Transcript [00:00] It's a change we all have to make [00:02] because if we don't make Israel won't [00:04] survive. Netanyahu's [00:06] authority, Netao's responsibility for [00:09] the 7th of October today where we stand [00:13] brings us to a very moral decision. He [00:17] shouldn't be there. As for the liquid, I [00:19] think liquid is a legitimate party. [00:21] Israel can't be a heighty country when [00:23] 28% of its students today 35 in a few [00:27] years don't learn English. There's no [00:30] contradiction between learning [00:31] mathematics or English than learning the [00:33] Torah. Like I pray three times a day [00:36] they pray three times a day. These 2026 [00:40] elections [music] are about the Zionist [00:42] story. If you're part of it, I think you [00:44] are you can be a part of the next [00:47] coalition. If you didn't run to defend [00:51] the borders on the 7th of October, I [00:54] think you're not part of a Zionist [00:56] story. [00:57] >> The Nata movie, the plan for Gaza, [01:00] re-engineering karate education, and a [01:02] new constitutional vision for Israel. [01:04] What does former [music] Prime Minister [01:06] Napali Bennett's party bey [01:20] >> Thank you for having me. [01:22] >> A pleasure and a pleasure to reconnect, [01:24] too. So, uh, let's just open for a [01:27] moment with the Nata movie. you uh put [01:31] up your own post and I think people [01:32] deserve to hear what you have to say [01:34] about it. [01:35] >> Yeah. So I served as a lieutenant [01:37] colonel in the Gaza division for the [01:40] first three months of this war and 10 [01:43] years before that as a reserves officer [01:46] and I was there in the wombs that we [01:48] made the decisions when to shoot, when [01:50] not to shoot, how to defend our [01:52] soldiers, how to fight the terrorists [01:54] and when to not not to press a button. [01:57] And I can tell from firsthand, and [01:59] that's what I said, that the decisions [02:02] of the IDF are all moral based. The [02:06] Hamas [02:07] committee is saying that there were [02:09] 71,000 [02:11] people killed in the Gaza Strip. I don't [02:14] know if we can believe them or not, but [02:16] let's say the numbers are are straight. [02:19] And then they say that over a third of [02:21] them, over 27,000 are kamas fighters, [02:25] terrorists. And if that's so so on every [02:28] one terrorist killed, there were two [02:31] citizens killed. That's these are again [02:33] kamas numbers. Those numbers are [02:34] fantastic. When you look at armies [02:37] around the world fighting in, you know, [02:40] built areas, they they themselves I mean [02:43] the Americans say they killed one [02:46] terrorist on every 13 citizens. The the [02:50] British generals were talking about one [02:52] to 20. So even if we take the one-sided [02:57] kamas numbers, we have done I think a [03:00] very good job in trying to prevent [03:03] killing citizens and therefore I don't [03:06] believe what we've heard about said in [03:08] the movie the Naza movie and I can tell [03:11] you from firsthand I saw something [03:13] totally different. [03:14] >> Well, yours is an important voice and [03:16] I'm glad that you are coming out on the [03:17] record. I want to get in. We've we've [03:20] been doing a series of interviews with [03:23] candidates uh representing different [03:25] parties. Um you're the first one I think [03:28] coming from the well or maybe the second [03:29] one coming from what might be called the [03:31] change block uh which is sort of the [03:36] the block not likely to sit with uh [03:39] being a meano that's identified more [03:41] with like the center kind of the center [03:44] left also hoping to get some of the [03:46] center right if I read you correctly um [03:49] and I want to get into into your ideas [03:51] about this I do want to ask just on this [03:53] NATO question because [03:56] the reactions coming from some of your [03:58] likely coalition partners have been [04:00] different, right? So, uh for instance, [04:04] the Democrat team, the Democrat party is [04:06] headed by Egolan. Yolan recently um had [04:10] to somewhat modify remarks that he had [04:12] made about Israel killing Palestinian [04:15] children as a hobby. And of course, [04:18] potentially the party also sits with [04:20] Ram. So how how does a party positioning [04:24] itself as Zionist on such a critical [04:27] issue that's affecting Israel that's [04:30] affecting Jews worldwide. How do you [04:31] think about [04:33] the those those partnerships? [04:36] >> So I tell you first of all I come from a [04:38] very right-wing environment. I I live in [04:40] Farition the first settlement in Judan [04:42] Samaria. I voted until I was 40 years [04:46] old. This was 14 years ago. Then some [04:49] people start learning Kabala in the 40. [04:51] I turned you could I won't say sides but [04:55] I moved I shifted from to yes and today [04:59] and I'll tell you this I see one exam [05:04] one way to look at people and it's less [05:07] about what they