Transcript [00:00] What happens when someone's taught to [00:02] see Islam through the lens of jihadist [00:04] ideology, finally studies the faith for [00:06] himself? Welcome back to East to West [00:09] and part two of our conversation with [00:11] Mubin Sheek. In part one, Mubin shared [00:13] how he became radicalized and why [00:15] September 11th became a turning point in [00:18] his life. Today, he takes us to Syria [00:20] where studying Islam led him to [00:22] understand how extremists manipulated [00:25] the Quran to justify their own [00:27] narrative. He also reveals how he went [00:29] undercover in the Toronto 18 case and [00:31] how he now uses his experiences to help [00:34] young people leave extremism behind. [00:37] This is part two of Muben's [00:39] extraordinary journey. [00:45] [music] [00:47] So then I would travel to Syria. [00:50] Uh now this is 2002 before the war, you [00:54] know, it wasn't so crazy to go to Syria. [00:56] Um [00:58] and that's where everything would change [01:00] for me. Um I spent two years there [01:04] studying Arabic and Islamic studies. I [01:07] think the most important thing was that [01:10] I was exposed to the Sufis while I was [01:13] there. Now the Sufis the are like the [01:16] opposite of the Salafies or the Wahhabis [01:19] whatever you want to call them. The [01:21] Sufis and this is not a political thing. [01:23] It's really a spiritual thing. The idea [01:26] here is [01:28] you really focus on the connection with [01:31] God because God is the master over all [01:35] things [01:38] and the Sufis gave me a new way to look [01:42] at the world. [01:45] I remember the sheh he was saying to me [01:47] that [01:48] you know you're quoting these verses [01:51] from the Quran [01:53] but you're only quoting one verse or you [01:57] part of a verse [02:00] right so [02:02] so he knew that I was I had these views [02:05] right because my my oldest son his name [02:09] is Mujahid right one who does jihad so [02:13] my COA in Syria because I didn't know [02:16] they used COAs. They called you Abu So [02:20] and So [02:22] my COA was Abu Mujah. [02:24] >> Right. [02:24] >> So a guy with a big beard [02:27] Taliban turban showing up in Syria with [02:30] a COA of Abu Mujahid. [02:34] They're like, "This guy is one of those [02:36] guys." So the sheh noticed that. He saw [02:41] that [02:43] and he deliberately engaged me. He knew [02:46] he was like Abu Mujah, [02:49] you know, and he would see he would ask [02:50] me like, "What what do you think? What's [02:52] jihad mean to you?" Like that's how he [02:54] broke it down. And so by asking these [02:57] questions and slowly, [03:01] you know, strategically picking apart [03:04] those ideas is how I dradicalized [03:10] And so if your story wasn't [03:14] crazy until now, it takes an even [03:17] crazier turn. You [03:20] go through this process of [03:21] dradicalization. Like you said, you go [03:22] back to Canada um inside the jihadist [03:26] world, but this time um as an undercover [03:30] operative. I'm laughing even saying this [03:32] because it seems, you know, like a [03:34] Hollywood movie when I'm saying it. Um, [03:36] but how does someone who once sympathize [03:38] with jihadists end up infiltrating them? [03:42] >> I'll tell you it it it it was [03:49] what happened is that I realized that my [03:52] interpretations were were wrong. [03:57] I there is a um there's a verse in the [04:01] Quran as well about saying about God [04:04] that which you do not know [04:07] and there's another verse about [04:10] um making the way of Allah appear [04:14] crooked [04:16] and that's what I realized I had been [04:18] doing I had been saying about God that [04:21] which was not true and I was making the [04:24] way of God appear appear crooked by this [04:27] extremism, by this, you know, obsession [04:31] with violence. [04:34] Um, and so I felt guilty about what I [04:38] had been doing. The way that the sheh [04:40] framed it was that I had been violating [04:45] the rules of Allah. [04:48] And I had this conversation with myself [04:51] and I told myself that, okay, you know [04:54] what? I I'm going to make this right. [04:57] I'm going to fix this by going back and [05:00] by showing people what is the true [05:02] Islam. [05:04] Um I didn't think I'm going to go back [05:06] and become an undercover. [05:09] It was when I got