Transcript [00:00] I do want to get to the Lindsay Clancy [00:01] case because like you said there are [00:03] people [00:04] we have very different I don't know if [00:06] we have very different but I you know I [00:07] think we probably do. [00:09] We We okay so just I just want to show [00:11] one clip really quick cuz I hadn't [00:13] actually seen this. [00:15] Well actually have two clips. The first [00:17] one is the doctor who treated Lindsay [00:19] Clancy testified that there was never [00:22] signs of psychosis and I fully admit to [00:24] you and I said on my show I have not I [00:26] did not watch the trial every day. I was [00:27] not like a hardcore Lindsay Clancy like [00:30] I didn't watch it like like the O.J. [00:32] trial. So just please keep this in mind [00:34] but I want to play number four. [00:36] >> Did you ever in this visit see signs of [00:40] mania? [00:40] >> No. [00:41] >> And is that something you look for? [00:43] >> Yes. [00:44] >> And did you ever see signs of delusions [00:47] or paranoia? [00:47] >> No. [00:48] >> How about psychosis? [00:49] >> No. [00:50] >> Would it surprise you to know that they [00:51] indicated that they couldn't treat her [00:53] as a woman with postpartum [00:55] psychosis or postpartum depression or [00:57] postpartum anxiety or any of that? [01:00] Because their [01:02] opinion was that she was suffering from [01:05] an over medication. [01:06] >> It would surprise me, yes. [01:09] >> Okay, I want to show one more clip if [01:11] you don't mind. So [01:13] the one juror who would not give a not [01:16] guilty [01:19] plea [snorts] I don't know the jargon [01:20] for it. The female jurors on the case [01:22] have been complaining about him number [01:23] five. [01:24] >> Arrogant. [01:26] He really did not take anything that [01:30] anybody said. [01:31] The nurses he he tried to ask a question [01:35] about the medications and we went back [01:38] to [01:39] the report from Southshore Hospital. We [01:42] had the toxicology report. We could see [01:44] exactly the amounts. The nurses in the [01:47] room spoke to that and talked [01:50] >> the jury. There were nurses on the jury. [01:52] >> Yes. And they spoke to that that [01:55] specific thing. That was a question that [01:57] he had. [01:59] And he just completely disregarded the [02:02] information that they gave him. [02:03] >> I mean, he had reasonable doubt. He [02:05] admitted he had reasonable doubt after [02:07] we watched that video of the interview. [02:10] I think that's when it was. [02:12] He admitted he had reasonable doubt and [02:14] I started filling out the forms. I was [02:16] so excited. I actually There were three [02:19] forms I had to fill out and I started [02:22] filling them out. I wrote my signature [02:24] on each one and then he said, "But I'm [02:27] still not going to say that she's not [02:30] guilty with by reason of insanity." [02:33] >> Okay. So, [02:35] I [02:36] the Lindsay Clancy case, I feel the most [02:38] trad, if you will, about this, Kristen, [02:40] because I know that for some reason this [02:42] has been turned into like a a maga [02:44] thing, which I guess I'm on the side of. [02:46] For me, like I just don't care about [02:49] what Lindsay Clancy was going through. I [02:51] don't care that she uh claims to have [02:54] psychosis, although the doctor said that [02:56] she didn't. I think she strangled her [02:59] children with exercise bands and that's [03:02] all I need to know and as far as I'm [03:04] concerned, she could get the electric [03:05] chair. [03:06] I know you disagree with me. Tell me [03:08] your take and your perspective on this [03:10] and what you think of those female [03:11] jurors shaming the the guy who wouldn't [03:13] give the verdict the excuse me, guilty [03:15] verdict. [03:16] Not guilty, whatever he did. Sorry. [03:18] >> Well, my concern actually is is not so [03:21] much about Lindsay Clancy herself or [03:24] even the sentence that she gets. I am [03:26] concerned about the way that I think and [03:28] I'm not talking about you with this, but [03:30] just what I'm seeing in general online, [03:33] by the way that this has now been made a [03:35] kind of a referendum on women and [03:38] women's competence in society and [03:41] women's sanity. And and and I think that [03:44] there has been an effort online to say [03:46] that if you think that a not guilty by [03:49] reason of insanity verdict would have [03:51] been appropriate here that you