Transcript [00:00] This is the final chapter of a [00:01] three-part series in the history of [00:03] Christian Zionism and the USIsrael [00:05] relationship. In the first two chapters, [00:08] we discuss the origins of Christian [00:09] Zionism and the history of the USIrael [00:12] relationship, especially in the 19th and [00:15] 20th century. But now we fast forward. [00:18] Why is it that in the 21st century, [00:21] Christian Zionists continue to support [00:23] Israel, but on the other hand, many [00:26] opponents continue to grow in their [00:28] hatred not only of Israel and the Jewish [00:31] people, but also of the USIsrael [00:33] relationship and those who support it. [00:35] Let's find out. [01:02] The oil in the Middle East has been a [01:05] major strategic interest for the United [01:07] States basically since Franklin [01:08] Roosevelt was president. Um it was you [01:12] know for some of that time uh in this [01:14] from the 1970s through about the 201s [01:18] the United States is actually heavily [01:20] dependent on Middle East oil for own [01:23] consumption but before and after that we [01:25] haven't been you know thanks to fracking [01:27] now things have changed but back in the [01:29] 40s and 50s we were also a major oil [01:32] exporter [01:33] um but so it was never necessarily just [01:36] about oil for ourselves but the role of [01:39] oil in the world economy and that if any [01:43] country the Soviet Union, Nasser's [01:45] Egypt, [01:47] um the uh the the Iranian Mull if any [01:51] country had the power to close the [01:54] straight of Hormuz that was seen or [01:57] otherwise to to dominate that region in [01:59] a way that they could blackmail the [02:02] world economy over oil that was seen as [02:04] a fundamental challenge to American [02:08] security, economic interests, and so on. [02:11] You might say, well, why would you think [02:13] that when, you know, America doesn't [02:16] need the oil ourselves? Well, I mean, as [02:18] many of us have seen recently, it's [02:20] partly because we may have plenty of oil [02:24] in a physical sense, but the price is a [02:27] it's anal commodity, and when the price [02:29] goes up, it goes up for us, too. So our [02:31] our price at the pump or to heat our [02:34] homes and whatever goes up when somebody [02:36] tries to close the straight. But also um [02:40] you know think about suppose there's no [02:43] oil for Japan or China or Europe. What [02:47] happens to those economies? You know the [02:50] answer is you know they they crash. Well [02:53] what happens if that's happening? What [02:55] happens to American companies that sell [02:58] to them? that's happening on stock [03:00] markets globally, financial markets. [03:03] It's been seen that any country that's [03:06] able to blackmail the world economy with [03:08] the kind of financial and economic chaos [03:11] that blocking that oil would cause is a [03:15] danger to the sort of prosperity and [03:18] stability that America since World War [03:20] II has wanted and tried to to help [03:23] provide. [03:25] Um, [03:26] and so Israel, interestingly, [03:30] is a country that has a kind of, you [03:32] know, it's kind of aligned with us there [03:35] because if there's a country that is [03:37] strong enough to control the Gulf and [03:40] control the region, that's a country [03:42] that threatens Israel's existence. So if [03:46] Nasser had been able to achieve his [03:48] ambition and build a pan-Arab coalition [03:52] that owned all the oil, it would have [03:55] absolutely threatened the existence of [03:57] Israel. [03:59] If today the Iran if the Iranian mullers [04:01] were able to build that kind of power [04:04] network, Israel's existence would be [04:06] threatened. If the Soviet Union had done [04:09] it in the Cold War, Israel would have [04:11] had to like take whatever terms Moscow [04:13] wanted to give it. So, Israel and the [04:16] United States have this core strategic [04:20] interest. We don't want any other [04:23] country to dominate the Middle East in a [04:27] way that they could block the flow of [04:30] oil. [04:36] When we get to the question of values, [04:39] you know, that gets tricky. That gets [04:41] tricky. Um, Israel is a democracy, [04:46] remains a democracy. We are a democracy, [04:49] remain a democracy. Um, neither one of [04:52] us is a perfect democracy. [04:55] Um, many of the people who are angriest [04:58] about the way that Israel treats [05:00] Palestinians are also angriest about the [05:04] way Americans treat