back, the first week [05:12] that I got back that in the paper [05:14] newspaper, the first Canadian had been [05:18] arrested on terrorism charges and Min [05:22] Kuaja [05:23] was arrested in connection with the 2004 [05:26] fertilizer bomb plot. Mumin Kuaja sat to [05:30] the left of me in the Quran school I [05:33] went to as a kid. [05:35] So, I saw a reference to the Canadian [05:37] Security Intelligence Service in the [05:40] newspaper article [05:42] and I called them up and I said, "Hey, u [05:45] this must be a mistake. [05:48] I know this guy." And so they said to [05:50] me, "Well, no mistake. Uh but the fact [05:54] that you're in because now it was in [05:55] court, which meant it was a police [05:57] investigation by this time, long past [06:01] being an intelligence investigation." [06:03] And so I called him up. I uh I said, [06:06] "Hey, so they said to me, [06:10] uh the fact that you're calling us about [06:12] him, we want to come and talk to you." [06:15] Surprise. [06:17] So they came to talk to me. I told them [06:20] my life story. They liked how I my views [06:24] about the world and they said, "You know [06:26] what? Would you like to would you be [06:28] interested in working with us as an [06:30] undercover?" And the other thing was is [06:32] that I really I had a newfound [06:34] appreciation for the rights that we have [06:37] as Muslims in the West. Yeah, I know [06:39] there's conflicts that are happening and [06:42] whatnot, but the most important thing [06:44] for a Muslim, and this is what actually [06:48] legitimizes jihad is if if people don't [06:52] allow you to believe in God, if they [06:55] don't allow you to pray, if they don't [06:57] allow you to fast, give charity, go for [07:01] Hajj, right? the pillars of Islam. If [07:05] people prevent you from that, then you [07:07] are allowed to fight. [07:09] But in the west, I mean, we have like [07:12] all these rights where these these [07:14] things are protected. [07:17] So, so that's why I was like, you know [07:19] what? I am going to I'm going to do [07:21] whatever I can to keep this society safe [07:24] because this society is giving me my [07:28] rights to be able to worship freely and [07:31] all of those things. Right? So that's [07:35] how I got recruited by them. I I was [07:38] then you know put into circulation [07:40] uh meaning uh I was operationalized. I [07:43] was actually doing infiltration [07:45] operations. [07:46] Um, and then that culminated in a major [07:50] investigation, one of the biggest in [07:51] Canada called the Toronto 18 terrorism [07:55] plot where 18 young guys who were just [08:00] like I was, [08:02] you know, when I was a little bit [08:03] younger, they were like very similar to [08:06] how I was talking. Now they were they [08:09] had gone a little bit further in the [08:11] activities that they were doing, you [08:13] know, trying to get weapons, having some [08:15] weapons, but you know, actually going [08:18] and doing training out in the bush, you [08:21] know, in the bushes, out in the uh in in [08:24] the forested areas here in in Canada. [08:28] and they were doing this training so [08:29] that they could get uh operationally [08:33] capable to conduct catastrophic [08:37] terrorist attacks in Canada. And so I [08:40] had infiltrated that group like I had [08:42] infiltrated other groups and it [08:45] culminated in a major arrest. Uh it [08:48] would then take four years [08:51] uh five legal hearings supporting the [08:54] prosecution of those offenses. [08:57] Um, basically the court case ended in [09:00] 2010. [09:03] I was now a free person. I was online [09:07] kind of doing the Muslim [09:08] counterterrorism thing. And by 2011, the [09:12] war in Syria kicked off. And by 2012, [09:16] we started to see the rise of ISIS in [09:19] real time. And I was already online, [09:24] you know, debating with these people, [09:27] tracking them, [09:30] trolling them, and then the US [09:32] government saw what I was doing and [09:36] actually invited me to come to the US [09:39] and help them because as they told me, a [09:43] war is coming. And so from 2012 to 2020, [09:48] I got I got put right back to work, if [09:51] you will, uh working with the US [09:53] government supporting anti-ISIS [09:56] activities and operations. [09:59] Um and but in the middle of that, in [10:01] 2016, [10:03] this