Transcript [00:00] Watch what goes down when Piers Morgan [00:02] and Norman Finkelstein accuse Hen Mazig [00:05] of being a baby killer. Take a look. [00:08] >> You know, you're an Israeli [00:10] sitting on this panel. You've just had [00:12] Norman Finkelstein say Israel is a [00:15] nation of child killers and explaining [00:17] why he believes that. What's your [00:18] response to that? [00:20] >> I'm just asking Norman, am I a child [00:22] killer? [00:24] That's what you just said. Am I a child [00:26] killer? I would say the probability is [00:28] the higher probability is yes I'm sorry [00:31] I'm a child killer that's correct [00:33] >> you understand how unhinged you sound [00:34] you had such a great career professor [00:37] it's such a shame that you're throwing [00:38] it all away with this unhinged [00:40] capitalizing to the freaking mob for [00:43] what Norman for what it's you're such an [00:45] embarrassment to your family to your [00:47] people honestly like you're calling me a [00:50] child murderer without even knowing me [00:52] and then you're saying that I am [00:53] >> did you serve in the IDF [00:55] >> I served as a humanitarian soldier. I [00:57] worked to save Palestinian civilians in [00:59] the West Bank. [00:59] >> Were you a propaganda for the Israeli [01:02] army? [01:03] >> I served as [01:03] >> Were you a propagandist during the [01:05] genocide? That doesn't make you much [01:07] different than [01:08] >> Gerbles. Do you want me to answer you or [01:09] you just uh or you just call going to [01:11] call me? [01:12] >> The one that's dominating. [01:13] >> Are you calling You're calling me a Nazi [01:15] and you're calling me a child murderer? [01:16] You are a rape denier. You spent years [01:18] writing a book that saying that Amit [01:21] Susna, a a victim that said I was raped [01:23] by kamas. You're saying that she Well, [01:26] maybe you shouldn't call it rape. Like, [01:27] look at you. You have have some decency, [01:29] man. Come on. Like, you're And then [01:32] you're telling you're asking me, "What [01:33] have I done?" [01:33] >> You have to learn to read. [01:35] >> The beginning is learning to read. [01:38] >> Yeah, I read very well. [01:39] >> I I'm not sure. [01:40] >> You know, I just think we've got to a [01:41] stage where people are getting bullied [01:43] into making public statements when [01:45] they'd rather not about these things [01:47] purely to tick somebody's box about [01:49] their virtue. And I feel uncomfortable [01:51] with that. [01:52] >> Yeah. And and that's why Norman and [01:54] others are are making the case that [01:56] Israelis are Nazis or that we are child [01:58] killers. All of us, the goal is this [02:00] deumanization campaign is meant to make [02:02] every celebrity and every artist think [02:04] twice before they're not only that [02:06] they're not defending Israel, but even [02:08] but even if they don't say free [02:10] Palestine, uh and then we hear arguments [02:12] that oh well, you know, we we need them [02:13] to it's about censorship. We don't want [02:16] them to be we don't want them to be uh [02:18] censored. Uh but then if someone stood [02:20] on stage and said free Israel, those [02:22] guests would be out here saying [02:24] absolutely cancel all of them. They [02:25] can't speak. So it's not about free [02:27] speech. I don't believe it's about free [02:28] speech. [02:28] >> Well, if Yeah. If they if they if MLmore [02:31] had been saying pro-Israeli stuff, [02:33] there's no way Robert Craft bans him [02:35] from that stadium. So there's the [02:37] hypocrisy there, right? Absolutely. I [02:39] mean, there's a wider point, Winston. [02:40] You've been a top uh music star. You are [02:43] you're still a great musician. Um, but [02:45] you know, the truth is if you've been [02:47] saying supportive things about Black [02:49] Lives Matter, you have never been [02:51] cancelled, right? And I also I'm [02:53] curious. I mean, [02:54] >> and if you say supportive things about [02:56] Israel, by the way, you can cancel. Look [02:58] what happened to Boy George last month. [02:59] He got [02:59] >> Well, that's true. It works, but it does [03:01] work. [03:01] >> It works. Look what happened to Radio [03:02] Head guitar player Johnny. Should a [03:05] support act be doing this at all? If [03:07] you're if you're supporting a headline [03:09] act like Ed Sheeran on a massive stadium [03:12] tour of the United States, should any [03:15] support act be using it as an [03:18] opportunity to score political points [03:20] that they care about when they're not [03:22] the headline act? Because if MLmore [03:24] doesn't do what he did, none of the rest [03:27] happens. It does seem like from my [03:30] perspective it looks like McLemore has [03:32] torn down the whole tour as much as he [03:35] can under a bus. But I don't we don't [03:38] know exactly totally what's going on [03:39] behind the scenes. If I may address [03:40] Glenn from uh earlier Glenn you said if [03:44] you get cancelled boohoo. Do you think [03:45] Mackmore got cancelled boohoo from the [03:47] stadium? Does