Transcript [00:00] Hello everyone. I'm Thea Weaselier, [00:03] director of public programs at 70 Faces [00:05] Media, the parent company of the New [00:07] York Jewish Week. Tonight, we're [00:09] delighted to welcome a claimed Israeli [00:11] author and screenwriter Noah Yedlin. [00:14] We're going to hear about Noah's novel [00:16] House Arrest, which tells the story of a [00:18] secular left-leaning Jerusalem family [00:21] and is set against the decline of the [00:23] Israeli left in the 200 2000s and [00:27] influenced by the events of October 7th. [00:30] Noah will be in conversation with Andrew [00:32] Silo Carroll, editor at large of the New [00:34] York Jewish Week. As many may know, our [00:38] partner U.J JA is committed to the [00:39] promise of a Jewish and democratic state [00:41] of Israel that is vibrant and inclusive [00:44] now and always. They're working with [00:47] Israelis to advance social and economic [00:50] mobility in Israel among all populations [00:53] so everyone can take part in the promise [00:55] of the Startup Nation. Their funding [00:58] supports critical services for victims [01:00] of terror, Holocaust survivors, [01:03] impoverished children, and people on the [01:05] margins. They're also funding and even [01:08] operating programs that promote [01:10] inclusion and understanding between [01:12] Israelis of all ethnic and religious [01:14] backgrounds. And since October 7th, U.J [01:18] has provided more than $366 million to [01:22] support the physical, emotional, and [01:24] economic healing needed to carry Israel [01:26] forward. To learn more about UG's work [01:29] in Israel, please visit the link in the [01:32] chat. With that, we turn to Noah and [01:35] Andy to start our program. Enjoy. [01:42] >> Thank you so much, Thea. Um, and [01:44] welcome. It is my pleasure really to [01:47] welcome Noah Yedlin, uh, one of Israel's [01:50] most acclaimed contemporary novelists. [01:52] Her fiction combines sharp social [01:55] observation, dark humor, and a [01:57] wonderfully acute understanding of the [02:00] ways people behave, especially in [02:02] families, especially when they're under [02:04] pressure. Uh, Noah is the author of [02:07] several bestselling novels, including [02:09] Stockholm, which she adapted into an [02:11] award-winning Israeli television series, [02:14] and People Like Us. She's a recipient of [02:16] Israel's prestigious Sepier Prize, often [02:19] compared to the Booker Prize as well as [02:22] the Prime Minister's Prize for Hebrew [02:24] Literature. We're here to talk about [02:26] House Arrest, which has an interesting [02:28] history. It's just arrived in English, [02:31] translated by Shira Atik and Evan [02:33] Fallenberg and published by New Vessel [02:36] Press. The book actually has a longer [02:39] history. It was first published in [02:41] Hebrew in 2013 and won the Sepier Prize [02:44] that year. So, we're going to talk a [02:46] little about a novel that has already [02:48] had quite a life in Israel and then, as [02:51] we'll discuss, has perhaps acquired some [02:54] unexpected resonance in the years since [02:56] it was written. So, Noah, welcome to uh [03:01] our folio. And I understand you're in [03:03] New York, so welcome to the United [03:04] States. [03:05] >> Thank you for having me. I'm really glad [03:08] to be here. [03:09] >> It is a pleasure. Your book is so [03:11] interesting, especially I promise we [03:13] wouldn't ask your predictions or [03:15] anything about the Israeli elections, [03:17] but in the light of so much upheaval in [03:20] Israel. You're looking back in the early [03:22] 2000s to a uh maybe a little different [03:25] time in Israeli politics. Um tell us a [03:28] little bit about the family dynamic in [03:31] this um in this novel and why it was [03:34] important for you to try to capture [03:35] that. [03:37] Well, um maybe I'll tell a little bit [03:41] what the book is about and how I came to [03:43] write it. And uh [03:46] >> well, House Rest tells the story of a [03:49] family from Jerusalem. They are a [03:51] secular family, [03:53] um a middle upper class family. They're [03:56] well off. The mother is a is a very well [04:00] educated woman. and she's a professor of [04:02] Israeli history in the Hebrew University [04:05] in Jerusalem. The father is a business [04:07] person. They're both in their late 60s. [04:11] And they're parents of uh three grownup [04:14] children. [04:15] And the the novel opens, it's there is [04:18] no need for a spoiler alert. Uh it [04:22] really opens uh with an expose published [04:25] in the newspaper claiming that this uh [04:29] Elishva, the family, the this mother, [04:32] this big matriarch [04:35] um is accused of embezzling over 3 [04:39] million shekels from the funds of this [04:43] uh peace institution where she works as [04:46] a vice president. [04:49] And uh the novel is told entirely from [04:52] the point of view of her middle son [04:53] Barack who is 14, newly separated, [04:57] struggling to find his position in [04:59] academia. [05:01] Um and this this story um I'm going to [05:07] I'm going to tell a little bit about the [05:09] background and how I came to write it [05:11] and then maybe we'll talk about the [05:12] social or the political implications. [05:16] Um the idea actually came to me quite a [05:20] few years ago when there was a huge [05:23] scandal even in Israeli uh terms. [05:28] um when the Israeli when the then [05:30] Israeli president Mushek Katav was [05:34] accused of rape and multiple multiple [05:37] counts of sexual misconduct involving [05:41] his subordinates, women who worked with [05:43] him at the president chambers. [05:46] And this was naturally covered [05:49] extensively by the media. And I remember [05:52] sitting at my at my home watching uh [05:56] Moshe Katav and his wife walking through [05:58] the courthouse and back to their home. [06:01] And I couldn't help but wonder what was [06:03] going through his wife's mind. [06:06] And then I thought, well, this wife of [06:09] his, if worst comes to worse, she's [06:12] always free to divorce him. She can [06:15] never speak to him again. She can go [06:17] public and portray herself as the [06:19] victim, which he may well be. But what [06:22] about his grown-up children? His grown [06:25] up up children are also free to [06:27] disconnect from him. But this person's [06:30] blood will forever run through their [06:34] bloodstream [06:35] and in a sense they are forever [06:38] connected to this father of theirs. And [06:41] what does it say about you? if anything [06:43] if your parent is accused of something [06:46] disgusting and horrible. And then I [06:49] thought, well, what about what happens [06:51] if the parent if the parent who is [06:54] accused of something terrible is not [06:57] your father but your mother? [06:59] >> Because I feel that we've seen our fair [07:01] share of embezzling fathers. And I feel [07:04] I feel that we've seen our fair share of [07:07] fathers actually doing all crimes in the [07:10] book, but we haven't seen that many [07:13] embezzling mothers. And I felt that um [07:18] maybe the feminist thing to do is to let [07:21] women if women are allowed to do [07:23] anything, they should be allowed to be [07:25] villains in novels as well, shouldn't [07:27] they? So I felt that the relationship [07:30] between a grown-up son, a 40-year-old [07:32] son, and his mother, uh, as he's trying [07:36] to wrap his mind around the fact that [07:39] this mother of his, uh, who writes [07:43] articles about peace for the New York [07:46] Times is suddenly called a thief. Um, so [07:51] this was the this was the birth of the [07:54] novel. Um, [07:57] and your question was you you you [08:02] actually asked about uh how this relates [08:05] to the uh political and social [08:09] >> I'll ask it again. So the Fogals names [08:11] the family name is Fogle. [08:13] >> They're not just a family. They're a [08:15] recognizable Israelis type really, [08:18] right? Educated Ashkanazi, affluent, [08:22] culturally connected, politically [08:24] liberal. like you said, she works for a [08:25] peace institute and they're accustomed [08:28] to thinking themselves as being on the [08:31] right side of history. How consciously [08:33] were you writing about this particular [08:36] Israeli class and political setting? [08:41] >> You know, people often ask me what is [08:44] the message of the book? I think this is [08:46] the question I get mo asked the most [08:49] about all of my novels, not only about [08:51] this one. And I feel that um a message [08:57] means an exclamation point. [09:00] It means putting an exclamation point [09:02] and saying something and then ending by [09:05] an ex exclamation point. Whereas [09:08] literature is the exact opposite. [09:12] Literature is the art of posing question [09:15] marks. It's the art of decomposing. [09:19] So my um interest always lies in asking [09:26] questions about everything that is uh [09:32] about not taking anything for granted [09:35] and about asking questions about [09:37] everything that looks as if it's okay as [09:40] if there is not a lot to say about it. [09:44] Um and my initial motivation is always [09:50] to go to the private story. It always to [09:55] find the story of a particular human [09:58] being of one person, one particular [10:01] person. It has to be a one-of-a-kind [10:03] person. Uh it's not a cliche, not a [10:06] stereotype, not anything. It's just a [10:09] person in the universe. and to ask [10:12] questions about this person's life and [10:15] then I assume that if the story that I [10:18] build will be interesting enough then um [10:23] there will be other layers so [10:26] sociological layers political layers [10:30] that will arise from this personal story [10:34] and have some more meaning to it. Um, [10:39] this uh social class that you're [10:41] referring to, this Ashkanazi middle [10:44] upper class is uh a class that I know [10:47] very well because I'm part of it. Uh I [10:51] am no better than anyone that I write [10:54] about, not in this book and not in any [10:58] any of my other books. uh but I feel [11:01] that I know this uh social group [11:04] intimately [11:05] uh which is essential uh in order for me [11:08] to write about it and to ask questions [11:11] about it and the questions that I ask [11:15] are not judgmental [11:17] these people it's true that they these [11:19] people are often uh they are they [11:23] perceive themselves as being in the on [11:25] the right side of history for sure and [11:28] let's be honest They often believe that [11:31] they are better than others. [11:34] It is true. [11:36] >> I don't think it's such a huge crime. I [11:38] think many people think that they are [11:40] better than others. It's okay. And as I [11:43] ask my literary questions, I don't uh [11:47] judge them for their thoughts or their [11:50] self perception. [11:52] I try to [11:55] um to sympathize with their weaknesses [11:58] and try to decompose the power [12:02] structures that they are part of. I [12:05] don't know if this answers your [12:06] question, but this is [12:08] >> this is my thoughts. [12:09] >> Absolutely. No, it's a it's it's very [12:11] specific, but it's also it's not a uh [12:14] it's hardly a palemic. It's about a real [12:17] family in a real place and um [12:20] >> it has to be. [12:20] >> Yeah. You know what I thought about in [12:22] in reading your book? There's a I think [12:24] there's an expression about Torah, turn [12:26] it over and turn it over again and again [12:29] because each each especially Barack your [12:31] narrator, but each character, they come [12:34] to an understanding and then they push [12:36] it a little more and then they come to a [12:38] new understanding and they put is mom [12:40] guilty. Well, what if she is guilty? Did [12:42] she deserve to be guilt? Maybe she's [12:44] getting revenge. maybe she and it's just [12:46] you know no one is ever really satisfied [12:48] with the answer they get and they keep [12:50] probing and probing was was that your [12:53] idea of a family that it's never really [12:55] static