blacks and other [05:06] racial and ethnic minorities. [05:09] Uh so you know oddly um some of our [05:13] deepest critics see us as aligned rather [05:16] than non-aligned. [05:18] Um [05:19] I don't think I think Israel [05:24] is a country whose fundamental ideas [05:29] about liberty and about world order are [05:33] compatible with ours. Uh and I think [05:36] that the Jewish movement of Zionism, the [05:41] national movement of the Jewish people [05:43] is very much comes out of and reflects [05:48] the same ideas and values that reflect [05:52] the nationalist movements of European [05:55] countries from Poland and the Czech [05:58] Republic to Italy and France. [06:03] Um, I think that [06:06] certainly when you look at the sort of [06:09] technological creativity, [06:12] commitment to innovation, Israelis and [06:15] Americans are basically operating out of [06:18] the same playbook. [06:26] There's another thing about USIsrael [06:28] policy and that is most Americans don't [06:33] really pay that much attention to [06:36] foreign policy. Um, you know, it's it's [06:39] kind of something that's way out there. [06:41] Dean Aerson, a former Secretary of [06:43] State, once said that he thought the [06:45] average American had about 10 minutes a [06:48] week to devote to the study of foreign [06:50] affairs. It might not even be that much [06:53] to tell you the truth. However, [06:56] there is one topic that is an incredible [07:00] hot button for millions of Americans. [07:03] Some because they just love Israel to [07:05] pieces and some because they absolutely [07:08] hate it. Right? And that is Israel, [07:11] Palestine, that whole complex of things. [07:13] It's such a hot topic. You can get riots [07:16] on college campuses about it. You can [07:18] get people breaking up with their [07:20] significant others about it. You can [07:23] have family fights. You can have street [07:25] fights. You can have people screaming at [07:28] each other on social media or whatever [07:30] over this one thing. [07:33] Now, for presidents, that's very [07:35] interesting. You could see this when [07:38] when uh Joe Biden was president that [07:41] when he felt that he was kind of losing [07:44] support on the left of the party and [07:47] needed to sort of shore that support up, [07:49] he could say, "Well, you know, [07:51] Palestinians have rights too and they [07:54] they also deserve some consideration and [07:57] Israel is really going too far in Gaza." [08:00] And then you get all of these people on [08:02] the left wing of the party saying, "Yes, [08:04] Joe Biden, you're not nearly as bad as [08:06] we thought. You know, this is terrific. [08:09] That's great." But then if he thinks, [08:11] "Uhoh, I'm losing it on the right of the [08:13] party or with the center. I don't know." [08:16] He'd say, "Israel has the right to [08:19] defend itself." And everybody goes, "Oh, [08:21] yes." [08:23] Now, the thing is the president can say [08:26] either of those things and it doesn't [08:29] cost you a penny. You don't have to send [08:32] any troops anywhere. You don't have to [08:35] do anything. But by just giving a little [08:38] tiny diplomatic signal, you can produce [08:41] a huge political effect. [08:46] This is a very useful thing for [08:49] presidents of both parties regardless of [08:53] their actual feelings about the [08:55] underlying issues. [08:58] So when you try to think about the [09:00] USIsrael relationship, what you can see [09:03] is on the one hand a kind of a strategic [09:06] link that might wayne or wax under [09:10] different conditions. If no particular [09:12] country looks like it's about to [09:15] dominate the Middle East, then that [09:18] USIsraeli common interest kind of fades [09:20] into the background. But if it looks [09:23] like somebody really is on the verge of [09:25] making that move, then suddenly we're [09:27] back together. [09:30] So it doesn't mean this common strategic [09:33] interest doesn't mean we're always [09:34] aligned, always focused uh in exactly [09:37] the same way, but it means in moments of [09:39] crisis, we tend to come together. But [09:41] then on the other side, there's the [09:43] political signaling [09:46] and presidents will be constantly trying [09:49] to kind of weave a path between the [09:53] strategic realities and the political [09:55] signaling. [10:02] By the way, the signaling isn't just [10:04] domestic. [10:06] if you know the king of Saudi Arabia [10:09] might come to the president of United [10:10] States say look I