organization, Parents for Peace, [10:05] reached out to me. Um Parents for Peace [10:08] is a US NGO that engages in [10:11] dradicalization with other young people. [10:14] Um, and so I've basically used all my [10:16] experiences and all my knowledge and and [10:20] now I try to save other young people [10:24] from going down this path or and those [10:26] who have gone down the path I try to [10:29] bring them out and most of our cases are [10:34] successful really u a couple of them [10:39] they haven't been successful meaning [10:41] these guys have been arrested they're in [10:43] prison already and they're just you you [10:46] can't help them at that stage. Some of [10:48] them, you know, and they're very young, [10:50] right? There's some pretty high-profile [10:52] cases in the US, ISIS terrorism cases. [10:56] Uh, you know, one example I'll use is, [10:58] you know, the kid is 16 years old. 16 [11:03] and he doesn't the you know, the brain [11:05] is not even developed yet at that stage. [11:08] This kid has no idea what awaits him. [11:12] you know, he's he will be sent to prison [11:14] for at least 10 years. 10 years in a [11:17] federal prison, right? But, you know, he [11:20] was arrested, his lawyers got in touch [11:22] with us through the jail. We do a video [11:26] teleconference. You know, I I talk to [11:28] him. I kind of see where he's at. I'm [11:32] very relaxed, very calm, but I'm also [11:34] scanning him, right, to see, okay, where [11:36] is what are his views about this? Well, [11:39] how serious are those views? you know, I [11:41] try to try something to see if he's [11:44] going to respond positively or not. Like [11:46] I have my techniques [11:49] and you know, he's he's decided that's [11:51] what he's going to be, right? And he'll [11:53] he'll realize he'll realize, I'm sure, [11:56] cuz he's 16. He wants to go home, but he [11:59] ain't going home. Not for a long time. [12:02] And then when that reality sets in, then [12:06] he'll realize, "Oh man, maybe I made a [12:08] mistake." but he'll be in a prison [12:11] sentence by then. So this is what what I [12:13] do now. Um I'm also very active in uh [12:17] you know trying to counter [12:18] anti-semitism. That's a big problem [12:20] nowadays and not just in Canada but uh [12:23] you know it's a growing problem in the [12:24] world obviously you know this is [12:26] obviously post October 7 Gaza war you [12:29] know when you have ideology and [12:31] grievances these are the two activating [12:34] elements for extremism. [12:37] Ideology without grievances doesn't [12:40] resonate, doesn't make sense, doesn't [12:43] appeal to the mind. And grievances [12:45] without ideology are not acted upon. [12:50] And so this is the current state of [12:52] affairs that we face. [12:54] >> So to that point, you you mentioned, you [12:56] know, you've been you've been the [12:58] radicalized teenager, you've been the [13:00] undercover operative, and now through [13:03] your work, you're you're the man that's [13:04] sitting across those that are [13:06] radicalized. um those young people and [13:08] trying to bring them back. You mentioned [13:11] today's current political climate. When [13:14] you're looking at the West today, are [13:16] you worried? [13:18] >> Uh I mean, you know, think about [13:23] po post 911, right? Like uh massive [13:28] attack happened like that, you know, and [13:30] then [13:32] 20 years of a war on terror. [13:36] um all kinds of extremist plots, [13:38] terrorist plots started to pop up really [13:42] after 2003, the war in Iraq. That's when [13:44] you started to get this homegrown [13:46] jihadism as they called it. And you [13:49] know, think about what was happening, [13:51] right, in society at that time. Then we [13:55] had ISIS, [13:58] right? How quickly people forget, right? [14:00] all the attacks that were happening in [14:03] Europe, in America, in Britain, in [14:05] France, in Germany, in Belgium. [14:09] And so now here we are today, right? So [14:14] I just see this as a continuation, [14:17] right, really, of what's been happening [14:19] post 911 and we're 25 years in. The [14:24] ideology, the this extremist ideology is [14:28] very much present. it it is it it is [14:31] allowed it stays alive because of the [14:35] grievances of conflicts and wars. So [14:40] there was Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, [14:42] >> then