it sort of boohoo you know [03:49] tough luck mate you said what you said [03:50] and there are consequences. Is that your [03:52] position on that? [03:54] Makammore actually got cancelled, which [03:56] is why it's so bizarre that Ed Sheeran [03:57] is now somehow the victim of cancel [03:59] culture. There's a huge difference [04:01] between being criticized and actually [04:03] being cancelled by a couple of Zionist [04:05] billionaires. [04:07] But even M even McLemore has said, [04:10] "Don't feel sorry for me. I'm not a [04:12] victim. I'm extremely wealthy. I'm safe [04:14] in my life. The real victims are people [04:16] in Gaza." Which is the kind of [04:18] perspective that a rational person [04:19] should have. Not, oh, I'm a public [04:21] figure. I've been expressing polarizing [04:24] views and now I'm being criticized. [04:25] Everyone feels sorry for me. This is the [04:27] pathetic grievance that people have been [04:30] invoking because they're being [04:32] criticized. And nobody, by the way, was [04:35] demanding take a position. Nobody Ed [04:37] Sheeran hadn't taken a position on [04:39] Israel and Gaza for 3 years. Nobody was [04:42] angry about that. Nobody was harassing. [04:44] >> I mean, somebody made a point on that. [04:46] Somebody made a very valid point that [04:48] there's no record of Ed Sheeran publicly [04:50] saying anything on his stage after [04:51] October the 7th for example. Right? So [04:54] you know for all the attempt to portray [04:56] himself as non-political he has McLemore [04:58] as his support act knowing what he [05:00] feels. He lets MLmore say what he say [05:03] without any condemnation from Ed [05:05] Sheeran. It's only when the backlash [05:06] comes that Ed Sheeran feels compelled to [05:09] say what he says. I would I think he [05:11] shouldn't have said anything. And I [05:12] certainly think crying on stage when [05:14] this debate really comes down to MLmore [05:17] saying it was a genocide in Gaza and you [05:19] know too many children are being [05:20] slaughtered. Uh it seems a little bit me [05:23] me and self-pitying. So I don't think [05:25] that Ed's played this at all. Why would [05:27] it been I think he's been very naive. [05:29] Let me ask you though Glenn before [05:30] before we wrap up here. you know, think [05:32] there's been a a fiery exchange here [05:34] between uh Norman and and Hen and I [05:37] understand why. When Norman turned to [05:40] Hen Mazic and says, "You are a child [05:42] killer." [05:42] >> I said, "Probably." [05:44] >> Okay. But how do you feel about that, [05:45] Glenn, when you hear that? [05:48] >> I mean, I do think there's a difference [05:50] between a democratic society that [05:51] constantly ratifies certain policies [05:53] overwhelmingly. I mean, they elected [05:55] Netanyahu. They probably are about to [05:57] again. Even if they don't, it won't be [05:59] the alternative won't be somebody who [06:00] thinks there was too much force used in [06:02] Gaza. If anything, they may think that [06:04] there wasn't enough. But and I also [06:06] think very quickly that as a journalist, [06:08] I don't think you should be so [06:10] dismissive of lies that are told. Kind [06:12] of like, oh, Hamas is bad, so just say [06:14] whatever you want about them. There were [06:15] so many lies spread in that first week [06:17] that they beheaded babies, they cut [06:19] wombs [06:21] out of babies out of women's wombs, that [06:24] they uh baked babies in ovens. It's like [06:27] saying, "Oh, who cares about [06:28] >> they were quickly?" [06:30] I would say, "Yeah, but Glenn, I would [06:32] say they were quickly debunked. I [06:34] remember those stories. It was 40 [06:35] beheaded babies." None of that was true. [06:37] A baby was [06:38] >> Huckabe just said it again this week. [06:41] >> And to be clear, it's not true. And I [06:43] think we had it in the first week we [06:45] were on air after after October 7th. I [06:47] think it was repeated here. And we then [06:48] made it clear there's no actual evidence [06:50] for that. The difference between that [06:52] and the rape allegations, sexual assault [06:54] allegations against Hamas is that Norman [06:56] says he's seen no photographic evidence. [07:00] But I but I have seen a lot of evidence [07:02] reported by the likes of Christina Lamb, [07:04] who's a a fantastic award-winning [07:07] foreign correspondent from her [07:08] interviews with people who say that they [07:10] were sexually abused or raped. There may [07:13] not be footage of it. Correct. There may [07:15] not be footage of it, but it doesn't [07:16] mean to say it didn't happen. Correct. [07:18] She couldn't. I'm just dying to ask Ken [07:20] I'm just dying to ask Ken one question [07:22] because Norman said the reason I say [07:24] this is because you seem like a [07:25] propagandist for the IDF on this [07:27] question of uh starvation and and the [07:30] Israelis using starvation as a weapon. [07:32] Hen, what was your position on that? Did [07:34] you deny it? Did you justify it or did [07:36] you bank during the war? It's such a [07:39] nice