I guess in how we relate to each [12:58] other what we think of mom or the kids [13:00] or the brothers [13:02] >> you know um it's very interesting that [13:04] you asked that um we we talked about [13:08] what the book is about and one can say [13:12] that it's a book about a woman who is [13:14] accused of embezzling and the family and [13:17] everything that happens in the family. [13:19] But I feel that this is not really what [13:21] the book is about because I I feel that [13:25] if this was the case, if this was really [13:27] what the book was about, then it [13:29] wouldn't interest anyone [13:31] >> because the number of people uh even in [13:34] Israel today whose parent embezzled [13:38] uh large sums of money is very very [13:41] small. [13:43] And uh even if we broaden the scope, I [13:45] can I can assure you that the ones whose [13:48] parents did embezzle all read house [13:51] arrest and wrote to me after they read [13:53] it. But even if we broaden the scope and [13:56] go to you know other crimes and other um [14:01] still how many people do you know whose [14:03] parents were publicly accused of [14:06] horrible crimes? Not many. Um, I feel [14:10] that this is merely the hanger to hang [14:13] an emotional truth over. Uh, this is the [14:17] plot, but I feel that what the book is [14:20] really about, it's about being someone's [14:23] child. And this is something that there [14:26] isn't anything more universal than this [14:29] question. Everyone on the universe is [14:32] someone's child. It doesn't matter if [14:35] you're if you're the child of someone [14:36] who is dead or alive. If you're the [14:39] someone of a good parent or a bad parent [14:41] or anything in between. Usually it's [14:44] anything in between. Uh we are this this [14:47] uh position of being someone's child is [14:50] an eternal position. you know um to this [14:54] day when I go to a restaurant with my [14:58] mother I don't bring my wallet [15:02] because when I I am with her at a [15:05] restaurant I am the child I will not pay [15:09] and when my mother when my grandmother [15:12] was alive my mother my grandmother lived [15:14] to be 96 and when she used to take me [15:17] and my mother for dinner my mother would [15:20] often say listen um this time I'm going [15:23] to be inviting us. Let me invite us this [15:26] time. And my grandmother would say very [15:30] well you will be inviting and I will be [15:32] paying. [15:34] So this is I I feel that this um this is [15:38] small anecdote but this uh the [15:41] relationship inside family are eternal. [15:46] They are very very difficult to change. [15:49] You have the little brother, you have [15:51] the middle brother, you have the older [15:52] brother, you have the smart one, you [15:54] have the diligent one, you have the [15:56] so-called lazy one, you have and each [15:59] has their own relationship with everyone [16:02] else in the family. And everyone who has [16:05] a family knows how almost impossible it [16:09] is to make any shift in those [16:12] relationships. [16:14] I think that um what I put them through [16:19] and I I apologize for that. You know, I [16:22] often apologize [16:24] to my characters. I tell them, you know, [16:27] you know, go go. They start the book and [16:30] I say, I I I I'm so sorry for what's [16:33] going to happen to you on page 60. I'm [16:35] really But you know, I hope you're going [16:38] to deal with that. But what I put them [16:41] through is a situation of a crisis which [16:44] is a very uh it's a terrible family [16:47] crisis. But there is an upside to that [16:51] crisis and that is that at a time of [16:54] huge crisis there can be a reshuffle in [16:59] the in the different roles in the [17:03] family. everyone has a chance to try and [17:08] catch a different seat in the family. So [17:11] I tried very much to follow these [17:16] minuscule changes uh inside the the [17:21] family and the relationships and uh I I [17:24] feel that people change very little if [17:27] any. But a novel which usually you know [17:32] it follows a very dramatic part a [17:34] relatively dramatic part of someone's [17:36] life is an opportunity for some change [17:39] and I try to follow it and to describe [17:41] it to the best of my ability. [17:45] >> Yeah. So, I want to pick up on what you [17:46] said about this being a particular story [17:48] about a particular family building on [17:50] real life um tensions and dynamics in [17:54] any family and yet you're an Israeli [17:57] writer and I do wonder do you feel as an [17:59] Israeli writer there's a constant [18:01] pressure to be read whether you intended [18:04] or not as an allegory as this is about [18:07] not just a family living in a city in [18:09] Israel but it's about Israel it's about [18:12] the matsab the situation it's about [18:14] global politics are you allowed to just [18:17] do you give yourself permission to say [18:20] I'm writing a story about this family [18:22] and I am not writing a pmic about pick [18:25] your political you know you know the [18:27] situation the conflict or anything else [18:30] how free do you feel to do that or maybe [18:33] not maybe you absolutely feel you're [18:35] part of that conversation [18:37] >> it's it's a super interesting question [18:40] um [18:43] my uh on one And my motivation will [18:46] always be to tell an universal, [18:51] personal, [18:53] compelling story. Uh it will forever be [18:57] to tell a story that can be told [19:01] everywhere and can be understood by [19:04] everyone no matter where they live. If [19:08] my my uh my my rule and my ideal says [19:16] that if a person is a human being, if [19:20] they have weaknesses and conflicts and [19:22] secrets and desires, then they should be [19:26] able to uh understand and to enjoy my [19:30] book. This is the basic the basics of [19:33] it. But [19:36] um [19:38] as time goes by [19:40] I understand more and more that um I am [19:46] the grownup [19:48] behind the story. I am the one that I [19:53] cannot run from responsibility. [19:57] I can say