same Torah. Exactly. Meaning, I'm not [19:20] watering it down and it's not fluff. And [19:22] everyone's getting I'm I'm in I insist, [19:24] you know, for the people I learn with [19:25] and I tell all the other teachers as [19:27] well, there's got to be words of Torah [19:29] that are shared. It's not just a story [19:30] of belief, believing in God. There's got [19:32] to be words like a nice py which is [19:34] great. There's a place for the words of [19:36] Torah are powerful. Sometimes it's just [19:37] the sometimes it's more. But you're [19:39] introducing the world of the yeshiva to [19:42] everybody [19:44] and you know the briskar and the and the [19:47] ram and the ram. I'm not going in in [19:50] chronological order here. [19:51] >> You're going to offend somebody if you [19:52] leave them out [19:52] >> but yeah I want to stop at some point [19:54] and bash of control. [laughter] But [19:55] you're bringing in you're bringing in [19:57] all of that stuff and you're sharing it [19:58] with everyone and the power of Torah and [20:00] and it's addictive. I mean just this [20:01] morning I started learning with someone [20:03] and he called me and two hours later I [20:05] just had in a meeting and I introduced [20:07] you to someone else. Can you learn with [20:08] that person also? Literally we learned [20:10] less than 5 minutes and it's it's [20:11] immediate. Wow. This feels great because [20:13] a Jewish soul wants to hear the Torah. [20:15] >> So I want to go back and you know it [20:18] kind of relates to my own curiosity [20:19] about your journey. As I said you know [20:21] somewhat jokingly we didn't just uh live [20:24] together we also studied Torah together. [20:28] We we studied what's known as Mus like [20:30] ethics together and we studied msos [20:33] yasharum which is the the pathways of [20:35] the upright written by Mosha latato [20:38] traditionally known by the acronym ram [20:40] kal and I have two major memories both [20:43] of which I think I've shared on 1840 but [20:46] you're here number one is the first day [20:48] that we learned together and my mis is [20:51] like so near and dear to my heart it's [20:54] like beat up like it's it's serious but [20:56] the first day. I came probably like 4 [21:00] minutes late, like a negligible time. [21:02] The fact that I was there, honestly, I [21:04] was expecting a parade. You I'm I'm [21:06] here, you know, like and you said like, [21:08] "Look, you got to either come on time or [21:10] don't come at all." And I was like, [21:11] "Okay, you're crazy. You're [laughter] [21:14] in you're a crazy person, but it also [21:17] says something." I said, "You know what? [21:18] I'm gonna come on time." And we plowed [21:21] through like in a very real way like [21:24] taking it like what if this is real like [21:26] imagine that imagine Judaism was a real [21:29] system for how to live and build your [21:31] life and it told me that that value of [21:33] time I had way back then but the other [21:35] thing I find fascinating and I've quoted [21:37] you about this before and you said [21:39] you're not going to mention the article [21:40] that I gave you 20 years ago. But if I [21:42] would have known that anything I shared [21:44] with you in that year in Shalim would be [21:45] like going through the annals of history [21:47] now recorded over and over again, I [21:49] would have been much more mindful of [21:50] what I shared with you. [21:51] >> We were in Israel the year 2002. It was [21:54] your second year in Shalom. It was my [21:55] first year. It was right after just uh [21:57] it was a year after September 11th and [22:00] you shared me an article from Morin Dow. [22:04] Um again this is not because you're a [22:06] lover of the New York Times. you own [22:08] ascribe to the last time I heard you [22:10] quote moring data first the first if [22:13] you're not but it's a very profound [22:15] article and one I've come back to over [22:16] and over again it's called mirror mirror [22:18] of the fall and in that article she's [22:20] actually talking about spiritual change [22:23] and she says our obsession this is the [22:25] line that you told me you're like I'm [22:26] not sure if I got it right and I spent [22:28] like three years trying to find the [22:30] article to see if you had it right and [22:31] you did our obsession with how much [22:34] we've changed is indicative of how much [22:37] we've stayed the name and it was a very [22:40] profound idea especially during a year [22:42] in Israel when we are so obsessed with [22:44] like have we changed yet? Have I am I [22:47] stark? Am I super from did I make it? Am [22:50] I there yet? And we took very different [22:54] paths like you took a path of like [22:56] really like a breakthrough like you [22:58] immersed yourself in the yeshiva [23:00] community and I was maybe like a little [23:02] more slower, rockier, bumpier, whatever [23:05] it was. We've both had our bumps in the [23:06] road, but one of my questions about your [23:09] journey, which I find so fascinating, is [23:13] you kind of leveled up in the type of [23:16] community that you affiliate with. You [23:18] affiliate with a much more Torah centric [23:20] community and the level of Torah [23:22] learning valued in that community is, I [23:26] would expect, at a much more serious or [23:28] in-depth level than what you are [23:30] transmitting. [23:32] How do you deal with the struggle of [23:34] like [23:36] most of the Torah that I'm delivering is [23:38] not really, you know, that highlevel [23:40] Torah that is prioritized and kind of [23:43] shaped in my community. What do you ever [23:46] find yourself almost like looking down [23:49] or belittling your own contemporary [23:53] work? How do you stay like still manage [23:58] to find the dignity and importance of [24:01] like introducing the basics when you [24:04] yourself were so drawn to a community [24:06] that's like we're way past the basics. [24:09] We're like we're in the major leagues. [24:10] were in the, you know, they're not [24:13] interested in like we're not focusing on [24:15] like the this stuff that should be [24:17] covered in elementary school and you [24:18] spend a lot of your day teaching Torah [24:22] that likely is covered, you know, in [24:24] more in the early years in the community [24:26] you affiliate with. So, how do you [24:27] manage that? How is your contemporary [24:29] affiliation [24:31] kind of affect the way that you view and [24:34] appreciate the work that you're doing, [24:36] the 300 club? [24:38] >> Great question. Um, but I will disagree [24:40] on on your kind of assumption of what [24:42] we're doing. Um, I'm a big believer in [24:45] when we a teacher teaches, any teacher [24:47] teaches, you got to put yourself in the [24:50] shoes of the person that's listening. [24:52] How are they going to receive that? And [24:54] then be selective in terms of the [24:55] content that you're presenting, but [24:57] there's plenty of highlevel mature [25:00] content that you can share with your [25:02] audience and each time each time is a [25:04] specific person. but in general the [25:06] audience that you're you're teaching and [25:07] they want to hear that. And so I I [25:10] disagree with that in the sense that I I [25:12] think and I keep this in the front of my [25:13] mind. Any day that I'm sharing a piece [25:15] of Torah with the group that I'm [25:17] learning with, I would be comfortable [25:20] and proud to share it with my next door [25:21] neighbor, [25:22] >> with my RV. [25:23] >> I'm so happy you said that. I I happen [25:25] to totally agree with you and it's one [25:28] of the commonalities of why I've been so [25:30] drawn not only to you, we're old [25:31] friends, but so drawn to the 300 club. [25:34] It's a genuinely brilliant idea. I have [25:36] like fantasies of like, oh my gosh, we [25:38] should merge and just like bring [25:40] >> That's great. [25:40] >> You're in charge of fundraising and [25:43] >> I thought you were going to be in [25:44] charge. [laughter] What you've done is [25:46] like created a new common language to [25:49] share the depth of Torah with a wider [25:52] audience. [25:53] >> So I want to Yeah, totally. I I again [25:55] these are like moments of flashes. I was [25:57] sitting in the Nural Colola Torah center [25:59] with a good friend of mine, a doctor yoh [26:02] and he said to me it's not fair that all [26:05] of the great Torah is rarely translated. [26:08] I mean art school's done an amazing job [26:09] but they're translating old books. [26:11] They're translating but none of the [26:12] current or shashivas the shum the lumbus [26:15] all of that never gets carried over. [26:17] Like who's translating that? We barely [26:18] can write it the first time in Hebrew. [26:20] We're not translating it. And so it was [26:22] like whoa what if we brought that over [26:24] and again it's nugget sized. It's 5 [26:26] minutes. But what we're sharing is [26:28] lumus. What we're sharing is makavah [26:30] mahar and things and this type of high [26:32] level. And it's the the point is is that [26:35] these people are sophisticated. They may [26:37] not have spent 10 years learning. They [26:38] may not have spent