gotcha. If you look at my ex [07:41] account, you would see that I condemned [07:43] it and I actually supported the people [07:44] that were protesting the Israelis that [07:46] were at the Gaza border calling to allow [07:48] humanitarian aid. And for 5 years in my [07:50] military service, I worked to provide [07:52] humanitarian aid and I was leazing with [07:54] UNRA, the Red Cross and international [07:56] organizations in the West Bank in Gaza [07:57] and in so I mean you all immediately [08:00] decided that because I'm Israeli, I am a [08:03] Nazi and that's the problem. You guys [08:05] are not able to see how fanatic you are. [08:08] I don't think that anything audience [08:11] glen in Glenn in the context of his [08:14] response which is pretty robust to put [08:16] it mildly. [08:17] >> What would you say? [08:18] >> It's not it's not he mentioned Ben [08:20] Gavir. This had nothing to do with Ben [08:22] Gavir. It was Yo Golant the defense [08:24] minister who in the very first week said [08:26] we are not allowing anything into Gaza. [08:28] No food, no water, no medicine, no fuel, [08:30] nothing. These people are animals. And [08:32] then for the next two years, multiple [08:34] times the Israeli government blocked all [08:37] food from entering Gaza to the point [08:38] where the population, as Norman said, [08:40] half of whom our children were starving. [08:42] Starving to the point of famine as every [08:45] organization said around the world. I [08:47] also want to know what was your position [08:48] on that. I said that they deserve to [08:50] have humanitarian aid. I said that [08:52] continuously. All I said right now is [08:54] that I condemn what Banker said and yes [08:55] and I think what Yav Galan said. He said [08:57] later that he meant kamas. It wasn't [08:59] clear that he was speaking about Hamas [09:00] and the action was problematic and I was [09:02] calling it out. I still call it out. [09:04] What's your point, Glenn? What are you [09:05] trying to prove here? Are you trying to [09:07] prove something about Are you trying to [09:09] prove something about the worst things [09:10] possible? The Israelis did one of the [09:12] worst things possible, which is use [09:15] starvation as a weapon for collective [09:17] punishment against a population half of [09:19] whom are children. Every potential [09:22] candidate that might become the next [09:23] prime minister, if Netanyahu doesn't [09:25] agrees with that policy, never has [09:27] denounced it. is going into Gaza. There [09:30] is many humanitarian aid going into [09:31] Gaza. The population decline what you're [09:34] saying [09:37] the one thing the one thing we tal we [09:39] talked about freedom of of speech, [09:41] freedom of press in this debate. I do [09:43] think I I can wrap things up by saying [09:45] the one thing I'm sure we can all agree [09:47] on is that the ongoing ban by the [09:49] Netanyahu government not allowing [09:52] international media to operate freely in [09:54] Gaza despite there being a supposed [09:56] ceasefire is an ongoing disgrace and a [09:59] terrible suppression of freedom of [10:01] speech of a free press. And actually a [10:04] lot of the answers to the questions [10:06] could be answered if journalists were [10:08] allowed to do their job. Brilliant job [10:09] there by both Hen Mazig and uh the [10:12] incredible Winston Marshall uh refuting [10:15] this idea that somehow Zionists are baby [10:18] killers. And it it is incredible how it [10:21] is somehow okay to call the entire [10:24] Israel somehow responsible. Even if you [10:27] do believe that Gaza was terrible and [10:29] you know some of the atrocities [10:30] committed were you know it was too far [10:34] to equate that with the entire Israeli [10:37] population now being responsible would [10:39] be like after you know the Holocaust [10:42] going and saying that you know every [10:45] German is a Nazi. you know, obviously [10:47] that makes no sense. And of course, none [10:50] of these people are baby killers. They [10:52] are heroes, uh, you know, on the front [10:54] lines protecting their people. Um, I [10:57] think it's very hard for uh IDF soldiers [10:59] to go into Gaza, do what they have to [11:03] do, literally, you know, risking their [11:05] lives, getting terrible PTSD, and then [11:09] coming back and being labeled a baby [11:11] killer and somebody who is a genocider [11:14] and somebody who is supposed to be [11:16] looked down upon by the world. It's like [11:19] you you're you're supposed to get a [11:21] hero's welcome and instead you are going [11:24] and being admonished by the entirety of [11:28] the international community and I think [11:30] it's very hard. Now obviously that [11:32] doesn't apply in Israel. They recognize [11:34] that the entire world has gone insane. [11:36] Uh but it is a little bit frustrating I [11:39] think uh for people that go to Gaza, go [11:41] to Lebanon and defend their country and [11:44] then are admonished by everybody as if [11:46] they did some unspeakable evil. Thank [11:48] you for watching and I'll see you in the [11:50] next