with the whole ISIS thing. Well, [14:45] you attacked ISIS. Well, that became the [14:46] grievance, [14:47] >> right? [14:48] >> Now with, you know, the Gaza war, well, [14:51] that's the grievance. [14:53] >> So these are the things that continue to [14:55] proliferate. [14:57] >> So definitely I'm worried. I mean, worst [15:01] is it's dividing and destroying our [15:04] societies [15:06] and that's deliberate. It's a tactic [15:09] that is deliberately yielded. [15:12] >> It's definitely gotten worse as you said [15:14] and it's a continuation. But would you [15:16] say that that jihadist mentality um [15:19] which as you mentioned um we were seeing [15:23] in in in Syria and the rest of the wider [15:25] Middle East and in parts of Africa also [15:28] um and these terror plots you know and [15:30] terror attacks unfortunately across [15:32] Europe. Um but would you say that that [15:35] ideology has now been exported to the US [15:39] and and to the west when you're seeing [15:41] in major um American and Canadian [15:44] cities, you know, people waving the [15:45] flags of major terror organizations, [15:47] whether it's Hamas or Hezbollah or the [15:49] Houthis um on the streets of New York [15:52] proudly in support in support of the [15:54] IRGC. I mean, it's reached unprecedented [15:58] levels, wouldn't you say? I cannot I [16:02] cannot understand this. I can I mean but [16:06] you know the the fact that like like a [16:09] simple thing that we have proscribed [16:12] these groups we've designated them as [16:14] terrorist groups [16:16] Hamas Houthies right and again you're [16:21] you're allowed to protest is legitimate [16:24] all of that I get it but [16:29] like terrorist group flags like I I [16:31] thought we drew a line there right I We [16:33] said no that you're not allowed to do [16:36] but yet and people are doing it now. You [16:38] know you you were saying that the [16:39] ideology has been exported. It's worse [16:42] than that. The ideology is growing [16:45] organically in the west. It's not even [16:48] an export anymore. It's locally sourced. [16:54] Right? And now what you have is now [16:57] people are seeing is what you call the [16:58] the red green alliance. Right? It's the [17:02] Marxists and the Islamists. [17:05] And one should not be surprised really [17:07] by this because think about where the [17:10] the whole even Palestinian [17:12] cause, how it started, right? The PLO, [17:16] this is Marxist group, the PFLP, Popular [17:20] Front for the Liberation of Palestine, [17:23] Marxist group run by George Habash, [17:27] Christian. Right. So the it starts as a [17:32] Marxist [17:34] movement. You see what starts to happen. [17:37] Remember in the 70s how quickly people [17:39] forget airplane hijackings. Remember [17:42] that these were Marxists who were doing [17:44] those hijackings, right? Black [17:47] September, right? They Marxist groups [17:49] committing these kinds of attacks. [17:53] Who was supporting them at the time? [17:56] Right? The Marxism, right? It was coming [17:59] from the east. It was coming from Russia [18:00] of China. Mostly Russia, right? The idea [18:04] of Zionism as racism. [18:06] This is a well, this is well-known [18:08] Soviet propaganda, [18:10] right? So, so that's been fermented from [18:13] the beginning. And then in the 80s [18:15] really when things take on this [18:17] religious veneer, the the conflict is [18:20] continued but with a new costume, the [18:23] new face. [18:24] So in the west the Marxist ideology and [18:28] and it's it's uh proliferated because [18:33] the people in the west are very [18:34] privileged. That's why they have the [18:37] luxury of being able to sit back and [18:41] comment on conflicts that are happening. [18:45] You know the places that are [18:47] destabilized. you know, we we mock them [18:49] and we kind of joke about how, you know, [18:52] holding a latte in one hand and holding [18:55] the flag of a revolution in the other, [18:58] right? It's it's like it's like a TV [19:01] character, like a cartoon character, [19:04] >> right? When you when you think about, [19:05] you know, queers for Palestine, which is [19:07] is something that I just find very [19:10] entertaining really more than anything [19:12] else, it it just shows you that there's [19:15] no reality to the I to the thinking. [19:19] It's very um