five. They may never [26:39] have spent any time in yeshiva, but [26:41] their minds are mature. They're [26:43] sophisticated. They're brilliant people. [26:45] These are adults and highly successful. [26:46] Not highly functioning, highly [26:47] successful. [26:48] >> Spoken down to [26:49] >> Exactly. So if you lift the bar not only [26:51] in in in in the content but in the [26:54] sources that you're sharing in the [26:55] presentation. I mean there are people [26:57] and I speak quickly because I'm doing [26:58] this 50 60 70 times a day. The guys will [27:00] tell me s speak as fast as you can and [27:03] I'm going on 2x and they're listening [27:05] because these are really smart people [27:07] and I can imagine sometimes they're [27:08] sitting there during you know a speech a [27:10] sermon a dart tora whatever they're [27:11] listening to and they're like we get [27:12] this give us the good stuff. And I find [27:15] that across the board regardless of the [27:17] background today I'm just you know I'm [27:18] not going to share the piece today but [27:19] today there was a pusk there was a rashi [27:21] there was a there was you know different [27:23] makuros that I'm sharing with people who [27:24] >> sources [27:25] >> sources sorry I was trying to be good [27:26] about that you know I remember early on [27:28] someone said to me who's rashi [27:31] >> and I said I looked up and I said my god [27:34] I have the opportunity to introduce the [27:37] most impactful person in my life and [27:39] >> and I get to teach somebody who Rashi is [27:41] >> not just the rashi but who Rashi is and [27:44] now I've learned with him for three [27:45] years and I use that and he knows who [27:46] Rashi is. It was like that introduction [27:48] was priceless. But if I never would have [27:51] said that so he would have lived his [27:52] whole life and never heard about Rashi. [27:54] He would have heard about Judaism. He [27:55] would have heard the state of Israel. He [27:56] would have heard about all the important [27:58] topics that are spoken about and the [27:59] nice ideas and the ethic ethics of [28:01] Judaism. [28:02] >> But he never met Rashi. [28:04] >> Like Rashi is raised [28:09] Rashi and we have to Jewish people. No, [28:11] the Ramban speaks about Rashi lowacious. [28:14] I think he says he's the first. He came [28:15] first. [28:16] >> Yeah, he's the f he's like the firstborn [28:18] of the commentaries. [28:18] >> Yeah, we have to introduce our [28:20] commentaries to to the people. [28:22] >> So, I I want to touch on something that [28:24] is slightly sensitive, but but we both [28:28] kind of struggle with this and and you [28:31] didn't mention it, but I'm curious. you [28:33] know these type of initiatives [28:36] um they require your life in your real [28:38] time and you have to fund raise for it. [28:42] How do you navigate just like on a very [28:44] practical sense? Do you charge [28:46] participants and like how have you been [28:48] managing with taking kind of a [28:51] one-on-one relationship and then like [28:54] trying to build and like fund raise [28:56] around it so it so you can have the [28:58] capacity to like grow where it needs to [29:00] grow. So, we don't charge participants. [29:03] Um, that was a internal debate and I've [29:05] spoken to a couple of, you know, [29:06] advisers and friends about it. My belief [29:08] is that Torah needs to be accessible to [29:10] everyone, especially the clientele we're [29:12] dealing with. Some people have had real [29:14] difficult experiences early on in life [29:16] with learning Torah. Some people have [29:18] never learned Torah and they're not [29:19] looking for another monthly [29:20] subscription. And so, to introduce them [29:22] to such a program and be like, "Yeah, [29:23] there's a monthly subscription. It's [29:25] only whatever or it's six months free [29:26] and then we'll get you." The taste [29:28] didn't didn't work for me. [29:29] >> I'm kind of with you. and and so Toro is [29:31] going to be Toro is going to be free for [29:33] everyone. Um we run based on donations. [29:36] It's difficult. Fundraising is not [29:38] something that I ever looked uh to do. [29:40] It's not something that's easy. You know [29:41] what's what you and I have in common? We [29:43] both grew up in communities and [29:45] surrounded by people who are the [29:47] philanthropists and not the askers. [29:49] >> That's a very tough I I I had the ve a [29:52] very hard time. I still do. I'm much [29:54] better at it because I think I I've [29:56] learned how to build the confidence in [29:58] my own mission. Um, but that's a very [30:01] tough switch. [30:02] >> It's very hard. Someone once said to me, [30:03] "Wouldn't you rather be the guy writing [30:05] the check than the guy asking for the [30:06] check?" And the answer is yes, I would [30:08] be. But at the same time, if you or I [30:10] were in a situation where, God forbid, [30:12] we had to collect money for a family [30:14] member or for an operation that someone, [30:16] we wouldn't think twice about it. And I [30:18] honestly look at the program that we're [30:20] running here as the same way. No one's [30:22] in physical danger, but there's a [30:24] spiritual danger for individuals, for [30:26] Jewish people talking about [30:28] >> if if I don't do this, if I don't bring [30:30] this, if we don't bring this, who's [30:32] going to do this? And we're going to [30:34] get, you know, get up to to Shmay. We're [30:36] going to get up to God after 120 years [30:37] on this earth and he's going to like, [30:39] why didn't you do this? And I'm like, [30:40] well, it was fundraising was tough. [30:42] Like, that's what was hard. [30:43] >> You know, your grandparents didn't have [30:45] food. [30:46] >> You got everything you need. And the [30:47] question is just making the right [30:48] introduction with the right person. And [30:50] that's what we have to do. And and I [30:52] believe I mean we're running [30:53] monthtomonth, but there's no doubt in my [30:55] mind when you see the the hear these [30:57] stories and you see these people, you [30:58] meet these people and one after the [31:00] other this is changing my life five [31:01] minutes a day. What's the price tag on [31:03] that? That's priceless. If I was the [31:05] richest guy in the world, I wouldn't let [31:06] anyone donate to this program. I would [31:07] take it myself. I'm reminded of [31:09] something someone told me early on from [31:11] Aaron Cutler who was fundraising for the [31:13] BMG, the Lakewood Yeshiva, which he [31:15] started. And he had a lot of difficulty [31:17] at the beginning. And someone that was [31:18] with him said, "How could it be that [31:19] there's yeshiva going around door to [31:21] door and you're getting pennies and [31:22] dollars?" Like, it's crazy. And he said, [31:24] "Because when we do that, we have the [31:26] opportunity to tell more people about [31:28] our yeshiva. And if we got one check, [31:30] then we'd be done." [31:31] >> He's like, "We'd be able to go." And he [31:33] quoted a profound idea. [31:34] >> He quoted Raan. Damban says, "There were [31:36] no signs to go to the temple when the [31:39] Jewish people had to go to the temple [31:40] from Israel. There was no ways, there [31:41] were no signs, there were no maps. How'd [31:42] you get there?" The prophet says, [31:46] Then the simple understanding means that [31:48] you'd had to go to see the God's [31:50] presence. The sha could also be your [31:52] neighbor. And the Ramban says you had to [31:54] knock on a guy's door and say, "Hey, I'm [31:55] lost. How do you get to Jerusalem?" And [31:57] you know, his wife would scream from the [31:58] back, "Hey, why aren't you going?" [32:00] "Okay, I'll go also." So they would walk [32:01] together and they'd walk together. And [32:02] so part of the process is meeting people [32:05] and telling them about what we're doing [32:06] and whether they're going to be your big [32:08] donor or not. They'll give you something [32:10] or not. now they know about the project [32:11] and maybe they're going to meet someone [32:12] tomorrow in their office or on the [32:14] street who who could use the Torah and [32:16] like you know what I couldn't give but [32:17] it's a great project and so the [32:18] opportunity to meet more people is an [32:21] opportunity to spread the project and I [32:22] think God makes it harder for great [32:24] organizations to do this so that we can [32:26] tell more people about what we're doing [32:28] >> that is the most powerful and meaningful [32:30] answer that I could have ever asked for [32:32] >> it's hard but it's true that's what I [32:33] want I just want it to fall down heaven [32:36] then you'll never meet with the next 20 [32:38] people and in those 20 meetings will be [32:39] another you know another connection [32:42] another [32:44] you get to the [32:45] >> you have to knock on your neighbor's [32:46] door [32:46] >> meeting you have to meet the you have to [32:48] meet the neighbors [32:49] >> so that's one thing that I wanted to ask [32:51] you about and really like my final [32:53] question because I love featuring this [32:55] like featuring people who are either [32:58] just beginning a journey in Jewish [33:00] learning or who are setting up the road [33:03] for the beginning of a journey in Jewish [33:05] learning. How has this program kind of [33:08] changed the way you look beyond the [33:11] Orthodox community? Number one, and how [33:14] has this program changed the way that [33:16] you look within our community? like you [33:18] you you have a you're kind of like [33:21] standing at this doorway where you're [33:24] dealing with a lot of adults who are [33:25] sincere and thoughtful and [33:27] sophisticated, but for a myriad of [33:29] reasons did not make daily Torah study a [33:33] consistent part of their life until they [33:35] met you. How has being involved in this [33:38] program changed your relationship almost [33:40] to like the Jewish people? Because like [33:43] you're dealing with a lot of neighbors. [33:44] you're dealing with a lot of people who [33:46] like come all the nooks and crannies, [33:49] you know, both in the kind of mainstream [33:51] communities kind of fell out after, but [33:53] also people like we're going to talk to [33:55] later in the episode in Arizona and like [33:58] you really are finding like the the [34:00] hidden gems of the Jewish world. I'm [34:02] curious what effect it's kind of taken [34:04] on you. [34:05] >> Well, it's a process. It's a journey. I [34:07] think early on um I had a meeting with a [34:09] good friend George Roar and he gave me a [34:11] point and he said, "Don't look at the [34:13] labels. don't focus so much on orthodox, [34:15] conservative and reform and everything [34:16] in between. And I think that was kind of [34:18] like set me on a certain path to begin [34:21] to take the person apart from the label. [34:24] That was the kind of the beginning. And [34:25] then there's a beautiful idea in the [34:27] torto [34:29] writes about the need for us to [34:32] sometimes look a look off take you know [34:36] zoom out from the negative. It's very [34:38] easy to find the negative or the [34:39] difference in someone else. What if you [34:41] look for a positive? What if you focus [34:42] on the positive? [34:43] >> What if the mission was you have to find [34:46] We're not leaving. [34:47] >> I'm not going to deal with the negative [34:48] heart. We disagree. There's a difference [34:49] of opinion. There's a difference of [34:51] practice. But I'm going to find [34:52] something about you that I love. And [34:54] when I find that thing, that's what I'm [34:55] going to think about. That's what I'm [34:56] going to focus on. And the most [34:58] incredible answer came out from that [35:00] process, which is the Jewish soul is the [35:02] most amazing thing. Like I don't even [35:03] have to look for what you do and how you [35:05] think and how you act. Your soul is on [35:07] fire because I'm going to see that in [35:09] the first three days that we're [35:10] learning. I'm saying the response that [35:11] you get the nishama the pintid whatever [35:14] you want to call it that that that's on [35:16] fire and that's what you're working with [35:19] you're working with souls you're you [35:20] know you're a doctor you know a doctor [35:22] is dealing with souls you're dealing [35:23] with the soul and then all of a sudden [35:25] the other stuff is like details I mean [35:26] I've asked a couple times people ask me [35:28] to discuss controversial topics and I [35:30] say same thing I said if we discuss this [35:32] topic you will like me less and maybe [35:34] I'll like you less and we're going to be [35:35] no better for it because the same issue [35:37] will exist when we finish talking about [35:39] it I'm not going to talk about it. I [35:40] want to go back to the sources, back to [35:42] the Torah, back to what unites us and [35:44] not what pulls us apart. And I remember [35:46] having a conversation with someone in my [35:47] neighborhood and and we were talking [35:48] about something similar and I said, [35:50] "It's very easy to dislike someone. It's [35:52] very easy to criticize someone. It's [35:53] much harder to like someone. But when [35:55] you begin to start liking someone, you [35:58] start to love them and it's very [35:59] difficult to criticize them." And it's [36:01] not that we don't have a difference of [36:02] opinion and I definitely know that I'm [36:04] different than my kusas, the people that [36:06] I'm learning with and they're different [36:07] than me in many different ways, but [36:08] we're all different and I'm not going to [36:10] focus on it. In the same way, I'm going [36:12] to be selective in terms of the content [36:13] that we are sharing with each other. I'm [36:15] selective to a certain extent with the [36:17] issues that we talk about. I'm not going [36:19] to talk about the issues that are going [36:20] to get us upset and that we have, you [36:21] know, there's a divide. Leave them [36:23] aside. Other people will figure those [36:24] out. [36:24] >> Yeah, there'll be other times. [36:25] >> In the meantime, let's talk Torah. And [36:27] that's what the conversation sounds [36:28] like. People say, "You smoo." Not [36:29] really. It's five minutes. It's it's a [36:31] hello. It's a good morning. It's a it's [36:33] it's you know, how are you? And then we [36:35] start learning. And that's really, I [36:36] think, what's been able to kind of to [36:38] bridge I don't want to say bridge the [36:40] gap, but connect souls. I mean, the [36:42] souls are connected and the [36:43] relationships are incredibly deep. And [36:45] I'll just, you know, I I'll end with a [36:47] story which I think, you know, really [36:48] captures a lot of of my experience here. [36:52] Personal story. I don't think I've [36:54] shared it yet. And now we're going to [36:55] share it with uh your massive audiences [36:57] listening to this. But but two years ago [36:58] on Simas Toro, it was the year after [37:00] October 7th. Um if those that you know [37:04] watch the Tora come out of the out of [37:06] the ark, it's interesting. There's [37:07] always a parade. We take out all the [37:09] Toros that we could find and we have [37:10] some beautiful ones with silver crowns [37:12] >> and then somehow we bring out the ones [37:15] that are have become invalid. They're [37:16] pul and they always have a little rope [37:18] tied around. [37:19] >> Yeah. A safer Torah that is not up to [37:22] standard that it can actually be read. [37:24] Maybe it's missing a letter or a word or [37:25] whatever reason. They tie a rope around [37:27] it almost like a gart around the safer. [37:30] >> So I was looking at it and you know I'm [37:31] being honest with myself and I'm [37:32] thinking to myself I really hope they [37:34] don't give me that one like I want to [37:35] get the nice one the fancy one [37:37] >> instead of thinking a little bit more [37:38] like why why do we bring them out? Why [37:40] do they come out? Why do we bring them [37:42] out and why did no one fix it from last [37:44] year? [37:44] >> Like if if we're not going to deal with [37:45] them so then like why are they here? But [37:47] yet they come out and lo and behold, you [37:49] know, it's it's a selection process and [37:50] I got I got the puzzle safer to I got [37:52] the one with the with the belt around it [37:54] and I was holding it and kind of [37:55] childishly, you know, wish I would have [37:57] got the other one. How fast can I switch [37:58] and convince someone to hold this? [38:00] >> Um, and then I took it and I was like [38:02] thinking to myself that there are so [38:05] many Jews that probably feel like that [38:07] that feel like they're neglected. Like I [38:09] wish someone would would teach the safer [38:12] to I'm the one that I'm the one that [38:14] >> no one wants to carry me. [38:15] >> No one wants to carry me. No one wants [38:16] to learn with me. No one thinks I even [38:18] care about learning. And if you'd give [38:20] them just a little bit of of a chance, [38:22] you know, who knows what which safet is [38:23] missing? One crown, one one little piece [38:26] of ink is smudged. Who knows what [38:28] they're missing? And all of a sudden, [38:29] it's we're back in business. And I took [38:31] the satra. I was crying, crying out, [38:33] crying and crying and crying. I was, [38:35] "What are you crying about?" I said, "I [38:36] couldn't believe there's so many Jews." [38:38] I was holding that safet. that say for [38:40] Torah represented every Jew that that [38:42] that that that's left in a situation [38:44] where they're part of the circle. [38:46] they're here, but like we could give [38:48] them so much more and we can enhance [38:50] pride in carrying them [38:51] >> and the next year they can come back and [38:53] they could feel like they're they're one [38:54] of everyone else and the difference is [38:56] so small. It's 5 minutes a day. Like [38:58] what are we doing with these people? And [39:00] the following year on sukus, sorry, it's [39:03] the same holiday. One of my karus has [39:05] called me up and he's just getting [39:06] involved and he tells me he was sitting [39:07] with a rabbi. I think it was this rabbi [39:09] and he's learning about the you know the [39:10] four things that we take on sukus and