need a favor by the [10:14] way this is not the king talking but me [10:17] Saudi Arabia like Israel and like the [10:20] United States does not want any power [10:23] whether it's Iran or Egypt or the Russia [10:26] or anybody dominating that region [10:29] because that's a threat to their [10:31] independence and wealth and they don't [10:32] want they don't want that and while you [10:36] We're supposed to think, oh, there's the [10:37] Jewish lobby and the Arab lobby. Very, [10:40] very often, most of the Gulf Arabs and [10:44] the Israelis are quietly aligned. [10:47] Sometimes more obviously, like with the [10:49] Abraham Accords, but even when that's [10:52] not going on, they very, very often sort [10:56] of see things from similar angles. Not [10:59] identical, but similar. Any case, the [11:02] king of Saudi Arabia might come into the [11:03] White House and say, "Look, I want to [11:05] help you with this, but you know, you're [11:07] you're messaging about Israel and the [11:09] Palestinians has been so much. It's [11:11] creating political problems for me at [11:12] home." And the president might well say, [11:15] "Okay, fine." And then issue a [11:17] statement, you know, criticizing Israel [11:20] over something less because he's really [11:23] mad at Israel than because he knows this [11:25] will actually, you know, this will help [11:27] some of his Arab friends. There's all [11:30] kinds of stuff going on here. It makes a [11:34] certain amount of sense once you [11:36] understand the the interests of the [11:39] different parties and how they're trying [11:42] to manage their own political [11:43] situations. But but the combination of [11:48] signaling either to domestic or to [11:51] international audiences plus strategic [11:54] connection has a lot to do with American [11:58] policy toward Israel. [12:04] So you might ask now so what's the point [12:07] of whether you call them Christian [12:10] Zionist organizations or groups like [12:12] Apac or whatever you know do they [12:14] actually move the needle when do they [12:16] move the needle what I would say is this [12:20] um [12:24] there are there are certain ways in [12:27] which a political lobby not just on this [12:30] stuff but on anything can kind of in [12:33] normal times quietly just, you know, [12:36] make things go pretty well. Um, you're [12:41] not really getting anybody within [12:43] limits. You can nudge a policy this way [12:46] or that way. It it it helps a president [12:51] when normal when say doing something [12:54] that is strategically important really [12:57] actually also gives you political [12:58] benefits at home. And that I think has [13:01] been a major force that [13:05] presidents supporting, you know, even [13:07] for Joe Biden uh for whom supporting [13:10] Israel was not universally popular in [13:12] his party. The fact that there were a [13:15] lot of Democrats and there still are [13:17] Democrats who supported Israel and [13:20] supported Biden for supporting Israel [13:22] made it easier for something to do that [13:25] I think he would have tried to do [13:27] anyway. [13:34] It's interesting to see how not just in [13:36] the US but globally attitudes toward [13:40] Israel actually track with attitudes [13:42] toward capitalism. [13:44] That is to say by and well in as in the [13:47] 40s and 50s being pro-Israel was a mark [13:50] of being on the left. increasingly being [13:54] pro-Israel is a mark of like liking [13:58] capitalism and and you can find you know [14:01] you go to Germany and you if you know [14:04] somebody's opinion about Israel you can [14:05] probably predict their opinion about the [14:07] United States about NATO and about free [14:10] markets. So, Israel, Israel attitudes [14:14] are part of a kind of an ideological [14:16] package. [14:18] And when people move toward a kind of [14:21] like doubt in capitalism or resistance [14:24] or opposition to capitalism, they tend [14:27] to buy up a lot of other beliefs that [14:29] are sort of seen to come with it. And [14:31] one of them is the is, you know, being [14:34] anti-Israel. [14:36] Um, obviously at the current time, [14:39] Israel has been in the middle of the [14:42] longest, bloodiest and most brutal war [14:45] of its history, you know, since the [14:48] October 2023 attacks. Um, Israel has [14:52] been at war almost every day since then. [14:55] Uh, the the casualties are appalling. [14:58] The damage in Gaza is is unbelievable. [15:03] And again for a lot of you know and and [15:05] there's a lot of global