are [03:53] somehow dropping the ball ethically, [03:55] morally, that uh you are ashamed to [03:59] women and that you are conceding then [04:01] that women are all just a bunch of [04:03] crazies who can't be trusted with jobs [04:06] or the 19th Amendment. Uh [04:09] and and I would say, "Well, it's it's [04:10] interesting here. If women can't be [04:11] trusted based on this case, I think [04:13] actually the lesson is women can't be [04:15] trusted to have children and be [04:17] traditional moms maybe would be the [04:18] lesson if we're going to extract one." [04:20] But I actually I don't I don't like the [04:22] way people are making this I don't like [04:24] the way that this case has become has [04:27] been has become a kind of referendum on [04:30] women and on women's place in society. [04:32] And I I just what I would say is that [04:35] even if you disagree with an insanity [04:38] verdict, this is something that we have [04:40] been doing this has been a a staple of [04:43] Western jurisprudence for many, many [04:45] years, not just decades. I mean, [04:47] hundreds of years. Someone was talking [04:49] about online how it goes back to even [04:51] the classical Roman systems in a way [04:53] that there was this understanding that [04:56] good people could because of a [04:59] significant psychological defect, in [05:02] this case medication or postpartum, that [05:04] good people could for a period of time [05:07] lose their faculties to such an extent [05:09] that they really are not in control of [05:11] their behavior in the sense that we [05:13] would normally hold people criminally [05:15] responsible for. Now, the problem with [05:17] this is that as you know, it's a very [05:19] fuzzy line. I for one have always [05:22] believed that mental illness plays much [05:24] more of a role in what we consider to be [05:26] evil than people want to admit. And I'm [05:29] actually comfortable with the idea that [05:31] a lot of the people, maybe many more [05:32] people who are currently in our prisons, [05:35] um should be in mental hospitals, [05:37] perhaps. And this is not something that [05:40] is popular among society because, look, [05:42] I get it. There are three dead kids, it [05:44] makes people see red, and they want [05:46] vengeance, or they want justice. But I [05:48] guess that when it comes down to it, I [05:50] just see justice as something that you [05:52] never really get anyway. Um I think the [05:55] justice that the only justice that can [05:56] be really dispensed is God's. And so [05:58] we're left this with this question then [06:00] of of this woman who I believe that most [06:04] of the evidence is on the side of of the [06:06] of the the idea that she was actually a [06:08] very good woman who did for a period of [06:10] time go crazy. Do I know that she was [06:13] hearing voices per se? I don't know. [06:15] That really could have been something [06:16] that they threw in there to try to make [06:19] to try to make the reality of her [06:20] illness seem more tangible to people. [06:23] But I just have not seen anyone present [06:25] a motive for what she did outside of [06:27] mental illness. She even you know, and [06:29] and I think that's why Patrick Clancy [06:32] and his mother-in-law and the people who [06:34] know this couple actually say forgive [06:36] her, she's a good woman, let this go. [06:38] And so if they don't have an issue with [06:40] it, I'm not really sure who this justice [06:42] is going to be for. If you believe in [06:44] heaven and that these kids went there [06:46] now. And I don't I do not know I know [06:49] that there was that one freaky case that [06:50] happened recently of the mom who [06:52] supposedly was inspired by Clancy to [06:54] kill her kids, but I don't see this as [06:55] being like a great deterrent that [06:57] because of this um you know, [07:00] that we're going to see all of these [07:01] women now on a rampage killing their [07:03] children. I just don't see that. Andrea [07:05] Yates, you know, I mentioned I'm here in [07:06] Texas. Andrea Yates did eventually [07:09] through court proceedings, she did [07:11] >> did she do? And I apologize. I don't [07:13] >> She killed Well, she killed her It was [07:14] very similar. She she she was having a [07:16] kind of a religious mania psychosis and [07:18] she killed her kids. I think she drowned [07:20] them. And in fact, it was very tragic. [07:21] At one point she testified or it was [07:23] testified