he [39:12] says I am a willow. I said what do you [39:14] mean you're a willow? He says cuz some [39:16] he was told some Jews have smell and [39:18] some Jews have taste and the willow the [39:20] arava has no smell and no taste. He said [39:22] I don't know anything. I don't I'm I'm a [39:23] willow. [39:24] >> And I was like whoa. And I said to him [39:26] on the spot, I said, "You know, we take [39:28] at the end of sukus on hosana, we take a [39:30] separate bunch of five willows, five [39:32] aravos on hosana and we take it and we [39:35] knock it. You think you could take this [39:36] thing that has no smell and no taste and [39:38] make it any worse? We made it worse. We [39:39] took off the leaves. We hit the leaves [39:41] come off." I said, "But you know what we [39:42] do with it afterwards? We throw it on [39:44] the top of the uncommon." [39:45] >> Wow. [39:46] >> Why? [39:47] >> I said because some Jews have smell, [39:49] some Jews have taste, some Jews have [39:50] both. But a Jew is a Jew is a Jew. And [39:54] that's what it is. No matter you can't [39:55] >> you also belong on top of the kesh [39:57] you're top you're not in the ar kesh [39:58] you're not say for coming in and out [40:00] you're on top of the ar kesh [40:02] >> and he tells me he ask when's sukus this [40:03] this this Jew this Jew just asked me [40:05] last night when's sukus this year I said [40:07] it's coming up soon I want to I want to [40:09] build a suka this year [40:10] >> wow [40:11] >> we [clears throat] don't know the effort [40:12] is so so small on our part what we can [40:15] share with Jews their nishama is waiting [40:18] for it and in in a second you can take [40:20] that safer that has a belt around it [40:22] that feels like it's outside that feel [40:23] like no one wants wants to engage with [40:24] it and all of a sudden it's dancing in [40:26] the middle of I always am looking for [40:28] book recommendations and specifically [40:30] I'm curious of what you've heard kind of [40:32] in this kind of work people who are just [40:35] beginning Jewish journeys but I'm [40:38] curious do you have go-to books to begin [40:42] learning journeys with either a book or [40:44] like where you actually I want to start [40:46] learning I don't know where what do you [40:48] usually tell them [40:49] >> that's a great question I wish I had a [40:50] great answer to that question um I like [40:52] the safer [40:54] for the tameos [40:56] and the when he describes the mitzvah. [40:59] >> We don't know who wrote it, but it's [41:00] like 14. [41:01] >> It could be a grandfather. It could be [41:02] it could be a great grandfather. That's [41:04] >> it's a 14th century work on all the 613 [41:06] commandments that goes through he wrote [41:08] it for his son to understand the corpus [41:11] of of all of uh kind of the commandments [41:14] and Jewish practice. And it's very sweet [41:16] because sometimes he like addresses his [41:17] son like bubble like like pay attention. [41:21] This is important right now. What I and [41:23] I love that what I love about the is [41:25] that the way we don't know who wrote it [41:27] maybe in the whatever it's a separate [41:29] conversation but but what I love about [41:32] it is that it gives very what I would [41:34] call um pragmat like the reasons are [41:39] things that you can like readily [41:40] understand doesn't rely on like the [41:44] superal heavens but like every mitzvah [41:47] has a clear emotion discipline practice [41:51] that's trying to bring into your life. [41:52] >> Right. So I I love the world of the [41:54] rishon the medieval commentaries. [41:56] They're often tur. Yeah. [41:57] >> They don't write a lot and they rarely [41:59] do we kind of see them explaining things [42:01] on our level which is exactly what you [42:02] said. And here you get a glimpse into [42:04] the or whomever wrote it. And he's [42:06] explaining the mitzvah which I think is [42:08] critical for an introduction to Judaism [42:10] which is we're not just here to perform. [42:12] The word which is what it's called is [42:14] both a reason and a flavor. [42:16] >> I love that. And all of a sudden when it [42:18] has a flavor there's a noam like King [42:21] David says in Psalms in chapter 27 [42:25] I want to bask in the pleasantness and [42:28] when you introduce Judaism as something [42:30] pleasant and understandable and [42:32] understandable and pleasant all of a [42:34] sudden it's something that we want to [42:35] engage in. we want to know more about. [42:36] >> I love that says that as well. Every [42:40] mitz and you see it on every page of [42:42] every action, every commitment that we [42:44] have, it has it should taste like [42:45] something. [42:46] >> It has taste. It's supposed to cultivate [42:49] and that taste is going to be something [42:50] very personal. Absolutely. But there's [42:52] also like you need to taste it. That's a [42:53] great recommendation. [42:54] >> I love I mean that's as a book the place [42:56] I like to start with people is just to [42:58] pull apart Modi the first line of the [43:00] sitter on so many levels. I mean if I [43:02] wrote a book I would write at least you [43:04] know a chapter on modi because there's [43:06] so much meaning there [43:07] >> and we all know which uh you quoted [43:10] before everything goes after the [43:11] beginning. Yeah. [43:12] >> And the first line, the first words, [43:13] what do we say when we get our soul back [43:15] in the morning? It's an [43:18] iss. [43:20] And there's so much there. So that's my [43:22] like introduction. When when I meet a [43:23] person for the first time, [43:24] >> starting point, you pull apart Modi. [43:26] >> I start earlier modi, which is a very [43:28] late addition to the sitter is based on [43:31] the third peric of the third chapter of [43:33] lamentations. That's where it gets its [43:36] language from. And I have a theory that [43:39] the third chapter of Lamentations is is [43:41] the introduction of modern [43:43] consciousness. [43:44] >> Wow. [43:44] >> For a different time, but I absolutely [43:46] love that. And Moda ani is that it's how [43:48] we literally begin our day. It's an [43:49] incredible incredible blessing. Um my [43:52] next question, if somebody gave you a [43:55] great deal of money and allowed you to [43:57] take a sbatical with no responsibilities [43:59] whatsoever, but you have to go back to [44:02] school. Somebody gave you a great deal [44:04] of money to go back to school and get a [44:05] PhD. What do you think the subject and [44:07] title of that dissertation would be? [44:09] >> Something sociological. Um I'm I'm [44:12] fascinated by how Judaism develops over [44:14] the years, the centuries. Um [44:16] [clears throat] [44:16] >> I don't have more more thoughts on that, [44:18] but the understand like the idea of [44:19] >> sociology of the Jewish people. I love [44:22] that. I love that. I love that. My final [44:24] question, I'm always curious about [44:25] people's sleep schedules. What time do [44:27] you go to sleep at night and what time [44:28] do you wake up in the morning? [44:29] >> This is bad because there going to be a [44:31] lot of people upset about this answer. [44:32] If my mother's still listening to the [44:33] episode, um [44:34] >> think she's going to make it to the end. [44:35] I feel she'll make it to the end. [44:36] >> I think she'll make it to the end. And [44:37] then I'm going to get a phone I'll know [44:38] when she hits the end cuz I'm going to [44:40] get a phone call. Uh I I don't have a [44:41] great sleep schedule. I'm usually not in [44:43] bed before [44:45] 1:32 and I'm up before 7. [44:48] >> Nuh-uh. So little. Oh, that's why you're [44:51] strung out. Okay, that makes sense. [44:53] >> Only one of us went gray. [laughter] [44:56] >> My dearest friend, Eton Epstein, for [44:58] real, this has been such an absolute [45:00] privilege and pleasure. And I mean this [45:01] from the bottom of my heart. continued [45:04] success, joy, confidence. I think we are [45:06] doing very similar work and I am hoping [45:10] not for either of our success but for [45:12] for the Jewish people that you see [45:14] incredible success fully realized um [45:17] incredibly soon. [45:18] >> Maine and the same to you. It was a [45:19] pleasure. [45:22] I'm just going to say it very briefly [45:23] now, but the idea that he said about the [45:26] pain of fundraising, about the [45:29] difficulty of having to go out and using [45:32] that as an opportunity to kind of like [45:35] share your message. I I found that so [45:38] profound and powerful and why I am so [45:42] excited to partner uh with my dear [45:44] friend Eton to share the message of [45:47] whether it's the 300 club, whether it's [45:49] the simplas Torah challenge, whether [45:50] it's partners in Torah, whether it's [45:52] Talma daily, whatever it is, there is a [45:55] special beauty in daily Torah study. [45:59] After talking to Eton, I said, "Look, I [46:01] want to talk to people who are in this [46:02] program who are taking those first steps [46:06] in Torah learning." Uh, and Eton was [46:08] kind of to connect me to two different [46:10] people. Now, we are going to hear from [46:13] somebody who is really incredible, has a [46:16] wonderful like powerful radio voice. I [46:19] really enjoyed speaking to them. Here is [46:20] our conversation with Richard or Rick [46:23] Weissberg. [46:26] What I want to talk about, and I'm so [46:28] grateful to have you today, Rick, is I [46:30] want to talk about what it actually [46:33] feels like and looks like to begin a [46:37] journey in learning later in life in [46:39] Torah learning. [46:41] >> Okay. [46:41] >> And I wonder if you could kind of begin [46:44] by giving me a snapshot of your uh [46:48] engagement with Jewish life up until [46:52] joining the 300 club. [46:54] >> Okay. Prior to joining 300 club, you [46:57] know, I would say my Jewish journey, my [47:01] journey through Judaism, [47:04] uh through engagement with the [47:06] community, [47:08] uh my religious experience, my cultural [47:11] experience, [47:13] was involved [47:15] both with community and temple, but [47:18] lacked what I would view as knowledge. [47:23] And I, you know, I could read Hebrew. I [47:25] didn't know what I was reading. Um, I [47:28] went to temple and felt the spirituality [47:31] of it, the religiosity of it. Uh, but I [47:35] didn't make all the connections. I [47:36] didn't have a full understanding [47:39] of who I was as a Jew. Nor did I fully [47:43] understand therefore what my identity [47:45] was, what my purpose was in relation to [47:50] Judaism. then also my life and then how [47:54] I was going to activate and was that [47:56] going to be an organic process or was it [48:00] actually going to be a path that I set [48:02] out on my own [48:05] um intentionally and [48:08] as life would happen uh unfortunately [48:13] uh you know we got to October 7th and [48:18] like most Jews not all but Like a lot of [48:21] Jews, that was ob obviously a seinal [48:23] moment in terms of who I was as a Jew [48:28] and what my identity meant and and what [48:32] my actions were going to be going [48:33] forward. So I I would say I set out [48:38] almost unintentionally on a three-prong [48:40] process. Um, the first of which was in [48:46] February of 2024 through the Jewish [48:49] United Fund of Chicago. I went on one of [48:51] the first trips to Israel. [48:53] >> Wow. [48:53] >> Yeah. At that point, you know, obviously [48:57] everything was so raw. so lacked [49:01] complete understanding, [49:03] you know, no real sense of why or how [49:07] this could possibly happen and struck [49:11] deeply into my soul. And so when I went [49:14] to Israel [49:16] with about I think there was about 15 of [49:18] us, both men and women, uh you know, we [49:22] experienced everything that you would [49:24] expect to experience. You went we went [49:26] to the kibutim faraza. We went to the [49:30] Nova festival. Uh we met with the kibutz [49:36] members who had been forced out of their [49:38] homes into Tel Aviv hotels. Uh we picked [49:43] oranges with the farmers who no longer [49:47] uh had the Thai workers obviously who [49:49] were slaughtered during all this and had [49:51] left the country. And we met soldiers. [49:56] And [49:58] I then fully understood [50:01] what in life was important to me and [50:04] what my mission was going to be going [50:07] forward. I did not intellectualize it at [50:11] that point. I simply felt it within my [50:13] soul. And so [50:16] what could I do in order to advance [50:21] this process of both internal healing of [50:26] creation of knowledge about who I was, [50:29] my identity, my purpose and what Judaism [50:33] actually meant to me. And the first part [50:36] of what I did was to become informed, to [50:38] become educated, to fully understand [50:41] what was going on in the ground. What [50:43] was what were the dynamics? How could [50:45] everything like this have happened? How [50:48] could [50:50] Jewish kids be protesting in encampments [50:54] against Israel and in support of Gaza in [50:58] the midst of this massive crisis? Where [51:00] was their identity? why did they not [51:03] have the same visceral need to, you [51:07] know, come to the aid of our community? [51:10] And so I ended up joining a number of [51:14] different organizations to educate [51:16] myself those, you know, and I won't I [51:19] don't really necessarily need to name [51:20] them all, but you know, one or two that [51:23] were particularly helpful to me on the [51:25] educational front um was the Washington [51:29] Institute, which is a think tank. I [51:31] became a trust. [51:32] >> Yes, sure. [51:33] >> And uh met some just terrific, fantastic [51:37] people. I've now also moved over to [51:39] supporting and also becoming extremely [51:41] interested in the foundation for the [51:43] defense of democracy, the FDD, which is [51:46] much more of an activist organization in [51:48] my opinion in terms of [51:50] >> sure trans uh putting their research [51:53] into action and information. Um and then [51:58] probably most importantly uh I joined [52:01] the Israel Economic Forum which is a [52:04] group of 500 and 500 plus individuals [52:08] throughout the world from 23 different [52:10] countries and might be more now. All of [52:12] whom initially intended to come together [52:15] to really spread Israel innovation, [52:19] technology and uh economic development [52:23] throughout the world. And then of course [52:24] October 7th happened and that [52:28] transitioned into [52:30] uh really looking at a number of other [52:33] different issues including anti-semitism [52:35] and relationships with other countries. [52:38] The organizations took has taken trips [52:40] to Azrajan [52:42] um you know in the midst of you know the [52:45] crisis. Uh we have been to Israel uh a [52:50] couple times. We go to Washington DC [52:54] uh on for conferences as well and [52:58] through this community I've met some of [53:00] the most incredible people that have [53:03] given me strength and given me [53:05] confidence that [53:08] you know we are going to succeed over [53:11] time in maintaining the strength of our [53:15] community. However, there was a a a big [53:18] hill to climb as we've now seen where [53:21] the snowball is rolling down that hill [53:23] in a rather dramatic fashion. And so I I [53:28] did everything I could to inform myself [53:30] to become educated to intellectualize [53:33] this, which to me is the equivalent of [53:38] studying Torah, the intellectual side. [53:41] The secondary side of that is the [53:45] spiritual side of that. So I now had to [53:49] figure out how I was going to go from [53:54] the education [53:56] of what was going on in the ground to [54:00] understanding who I was as a person. And [54:05] I didn't know organ I I didn't know in [54:08] an inorganic way who that person was. [54:13] And then [54:15] I was very fortunate to meet several [54:19] different people through a lot of [54:21] friends and family members who have [54:26] introduced me to various religious [54:30] leaders that I will say have changed my [54:33] life. I didn't know that I was going to [54:35] be studying Torah. I didn't know the [54:36] forms in which I was going to. I could [54:38] read Hebrew, as I said, but I didn't [54:40] fully embrace it. So, what was I going [54:43] to do? How I how was I going to approach [54:45] it? And again, as life would happen, it [54:49] just kind of happened organically. Um, I [54:52] spend four months a year in Chicago and [54:56] then I spent eight months a year in [54:58] Arizona. Well, the whole year I belonged [55:00] to a reformed synagogue, the Northshore [55:03] Congregation of Israel, which is in [55:05] Chicago, uh, with an amazing rabbi, [55:08] Rabbi Geffen. Um, but I'm only here for [55:12] four months, so I I spend a lot of time [55:14] in Arizona and I needed to become part [55:17] of that community. So when I was on a [55:19] conference in Washington DC [55:23] u with the Israel Economic Forum uh Levi [55:27] Shamto, Rabbi Levi Shamtove [55:30] sure [55:31] >> was one of the speakers you know kabad [55:34] and I'd never been to a kabad in my life [55:37] and by the way as reformed Jew my whole [55:39] life. All of this was very intimidating [55:42] to me. It shouldn't have [55:44] >> Yeah. I want to hear about that. Meaning [55:46] until this point growing up, most of [55:49] your interactions and even like family [55:51] connections were with other Jews with [55:53] similar backgrounds to your own or did [55:55] you have like, you know, that stray [55:57] Orthodox uncle? I did. [55:59] >> You know that a lot of [56:00] >> No, no, no strays in my my family. [56:02] [laughter] [56:04] We were No, we we we had no strays. We [56:07] There was always this underlying [56:10] respect for Judaism in my family, and [56:12] the communities that we lived in. It [56:15] wasn't a highly progressive Jewish [56:17] community, but it was a reformed [56:20] community. And but the intimidation that [56:23] comes with, you know, Orthodox Judaism, [56:27] you know, I if particularly when you're [56:29] younger and you you really don't fully [56:34] embrace or understand what's going on [56:36] and you're going to temple and you're [56:38] singing songs and you're learning and [56:40] it's, you know, mostly all in English [56:43] and it's