abstract, right? There they [19:24] are in the same place that I was, right? [19:27] It's very abstract. The reality has not [19:30] hit them yet. And so, uh, this is this [19:34] is the problem. I think, uh, it's it's a [19:36] it's a war for the minds of people, [19:39] right? Um, and [19:42] I I do worry about, you know, the the [19:45] next generation. Uh, they I mean, this [19:48] this generation, they don't have [19:49] critical thinking skills, right? They [19:52] they really don't go deeply into these [19:54] issues. and and when you're dealing with [19:56] very complicated geopolitical things, [19:59] religious things, uh you you can't take [20:02] a superficial approach to that. [20:04] Something that I learned very well [20:08] >> when you hear um you mentioned some of [20:11] those those chants that we've been [20:13] hearing in in those protests across the [20:15] West. Um when you hear globalize the [20:18] inifada, what does that mean for you? [20:21] Yeah, I I know what antifod means, [20:24] right? I know what it is. And you know [20:27] what? Again, the the you know, the [20:29] Marxists have made this stuff sound [20:31] cool. They love the idea of of [20:34] revolution, right? Because that that [20:36] comes directly from that Marxist [20:39] ideology. And you know, kids in America [20:44] have been doing that for decades. I [20:46] mean, they were doing it since the 60s, [20:48] remember? [20:50] uh you know so they think again they [20:52] they don't have a realistic [20:54] understanding of it. It's a very [20:56] romanticized [20:58] uh version of it. Yeah. Resistance, [21:00] revolution, [21:02] you know what I mean? We're going to fix [21:03] everything, right? And so it it it makes [21:07] me, you know, it's it's sad really when [21:09] I say I laugh. If I laugh out of [21:11] sadness, you know, not out of, you know, [21:14] that this is something funny because uh [21:17] inif is just it's the same thing. It's [21:20] just an Arabic word for the revolution [21:24] that because it inif came from the [21:28] Marxist, right? The Marxist PLLO, [21:31] right? So when when people say it, they [21:35] I I mean I I get what they're trying to [21:38] do, but they really don't understand [21:41] what they're saying. They think it's [21:44] this cool, you know, they refer to [21:46] themselves as comrade. You know, I see [21:48] it even now. You know, some of these [21:51] like leftist professor types Muslims [21:55] like like I I guarantee you this is a [22:00] woman I'm talking about. There's one [22:01] lady I have in mind. She's not a [22:04] practicing Muslim. She doesn't pray to [22:07] Allah five times a day like you're [22:10] supposed to as a Muslim like I do. But [22:14] they use the language revolution. You [22:18] know, her hair is out and inif [22:22] you know I'm like she's not Arab, you [22:25] know, South Asian Indopakistani. [22:27] But they use the exact same language as [22:31] the Marxists do. And she refers to each [22:34] other, "Rest in power, comrade." [22:37] I'm like, I'm reading this in 2026, [22:41] and I remember reading hearing this in [22:44] the '9s. [22:48] So, it it's really just a rehash of the [22:51] exact same thing. It's just been [22:53] rebranded. [22:55] >> Yeah. Right. It's exactly as you said. [22:57] history is is essentially repeating [22:58] itself. But my question is do you think [23:00] that western societies are are properly [23:04] equipped to understand the dangers of [23:07] these ideologies? I mean, you know, it's [23:10] kind of at least here in Israel, we have [23:11] this perspective of post October 7th, [23:14] right, of when someone says they want to [23:17] kill you, believe them. Hamas kept [23:19] repeating, "We will kill the Jews. we [23:22] will do October 7th over and over and [23:24] over again until all of the Jews in this [23:27] land are gone. And we believe it and [23:29] that's why Israelis are so I guess you [23:32] could say um ready for for any possible [23:36] attack on this multi- uh this eight [23:40] frontiered war. So my question is to you [23:43] from from the western perspective. Do [23:45] you think that they they understand the [23:47] the the dangers of these radical [23:50] ideologies that are now like you said [23:52] that are very much growing in the west? [23:55] >> No. [23:57] Um they don't uh they really haven't [24:00] faced the level of attack