say and it's more about [05:09] what they do and on the 7th of October [05:14] when I was I called myself I took myself [05:16] to duty and on the morning of the 8th I [05:19] reached the Gaza division I looked [05:22] around me. There were 200 men and women [05:26] in the headquarters of the Gaza Division [05:29] leading their operations to retake the [05:32] area and then to attack the Gaza Strip. [05:36] In those 200 people, they were religious [05:38] and non-religious. There won't weren't [05:40] any Khedi. There weren't any Arabs, but [05:43] they were religious, non-religious, [05:45] right-wing, left-wing voters of Smootri, [05:48] and voters of Y Gulan. They were all [05:51] there. And that's my main exam exam. And [05:55] that's how I treat people. I must say [05:58] talks words can kill. I mean when Amika [06:02] minister said it's not, you know, absurd [06:05] to think about an atom bomb thrown on [06:08] Gaza and I went to Washington to try to [06:12] debate our cases to congressmen from [06:14] both Republican and Democrats. There [06:16] wasn't one who didn't quote that stupid [06:19] quote. So again, words can't kill. I [06:24] think the Democrats, they're leftwing, [06:26] but they are Zionist party and they they [06:29] are part of the Israeli Zionist game. I [06:32] see I like them in many areas [06:35] economically and security and you know [06:38] others and yet they are part and I think [06:42] that's the main thing that's the main [06:43] business about these these elections. [06:46] These 2026 elections are about the [06:48] Zionist story. If you're part of it, I [06:51] think you are you you can be a part of [06:54] the next coalition. I I take some more, [06:57] some less, some I dislike even, but [07:00] you're part of the story. If you didn't [07:03] run to defend the borders on the 7th of [07:06] October, I think you're not part of a [07:09] sto story. [07:10] >> Former Prime Minister Bennett saying [07:11] that he would not support a rotation [07:14] with Netanyahu. Yes, [07:15] >> it does sort of suggest that the likely [07:18] alliance is more with this toward the [07:22] left, right? [07:23] >> I don't think so. No, my problem I'll [07:26] speak for myself, but I think I also [07:28] spoke for I speak for Ben Laid. My I [07:30] have a big problem with Netanyahu. Now, [07:32] it started before 7th of October. [07:34] >> Mhm. [07:35] >> It's it's part of the shift I made from [07:37] Li to Yeshid. Why is that? Because in [07:39] 2012 I was looking at the liquid which I [07:42] voted since I was a youngster and I [07:45] didn't recognize it and the leader of [07:47] the party who was then prime minister [07:49] and is yet today prime minister said few [07:52] years before that a prime minister [07:54] should had have two terms and if he [07:58] didn't do what he needs on those two [08:00] terms he shouldn't continue because he [08:02] won't do it anymore. This was 14 years [08:04] ago. It's the same Netanyahu dealing [08:07] with Kamas. I think he really didn't do [08:09] anything to defend Israel. He was trying [08:12] to quieten Hamas and not to deal with [08:14] it. And same goes for many of our [08:16] security challenges. I think Netanyahu [08:19] is in a big question mark about his [08:22] connections to Qatar and other [08:24] countries. And I think he was the number [08:26] one leader on 7th of October 23. And [08:31] therefore, to my opinion, [08:34] >> the head of the Gaza division went home. [08:37] The head of the south division went [08:40] home. The chief of the IDF went home. [08:43] Head of the Shabbach went home. They're [08:45] all home. Even the minister of security, [08:49] one person is still there. And therefore [08:51] I think Netanyahu's authority, Netao's [08:54] responsibility for the summit of October [08:57] today where we stand [09:00] brings us to a very moral decision. He [09:04] shouldn't be there. As for the Li could [09:06] I think liquid is a legitimate party. [09:08] But as a leader, I think NATO isn't the [09:10] right leader for Israel. And therefore, [09:12] I think I agree with Bell. [09:13] >> And I have one more question. Okay. And [09:16] I have to be very careful to say that [09:17] this is me talking and that my [09:18] organization talking. My organization [09:19] does not deal with politics, but I will [09:22] try to not abuse the privilege of this [09:25] show and and yet still ask this [09:26] question. Obviously, the prime minister [09:28] is responsible for many things. I apply [09:32] that, however, to all recent prime [09:34] ministers [09:36] uh and Natali Bennett is is one of them [09:39] who for instance doubled work permits [09:41] from Gaza. Laid, former prime minister [09:45] Laid uh [09:48] gave up on uh maritime territory, you [09:51] know, to tobala. [09:53] And I'm not sure that there was some [09:55] kind of different security approach [09:57] applied in those years. And so if I'm if [09:59] I'm trying to allocate blame on the [10:01] basis of that kind of seniority and [10:03] responsibility, which I I very [10:05] personally I do, but I I kind of do it [10:08] evenly. [10:08] >> No problem. But let's take the [10:10] percentage. Mhm. [10:11] >> Netanyahu was from 2009 to 2023. 