interpreted for you and, you [56:47] know, that does not necessarily [56:51] in engender [56:53] the open-mindedness that comes with [56:56] looking at a hidic Jew, you know, and [57:00] wondering, God, how are how am I like [57:03] them? How, you know, so it's [57:05] intimidating to some point. In other [57:08] ways, it is extraordinarily respectful [57:13] and [57:15] incredibly impressive. [57:17] But it seems like a boundary that's hard [57:19] to cross over. [57:20] >> Exactly. It just feels like that's not [57:22] who I am. Like God bless you in your [57:25] lives, but this is not me. This is not [57:29] >> Exactly. But that's when you're young. [57:31] when you're so caught up in, you know, [57:34] the social norms, the the economic uh [57:39] environment that you're living in, the [57:41] community that you live in, the people [57:43] who you're friends with, you know, that [57:46] you know, it it it's it's a wonderful [57:49] life. It's beautiful, but um you're not [57:53] mature enough to embrace what's actually [57:56] happening in the world. So you tend to [57:58] either be judgmental or you don't care [58:01] and you also don't have purpose or [58:03] identity at that stage to fully [58:06] understand who you are. But when you get [58:08] older it is the most beautiful thing in [58:10] the world because you now have the [58:13] freedom to to to learn to choose to set [58:17] a path. And and by the way, that path [58:21] may just happen out of nowhere without [58:23] intent, but to keep an open mind to [58:26] allow yourself to learn and fully [58:28] embrace who you are. And so, [58:32] um, when I when I went to Rabbi Shmto [58:36] after this after a speech, I said to [58:38] him, I said, "Listen, I live in Paradise [58:41] Valley, Arizona, and I I actually went [58:43] to him and he sent me to his son." [58:46] So I was speaking to his son and his I [58:48] said to him I said [58:49] >> good intro to Judaism. You went to the [58:51] rabbi. He said [58:52] >> exactly. All right. So now already I'm [58:54] intimidated. But but anyway so um you [58:59] know I went to the son and I said I need [59:01] a rabbi in Arizona at the Kabat house. [59:06] Could you give me a name? Sure enough [59:08] pulls out his phone makes a phone call [59:11] to Schlommy Levat. Rabbi Schlommy Levat. [59:14] And the Levitoss basically I believe [59:16] have three Kabad homes houses in Arizona [59:20] and the all the family members I think [59:22] there's two brothers and the father and [59:27] so when I got back to Arizona I called [59:30] Schoy and I went over there and I said [59:33] you know I don't know enough about the [59:36] Torah. I don't know enough about who we [59:39] are. I don't know and fully understand [59:42] the path that this is supposed to take [59:44] me. I need to be educated. So I started [59:47] studying with Schlamy. [59:49] >> Where did you start? You know, if you [59:51] remember, if you can even recall, where [59:54] did you start with him? [59:55] >> From the beginning. [59:58] >> Genesis. Genesis. Genesis 1:1. [60:01] >> Genesis. Exactly. And I hate to use this [60:03] term. It wasn't Genesis for Dummies, but [60:05] it it was certainly a level that I [60:07] needed to start with in order to fully [60:10] understand the path. I didn't want to [60:12] start the book in the middle, [60:14] >> you know, even though the timing was [60:16] probably the middle, I didn't want to [60:18] start there. I wanted to fully I wanted [60:20] to understand structurally [60:23] what the Torah [60:24] >> what is Judaism? What what is this [60:26] >> Judaism? What is it and why is it? What [60:29] are these stories of Poram I've been [60:30] reading? What is Sukkot? What you know [60:33] what is al you know what what I [60:37] understood rash shana and I understood [60:40] Passover and I know we were repenting [60:42] and we had to you know [60:44] >> throw away all our sins and start over [60:46] again. I you know I you know I knew all [60:48] that. So, you know, I I I I sat with um [60:52] the rabbi on pretty much every Thursday [60:56] at noon uh at the Kabad House, studying [60:58] with him for an hour. And inevitably [61:02] um you know, you develop a friendship if [61:04] it works. And uh I have a very good [61:07] relationship. In fact, one of the most [61:08] amazing things that we did, the rabbi [61:12] came to me and said, "I'm thinking about [61:13] being bringing foreign hostage to [61:16] Arizona." uh he says, "But it's, you [61:18] know, there's financial considerations." [61:20] I said, "You know what? We'll get it [61:22] done. Don't even worry about it. I'll [61:23] work with you on this. Let's do the [61:26] math." It turned out that we could we [61:29] could basically make it work if we got [61:31] 250 people at uh at the hotel that we [61:35] rented. It turns out I got to spend a [61:39] day with Omar Shenpove and his father. [61:41] Wow. I picked him up at the airport. An [61:43] amazing human being. We ended up having [61:46] 525 [61:48] people show up at this event, which [61:51] which in Arizona is absolutely [61:54] spectacular. [61:56] So anyway, that's where that part of it [62:00] began. And then [62:04] um amazingly [62:06] uh I met via somebody you'll be speaking [62:09] to later, Susan. Susan had heard about [62:12] me, by the way. uh via the Omare [62:16] Shamtove that I was bringing him and she [62:17] wanted to sit down and talk to me. So, [62:19] we sat down and talk and then we became [62:20] fast friends. That's just an aside. But [62:24] she said, you know, you really have to [62:25] go meet um Rabbi Pinkis [62:29] at congregation Beth theila. And I go, [62:32] okay. And she goes, it is a modern [62:35] Orthodox shul. And I go, oh my god, [62:38] never been to one. [62:41] I although I shouldn't say that. I was [62:42] married Orthodox, believe it or not. [62:45] >> Wow. Okay. [62:46] >> Yes. [62:46] >> How come you were married Orthodox? Do [62:48] you remember? [62:49] >> My wife was raised Orthodox. [62:51] >> Fascinating. Interesting. Okay. [62:54] >> By a rabbi by the name of Y Rabbi Young [62:56] Rice up in New York. Uh [62:58] >> Oh, sure. Okay. [63:00] >> Yeah. I figured you [63:01] >> That's a brand name. [63:02] >> Yes, it's a brand name. Ex particularly [63:04] the Rison. Um Yes, exactly. So, um you [63:09] know, pretty uh pretty amazing [63:11] experience. So anyway, so I said, "Okay, [63:14] I'll go meet Rabbi Alouch." And so I [63:17] went into uh the temple. I called up [63:20] Rabbi Alouch. And you know, Rabbi Aloo [63:22] says, "Yeah, come on in." I came in [63:25] after five minutes and I kid you not, I [63:29] can honestly tell you that our [63:31] connection was as visceral as anything [63:36] that I I've experienced in Judaism. Uh [63:39] there was just this feel there was just [63:42] this love that we immediately had for [63:45] each other. And now all the mysticism of [63:49] who the hidic or the Orthodox Jews were [63:52] flew out the window. And all of a sudden [63:55] I was with a learned person who knew so [63:58] much more than I did, who I could relate [64:00] to in the most incredible of ways. And I [64:04] joined that temple instantaneously [64:06] without even getting to know the [64:08] congregation because I figured the [64:09] congregation was reflective of who the [64:12] leader of that institution was. [64:15] >> Beautiful. [64:15] >> And sure enough, I went to temple that [64:18] Saturday and of course I showed up at [64:21] 9:30. I don't what do I know, right? And [64:24] there's 20 guys there. And you know, it [64:29] was like that. I don't know if you [64:30] remember that FedEx commercial where the [64:33] a guy spoke a,000 miles an hour, got [64:36] everything that he wanted done in the in [64:38] that minute time, and then the [64:40] commercial ended. Well, I sat down and [64:42] it was like that. It was it was like a [64:44] machine gun of words flying out. No [64:47] English, all Hebrew. And but I sat there [64:52] and there was this rhythmic pentameter [64:54] that was going that just kind of hit me [64:58] and then I [64:59] >> cadence a rhythm. [65:00] >> A cadence and a rhythm. I'm a music guy [65:02] and so [65:05] it it it hit me. It it like I I felt [65:09] something. I didn't know what was going [65:10] on. I could read what they were were [65:12] reading until they were like three [65:14] paragraphs ahead of me. It's [65:16] >> like jumping onto a moving treadmill. [65:18] That's what's like it's really You're [65:20] it's go it's at top speed and you're [65:22] just jumping on and it doesn't slow down [65:24] for you. [65:25] >> And I'm running at I'm running at 4.5 [65:27] miles and they're running at 7.6. [65:30] >> Exactly. [65:30] >> And I can't catch up, but I don't care. [65:33] >> And all the people who were there at [65:35] that time came up to me. They they this [65:39] is the page that we're on. It was one of [65:41] the most welcoming communities. And as [65:43] the as the the day as the morning went [65:46] on [65:49] about I don't know I I'm guessingund [65:53] the place was packed women on one side [65:56] men on another there was probably 150 [65:59] people on a Saturday morning in a in a [66:02] modern Orthodox temple in Phoenix [66:04] Arizona