publicity on [15:08] this. I mean worse things can happen in [15:11] a place like Sudan but it doesn't [15:14] register on people's sort of media [15:17] consciousness or or ideological [15:20] consciousness as the way that things do [15:22] in Gaza. So it's a very highprofile [15:26] very emotionally [15:28] charged and polarizing kind of thing. [15:31] And we've seen in the past, by the way, [15:33] that in Israel's wars, support for [15:35] Israel drops. It dropped in around 1980 [15:40] quite significantly over war in Lebanon. [15:43] Um, and many people actually at that [15:45] time thought that Israel had lost the [15:47] younger generation forever and that [15:50] American public opinion would never be [15:52] the same about Israel. In fact, it sort [15:56] of bounced back and went on to become [15:58] more pro-Israel after that war than [16:00] before ultimately partly helped by 911. [16:04] But [16:06] um this is a longer war. The effect [16:09] could well be lasting. I don't know the [16:11] future. People's attitudes toward Israel [16:13] will likely evolve in other ways. [16:21] Another part of the package [16:24] is this idea of Israel as a as a [16:27] colonial enterprise or a colonial state. [16:30] Sort of white, blueeyed, blondhaired, [16:34] northern people coming to kick a bunch [16:36] of browneyed, uh, brownskinned people [16:39] out of their ancestral lands. [16:42] uh which is not actually a very good [16:45] description of of what happened in the [16:48] modern state of Israel. Uh true there [16:51] are refugees from Europe who were part [16:53] of the uh Israeli population, but more [16:56] Israelis today are actually descended [16:59] from Middle Eastern Jews who were uh [17:03] either forced to leave or or fled um the [17:07] Arab mostly Arab countries also Persia, [17:10] Iran to some degree where they where [17:13] their ancestors had lived for hundreds [17:14] or thousands of years. So it's um but [17:18] still it's kind of it's gotten itself [17:21] embedded in this in in this view of the [17:24] world. You can look at a country like [17:26] Ireland [17:28] where the resentment against British [17:31] colonialism in Ireland and the settling [17:35] back in the 1700s of a lot of ScotsIrish [17:38] Protestants in what is now Northern [17:41] Ireland is still this kind of open [17:43] historical wound for many people and [17:46] people and people a lot of people in the [17:49] Republic of Ireland look at what's [17:51] happening in with Israel Israelis and [17:54] Palestine Inians as this is what [17:56] happened to us. It's the same thing that [17:59] happened to us and it raises these [18:01] feelings. The al in Algeria they say [18:05] this is just like what the French did in [18:07] Algeria. [18:09] In Malaysia they say this is like how [18:12] the British let all those Chinese into [18:14] into the Melee Peninsula and gave us [18:18] this large Chinese minority that we [18:20] still don't want. So it kind of echoes [18:25] it it it crystallizes for a lot of [18:28] people these kind of anti-imperial [18:32] anti-immigration instincts of the past [18:37] and this this is this situation which I [18:40] think again is historically quite [18:42] different but it it elicits these [18:45] emotions [18:47] and the kind of anti-colonial [18:50] postcolonial discourse has is kind of [18:52] intellectually fashionable in the US [18:54] these days and you know often younger [18:58] people are more exposed to intellectual [19:00] fashion than older people and I think [19:03] this is this is part of the change that [19:05] we're seeing. [19:11] Yeah, we're we are seeing [19:14] um I would say certainly not a majority [19:17] or even I think in numbers and polls a [19:20] very large number but we are seeing a [19:23] kind of media significant and maybe even [19:27] socially significant um uh change in [19:32] attitudes toward Israel and and more [19:35] fundamentally toward Jews in some [19:38] sections of the right. this is, you [19:41] know, and I think, you know, several [19:43] things are going on here. One of them is [19:46] is is just a return to normality in that [19:50] there's frankly always been a certain [19:52] amount of anti-semitism [19:54] just, you know, on the right in the [19:57] United States. William F. Buckley called [19:59] Pat Buchanan an anti-semite. [20:02] And you can certainly go back in uh in [20:06] American history and find, you know, a [20:09] lot of examples in the in the Klux Clan [20:12] and other groups on the kind of radical [20:15] right who saw