Transcript [00:02] Welcome to Waiting for 61, JTA's Israel [00:05] election podcast, where we break down [00:07] the fundamentals of Israel's 2026 [00:09] elections, the politics, the fires, and [00:12] what's at stake as each side scrambles [00:14] to put together a government. I'm Ami [00:16] Eden, the CEO and executive editor of 70 [00:19] Faces Media, the organization behind the [00:22] Jewish Telegraphic Agency. [00:24] >> And I'm Ruth Eglash, JTA's senior Israel [00:27] correspondent. Today marks 12 days since [00:29] the elections here and there's [00:31] absolutely no sign of 61. But we might [00:34] be getting a little bit closer there, [00:36] army. We might be moving in the right [00:39] direction. [00:39] >> As usual, remember to send your [00:41] questions to the waiting for61 [00:43] atjta.org. And if you're enjoying [00:45] waiting for 61, please subscribe and [00:48] give us a fivestar rating wherever you [00:50] listen to your podcasts. Okay, let's get [00:52] into it. So Ruth, it seems like we have [00:54] a a big development. one of those key [00:57] points in the timeline. So, talk us [01:00] through what's going on. [01:02] >> Well, it is a big day. I guess it's one [01:04] of those turning point days in the whole [01:07] post-election process. And you know, [01:10] Amy, that last week the president, [01:12] President Herzog, met with members of [01:14] each party that passed uh the threshold [01:17] that going to be in the next Knesset. [01:19] And he asked them for their [01:20] recommendations of who should be the [01:22] next prime minister. and based on those [01:24] recommendations he has announced du drum [01:28] roll um who he would like to try and [01:31] form the next government. So we had [01:34] after that round of consultations [01:37] 67 mandates for uh Gaddy Eisenot and 46 [01:42] for Netanyahu. So now the the president [01:45] today will ask Gaddy Eisenhot formally [01:49] to uh to form the government or to start [01:53] negotiating with other parties to try [01:55] and reach that magic number 61. um he'll [01:59] have 28 days in the first go and if he [02:02] can't do it within 28 days he'll have [02:04] another 14 days and if he can't do it [02:06] within that time then by law it will go [02:09] to another member of Knesset most likely [02:12] Netanyahu [02:14] >> so not to make this too hard with math [02:18] for everybody but 67 + 46 is 113 [02:24] uh so we're missing something there so [02:26] what so what's that missing peace there. [02:29] >> Oh, you're better at maths than I am, [02:31] but there are seven uh there were seven [02:33] Knesset members or a party of seven [02:35] Knesset members, the United Torah [02:36] Judaism, who did not recommend either [02:39] candidate. They they sat on the fence [02:41] and they said, "We're not going to [02:42] recommend anyone." So, I think they're [02:44] trying to keep all their options open. [02:46] You know, they're going to try and see [02:47] uh who's going to give them the best uh [02:49] offer and then they'll make up their [02:51] mind. Last night, the president uh [02:54] announced that he was going to ask Gaddy [02:56] Eisenot. And over the last few days, [02:58] Eisenot said he that he's going to go [03:00] for it. If the president gives him the [03:02] chance, he's going to go for it. And uh [03:04] he laid out four principles for anyone [03:07] who wants to join him in this endeavor [03:10] of putting together a government. [03:12] >> So, one other thing before we go through [03:14] those four principles, I've already had [03:17] people ask me, "Wait, so this thing is [03:19] over now? So why isn't this just just [03:22] remind our listeners like why this isn't [03:23] a done deal if 67 people recommended [03:26] that he get the shot to form the [03:28] government? [03:28] >> Well, actually now comes the hard part. [03:31] Now comes the part where they have to [03:32] really hammer down those uh agreements [03:35] between you know what the parties want [03:38] what Eisenot is willing to give who's [03:41] going to get which uh you know portfolio [03:43] in the government which ministries which [03:46] policies the government's going to adopt [03:48] as a collective which ones they are not. [03:51] And the parties have to decide between [03:53] what they have campaigned on, what their [03:55] what their promises were to the people [03:57] that voted for them and what they can [03:59] compromise on and they can to make sure [04:01] that there is a stable government. So [04:04] this is like the test now. This is like [04:06] the the home stretch when everyone's [04:09] already tired but they still have to [04:11] keep on running till they reach the [04:14] finish post. [04:15] >> Okay, Ruth. So let's let's get into the [04:18] four principles. I'll just run through [04:19] them at the top and then we can break [04:22] them down. So he basic Eisenhot [04:26] basically said, "Hey, here are my four [04:28] principles. If you agree with them, [04:31] let's talk." Right? So number one, [04:34] recognition of the state of Israel as a [04:36] Jewish and democratic state. Number two, [04:39] acceptance of the values of the [04:40] Declaration of Independence. And we'll [04:42] walk through what those values might be. [04:45] Number three, mandatory service for all, [04:48] military, national, and civilian to [04:51] strengthen the IDF and expand its ranks. [04:54] And finally, number four, recognition of [04:56] Hamas as a terrorist organization and [04:58] commitment to dismantling its military [05:01] political power. So, let's just walk [05:04] through number one. Uh maybe this is the [05:06] clearest one. I don't know. Recognition [05:09] of the state of Israel as a Jewish and [05:12] democratic state. break that down to [05:14] whatever you know what what's the [05:16] subtext to the to that one. [05:18] >> Well, I mean it sounds very obvious. I [05:20] mean to to our ears it sounds very [05:22] obvious. Israel is the you know the [05:24] Jewish state we always like to call it. [05:26] So obviously anyone who lives there [05:28] should recognize Israel as a Jewish [05:30] state. Um and Israel is a democratic [05:33] country. I mean we just had elections. [05:34] So obviously you know it's a you have to [05:36] recognize that. But I think for for [05:39] Eisenhor and especially putting this as [05:41] the number one um principle that he is [05:45] you know putting forward is a very clear [05:47] message to the extremes and we've talked [05:50] about the extremes on the political map. [05:53] So on the one hand it's a message to the [05:55] Arab parties saying you have to [05:57] recognize Israel as a Jewish state. Um [06:00] it's a safe haven for Jewish people. [06:03] People around the world came here when [06:05] they were in trouble. It was set up [06:06] after the Holocaust. So, people came [06:08] here as a safe haven and and Israel, you [06:12] know, Israel's symbols, Israel's uh [06:15] holidays are all Jewish based. You know, [06:17] they're all Jewish connected. Um, so [06:20] that is a message because there are [06:22] people on the left of the political map, [06:24] people who are in the Arab parties who [06:26] say, you know what, Israel should be a [06:28] country like any any other place and [06:30] religion should be part of it. and he's [06:32] saying, "No, Israel is a Jewish country [06:34] and you have to accept that if you want [06:35] to be in my gang, so to speak." And on [06:38] the other side, he's talking about [06:40] Israel as a democratic country. And that [06:42] for me seems like a clear message to [06:45] elements of the outgoing government who [06:48] were trying to change Israel's judiciary [06:52] or change Israel's, you know, system of [06:55] governance and weaken some of its checks [06:57] and balances which we know are essential [06:59] in a democracy. And so he wants to say, [07:03] you know, he's not going to stand for [07:04] any of that stuff. And uh that's a [07:07] message to the far right and certain [07:10] elements of uh Likood who wanted to [07:13] change the kind of fundamental setup of [07:16] Israel as a democratic state. [07:18] >> Okay, let's go to number two. And in [07:21] some ways it feels a little redundant [07:24] but maybe not. Let's walk through [07:26] acceptance of the values of the [07:28] Declaration of Independence. What what [07:30] what do we think he's talking about [07:32] specifically um when he raises Israel's [07:35] Declaration of Independence? [07:36] >> Well, you know, I I went back and I had [07:39] a read of the Declaration of [07:40] Independence after Eisen talked about it [07:43] um you know, just to remember. I'm sure [07:45] that I learned it once upon a time, but [07:47] I just wanted to go back in and see uh [07:49] see what it says. And I went through [07:50] everything and I thought, okay, yeah, [07:52] yeah, you know, Israel is a Jewish [07:54] Jewish state, a home for the Jewish [07:55] people, etc., etc. And then I fell upon [07:58] this uh one uh one paragraph