13 out [10:16] of 14 years prime minister Benid [10:19] together less than a year and a half. So [10:21] it's 1910. Let's take their dollars to [10:25] kamas. This was a an idea a sense set by [10:30] Netanyahu and Smootic. And Laid and [10:33] Bennett didn't stop it. So you have the [10:36] the person that brings the idea and I [10:39] must say they did try to change it by [10:41] giving coupons instead of dollars. So [10:44] the citizens will receive it and not [10:46] kamas. Let's go on. Laid didn't pass [10:50] anything tobala. He didn't negotiate [10:52] withaha. He negotiated with the Lebanese [10:56] government which was influenced bybala [10:59] but wasn't led byah. He gave nothing and [11:03] he got got the percentage of part of the [11:06] of the gas in the in the sea that could [11:10] potentially give us more gas. Meaning it [11:12] was a good deal at the time at 2022. [11:16] Would I do it today 2026? Actually, I [11:18] think Netanyah would take it into hands [11:20] today in 2026 because we are again [11:23] negotiating with Lebanon. So if I take [11:26] any and and again I'm really look I was [11:29] part of the committee of security and [11:32] foreign affairs on uh 7th of October [11:35] meaning I also have a part I'm willing [11:38] this is why we want it to be [11:40] investigated. We all have some kind of [11:43] authority and responsibility on what [11:46] happened. But when you look at the [11:47] number one, when you look at at the [11:49] prime minister of 13 out of 14 years [11:51] before the massacre, he's the main [11:54] person in charge. He built the ideas. He [11:58] built the the the sense of security. He [12:01] said to us, I mean, two weeks before the [12:04] massacre, appealed as the head of [12:05] opposition, takes the television and [12:08] says, I'm I'm warning the people of [12:11] Israel. We may be heading an a [12:13] catastrophe. I heard him saying, and I I [12:16] texted him, this was Arab Kipur three [12:18] years ago. I texted him. Why did he do [12:20] that personally? And I said, look, what [12:23] I see on in what I heard from Netanyahu [12:25] is very disturbing. I have to tell the [12:28] people of Israel to be aware. Two weeks [12:31] later, 7th of October, if Nata wasn't so [12:34] arrogant, so sure of himself, so I think [12:38] not aware, if he was more awake and more [12:42] on God, we may have prevented it. So [12:44] yes, that's how I see responsibility. [12:46] I'm not taking anything off my shoulders [12:48] or my colleagues. [12:49] >> I'm sure the viewers will decide for [12:51] themselves uh how to approach this [12:54] particular question. Okay. So, [12:58] uh let's jump to what your forte is. [13:01] >> Yes. [13:02] >> Which is education. Uh and you if you [13:06] could actually talk a little bit about [13:07] your own background and the level of [13:08] seniority you have, which is really [13:10] vast. You're also an award-winning [13:12] educator and former principal and you've [13:13] managed this at the municipal level for [13:15] Jerusalem. [13:16] >> Yes. So, I came to politics from [13:17] education. Yeah. [13:18] >> That was my main business. I I served in [13:20] the reserves. That was my side business [13:22] and then my main business was education. [13:24] I was a teacher for nine years, a [13:26] principal for six years, head of [13:28] education here in Jerusalem for another [13:30] five years and then I led two uh [13:33] networks of school and then I came into [13:36] the Knesset and I I sat six years now on [13:39] the committee of education too. So [13:42] that's my you could say the main thing [13:43] I've been focusing since I was a young [13:46] person. [13:47] >> And what is in your view the big issue [13:50] that needs to be solved and how would [13:52] you solve it? Wow. It's a big question [13:56] problem. No, no, it's okay. Look, it's a [13:59] big problem. Over the years, we have [14:00] less and less excellence and it's gone [14:03] lower and lower. Now, there are many [14:05] reasons, but the number one reason is [14:07] the number one challenge of education [14:09] and that is bringing an adult, a mature [14:13] adult, an an excellent adult to meet the [14:17] young person and he's he's the mentor. [14:21] It's education is more about mentoring [14:23] than about teaching and that's what a [14:25] teacher should be a mentor for the young [14:27] person helping to grow up and I think we [14:30] have failed as a country bringing the [14:33] right people to work as teachers [14:36] >> okay [14:37] >> keeping them in job because a lot of [14:39] them are leaving about half of them [14:41] leave over the first five years they've [14:43] been teaching and then giving them the [14:46] environment it's very tough being a [14:48] teacher in Israel today the classes are [14:50] huge [14:51] the the the the principles and