until tomorrow that I'm [20:01] writing a personal story, etc., etc., [20:03] etc., but I am an Israeli woman writing [20:08] my novels in Hebrew, which is a very [20:12] charged language, [20:13] >> and it is a very charged setting to [20:16] write in. And these are very charged [20:21] times to be a writer in. [20:25] And I cannot raise my hands and say no [20:29] no no just this is just a story this is [20:31] just a story because the story uh is um [20:38] very closely linked to the place uh and [20:42] to the language uh where it is written [20:46] and [20:48] and so I take responsibility [20:52] for the implications and for the [20:55] meanings that may arise from this story. [21:00] For example, [21:02] um the question of what is what is going [21:06] on with the Israeli left in the past 20 [21:10] years? Um [21:13] what is going on with uh Israeli [21:16] corruption [21:17] and with uh Israeli politics in general [21:21] and where is the peace camp going? All [21:24] these questions are questions that need [21:27] to be addressed or the they these are [21:30] questions that arise from the from the [21:32] book. [21:34] But I I do feel that they cannot live [21:38] they cannot exist without having [21:42] um without having this very very strong [21:46] oh basis [21:49] of um of a great personal story. Right. [21:55] Um, I just want to for folks watching, [21:57] um, if you do have questions for Noah [21:59] Yedlin, uh, put them in the Q&A and I'll [22:02] get to as many as possible in a in a few [22:04] minutes. So, following up on that, the [22:07] novel, um, what you were just saying, [22:09] the novel was published originally in [22:11] Hebrew in 2013. [22:13] That's long before October 7th, uh, and [22:16] the profound political upheavalss of [22:18] recent years. Do you think the world of [22:20] the fogals feels more remote now as a [22:23] result or given, you know, kind of the [22:26] search as you said before for the the [22:28] Israeli left, is it even more relevant [22:30] at this moment about, you know, what [22:32] happened to the Israeli left and can it [22:34] be revived? [22:37] I feel that um [22:40] although I I wrote it and of course I [22:43] couldn't have any idea what was uh what [22:47] was ahead [22:49] um I feel that uh surprisingly [22:54] it has become much more relevant than it [22:58] ever was before [23:01] because um [23:04] because the this clan, this um this [23:09] social group that is uh depicted in the [23:12] novel [23:14] is now an extinct extinct group in [23:18] Israel. [23:20] It is true that this group still uh [23:24] there there are there are many people [23:27] who are part of this group. These are [23:30] the people who still uh fight for um for [23:36] Israel to to not change to the [23:40] direction, not go in the directions that [23:43] it is uh threatening to go in. H it is [23:47] true that they are um a rather vocal [23:53] uh group because they protest and they [23:57] have and they still have some power in [24:00] the media and they write and they speak [24:03] and [24:05] um but at the end of the day uh this is [24:10] you know when I go to um to [24:14] demonstrations [24:16] uh which I often go [24:19] I am generally the youngest. [24:22] It seems like uh it seems like this is a [24:27] generation that is when they pass away [24:33] I'm not sure that there is going to be [24:35] people to replace them. [24:38] And the feeling is that um this is [24:44] this is these are the very last um this [24:47] is the very last voices of an extinct [24:52] group. Uh this is a rather uh gloomy [24:57] description of the situation. [25:00] But I feel that um [25:04] that this makes the novel even more [25:08] relevant because this is a a family at a [25:14] moment of um [25:18] this is a a family at a mo standing on a [25:21] junction. the question of what does it [25:24] mean to be um [25:28] to be a powerful intellectual in Israel? [25:32] What does it mean to be to have [25:35] intellectual and social and economical [25:38] power in Israel? Uh what are the [25:42] responsibilities that are attached to [25:44] this kind of a to being part of this [25:48] kind of a group? [25:50] Um [25:52] I feel I feel that it is um that it is [25:55] even more so relevant today. Um in that [26:00] sense [26:00] >> maybe one other aspect is in some ways [26:04] where you know their responsibility for [26:06] their own demise. There's a the book is [26:08] a satire in some ways not not a you know [26:10] not it's it's not color of his travels [26:12] but it's a satire and I think in some [26:15] ways there's a certain decadence to the [26:17] family. Um, these are good, you know, [26:20] not these aren't, on the face of it, [26:22] this is a normal upper middle class [26:24] family of business people and academics [26:27] and stuff, but there's a a lot of [26:30] connection to real estate acquisition. [26:33] Status is a big deal. Um, Barack is kind [26:36] of um constantly measuring himself [26:39] against his mother, his siblings, [26:42] um, his fellow academics. Um, so in some [26:46] ways this is, is there a little bit of [26:47] a, you know, what we might call a [26:49] post-mortem on at this, you know, [26:51] looking retrospectively, a post-mortem [26:54] on on some of the ways the left went [26:55] wrong by maybe disconnecting themselves [26:58] from, I don't know what, Israeli [27:00] society, the lower middle class, [27:02] whatever it might be. [27:06] >> Uh, it's it's it's a very good question. [27:09] Um [27:11] you know I feel that um [27:16] of course there are many uh ways in [27:20] which the left contributed to its own [27:24] demise. [27:25] >> Mhm. [27:25] >> Um and this is I guess we can have an [27:29] entire separate conversation only about [27:32] that because it's a very complicated and [27:35] very u interesting subject. Right. [27:39] >> But um I have to say that I do feel that [27:45] um there is something unfair [27:48] about and I wrote the book. I take [27:50] responsibility for that. But I do feel [27:52] that there is something uh a bit unfair [27:56] about