Jews in a in a kind of [20:19] conspiratorial way. They're not like us. [20:21] They have a secret agenda, etc., etc., [20:24] etc., and that, you know, so that but [20:27] that would not account for everything [20:28] that's happening. [20:31] Some of it I think is um a result of [20:35] really the the deep feelings that are [20:37] building up about the high levels of [20:39] migration to the United States. Earlier [20:41] we talked about how in the 1920s, [20:45] the last time that that migration [20:47] reached this kind of percentage in in [20:50] the American population. Um there was [20:53] there was almost a national frenzy to [20:55] stop immigration and we slammed the [20:57] doors pretty tightly shut for almost 50 [21:00] years until the late 1960s. [21:03] Uh we may be going through something in [21:07] some ways similar to that today. Jews [21:10] now are not really part of the mig [21:12] migration wave. Then they were only a [21:15] quite small minority of the migration [21:17] wave. Nevertheless, [21:20] um when you when you're afraid that the [21:22] things that you when you feel that the [21:25] country, you know, is being taken away [21:28] from you by them, [21:30] um there's there's a often a sense that [21:35] well maybe the Jews are part of the [21:37] them. [21:39] And it is, [21:40] you know, historically [21:43] and even today, most American Jews are [21:45] liberal in their ideology [21:48] and they have generally and progressive. [21:51] Um, and so you can look at advocates for [21:55] open immigration and so on, and there [21:57] are a lot of Jewish names on those [21:59] lists. [22:01] So, it's easy to kind of [22:05] come up with some idea of an organized [22:08] conspiracy. [22:16] Uh, conspiracy theories always interest [22:19] me because what they what they really [22:23] are is they're sort of they're kind of [22:25] they're they're attempts to explain [22:28] the very complex and often frustrating [22:31] facts of modern life. [22:33] They they're a grand simplification [22:36] that ma that that [22:39] may not make you feel better about [22:40] what's happening, but give you at least [22:42] the the the illusion or the feeling that [22:45] you understand it. And that's that's [22:48] better. [22:50] But anti-semitism in particular is what [22:53] I've written about as a stupidifying [22:56] mind virus. That is it once you once you [23:00] come to an idea like okay the Jews [23:03] control banking what this means is you [23:06] lose any hope of ever understanding how [23:09] the financial system actually works [23:12] because you have this kind of conspiracy [23:14] theory there's a they and they make the [23:17] banks do this and they make the banks do [23:19] this and that's why they're do this is [23:21] why they're doing it. So and then you [23:24] stop. You don't you don't stay curious. [23:27] you don't you don't test that [23:29] hypothesis. You feel like, okay, I've [23:31] got it now. And as you do this, and I [23:35] think we can see this in some of the [23:37] right-wing influencers who sort of start [23:40] out with a few very superficial or, you [23:44] know, [23:46] kind of mild [23:48] versions of conspiracy theory, but [23:50] before long are just spouting the most [23:53] ridiculous nonsense. nonsense that to [23:55] their serves, their sinner selves would [23:58] have recognized and sort of descend into [24:01] this kind of paranoia, pit of paranoia [24:06] and frankly stupidity. [24:09] Uh so there's so we're seeing this [24:12] happen. I think it's it partly reflects [24:16] the cultural dislocation of our time. [24:19] Um, populism often leads to waves of [24:23] anti-semitism. [24:24] You know, William Jennings Brian's [24:26] famous speech at the 1896 Democratic [24:30] Convention where he says, "Thou shalt [24:34] not crucify mankind upon a cross of [24:36] gold." That's actually an anti-Semitic [24:39] dog whistle because you know who [24:42] allegedly crucified Jesus? The Jews. Who [24:46] are the userious bankers who are you [24:50] know in a clandestine way manipulating [24:52] finance? The Jews. So thou shalt not [24:57] crucify mankind upon a cross of gold. [25:01] Um [25:03] and that so when you have this kind of [25:06] sense of the establishment [25:08] as an all powerful mysterious [25:12] deeply evil force pedophilia you know it [25:16] just all piles up. Um the Jews very [25:20] often emerge as you know the best [25:24] scapegoat for this kind of thinking. And [25:28] I'm afraid that some people at least are [25:30] falling into