and I [08:01] thought okay this is what he's talking [08:03] about. Okay, because this lays out how [08:07] the state of Israel should should look, [08:09] how it should operate. In this [08:11] paragraph, it talks about uh the state [08:13] of Israel will be open for Jewish [08:15] immigration for the in gathering of [08:16] exiles. It will foster the development [08:18] of the country for the benefit of all [08:20] its inhabitants. It will be based on [08:23] freedom, justice and peace as envisioned [08:25] by the prophets of Israel. It will [08:27] ensure complete equality of social and [08:30] political rights to all its citizens [08:33] irrespective of religion, race or sex. [08:35] It will guarantee freedom of religion, [08:38] conscience, language, education and [08:41] culture. It will safeguard the holy [08:43] places of all religions and it will be [08:45] faithful to the principles of the [08:47] charter of the United Nations. And that [08:49] to me stood out as like that's the [08:52] foundations. That's how he we want [08:54] Israel to be. These are the basic [08:58] principles. And I think that's what he's [09:00] getting at. And it almost seems like [09:02] yes, you know, the we we're sending a [09:04] message to the Arab parties that you [09:06] have to accept Israel as a Jewish first [09:08] democratic state. Second, we're sending [09:10] a message to the far right that you have [09:12] to accept Israel as a Jewish democratic [09:15] state. But we're also saying that we [09:17] want it to be a state for everyone. We [09:19] want everyone to be part of the state. [09:21] Everyone should have their freedom of [09:23] religion, freedom of conscience, um be [09:26] free to practice and hold beliefs. So [09:29] he's making a point to say this is going [09:31] to be an inclusive state. Whereas [09:33] there's been criticisms, you know, over [09:35] the past four years that the the [09:37] outgoing government was very much [09:40] divisive, was very much working only for [09:42] one or two streams of the of society and [09:46] not inclusive for everyone. And we also [09:48] saw a rise in attacks on uh non-Jewish [09:53] uh places of worship, which I think is [09:55] important to point out. we saw also uh [09:59] an increase in in in discrimination [10:02] against Israel's Arab population. So [10:04] he's just making it very clear that he [10:06] wants to go back to what was laid out by [10:09] the founders of Israel, those who signed [10:12] that Declaration of Independence in May [10:14] 1948. And just to be clear, some of the [10:18] issues you raised that happened in the [10:19] last government, some of those things [10:22] were not committed by the government, [10:24] but we're seeing like when you talk [10:26] about attacks on religious sites or like [10:29] a lot of the this is not that there's a [10:31] government policy to do it, but the [10:33] government's been getting criticized in [10:36] some circles for allegedly not doing [10:39] enough. [10:39] >> Yeah. not condemning it, maybe uh not [10:42] giving police enough the tools to to [10:44] deal with such things, maybe not [10:46] prosecuting those who are responsible or [10:49] not making enough efforts to catch those [10:50] who are behind such things. So I think [10:53] you know but I think it's more about you [10:54] like unity like uh you know there when [10:57] before president Herzog there was uh [10:59] president Ruby Rivlin and he and and I [11:02] think Herzog as well to an extent they [11:04] they both made it their you know goal to [11:06] to bring the the this fractured society [11:10] which I don't know why but feels even [11:12] more fractured than in other places to [11:15] kind of bring the nation of Israel uh [11:18] whether it's Jews, Muslims, Christians, [11:21] Jews, whoever together uh to work as [11:24] one. And uh and I think that that's kind [11:26] of what Gad Gaddy Eisenot is trying to [11:28] say. He's not going to stand for people [11:29] who use politics as a divisive method to [11:33] boost their own support. [11:34] >> On that Vash point, there's certainly [11:36] going to be members of this government [11:37] who are are are doing that. But you're, [11:40] you know, you're talking about the tone [11:41] he's the tone he's trying to set. I [11:44] think it's really interesting. There's [11:45] this tension that he is putting these [11:48] values so front and center these kind of [11:51] like the these kind of democratic values [11:55] and principles laid out in the [11:56] declaration of independence. At the same [11:58] time there all these people who might be [12:01] in this block who are talking about well [12:03] like we don't want to have the Arab [12:05] parties in the coalition. I think what's [12:07] really interesting about the way Eisenh [12:10] is laying this out is he is making it [12:11] about principles and that goes for the [12:14] and the Arabs and everywhere in between [12:17] because he's not saying oh if you're an [12:20] Arab party you cannot be in my [12:21] government. If you're a Karedi party you [12:23] can't be in my government. It's like if [12:25] you if you just take it at face it [12:27] value. He's saying hey if you're if [12:29] you're willing to adopt these principles [12:30] we'll have you in. And the principles [12:32] are not, oh, we won't sit with that [12:35] group or that group. Whereas most of the [12:37] other, including people in his own camp, [12:39] at least until recently, have basically [12:42] all been labeling it as we won't sit [12:45] with those people. We won't sit with [12:46] those people. So, it is interesting to [12:47] see him try to ground this more in a [12:50] conversation of principles rather than [12:53] identities. Um, number three, and this [12:55] this certainly jumped out at me, and I'd [12:58] love a little more color on this. [12:59] Mandatory service for all, military, [13:02] national, and civilian to strengthen the [13:05] IDF and expanded ranks. So, when I'm [13:07] first reading it, it's jumping out to [13:09] me, and I I've noticed this before. I [13:11] don't think we've talked about it. a lot [13:13] of his coalition partners and just the [13:16] the the the street talks about the need [13:20] to be serving in the in the IDF. But he [13:23] doesn't exactly say that, right? He says [13:25] mandatory service for all military, [13:28] national, and civilian, but then quickly [13:31] pivot to strengthen the IDF and expand [13:34] its ranks. So I was sort of getting a [13:36] little liplash like is this about [13:39] service? Is it about strengthening the [13:41] IDF? How does it strengthen the IDF if [13:44] it's national and civilian and not [13:46] military? So I'm wondering if you can [13:47] just unpack uh again here what's the [13:50] distinction he's making here. What's the [13:52] importance that it doesn't just say [13:54] mandatory IDF service for all? [13:56] >> Because I think he's trying to show some [13:58] flexibility and understanding to the [14:00] different sectors in Israeli society. [14:03] But you know if you think about it you [14:05] know if you sudden I mean he's you know [14:07] he's giving the ultra orthodox and the [14:10] Arab community by the way because they [14:12] also do not serve in the military. Um [14:14] he's giving them the option you know [14:16] maybe they want to serve. Maybe there [14:18] are some ultraorththodox and we've seen [14:20] an increase over the last three years of [14:22] ultraorththodox young men who do want to [14:24] serve. We have seen also an increase of [14:26] Israel's minority groups who've who've [14:28] joined the army especially after October [14:30] 7th. But he's giving the option. He's [14:33] just laying out if you look at the the [14:35] wording, the first, you know, four words [14:37] is mandatory service for all. Okay? So, [14:40] you know, he's a military guy. He's [14:42] going to look at the army. He's going to [14:43] look at how to improve how the army [14:45] functions. But on the other hand, you [14:47] know, when you have people doing [14:48] national service or civilian uh [14:51] volunteering, I don't know, working in [14:53] hospitals or working for the police [14:55] force or other things like that, that [14:57] also strengthens the army. I think of [15:00] after October 7th, you know, when all of [15:02] the, you know, services, not just the [15:04] army, were involved in, you know, [15:07] helping civilians, uh, going down to the [15:09] south and helping evacuate people. Um, [15:13] you know, dealing with with men the many [15:15] victims that there were of from October [15:17] 7th. And we're talking about ambulance [15:19] uh crews and uh we're talking about fire [15:23] services and and the police and the army [15:26] and working in hospitals and all of that [15:28] stuff. So all of that stuff together [15:31] definitely strengthens uh the IDF and [15:34] definitely strengthens the country. But [15:36] I think the key here is the mandatory [15:38] service for all. I mean I think