the fact that since the left [28:00] uh is always explore exploring itself [28:04] and always looking to see what it did [28:07] wrong [28:09] then it is and so they come up with [28:12] answers. They find out that they did [28:15] things wrong [28:17] and but [28:19] at the same time the other side [28:23] uh they seldom ask themselves the same [28:28] question. [28:29] Uh they keep asking they also keep [28:32] asking what the left did wrong [28:35] and who is going to ask what the right [28:38] did wrong. [28:39] Um so there is there is some kind of um [28:46] so this is also something that needs to [28:49] be to be remembered. It's true that the [28:51] left is far the Israeli left is far from [28:54] being perfect. [28:56] I don't know anyone that is perfect. Not [28:59] in politics, not in my personal life, [29:02] not anywhere. If people or anything in [29:06] the world would be perfect, then I would [29:09] have nothing to write about. So I thank [29:12] God for imperfections, for [29:16] um yeah, this is this is what I thrive [29:20] on. [29:22] So I feel I should just I just want to [29:24] remind folks watching that do not for a [29:27] moment think this is a a pmic or it's a [29:31] you know it's a political novel with [29:32] careful you know with position papers. [29:34] the the what it reminded me of of in a [29:37] couple of levels was uh Succession [29:40] the um the uh television series because [29:44] you have siblings [29:47] kind of not that they're going to [29:48] inherit necessarily the business but [29:51] they are each jockeying in their own way [29:53] for favor like as you spoke earlier [29:55] about the mother right you know they [29:57] each want to be seen you know who's the [29:59] favorite who's the least favorite what [30:01] did I how can I get back in her good [30:03] graces do I tell her some do I tell her [30:05] a secret that might spoil our [30:07] relationship. So it has that if if you [30:10] saw Succession as a comedy, which I did [30:13] in many levels. Um it is that kind of [30:17] comic novel. So I just want to I want to [30:18] both praise you for that, but also just [30:20] people, you know, do not, you know, [30:22] you're going to enjoy this novel on its [30:23] own basis and you don't have to um you [30:27] don't have to girdge yourself up and and [30:28] uh you know, research Israeli politics [30:30] to appreciate it. [30:33] Can I say something about the about the [30:36] comic part of you mentioned comedy? [30:40] Um, and [30:42] you know I um people often tell me about [30:46] the same novel about my novels. [30:50] I'm sorry. [30:52] People often tell me they read my novels [30:55] house arrest or others and they say [30:58] about the same novels. Some people tell [31:00] me I laughed out loud and it was so [31:03] funny and others tell me it was so [31:06] depressing I wanted to die. About the [31:09] same level. And I really like the fact [31:11] that I get this very different uh [31:14] responses. [31:15] And I feel that it has to do with uh in [31:18] a in in a sense with the way that I see [31:22] humor. And the truth is that I see it as [31:25] something rather said [31:28] because I think that uh humor uh is [31:32] actually uh someone walking the world [31:37] and trying to constantly detect the [31:40] cracks in reality, the invisible cracks. [31:44] And once someone shows you a crack that [31:47] you haven't noticed yourself, the the [31:50] surprise has a comic comic effect. [31:54] But the this uh worldview of constantly [31:59] looking for what is broken, what appears [32:02] to be whole but is actually broken. This [32:06] is a very pessimistic way of looking at [32:10] people and of at relationships and at [32:14] the world. So I feel that there is [32:16] something very I mean I I would love to [32:20] just go around and see people and just [32:22] believe that everything is okay. Um [32:27] but I didn't get to choose. So this is [32:30] this is what I I have. Yeah. [32:33] >> Mhm. So, speaking of succession, you [32:35] have some experience in seeing one of [32:37] your one of your books turned into a was [32:39] it a series or a film? It was a series. [32:41] Yes, [32:43] >> I actually had uh I had uh two series uh [32:47] adapted into television. One was [32:50] Stockholm, which was already adapted [32:52] into a two te two season television [32:54] series. I was the one I adapted it into [32:57] television. Mhm. [32:59] >> And another novel of mine called People [33:01] Like Us uh was adapted into television [33:05] and will air in uh March 27 in Israel. [33:10] >> So there is actually another one on the [33:13] way. [33:14] >> Yeah. So um so [33:17] >> can you tell me a little bit about that [33:18] process? I'm so interested in how um I [33:20] mean in this case you're not handing it [33:22] over to another writer so maybe you have [33:23] a little bit more control but it's it's [33:25] like I don't know is you just feel like [33:28] you're just starting all over or it's a [33:30] natural progress progression. [33:33] Um, [33:35] first of all, it's true that I I am the [33:38] one who has a little more as you as you [33:41] described it, I have some more control [33:44] maybe than in other cases where you hand [33:48] it over to other people. But there is [33:52] there are ups and downs to being to [33:55] adapting your own novel into television [33:58] because on one hand you obviously know [34:00] the characters better than anyone else. [34:03] Uh you know the story better than anyone [34:05] else but on the other hand the fact that [34:08] you are so close to your characters and [34:13] you know them so intimately and you've [34:15] spent so many years with them already. [34:19] In a way it makes I'm not sure that it [34:21] makes you the perfect person to make [34:24] harsh decisions because uh adapting into [34:28] television or into any other medium uh [34:31] requires harsh decisions. It can require [34:35] for example uh the decision that a [34:38] character should be eliminated [34:42] or a plot or one of the plots should be [34:45] eliminated. [34:47] And for me to if we talk about [34:50] characters uh I [34:53] writing the characters composing the [34:55] characters I I I write a biography to [34:59] each and every one of my characters [35:00] before I even write a single word in the [35:03] novel. So these people are like my [35:06] family. I am very very uh attached to [35:09] them. And if someone told me that for [35:12] the sake of the television series I need [35:15] to uh leave out two characters for [35:18] example for me this is nothing short [35:21] than coldblooded murder. [35:23] >> Mhm. [35:23] >> So this is not very easy. Um so I'm just [35:28] uh like pointing out that this has many [35:31] sides to it. Um [35:34] the other side if you you mentioned the [35:36] key word control [35:39] um I think that this may be the biggest [35:41] difference between television and [35:44] literature because when I write a novel [35:47] the control is 100% mine. Every word in [35:51] this novel I put it there. If you have [35:54] any compliments they should go to me. [35:56] And if you have any complaints, I'm also [35:59] the address for any grievances you might [36:02] have. Um, but uh, television series is a [36:06] completely different story. Um, it's [36:09] true that the writing is important, but [36:12] there are so many other aspects uh that [36:16] determine the final result. There's the [36:19] actors and there's the music and the and [36:23] the editor and the lighting and so many [36:28] other factors and of course there is [36:31] money because you know it's very funny [36:34] that you know we always talk about the [36:36] fact that there is no money in [36:38] literature and uh literary industry is [36:42] always in crisis and this is all very [36:45] true and it seems like all the money is [36:48] in television, you know, it's very [36:50] glamorous and very um but the truth is [36:55] that when I sit down in my pajamas [36:58] writing my novels in my little room, [37:02] then I have all the money in the world [37:04] because if I decide to write about an [37:07] orphanage in the 16th century in a [37:10] forest in France, it will cost me [37:13] nothing. [37:15] But once you want to televise that uh [37:19] there is never enough money. There is [37:21] always an actor you can't afford and a [37:23] location that you can't afford and it is [37:25] always up to you the writer to make the [37:28] proper adjustments. [37:30] I remember that uh when I wrote [37:33] Stockholm I wrote I initially wrote a [37:36] scene where there is a huge uh birthday [37:39] party same as uh it was in the book. [37:43] It's surprise birthday party. And um [37:47] when we got closer to filming, uh the [37:51] producer came to me and he said, [37:52] "Listen, [37:54] um I have a question. Would it be a [37:57] disaster if instead of a 300 people in a [38:02] huge party, it's going to be an intimate [38:05] two couple dinner celebrating this uh [38:09] this birthday?" [38:11] And I said, "Well, it wouldn't be a [38:13] disaster, but we're not here to prevent [38:16] disasters, right? We're here to do art." [38:19] So, this is always there's always a [38:21] negotiation and uh a constant eternal [38:24] negotiation between money and art, which [38:28] does not exist in literature. In [38:30] literature, you can write and it doesn't [38:31] cost almost anything. Um so I'm just you [38:35] know just uh throwing all of [38:41] this uh [38:42] >> I I can say one more thing. Um when it [38:46] comes to actors [38:48] um I I was very fortunate that the [38:51] actors in both Stockholm and my new [38:54] television series are some of the [38:56] greatest actors in Israel. Uh, I guess [38:59] some of you uh know some of them because [39:02] Stockholm has some of Tissel's uh [39:05] actors. They're very known also in the [39:08] United States. Um but when I first heard [39:12] them uh read my lines and they are the [39:17] most talented amazing actors but still [39:20] it doesn't sound like the way it sounded [39:23] in my mind because I read the text so [39:26] many times in my mind and I think this [39:30] was the reason why I gave myself a role [39:35] in each and every television series that [39:37] I wrote so that I can play that role [39:40] perfectly. [39:42] Um I can do it exactly the way that it [39:45] should be done, [39:47] >> right? [39:47] >> Um yeah, [39:48] >> that's too bad you can't clone yourself, [39:50] right? Of course. [39:52] >> No. Yeah, unfortunately. [39:54] >> So, I'm going to there's some questions [39:55] coming in. Um this is one that's I think [39:57] on on the minds of a lot of people uh [40:00] whenever we speak to Israeli authors. Um [40:02] it's a question we ask. Um, Andrew [40:04] writes, "There have been reports about [40:06] Israeli and Jewish authors having [40:08] difficulties getting their books [40:10] published by American publishers. Did [40:12] you have any difficulty uh here or in [40:15] other countries? Um, and then maybe talk [40:17] a little bit, I guess maybe that will [40:18] lead to a discussion about what is New [40:20] Vessel Press and and how was the [40:22] connection made." [40:25] Uh first of all the [40:28] I rarely answer yes or no as you may [40:32] have uh noticed. Uh this is a very easy [40:36] question because the answer is yes. Um [40:40] it is very very difficult for Israeli [40:44] writers [40:45] uh to publish outside of Israel right [40:48] now. It is extremely difficult. It's not [40:51] that before October 7th it was easy to [40:54] publish in the United States. Um it was [40:58] very difficult before that as well for [41:01] other reasons. Um it is always difficult [41:04] to uh find an American publisher in [41:08] general. The American market uh does not [41:11] publish a lot of translated fiction. Um [41:14] I think the number is 3% if I'm not [41:17] mistaken [41:18] >> or at least it was 3%. [41:21] >> Um but after October 7th it became much [41:25] more difficult. Um, [41:28] and you know, it's it's interesting [41:30] because I don't think that there they we [41:33] talk a lot about