and the [14:54] you know senior people from from the [14:57] ministry of education are all the time [14:59] asking for you know grades and things [15:01] and they don't let the educators work. [15:04] So that's the main problem you have to [15:06] work on many sides of it. So today I'm [15:09] actually working on building the [15:11] programs for the next government of how [15:13] to change our education. And I can't say [15:15] there's one thing that if we change it, [15:17] education will be great. But I can't [15:19] tell you that this is the end game. The [15:22] end game is bringing the right person to [15:25] the class to work with the students and [15:27] to give him the the all whatever he [15:30] needs to succeed. So, I'm going to give [15:33] like a little more body to what you were [15:35] saying about the the decline because I [15:37] don't think that it's necessarily [15:39] evident when you look at Israel from [15:40] abroad and you see all of this [15:42] technological achievement and military [15:43] achievement. Uh it's a very high [15:46] performing, outstandingly performing [15:47] society by and large. But when you look [15:51] at the numbers, I think the last numbers [15:54] on Israel's global rankings were that we [15:56] were 43rd. [15:57] >> Yes. and 33rd among the developed world [16:00] in terms of our educational systems. [16:03] Only 3% of the nth graders meet the [16:06] national science curriculum standards [16:07] and 20% in Arabic language schools meet [16:10] baseline Hebrew requirements and so on [16:12] and so forth. [16:13] >> So I mean you specifically you you've [16:18] developed an expertise in education and [16:20] just if you could explain your agenda. [16:23] >> Okay. um does you know [16:25] >> so I I'll I'll let's turn it into three [16:28] answers. First and foremost, [16:31] we do have um I think a very not good [16:35] enough system of education schools but [16:38] we have the best college in the world [16:40] which is the IDF. So we have we meet our [16:44] youngsters at the age of 23 22 3 4 after [16:48] they finish maybe a prayer army year and [16:51] then three years in army sometimes four [16:53] five y [16:54] >> then they take another year in the east [16:56] and then you know going around and then [16:58] at the age of 24 25 they go into into [17:00] college into the into the university and [17:03] suddenly they're amazing. So that's one [17:06] of the reasons you see on some areas [17:09] Israel is amazing. Our universities are [17:11] good and our IDF brings you much more [17:14] mature and much stronger than you were [17:16] when you came in. I mean I would prefer [17:19] maybe pray that we wouldn't need to [17:21] serve so much in the army. But the army [17:22] does do a lot of good things. Then I I [17:25] look at our system and it it's also [17:27] tended to three parts. Our Jewish [17:30] Zionist system is not bad. Some of it is [17:34] good. Some is not bad. Our Arabic system [17:37] is all the time improving in some [17:39] numbers actually now published the Arab [17:42] students have reached the curriculum and [17:44] the grades of the Jewish Zionist [17:47] students. So we're not good enough there [17:50] but we're making a lot of progress. The [17:52] pre the place that we're far behind is [17:55] the ultraorththodox thei students and [17:57] they're now 22% [18:00] of all our students 28% of our first [18:04] graders. So this is a huge percentage [18:07] and the numbers are going up and the [18:09] percentage is going up all the time. Now [18:11] why are we so behind with the ultra [18:13] ducks? For first I'll just say we [18:15] haven't uh checked them. They don't go [18:18] into the international exams and not [18:20] into the internal exams most of them. So [18:23] we don't even know what the numbers are [18:24] and that's a big problem. This is [18:26] something set by miniming actually in [18:28] 1982. He's to blame. I think was an [18:31] amazing leader. [18:32] >> And you still voted L could [18:33] >> and I voted and I I even I he came to my [18:38] uncle was his advisor. So I I know him a [18:40] bit personally. I met him a few times [18:42] when I was six years old. I sat that he [18:45] was attending. Yeah. where where we had [18:47] a family business with be and yet at [18:51] 1982 for political reasons he set up the [18:55] idea that the khedi students can get [18:58] 100% of the budget but not teach 100% of [19:03] the curriculum [19:04] >> the core [19:05] >> they started 44 years ago and over the [19:08] years much worse as the wor years years [19:11] came by [19:13] more and more boys mainly boys the girls [19:16] have their problems but it's mainly boys [19:19] we're left behind and it's now two [19:21] generations of boys that haven't learned [19:25] mathematics know no English and don't [19:28] know any basic criteria that they can [19:32] work with and they they're not taught on [19:34] this Zionist idea of Israel and then [19:37] when I I I don't know if you know I was [19:40] the founder of two of the