that [15:39] that is really what he's after. He wants [15:42] to see everyone uh contributing [15:44] something to society. And I think that [15:46] that most people will accept that. [15:48] >> It's different than a lot of the talk [15:49] because he's very underlying. It's not [15:52] just we're focusing on the karid and [15:55] we're focusing on the Arabs. It's [15:56] everybody. But also at the same time, I [16:00] don't know if softening is the right [16:01] word, widening the like that the that [16:03] the requirement is not necessarily [16:05] military, which I'm assuming we can get [16:08] to this in a minute, that that [16:09] potentially opens the door to perhaps [16:12] some compromises that would have been [16:14] harder if it was just military. Um, [16:16] four, the fourth principle is [16:18] recognition of kamas is a terrorist [16:20] organization and commitment to [16:22] dismantling its military political [16:25] power. So there have been a lot of talk [16:28] like a lot of talk in the last few days [16:30] about how Ram and Abbas in particular [16:33] Mansour Abbas the head of Ram have have [16:36] not been willing to say outright Hamas [16:39] is a terrorist organization. So I'm [16:42] wondering is this is this is that a part [16:44] of what's happening and then what is the [16:46] you know there was a point where the [16:48] commitment to dismantling its military [16:50] political power there were versions of [16:52] this floating around that were [16:54] destruction and then it became [16:55] dismantling. I'm wondering again the [16:58] importance of the of the word smithing [17:00] there. [17:00] >> Well I think uh um you know mansorbas [17:03] has been very clear where he stands on [17:06] uh on kamas. he is, you know, he hasn't [17:10] been willing to call it a terrorist [17:11] organization for multiple reasons and [17:14] even I I watched uh him uh meeting last [17:17] week with uh with President Herzog and [17:19] even President Herzog said to me, you [17:21] know, why don't you just do it? You [17:22] know, you want to be in the government [17:23] just say it and he said, you know, I [17:25] first of all um there is a fear factor, [17:28] there's threats, there's a lot of [17:29] pressure on the, you know, Arab-Israelis [17:32] who are serving in Israel's parliament. [17:35] Um, he also talks about how he wants to [17:37] remain some neutrality there. Maybe he [17:40] could be used as a bridge between [17:41] Israelis and Palestinians. For the joint [17:44] list, I think the the main uh issue for [17:47] them is that Hamas is seen as a [17:50] political movement that's part of the [17:52] Palestinian struggle. So, for them to [17:55] call Hamas a terrorist organization is [17:57] in many ways delegitimizing the [17:59] Palestinian struggle for political uh [18:03] self-determination. So they they don't [18:06] want to do that either. I have heard [18:08] different analysts here in Israel say [18:10] that Abbas in order to be in the [18:13] government, he he wants to be part of [18:14] the government so bad that he would [18:17] forego that principle and he would [18:19] declare Hamas a terrorist organization [18:21] if there was a chance for if if he was [18:23] accepted to the government. He's not [18:25] going to do it before he's before he's [18:27] accepted to the government, but if he is [18:29] in the government, he would do it. In [18:30] terms of the commitment to dismantling [18:32] the military and political power, I [18:34] think politically I'm not sure about [18:37] like I I don't know um how far the Arab [18:42] groups would go but you know the [18:43] jointness hasn't said it wants to be [18:45] part of the government. They they just [18:47] said we will support you from the [18:48] outside in order to remove uh the [18:51] current government from power. Yeah, [18:53] I've seen speculation that the the sort [18:56] of shift from destruction to dismantling [18:59] might be a way that somehow that would [19:02] give him give Abbas a little more room [19:05] to sign on to this principle. I will [19:07] just tell you this is like really [19:09] interest this is an interesting one you [19:10] know because you mentioned Mansour Abbas [19:12] and how he feels about kamas. I' I've [19:14] heard very like very different just [19:16] takes from reg regular folks about oh my [19:20] god uh Abbas's comments were so human [19:22] and so real and he's so courageous and [19:26] other people saying he's a coward just [19:29] say it's like just say