anti-semitism, [41:36] but [41:38] you know, it's very um anti-semitism [41:42] and the uh way people treat Israeli [41:47] writers has many many shades to it. For [41:51] example, I'm thinking what if, you know, [41:54] there is an editor in a publishing house [41:56] out there and he's not anti-semitic, [42:01] but there are so many books out there. [42:04] So, he he says to himself, it's not that [42:08] there there is a shortage of good books. [42:12] Why bother now with an Israeli book and [42:16] try to explain and have to justify [42:20] So we'll wait with that one. So I feel [42:24] that there it's not that everyone is [42:26] going will never publish Israeli [42:29] literature. I feel that when it comes to [42:32] making the the choices, the many choices [42:36] what to write a review about uh what to [42:40] publish etc etc etc they're going for [42:43] other options [42:45] and um and so first of all I I feel it [42:50] uh my friends feel it um I know many [42:54] people who don't even try right now [42:57] because it is common knowledge that the [43:01] chances right now are uh slim are very [43:05] very low. Um and even once a novel is [43:10] published [43:12] it is uh very difficult to get reviews [43:16] in uh venues that are not Jewish. Yeah. [43:20] >> Um, you know, the New York Times used to [43:23] write a lot about Israeli fiction [43:26] because we should say that uh even [43:30] before October 7th because there is so [43:32] little there is so there are so few uh [43:36] Israeli novels that are translated into [43:39] English. The ones that do get translated [43:42] are often uh rather prominent or they [43:46] have there is something interesting [43:48] about them. [43:49] >> Yeah. and many books uh were reviewed in [43:52] the New York Times. For example, I can't [43:56] remember the last time that there was uh [43:59] such a such a review uh in a non-Israeli [44:06] um in a non-Jewish [44:08] uh venue. [44:10] Um so it is it is difficult but I can [44:14] say that on the bright side [44:18] um the amount of support [44:22] that I get from uh Jewish uh [44:27] organizations and outlets and people [44:32] that don't know me and they don't owe me [44:34] anything. They just want to help. And [44:37] this astonishes me. Uh this is very This [44:42] is very heartwarming. [44:45] >> Yeah, [44:45] >> that is great to hear. That's great to [44:46] hear. Um going to switch uh gears a [44:49] little bit. Talk about the novel itself. [44:50] Another question here comes from Sue. Um [44:54] oh, I'm sorry. No, there's I'm going to [44:55] go up one. Um it comes from someone [44:57] else. You not your your book is a [45:00] lengthy book, but it has a single [45:02] narrator and a single point of view. Um, [45:05] what were the pluses and minuses for you [45:07] about um, giving the other siblings more [45:09] of a voice as opposed to kind of [45:12] filtering it through the consciousness [45:13] of of the one character, Barack? [45:17] >> I like that question very much. Um, [45:22] I this is something it's it's very very [45:26] personal. It's not that I think it's [45:29] better or worse or to write this way or [45:32] another. Uh but for me personally [45:36] um one of the things I like best [45:40] about uh [45:44] about literature is the fact that uh [45:49] that a character's [45:52] um a character always has a partial [45:57] uh perception of reality. [46:00] Um [46:02] the reason why characters have partial [46:05] perception of reality is because this is [46:09] I think the most prominent trait of a [46:14] human being [46:15] having a partial perception of reality. [46:19] We only know what we know. We only know [46:22] what we think. We don't know what is [46:25] going on in the minds of anyone but us. [46:29] Even if it comes to your close the [46:32] people closest to you. Even if it comes [46:34] to your partner, the person you share a [46:37] bed with, you don't know what's going [46:39] through their minds all the time. [46:42] Sometimes you never know. And maybe it's [46:44] a good thing because if people knew what [46:46] went through each other's mind, then [46:48] relationships wouldn't be possible. But [46:52] um and I feel that uh a novel that gives [46:57] you the perspectives of multiple [47:00] characters [47:02] are [47:04] there is something less um less organic [47:09] about that. I like the the blindness. I [47:14] like this partiality. [47:17] Um, [47:20] and uh I'm actually I'm crazy about [47:22] that. This is one of the things I I like [47:24] the best. Um, and this is and I'm I'm [47:27] willing to pay the price. We will never [47:30] know [47:31] what his brothers exactly had in mind. [47:35] Maybe one day someone will write their [47:38] novel. [47:39] Maybe. [47:40] >> But no, we will never know. is in the [47:43] same way that Barack doesn't know. [47:47] >> Um, so I I try to imitate that uh [47:51] partiality in my writing. [47:54] >> Right. Great. Uh, we talked about the [47:56] kind of the literary climate in the [47:57] United States for Israeli novels. Um, [48:00] what's happening in Israel cultural? Do [48:02] you think it's a good moment? Is it a [48:04] repressive moment? Is it a fascinating [48:07] moment? because there's so much [48:09] material. As as a Israeli living in [48:11] Israel and a creator, what's the climate [48:14] for for literature, for art, for for [48:19] television even? [48:21] >> Um, I think that Israel, it's the the [48:25] answer is twofold. [48:28] Um, [48:30] on one hand, Israel is at a very at its [48:35] peak. [48:37] uh [48:39] artistically wise. Is that a phrase? [48:43] Yeah, [48:44] >> it works. [48:44] >> It is now. [48:46] >> Yeah, [48:46] >> it is now. [48:47] >> Um, [48:49] Israel has it is it has been known for [48:52] many years now for excellent television. [48:56] Television that has been remade and [48:59] exported to all over the world. Uh there [49:03] are amazing television series made in [49:06] Israel. Uh present company excluded of [49:10] course I'm not talking about myself. [49:12] >> Uh but there are wonderful television