this pit. I hope honestly I [25:32] I hope to God that as a as a people and [25:35] a nation uh we continue to avoid the the [25:40] deepest depths of this kind of of [25:44] thinking because it it truly it leads [25:46] nowhere good. [25:54] Look, I do think that there there are [25:56] people who clearly do think that the [25:58] United States and Israel have no [26:00] interests and no values in common. [26:03] That's, you know, I I I see that they [26:06] think that. [26:07] Um I actually I I think it's I think [26:10] that is certainly on the interest level [26:13] and to me that seems clearly wrong. Um, [26:15] the United States and Israel both share [26:18] an interest in preventing any hostile [26:22] power from controlling the flow of oil [26:26] from the Middle East to world markets in [26:29] ways that could be used to blackmail the [26:33] global economy and to blackmail a [26:35] president of the United States. That [26:36] seems actually to me very clear. Now, we [26:39] might have to, you know, the Israelis [26:42] might want to deal with that problem one [26:44] way and we might want to deal with it [26:46] another. And that, you know, you see [26:49] that even in the Trump administration [26:50] that Netanyahu and Trump don't always [26:53] agree on what to do. But I think um uh [26:57] it's clear that when they disagree [27:00] um Trump, you know, has had the final [27:03] card to play. That is to say, you know, [27:06] BB can ask and he can scream and whine [27:10] and he can dance around on the floor, [27:13] but at the end, Trump does what Trump [27:15] thinks is best for him. Um, and I, you [27:20] know, you sort of part of the problem [27:22] with this Americans as puppets thing is [27:25] you not, it's not only a conspiracy [27:27] theory about how smart Jews are, it's a [27:30] theory about how stupid we are. Okay, we [27:34] are supposedly simple sons of the soil, [27:37] those scheming, you know, Jewish [27:40] manipulators. We're no match for them [27:42] because we're just plain innocent and [27:44] dumb. Okay, I don't honestly think [27:47] that's true. If you look at the record [27:50] of the United States in the last 100 [27:53] years, we beat we we without us, Nazism, [27:58] fascism would not have been destroyed. [28:00] Communism would not have been destroyed. [28:03] We've screwed plenty of things up. But [28:06] technologically, [28:08] socially, economically, what the United [28:11] what Americans have done in the last [28:14] hundred years just sort of would blow [28:18] away any country in the history of the [28:21] world by comparison. It's an [28:23] extraordinary record of cultural [28:25] innovation, technological invention, [28:30] economic [28:31] um creativity [28:34] and and actually political [28:38] cleverness. [28:40] Um, so you know to to sort of think that [28:44] we're just this kind of like stupid cow [28:47] being led by the nose by these sort of [28:50] brilliant prancing Jewish elves who are [28:53] 10 times smarter than we are is kind of [28:56] stupid. And it it strikes me that many [29:00] of the people who think that that's the [29:03] case are actually sort of stupider maybe [29:05] than the average American. [29:08] I do not actually think that the United [29:11] States of America is being controlled by [29:14] anybody. I mean, it's it's our politics. [29:20] Israel um [29:22] you know, Israel is a country with its [29:24] own interests, its own vision. In some [29:26] cases, they align with ours, and some [29:28] cases they don't. American presidents [29:31] sometimes get foreign policy right. They [29:33] very often get it wrong. But our but our [29:36] record is our own. Our mistakes are [29:39] mistakes that we make for our reasons [29:42] and our successes come in the same way. [29:46] Thank you Walter for your many insights. [29:48] We appreciate your wealth of knowledge [29:51] and generosity and sharing it with us. [29:54] For those who are watching, thank you [29:56] for watching. I also would like to [29:58] commend to you all of Walter's writings, [30:01] but especially his book, The Ark of a [30:03] Covenant. This book is Walter's work [30:06] that covers all of these themes in much [30:08] greater detail and you would very much [30:10] enjoy it if you have enjoyed these [30:12] videos. If you would like any additional [30:14] resources, please do email us at [30:17] education passagesisrael.org [30:20] or by leaving a comment below on any of [30:22] these videos. Thank you again for [30:24] watching and we'll see you next time.