to that one of the kids [07:25] came out of it, woke up and said, [07:27] "Mommy, why are you doing this? Stop. I [07:29] I'm sorry, right?" Very tragic and [07:31] horrible. But she did end up being sent [07:34] to a hospital. She did get off [07:36] not acquittal for reason of insanity. [07:39] And then actually, not too far from me, [07:42] my mom actually personally knew of this [07:43] case. In the early 2000s, there was a [07:46] woman named Deanna Laney. She was a very [07:49] devout religious woman, [07:51] great family, everyone who knew her [07:53] thought she was wonderful, but she [07:54] slipped into a kind of postpartum [07:57] psychosis. [07:58] And she thought God wanted her to kill [08:00] her kids, and so she bludgeoned two of [08:01] them to death, and then the other is [08:03] still alive, but is permanently brain [08:05] damaged. And she did I I will concede [08:08] she did only spend 8 years in the mental [08:10] hospital. Actually, her her acquittal [08:13] was not was uncontested by the [08:14] prosecution because all of their experts [08:17] also agreed that it was a clear case of [08:19] psychosis, and so she spent 8 years in [08:21] an institution, and now she's out, and [08:23] there are all kinds of requirements [08:25] stipulations for her. She has to stay [08:27] away from children, she has she can be [08:29] visited anytime by a social worker, she [08:31] has to give a regular piss test to show [08:33] that she's taking [08:35] her medication. Interestingly, in her [08:36] case, within weeks of being medicated, [08:39] she suddenly she she eventually saw [08:42] what she had done and deeply regretted [08:43] it. It was very sad. She got on the [08:44] medication, and then it it seemed to [08:46] have cleared her up. But I I guess so I [08:48] guess I I understand where you're coming [08:50] from, and I can't argue that perspective [08:53] because I see it as a valid one. I I [08:56] come from a different perspective, but I [08:57] think hopefully what we could agree on [09:00] is that this should not this case has [09:02] nothing to do with how women should be [09:04] judged, and I think that we can I I will [09:06] not allow the manosphere or Matt Walsh [09:09] to put me in a box where I either have [09:11] to concede that this was not postpartum [09:13] psychosis, or I have to concede that we [09:16] women are all a bunch of crazy harpies. [09:18] And I'll say one more thing, that clip [09:19] that you just played of those women on [09:22] the jury, I had not seen that before, [09:24] but I have been seeing on Twitter for [09:26] hours now Matt Walsh and other men [09:29] talking about how crazy these women in [09:32] these interviews come across. These [09:34] women come across very reasonable to me. [09:36] I was expecting to see screaming. I was [09:38] expecting to see some signs of like [09:40] personality disordered women. They [09:42] actually seem to be very thoughtful. I [09:44] don't know guys, what is it that you [09:45] don't like? That they're middle-aged? [09:47] That they've got long hair? That they're [09:49] not conventionally attractive? That [09:51] they're speaking with a slightly raised [09:53] voice? That they're making some good [09:54] points about a what seems to be a very [09:57] real deficit on the part of this male [09:59] juror to follow the instructions he was [10:01] given? What part of this [10:03] is crazy? I don't get it. [10:06] >> I think um and I hear everything that [10:09] you're saying. And I do think people [10:10] jumping to like women should have the [10:12] 19th Amendment, which is obviously the [10:13] right to vote, taken away from us is [10:15] just absurd. I mean, it's just like [10:17] absolutely ridiculous. I agree with you. [10:19] I I think I have been um alarmed and [10:22] confused. And I know that like there are [10:25] people who wanted to like Jeffrey Dahmer [10:28] after he was like in jail. Like I get [10:30] that there's like a certain segment of [10:32] the population, men and women, who like [10:34] are attracted to criminals and [10:36] murderers. And again, like you want to [10:38] talk about Freud, like I'm not a [10:40] psychologist, but like feel free to go [10:41] with that. I think the thing that's been [10:42] confusing for me is I'm on TikTok. [10:45] There's a lot of women who are like [10:46] these youngish moms who are like I [10:49] understand Lindsay Clancy and people [10:52] wearing pink outside her trial and [10:54] people like