where there's a 100,000 Jews [66:07] that are desperately spread out [66:09] throughout the community showing up at [66:11] this place. I'm shivering now thinking [66:13] about it because it it it it was just [66:16] such a moment of joy and happiness for [66:19] me that I couldn't wait till next [66:22] Saturday and then I couldn't wait till [66:25] the Saturday after that and then I could [66:28] not wait until Shabbat dinner which I [66:31] went over to at at Rabbi Alia's home [66:33] where he had 40 people of course 12 were [66:36] his family and and the balance were [66:39] members of the community people who came [66:41] in from Israel [66:43] And then the rabbi came to me and he [66:46] said, "I'd like to study with you." And [66:48] I go, "Me?" [66:51] I [laughter] mean, he goes, "Yeah, you." [66:53] And so I go, "Well, I'm an early riser." [66:58] And he said, "Well, so am I." So we [67:01] started studying every Tuesday morning [67:03] at 4:45 in the morning at my house. [67:05] >> Wow. [67:06] >> He comes to He comes to my house when [67:08] I'm in Arizona. The rabbi does. every [67:10] Tuesday morning at 4:45 a.m. And [67:16] he asked me what I wanted to study. I [67:17] said, "Well, I got the Torah." [67:19] >> About to ask you, you started with [67:21] Genesis, so you kind of have that [67:22] moving. Where did you start with Rabbi [67:25] Alouch? [67:25] >> So, my view was that studying with Rabbi [67:31] Schwamy is sort of the core basics of [67:34] learning about the Torah. It's about the [67:38] the the the whole process, the whole [67:42] evolution, the uh the rules, the laws, [67:46] the morality, the the the the conceptual [67:50] view of what the Torah is. So, I said to [67:53] Rabbi Alusha, I'd like to study the [67:55] mysticism side of the equation. I'd like [67:57] to I want to learn that because frankly, [68:01] you know, for me, I don't know if this [68:03] analogy really holds well or not. The [68:07] Torah is classical music. The mysticism [68:10] is jazz. [68:13] >> I love that. I love that. [68:15] >> So, I get the improvisation through the [68:17] mysticism, which is my inner soul [68:22] understanding and embracing what the [68:25] Torah means to me. But I get the basics [68:27] of it all. I get the basics of it all by [68:31] studying the actual Torah. [68:34] And I'm doing this all one on-one with [68:38] the most incredible people. I mean, some [68:41] of the most brilliant. I I would not [68:43] have somebody [68:44] Let me put it this way. I want a [68:47] professional helping me through this [68:50] process. I'm not giving my investment [68:52] dollars to some random guy off the [68:55] street. I'm going to find the best [68:56] people I can. I just somehow found them [68:59] in my opinion in this case. And then so [69:02] the rabbi Alouch and I spend, you know, [69:06] once a week I go to temple now every [69:08] Saturday morning. Shocker. Um and um [69:14] >> do you know what text of mysticism you [69:16] study with him? [69:16] >> What's that? Well, so let me explain how [69:19] the mysticism works for us. We sit down. [69:22] I serve the rabbi a cup of coffee. I [69:25] have a cup of coffee. It's 4:45 in the [69:27] morning. We sit down and it all just [69:29] begins. [69:31] And [69:32] we share our relationship. We share our [69:36] views on the world. We open up our minds [69:40] to our each other's visions. [69:44] We uh project our views toward each [69:47] other. And then in between it all comes [69:51] the mysticism. I I can't tell you [69:54] exactly what part of it all and where in [69:56] the book and but I know I I know just by [70:01] the names he's throwing out there. I [70:03] mean, that's the thing with all this. [70:04] >> But Rick, I want to say something. I [70:06] think that the fact that you're able to [70:08] sit in conversation with another Jew [70:12] talking about how you understand the [70:14] world. That's not a break from [70:17] mysticism. That might be its ultimate [70:19] expression, which is so beautiful. And [70:21] that's my point is that's how I view it. [70:24] That's where the the the my [70:28] spirituality, my soul, my my heart. [70:32] That's and and and my freedom to express [70:34] myself comes out. And the beauty of it [70:37] is I get that in return from one of the [70:40] most beautiful human beings I know. And [70:43] so it is just amazing. And then a good [70:47] good good friend of mine um a guy by the [70:50] name of Carrie Cooper um who's from [70:53] Chicago um longtime friend uh he and I [70:57] had been talking a lot about the things [70:59] that we're doing that about Israel about [71:02] our Judaism etc. He goes, "Rick, you [71:05] have to join the 300 club." [71:07] >> He's the one who introduces you this [71:09] concept of the 300 [71:12] club. Yeah. Explain [71:15] what was the pitch that he gave you. [71:17] Explain what the 300 club like how he [71:19] pitched that to you. What it is? [71:21] >> He said first of all, Rabbi Eton [71:25] Rabbi Eton Epstein Epstein is probably [71:29] one of the most amazing people he's ever [71:32] met in his life. And if you get nothing [71:35] other than a relationship from him, [71:38] that'll be good enough. And Carrie [71:40] actually has had a more religious [71:42] background than I have over time. So [71:43] when he tells me this, I think there's [71:45] veracity to it. I know there is. I also [71:47] trust him implicitly. He he said um I [71:52] have learned more from the rabbi [71:54] uh over the last two months than I have [71:58] my entire life in Judaism. [72:01] And so I'm like, okay, I'm, you know, [72:06] I'm open. [72:07] >> Let's give it a shot. Let's give it a [72:08] shot. So, I get off the phone with [72:11] Carrie and I immediately call the rabbi [72:13] and again instantly it's like, you know, [72:17] Jews find Jews and when they find them, [72:20] it's like the most amazing thing in the [72:22] world. That's why having 500 members of [72:25] a community in the Israeli Economic [72:26] Forum is incredible. being a member of a [72:29] congregation where there's 850 families, [72:33] your connection is instantaneous as long [72:35] as you're on the same page, which, you [72:38] know, somehow I found that I found the [72:40] same page. So, I I spoke to the rabbi [72:42] and, you know, I could tell immediately [72:46] uh the connection that we had and we hit [72:48] it off right away. So, here I am in [72:50] Arizona still when this started and he's [72:53] in New York, three-hour difference at [72:54] the time. And he says, "All right, I [72:56] want to do it every day with you [72:57] starting to tomorrow." The 300 club is [73:01] what it sounds like. It's 300 [73:03] >> 300 seconds. [73:05] >> 300 seconds. Five minutes of Torah [73:07] study. Um either based on a para or a [73:11] subject matter that the uh the rabbi is [73:14] extraordinarily interested in. Um, and [73:18] from from the first [73:22] meeting to today, [73:25] I I think I've missed twice and I I [73:28] think we're approaching a year. [73:31] >> Wow. [73:32] >> So, let me put it this way. I'm I I [73:34] would say today I'm in the 300 300 club. [73:37] I think we've had we've had probably 300 [73:40] meetings for 300 seconds. Of course, [73:43] with me, as you can probably tell, they [73:45] should have called it the 3000 Club, but [73:48] but you know, that that's another story. [73:51] So the so the rabbi and I speak every [73:53] morning [73:55] uh at in Chicago at 8:45 a.m. and he's [73:59] usually extraordinarily prompt and he [74:03] will he will go over something he's that [74:07] he's either interested in for that day [74:09] or you know that's relevant to where we [74:12] are in the Torah and the para for the [74:14] week and or the holiday that we're like [74:18] right now we're studying alul which I [74:20] had no idea what the heck al was frankly [74:23] >> no I and now don't ask me to explain it [74:27] but I at it. I am now in the renewal [74:30] stage of preparing for Russia Shana and [74:33] I love it. [74:34] >> And I'm like, [74:35] >> if somebody heard me say that a year [74:37] ago, [74:38] >> they they they'd fall off their chair. [74:40] But but anyway, so I can freely tell you [74:44] I'm madly in love with uh with Rabbi [74:48] Eton. Uh his preparation is [74:51] extraordinary. His care for others is [74:55] absolutely amazing and terrific. His [74:58] knowledge base is as good as any I've [75:01] experienced. His messaging is not simply [75:05] about what's in the Torah. It all [75:08] relates. Inevitably, [75:11] whatever we learn that day, I can cite [75:14] something that happened the day before [75:17] or the week before or with my children [75:19] or with my family over my my history. [75:23] And so now I get the structural Torah, [75:29] I get the mysticism, and I get [75:33] structural Torah with free form [75:36] conversation that relates to my life. [75:40] >> Rick, this is an absolutely beautiful [75:42] story and I really only have two [75:45] questions for you that I I kind of want [75:49] you to help. You know, we have a very, [75:51] thank God, one of the things I'm most [75:52] proud of is how diverse our listeners [75:55] are. Many of our listeners probably [75:58] identify more with Rick from [76:01] pre-occtober 7th. And I'm sure that [76:04] there are many listeners who only [76:06] identify with the direction that you're [76:08] headed. And I want you to spend a moment [76:10] talking to each audience. And I want to [76:12] ask the following question. [76:15] What are the barriers for, you know, [76:18] that earlier version of yourself [76:21] pre-occtober 7th? You know, you spoke [76:23] about maturity of being able to see the [76:25] other. Is there anything that you could [76:28] say now to other Jews who maybe are just [76:33] starting to see past the fog [76:36] and to encourage to to not fall into the [76:40] same barriers to be able to really take [76:42] control of their own Jewish education [76:44] and trajectory, letting go of some [76:47] misconceptions maybe about Orthodox Jews [76:50] or other types of Jews or serious Torah [76:53] study. I want to know what you would [76:56] tell your more kind of classical [77:00] traditional reformed Jew. And then [77:02] afterwards, [77:04] I want to hear what you would tell the [77:07] Orthodox community, those who kind of [77:10] were raised within this system of rich [77:12] education who have so much I think to [77:15] offer beyond our own community. But what [77:19] are some of the mistakes or barriers or [77:22] you know even very innocent faux pawas [77:26] that we can make within our community [77:29] when we are interacting with those who [77:31] don't share that rich background. I [77:34] would love if you would take a moment [77:36] and speak to each of these communities. [77:38] Could you see both and interact with [77:40] both so deeply? [77:42] >> Cleanse your timeline. [77:45] That's the first thing I would tell you. [77:46] Cleanse your timeline. [77:49] Stop listening to the rhetoric. Stop [77:53] spending your time in front of the [77:56] negativity. Open your mind and be free. [78:00] Do not allow your previous uh [78:03] misconceptions because that's what they [78:05] are of who you're a Jew. That's all you [78:09] need to know. You're a Jew whether [78:11] you're an Orthodox Jew. You're a Jew [78:13] whether you're a reconstructionist Jew. [78:16] You're a Jew. Whether you're a reformed [78:18] or conservative Jew, you're a Jew. But [78:21] what you don't what a lot of Jews prior [78:25] to October 7th do not have [78:29] is identity. They don't f and I and by [78:34] the way I don't prostilize about any of [78:36] this. The main reason why I did this, I [78:40] went onto this journey was number one, [78:43] it was instinctive and it was intuitive [78:47] and it was because of the trauma that we [78:53] were going through as a people and the [78:55] world was going through. And I got [78:57] caught up in it all just like everybody [78:59] else and all the negativity and you know [79:02] all the all the podcast stations that [79:04] were you know going on and the the [79:08] protesting and everything else. And the [79:11] thing is is is that if you don't [79:15] understand [79:16] the risk that we face at this stage of [79:20] our lives, [79:22] you can never adjust or change to get [79:25] better. you'll simply fall into the [79:27] crowd theory of the that negativity. So [79:31] the first thing I would tell is you [79:32] cleanse your timeline. Instead of [79:35] instead of seeing all those people you [79:38] like music, [79:39] put in an artist in your timeline. Put [79:42] in sports in your timeline. Stop [79:44] listening. Stop looking and learn. [79:47] That's what I would tell you. And and by [79:49] the way, so what I said before just be [79:52] before I started this was, you know, I [79:55] did this intuitively and instinctively, [79:57] but I also did it for one big purpose. I [80:00] don't like to shove anything down my [80:02] children's throats. [80:04] You know, like addiction, you can't tell [80:07] somebody who's addicted to just stop, [80:09] right? That doesn't do it. They have to [80:11] be able to do it on their own. And it's [80:14] as simple as that. You know the [80:17] correlary to that is I can't tell my [80:20] children to be religious but I certainly [80:23] can be an example to them. I certainly [80:26] can be an example to them. I can go to [80:28] temple. I can learn. They see what's [80:30] going on. They know what's happening. I [80:33] don't have to tell them. I don't have [80:35] to, you know, put it in front of their [80:37] face and tell them to do that. And by [80:38] the way, they're 40 and 37. That's [80:40] ineffective any way you look at it. But [80:43] when they see it, my daughter joined a [80:45] temple. She put her kids through Hebrew [80:47] school. [80:49] Just open your mind up to the [80:51] possibility that there's more to life [80:54] than you know [80:56] and the hurdles of understanding who you [81:00] are and and and the process that you [81:03] have to go through. It is is such a [81:07] phenomenal journey of self-discovery [81:11] and and belief and faith and love and [81:16] God. You know people say ah why do you [81:19] believe in God and I say because I do [81:23] and I can say that now because I have I [81:29] now understand the history of our [81:31] people. I realize the beauty of the [81:34] community. I now have identity and [81:37] purpose. I now understand guardrails [81:39] because there's a lot of guardrails in [81:41] the Torah. You [81:42] >> Oh, yeah. [81:43] >> I understand morality better than I [81:46] have. I understand bravery. Bra uh [81:48] bravery. I understand God, family, [81:51] strength, love, knowledge. [81:54] And extraordinarily important to me is [81:59] philanthropy. [82:00] I understand the need for sedaka for [82:04] charitable giving. I understand why I [82:06] give to what I give. I understand [82:10] unselfishly. [82:12] And I know when people say that that's [82:13] like to tell you the truth, but I I I [82:16] understand with humility why I do it. I [82:19] understand why I should hide in the [82:22] sukout [82:23] while doing good outside and not wanting [82:27] credit for it, but just having the the [82:30] the belief and beauty of helping our [82:32] community. So our comm for both parts of [82:35] the community, the reformed side that [82:37] has not embraced Judaism except during [82:41] the holidays to the orthodox that do it [82:43] every day, every morning, pray however [82:46] many times a day, say the shama twice. [82:50] They should understand [82:52] that there is this amazing group of [82:55] people out there who aren't going to be [82:57] quite like them but have the same [82:59] respect for the religion that the hidic [83:02] do or the Orthodox Jew. And so this is [83:06] too important a period of time in in the [83:10] history of the Jewish people. We are [83:12] living history. They're going to be [83:14] there a thousand years from now. This [83:16] period of time is going [83:18] >> this is it. It's going to be just like [83:20] the other thousand or the 2,000 and the [83:23] 3000. And if you remind yourself from [83:26] that and you've read the history of it [83:28] all, which you get through the Torah, [83:30] right? Where else you going to get it? I [83:32] don't know. I mean, people have written [83:34] about it. I guess you could do the [83:35] Talmet, too, right? I know. Uh but you [83:38] know the the I if if you read through [83:41] that and you don't come away thinking [83:43] about how important Judaism is in your [83:46] life, then you know you're still a Jew, [83:50] but you're missing out in one of the [83:52] great opportunities to meet people who [83:55] are not quite like you, but share the ex [83:58] the exact same values, morals, and [84:01] standards of living life for family, [84:03] friends, love, community, and God. And I [84:07] think if both of those groups don't [84:09] understand and can't get over the hurdle [84:12] of coming together and loving each [84:14] other, they're the ones missing out. And [84:17] so that's what I would tell them. [84:20] >> Rick, this has been such a privilege to [84:22] hear from you. I mean, a you have such [84:24] an eloquence and as I said the first [84:26] time we spoke over the phone, I could [84:28] listen to you speak all day. You have a [84:30] voice for radio. I mean, [84:32] >> I'm telling you, [84:33] >> I got the face for radio. I know. I'm so [84:36] moved by what you said and the [84:38] excitement and the honesty of your [84:40] journey. Uh I hope it is as contagious [84:43] as it was for me to all of our listeners [84:46] because really now is the time to seize [84:48] control not just of your history but of [84:52] your present and that's what you did. [84:53] You allowed history to give you the [84:56] confidence to seize control of the [84:58] present and I am so grateful for you to [85:01] taking the time to speak with us today. [85:03] So thank you so much Rick. Thank you, [85:05] David. I really appreciate it [music] [85:09] >> to understand how different communities [85:12] are initiated towards Torah study of [85:14] making the case for Torah study and [85:17] really like having the confidence even [85:19] for those who grew up where this is a [85:21] part of your life. It gives you [85:24] confidence being reminded of how novel
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