uh [49:15] series being made and they are always [49:19] made in very very very low budgets. [49:23] Um and the and the results are amazing. [49:29] There is uh wonderful literature in [49:33] Israel. [49:35] There are bursting powers of creativity [49:39] of uh imagination [49:43] of um [49:46] of everything that makes art wonderful. [49:49] So in that sense I feel that we are uh [49:53] in a very good moment. [49:56] But [49:58] there is this feeling that all this um [50:03] all this energy [50:06] is locked and it has nowhere to it has [50:10] no outlet [50:12] >> because we are we want to [50:17] show everyone you know everyone that [50:20] makes art. We you want to show your [50:22] stuff. You want everyone to watch it. [50:25] You want it to be translated. You want [50:28] it to travel overseas. You want people [50:31] to acknowledge it. And at least you you [50:35] want people not to [50:39] um dismiss it on the wrong basis. If [50:43] it's bad, then okay, we can take it. My [50:47] book is bad. Okay. So, don't read it. I [50:49] I accept. But once you you dismiss it [50:53] because of [50:55] uh of who we are, it is it is very [50:59] difficult. [51:01] Not to mention the fact that um in [51:05] general a large u many of the Israeli [51:09] artists are the one that are work doing [51:12] everything in their power to change the [51:15] Israeli regime to um to to to make a [51:20] change in Israel and we need support for [51:23] that. We don't need um yeah we need some [51:27] support. So, [51:28] >> and boycotts don't discriminate between, [51:32] >> you know, fighting for a new Israel and [51:34] the people who they hold responsible for [51:36] whatever they hold responsible for. [51:38] >> Right. [51:39] >> Um, I had a question. I we discussing [51:42] earlier about something that you enjoy [51:44] enjoy doing in the United States. Did [51:46] you say you go to comedy clubs? [51:49] >> I am uh [51:52] a standup comed comedy uh kind of [51:56] fanatic. Ah, it's so and in English I [51:59] find that amazing and interesting. [52:01] >> I actually when I'm in New York and I'm [52:04] in New York for a few weeks at least a [52:07] few weeks every year. I go to the comedy [52:11] seller every night that I'm here. [52:15] >> Every night I've been there like many [52:19] dozens of times. [52:21] Um, and if I'm not there, it's because I [52:25] have tickets for Mark Maron, which I saw [52:29] yesterday at the Beacon, or some [52:31] somewhere else. But, uh, for example, [52:35] when we, uh, finish our very nice [52:37] conversation, [52:39] I'm going to wear my pants and my shoes [52:44] and I'm off to the seller. I have [52:46] tickets for tonight as well. [52:48] >> Wow. [52:49] >> So, yes. Yeah. This What is it about [52:51] standup? I mean, that's I I don't know [52:53] if that's typical of novelists, but [52:55] especially American language, you know, [52:57] English language standup. [53:00] >> Um, the English part is you you know, [53:03] it's just that uh I mean, I understand [53:06] English, so it's kind of uh transparent [53:09] to me. I don't think about the English [53:11] part. [53:13] Um but [53:15] uh as anything else you know in in the [53:19] United States you can find uh probably [53:22] the best of everything. So you can find [53:24] here also the best comedy in the world. [53:27] >> Mhm. [53:28] >> Um there is some very good comedy in [53:31] Israel too and I I watch it too but if [53:35] I'm here close to the cellar I have to [53:37] go and uh see it. H I don't think it is [53:40] very uh common for I don't know any [53:43] other novel novelists that are as [53:46] fanatic as I am about that. I feel that [53:51] at its best [53:54] uh of course I'm talking about the creme [53:56] de la creme de la creme of the best of [53:59] the best of the best of the best. I feel [54:02] that uh that uh standup com comedy is um [54:10] is a very very fine [54:13] and sophisticated [54:16] form of storytelling. [54:19] very exquisite [54:22] and one that can teach [54:26] uh someone like me who is very [54:28] interested in storytelling and in [54:31] different and new and original ways of [54:34] narrating. [54:36] Um [54:38] it can it can open my mind and it can [54:41] give me a lot of inspiration [54:43] and also a lot of joy. [54:46] Joy is something very important in life. [54:49] I feel I actually feel that everyone [54:52] should have a hobby. [54:54] I think that at a certain age we forget [54:57] about hobbies. Hobbies are perceived No, [55:00] I think having a hobby is very nice. [55:02] People sometimes ask me maybe you want [55:05] to do some standup comedy. No, I want it [55:07] to remain my hobby. I want to sit down [55:10] in the crowd and be like, "Yay, [55:14] that's what I want." Um, and I I can [55:17] tell you that sometimes, sometimes not [55:20] often, when I watch a brilliant uh [55:24] comedian [55:26] uh do a brilliant set, I feel uh a [55:30] feeling of uh elation [55:33] >> ofasy. Really, this can be an int a very [55:38] profound [55:39] uh intellectual experience for me. [55:42] >> That's lovely to hear. Lovely to hear. [55:44] Um, one of my favorite art forms as [55:46] well. Uh, the novel is House Arrest and [55:50] it's by our guest Noah Yedlin and you [55:53] should get it and read it and be [55:54] prepared to laugh and maybe be a little [55:56] depressed, but both those things are [55:59] absolutely legitimate. And uh, I want to [56:02] thank our partners here uh, on these on [56:04] this Folio series U.J Federation. Thank [56:07] also my colleagues uh, Theo Weasel Tier [56:10] and Barl Bessmer at 70 Faces Media. And [56:13] but most of all, Noah, I want to thank [56:14] you so much for your time. You've been [56:16] so generous. I hope the uh the [56:19] translation gets the audience that it so [56:21] richly deserves. [56:22] >> And I want to thank you so much for this [56:25] uh for your wonderful questions and for [56:28] this lovely conversation. I can't thank [56:31] you enough. And thank you for reading [56:34] and talking to me. [56:35] >> Thank you Lavatov and Lehit Rod.