and onslaught. [24:04] Now obviously Israel is it has to be a [24:09] closed society in one sense. Closed I [24:11] mean in that it's it's uh centered [24:15] around a very specific identity. Uh you [24:19] know it's the only Jewish state in the [24:21] world. There's a reason for that right? [24:24] Uh with the history of what's happened [24:25] in Europe and you can go back centuries [24:28] right of how Jews were persecuted. Um, [24:33] so I I understand why Jews and Israel [24:38] are the way that they are in terms of, [24:41] you know, centering it around a core [24:43] ideology, a core belief uh, regarding [24:46] religion and identity. [24:49] The West doesn't have that, right? The [24:52] West is it says it's a secular system, [24:57] right? and and now I think you know [25:00] white European Christians are starting [25:02] to regret that because they and that's [25:04] why you see this return um or this [25:07] almost rise in in religious identity but [25:10] especially Christian identity. So when [25:13] people say, "Oh, these are Christian [25:14] countries." They're not actually [25:17] Christian countries. Like people don't [25:18] really they don't realize that [25:20] Christianity has had gone through this [25:23] secularization [25:24] where the role of the church was pushed [25:27] away, right? And there are different [25:29] historical reasons for that. Um you [25:32] know, the church, you know, used to [25:33] persecute the uh philosophers and so on. [25:36] So the pilgrims who came on a boat to [25:39] America did so because they were being [25:41] persecuted by the church. The the [25:43] founding fathers of America like they [25:45] made it very clear like in no way is [25:48] this system built on Christianity right [25:50] because the Christianity that they came [25:52] from in Britain um primarily it was was [25:56] hostile right to that way of thinking. [25:58] So it's kind of come full circle in that [26:00] sense. Now they're starting to realize [26:03] and and more so in Europe I think that [26:05] hey like we we are we feel we are [26:08] Christian now like we want to assert our [26:10] Christian identity so the west does not [26:15] have that right that what Israel has so [26:17] it's not going to have the same [26:18] understandings [26:20] that's the main thing um as well they [26:23] they really don't celebrate and support [26:28] you know their own history right I I [26:31] mean, I got I have no problem [26:34] recognizing, acknowledging like we have [26:36] a I keep it right here always like we [26:39] have a, you know, this is the poppy that [26:42] we wear on November 11th, which is a [26:45] remembrance day, right? That these were [26:49] the wars that were fought by Yeah. white [26:51] European, mostly Christian people [26:54] against the Nazis, right? And I [26:56] acknowledge that and I respect that [26:58] because otherwise, [27:00] you know, uh I I would not be living in [27:02] the Canada that I live in today. That [27:05] doesn't mean it doesn't take away from [27:07] who I am and what I believe and anything [27:09] like that, right? There were actually, [27:12] you know, many many Muslims who fought [27:14] in World War II against the Nazis. Even [27:17] though the Nazis tried to have this [27:18] Muslim division, right, in those days, [27:21] especially to Haj, what's his name? Uh [27:24] Husini. uh the so-called muti of [27:27] Jerusalem. um you know he was obviously [27:29] trying to get his own power set up in in [27:32] the lands but this is the kind of [27:35] history that we don't celebrate we don't [27:38] respect and so that's why there is this [27:42] loss of identity and so that's that is [27:45] something that I am worried about that [27:46] if we don't have respect for those for [27:49] that history and that reality then we [27:53] don't know what we're going to be [27:54] fighting for the next time [27:57] >> moving My last question to you is um you [28:00] know there may be a a 19-year-old [28:02] watching us right now who's angry um [28:05] who's feeling alienated and is searching [28:08] for meaning as you did um and he's been [28:11] beginning to to believe the world can be [28:13] divided uh between the oppressors and [28:16] the oppressed the believers and the [28:18] enemies um and that perhaps violence [28:21] against those enemies is is righteous. [28:24] you know that young man