supporting her. Like [10:56] Whatever, again, if she is convicted of [10:59] being temporary insane, which I know, [11:01] even going back to Roman days, that's [11:02] something people like, you know, [11:03] considered as something that can happen [11:05] to human beings. So, I'm not saying [11:06] different. But I think what's confusing [11:08] for me is this social media trend of [11:11] supporting her. Like I just don't [11:13] understand. That I don't get. And to me, [11:17] a lot of this is this is um [11:19] uh this is a little crass, but there was [11:21] a comedian uh who tweeted uh this is OJ [11:24] for white women. And honestly, when I [11:26] saw those jurors, I thought of that [11:28] juror in the OJ case that was like, [11:30] yeah, she didn't interview like way past [11:33] the point and I think it's on the HBO [11:34] documentary where she was like, he [11:35] obviously did it, but this was about [11:37] more than him. This was about like the [11:38] way black men are treated in America. [11:40] And there's something about this that [11:41] it's like [11:42] I don't know. I I I feel like everyone's [11:45] not being intellectually honest. She has [11:47] pled guilty. The like like I don't What [11:50] are you not And then there's all these [11:52] people who are like, you know, the [11:53] husband did it, blah blah blah, which is [11:55] obviously nonsense. Um I don't know. I [11:57] That's my my alarm about it, but I do [12:00] think there are bad actors taking those [12:01] facts and running with it in the worst [12:03] possible way. [12:04] >> Well, you bring up several things there. [12:06] First of all, funny you should mention [12:08] OJ because I was too was outraged at the [12:11] time over this verdict. And I'm not [12:13] going to say that there were not stupid [12:14] jurors on that that jury who [12:17] who engaged in ridiculous reasoning. But [12:20] you know, I went back and I looked at [12:22] the OJ case again when the Ryan years [12:24] ago when the Ryan Murphy show came out [12:27] just out of interest. And one of the [12:29] things that I really had to come to [12:30] terms with was how badly [12:34] LAPD [12:36] bungled the crime scene on that and how [12:38] many really serious mistakes they [12:40] actually did make. And and really they [12:44] deserved to have the DNA discounted. I I [12:47] And that's why Michael Tracy, for [12:48] example, who is one I think a really [12:51] astute person online when it comes to [12:53] these cases, that's why Yeah, that's why [12:55] he said also that he thought that the OJ [12:57] verdict was a fair one even though he [13:00] thought OJ was totally guilty. And so I [13:02] only bring that up because in these [13:05] cases it's very easy in sort of the [13:08] initial run of things to see things a [13:10] certain way. And I'm not saying again [13:11] you're wrong to to say that there's some [13:13] ridiculousness online. Uh but I also [13:16] think that the reality for a jury that [13:18] sat there for for many days and poured [13:21] over the evidence, you know, for [13:22] example, you showed a clip there of a [13:24] doctor who who saying, well, when we [13:25] examined her she was she didn't show [13:27] this or she was fine. I've known [13:29] mentally deeply mentally ill people over [13:32] the years and they fluctuate greatly. [13:34] Sometimes they won't be in the mood to [13:35] be honest with a a doctor or sometimes [13:37] they just might not be exhibiting those [13:39] symptoms at that moment. And I've also [13:41] known a lot of people in the medical and [13:43] and psychiatric fields and they're not [13:44] always the best at their jobs and at [13:47] picking up things that they should or [13:48] understanding the crazy ways that these [13:50] powerful psychiatric drugs can interact. [13:52] Um that having been said, also about the [13:56] Patrick Clancy uh the people who think [13:57] that he did it. I I will say this, I [13:59] don't think that Patrick Clancy did it [14:02] and I think and I and I think there are [14:05] legitimate reasons to put that theory [14:07] away, but I'll also say this, I had a [14:09] lot of disdain for these women initially [14:11] and then a friend of mine who does [14:14] believe that he did it. She started [14:16] going through all of the prosecution's [14:19] case and with things that actually don't [14:22] seem to really make sense about the case [14:24] and about things that and you know, the [14:26] the the husband and