they're terrorist [19:30] group and if you're not willing to say [19:32] if you can't say kamas is a terrorist [19:34] group you can't sit in the Israeli [19:36] government period full stop. So, it's [19:38] just a very interesting issue and I I [19:40] think that's fascinating what you said [19:42] which is is this basically his final [19:44] card and he's not going to play like [19:45] yeah if he can sit in the government [19:48] he'll say the thing that's going to make [19:49] that's going to be the most unpopular [19:51] thing for him to say or the most risky [19:53] thing for him to say on the Arab side of [19:56] the equation but he's not going to take [19:58] that risk you know if he's not going to [20:00] be in the government so that'll be [20:01] interesting to see play out I just [20:04] before we wrap up I I wanted to ask you [20:05] about one other development that ties [20:07] into these princ principles. You know, [20:08] we've been saying all along that it's an [20:10] impossible math equation between the [20:13] people who won't sit with the Arabs, the [20:14] people who won't sit with the and the [20:16] and the people who won't sit with BB in [20:18] the lead. And one of those people has [20:20] been Avi Lieberman who has said I will [20:24] not sit with the but he came out and [20:29] sort of started signaling a different [20:31] tune um in the last few days. So tell us [20:33] about that. Even today uh Avdor [20:36] Lieberman put out a tweet saying being [20:38] willing to compromise does not mean that [20:40] you're abandoning your values and your [20:42] principles. So he is very clearly kind [20:46] of warming to the idea of working with [20:49] the ultraorththodox even though he you [20:52] know his party was founded on this whole [20:54] idea of um you know secularism and not [20:58] having any religious coercion at all. [21:01] So, you know, it's very interesting that [21:04] he is willing to compromise on this [21:07] issue, but I think it comes down to the [21:09] fact that the other issues are even more [21:12] difficult for him to come down off the [21:15] tree on. One is uh allowing the Arab [21:18] parties into the government. He says [21:20] under no circumstances he will do that. [21:22] The other is allowing Netanyahu to [21:26] continue to be prime minister or even go [21:28] with Netanyahu in a unity government. He [21:31] says absolutely no way. And the third [21:33] thing is that he doesn't want to take [21:35] the country back to another round of [21:37] elections. So he has to he picked the [21:40] one thing that he was one thing out of [21:42] four very difficult choices that he was [21:45] willing to compromise on. And even today [21:48] in his post on X, he kind of brought up [21:52] this uh plan that he laid out for the [21:55] ultraorththodox draft in 2018 and said [21:58] we need to go back to this plan, maybe [22:00] tweak it here and there and then we can [22:02] uh work around it. So, you know, if it's [22:04] his idea, then he's probably into it. [22:06] Um, we'll have to see how it plays out, [22:08] like how far, you know, if he's willing [22:11] to to, you know, compromise on this. We [22:14] have to see how far the ultraorththodox [22:16] are going to be willing to compromise [22:18] from their end because also for the last [22:20] year all I've heard from the [22:22] ultraorththodox is absolutely no way no [22:25] way no way no way. I mean they have this [22:27] phrase when they go out protesting the [22:29] ultra orthodox we'd rather die than join [22:32] the army which is like wow you know so [22:35] we'll have to see if they are able to [22:38] walk that back a little bit [22:40] >> right in some ways Eisenat with his [22:42] principles is now drawing you know he [22:45] even as Lieberman was saying there's [22:48] flexibility [22:49] Eisenat is stressing these principles [22:52] which on the one hand there's a [22:53] compromise that it's not only military [22:55] service, but that everybody has to do [22:58] service. He doesn't seem to be bending. [23:01] So, it'll be interesting to see how that [23:03] plays out. Okay, that's it for today. [23:05] Thank you to our producer, Maya Rackoff. [23:08] Please make sure to join us tomorrow for [23:10] the next episode of Waiting for 61. And [23:12] don't forget to send your questions to [23:14] Waiting for 61 at jta.org. And if you're [23:17] enjoying Waiting for 61, please [23:19] subscribe and give us a five-star rating [23:21] wherever you listen to your podcasts.