because as [28:26] you've you've told us over the the span [28:28] of this interview, you were him. What [28:30] would you say to him? [28:31] >> Yeah. What I would say to him or her [28:33] because it also is something that's [28:35] affecting women as well. And you know [28:38] what what role do you think you're [28:40] supposed to play as a as a Muslim man or [28:42] woman and I I come back to this reality [28:47] uh the Muslim the the believer the [28:50] believer in the one God right um as as [28:54] you say right [28:59] as we say in Arabic [29:03] right the Lord our God is one God. All [29:06] right, this is where we have to start. [29:08] There's one God and that God is the [29:11] master over all affairs. [29:14] We believe in destiny [29:16] that things are written and decreed to [29:19] occur. [29:21] It is possible that you see a thing and [29:24] you think it's so terrible that you must [29:27] physically take up a weapon to change [29:30] that thing. But it is possible that you [29:33] are trying to fight the decree of Allah [29:37] and if you do that you will find no [29:40] success in what you do. Look the example [29:44] of Hamas is a perfect example of failure [29:47] in this regard. [29:49] They broke the laws of jihad. [29:52] Is Allah going to give you victory by [29:55] breaking his laws? Not possible. Not [29:59] possible. [30:01] The even the declaring of jihad is not [30:04] the prerogative of a group or a little [30:09] group of guys in a basement somewhere. [30:12] This is not how jihad occurs. This is [30:14] why when those people do it, they fail. [30:19] In fact, the only thing they produce [30:22] from that is more hatred of Islam and [30:25] Muslims. [30:27] Now, if people think that, okay, well, [30:29] I'm not just going to sit there. I got [30:31] to do something. Well, you got to ask [30:32] yourself, what are you going to do? What [30:35] power do you think you have? I thought [30:38] you were a Muslim. I thought you believe [30:40] that Allah has all power. So, you should [30:43] be turning to Allah. [30:46] You should be making dua to him, asking, [30:48] "Oh Allah, remove this oppression that's [30:50] in the world. Oh Allah, save the [30:53] innocent people from being killed. Oh [30:55] Allah accept you. There's so many things [30:58] you need to connect with Allah first. [31:01] Unfortunately what's happening is [31:03] through emotion people are connecting to [31:05] their nuffs their ego. They have started [31:09] to make their ego God. [31:12] So this will always fail. As you can see [31:15] anywhere you look uh it it really hasn't [31:18] materialized in any significant way. You [31:22] know, look at Afghanistan. It's a joke. [31:25] You know, um, you know, even it's so bad [31:28] that even ISIS was telling the Taliban, [31:30] "Hey, now hold on. Even we teach women, [31:33] you know, okay, they teach them how to [31:35] jihad and be suicide bombers and this [31:37] and that, but even they knew that women [31:40] should be educated, right?" So, you can [31:43] see the end result of these things. And [31:47] I just remind people like we know that, [31:51] you know, in in our end times [31:54] prophecies, we know the things that are [31:57] supposed to occur. We know what's [31:59] supposed to happen. And those are things [32:02] that you you cannot such is the of [32:05] Allah, the the decree. You cannot hasten [32:08] it. You cannot delay it. You cannot [32:12] force it. You cannot slow it down. it [32:16] will occur when it is decreed to occur. [32:19] So rather than waste your life thinking [32:22] that you're going to speed things up or [32:24] thinking that you are going to be the [32:28] holy one that God has sent to change [32:31] everything, [32:33] you know, return to Allah and remain [32:36] with him. That's the only option for [32:39] you. [32:39] >> Mubh, thank you very much for joining us [32:41] today. [32:42] >> Thank you very much for having me. We [32:44] want to hear from you. What challenged [32:46] you, surprised you, or stayed with you [32:49] from this conversation? And who should [32:51] we speak to next? Share your thoughts in [32:53] the comments below. And of course, [32:55] follow us on social media and send this [32:57] episode to someone who you think should [32:58] be part of the conversation. I'm Sarah [33:00] Martinez Amir and thanks for listening [33:02] to East to