father is usually [14:28] the one that they look to first in these [14:30] kinds of family annihilations. Now, I [14:32] understand Lindsay Clancy, they said, [14:34] well, she admits to it. [14:35] But but I think that there are people [14:37] who believe that Lindsay Clancy might [14:39] not have been in a condition with [14:40] everything that happened to know exactly [14:43] what was going on. People can be talked [14:45] into things, especially you know, you [14:47] wake up and you're told, oh, you did [14:48] this. [14:49] Again, I think it's BS theory, too, but [14:52] I think that also there are a lot of [14:53] people who are getting painted with a [14:56] brush a sort of an an idiot brushes [14:59] being idiots when in fact, we're just [15:01] seeing little unflattering snippets of [15:03] their opinions and sort of this case [15:05] being created that like, oh, there are [15:07] all of these women who just they've been [15:08] watching too much you know, true crime [15:10] Tik Tok and their brains are fried and [15:12] oh my god and it to me it almost has the [15:14] makings of kind of a mass moral panic [15:16] over this. [15:18] Um [15:18] I don't know. Last thing I want to say [15:20] is I think that there are those of us [15:23] who look at cases like the Casey Anthony [15:25] case for example and we just see clear [15:27] differences between that is a woman who [15:29] I do think should be rotting forever and [15:32] we see clear differences between a case [15:33] like that where you had an obviously [15:35] >> She's out, right? [15:36] >> An obvious Yeah, oh yeah, but her her [15:37] attorney got her off. Um uh but an [15:39] obviously narcissistic woman who after [15:43] and who tried to hide the body of the [15:44] child and do it quietly so she could get [15:46] away with it. I mean Lindsay Clancy, she [15:48] killed her kids in the open. She wasn't [15:50] hoping to be free of motherhood, to have [15:52] that off her back. She had to have known [15:55] that she was setting herself up for a [15:57] life in prison or many years in a mental [15:59] institution. That's not freedom. So I I [16:01] still just don't see the motive. I think [16:03] basically where you and I would differ [16:04] Megan is we probably could agree that [16:06] there was some strong mental illness [16:09] here, but that I think the difference is [16:11] that you would say that people are still [16:13] ultimately culpable for these kinds of [16:14] horrific acts in a stronger way than I [16:17] would than I would concede. [16:19] >> Yeah, I do think that's where we break [16:20] away and that's where a lot of women [16:22] break away and that's totally fine. [16:24] >> It is. [16:24] >> Um you know, I for one, I would love to [16:27] watch a deep dive on your channel and [16:29] [laughter] and your attorney. If you do [16:31] any Lindsay Clancy content, I would love [16:33] to watch it. Um I mean, if you're [16:36] interested, you have a very, you know, [16:37] interesting perspective. [16:38] >> I just want to say too like I told [16:40] somebody that I was coming on your show [16:42] and they had seen they'd seen some of [16:44] your coverage of the Clancy of the [16:46] Clancy case and they said, "Oh my god, [16:48] are y'all going to tear each other up?" [16:49] And I said, "Actually, what people don't [16:51] know about you Megan [16:53] is that you you are one of the few [16:55] people that I know who who really can [16:57] handle having very different strong [17:00] opinions from other people and still [17:02] maintain a respect for them and I have I [17:05] have had lots of fallings out with [17:06] people over my last 5 years here on [17:09] YouTube and on social media. Pe- people [17:12] that loved me until I took a strong [17:13] position against them or against [17:15] something that they cared about and then [17:17] as you know, things kind of get weird [17:18] and things fall apart and yeah and I you [17:21] were one of the few people that really [17:23] has the strength the strength of [17:24] character to disagree with people and [17:27] still maybe it's your upbringing. Maybe [17:28] your dad taught you something about [17:29] politics. I don't know. [17:31] >> [laughter] [17:31] >> Well, also it is I personally hate [17:34] content where people just sit around [17:35] agreeing with each other. I think it's [17:36] so boring. So if you want to disagree [17:39] about anything anytime, I'm more than [17:41] happy to have conversations.