platoon in the [19:43] army one in Givati Tom and one in the [19:46] paratrooper was now when I started to [19:49] deal with karedi boys coming into the [19:50] army this was 11 and 13 years years ago [19:54] they they said amazing things to me they [19:56] said look you can teach us to shoot you [20:00] can teach us to run we can do that at [20:03] the age of 18 or 19 or 20 you can't [20:05] teach us English because if you haven't [20:08] learned English as a youngster most 80 [20:11] to 90% won't won't succeed fulfilling [20:14] that when they're adults So they said, [20:16] "What can I do without English?" And I [20:19] said, "Wow, they're right. I mean, they [20:22] can I I can teach them about Herzel, but [20:24] they never be able to say a full [20:27] sentence in English." Now, our English [20:29] also in all our system isn't good [20:31] enough. But as you know, but and yet [20:35] when we do with our with our young [20:38] children and they don't get even the [20:40] basic ABC, [20:42] you can't feel that at the age of 20. [20:44] And then I understood we have to start [20:47] the all the changes dealing with the [20:49] ultraorthodox students much younger at [20:52] the age of three when they get into the [20:54] kindergarten and there I was founder [20:56] also of the first [20:59] the school of that learn a full [21:02] curriculum and yet stay fully and I'll [21:06] tell you actually even today although [21:08] I'm from [21:10] I'm the number one MK that ultra [21:13] Orthodox students, parents reach out to [21:16] to help them with their system, with [21:19] their service and whenever they want [21:21] something that is out of the the you [21:25] know system that is out and there are [21:26] lot they're out there the tens of [21:28] thousands hundreds of thousands that are [21:30] asking for something else. So they want [21:32] to vote for me but I think they look at [21:35] me as their representative in closets. [21:39] That's [21:41] I suppose we'll find out. [laughter] So [21:44] what are you actually suggesting to do [21:46] at the age of three? Because it sounds [21:47] on the one hand like you have [21:49] substantial experience in building [21:51] projects that allow for perhaps a kind [21:53] of healthy integration. Yes. [21:55] >> That also respects their way of life. [21:57] >> Yes. Erh, but it also sounds like if [22:00] you're going to go in at the age of [22:01] three and start rewriting their [22:04] curricula and requiring core studies [22:06] that open them up to uh basically any [22:09] part of the world that they they might [22:11] choose to pursue uh that their [22:14] communities might see that as an attack. [22:16] >> So that depends. I think the main change [22:18] today again end of 2026 is a movement [22:22] from a project to a system. And I'll [22:25] give you a good example. My family 100 [22:27] years ago comes for the karen kasidut. [22:30] So few years ago I was reached out by [22:32] the admir of ken and I said I'd like to [22:34] meet you. I came into kesset on the [22:38] behalf of yes the doesn't sound very [22:40] ultra orthodox and yet the the [22:42] connection maintained and I've been [22:45] visiting the theore once or twice a [22:47] year. a few years ago he told me I'm [22:50] moving all my students all the to the [22:55] and he started bringing his to serve in [22:59] the army over hundred of them have [23:01] already served as we speak so there are [23:04] changes happening in the communities not [23:06] in all of it and not enough of it and I [23:08] must say this current government hasn't [23:10] done enough hasn't done at all the [23:12] what's needed to lead the changes so the [23:15] the changes are led all by opposition [23:17] members like myself or from leaders [23:20] coming from you know the the the [23:22] grassroots of the ultraorththodox [23:24] community the admore is something very [23:26] the ador cavalinis and I think there are [23:28] few of them but they're the minority [23:31] now we have to change the system system [23:35] look the cost is tremendous the fact [23:38] that the kedi people are not integrated [23:41] in the Israeli system of work costs us [23:44] every year the lowest number I've heard [23:46] and I'm I've been digging the numbers is [23:49] 40 billion shekels a year because women [23:54] are underqualified. So they get half the [23:57] salary uh uh Jewish Zionist women gets [24:01] and the men half of them are working and [24:04] the half that are working are also [24:06] getting half the the salary. So that the [24:08] quarter we're losing billions and if we [24:12] change that we change Israel. It will be [24:15] an amazing growth. Now the way is as [24:18] actually you said I'm not changing the [24:20] way of life. I'm not changing the style [24:23] of life that more of Ken and that more [24:25] of bears and other leaders have shown us [24:28] that there's no contradiction between [24:30] learning mathematics or English than [24:32] learning the Torah. Like I pray three [24:34] times a day. They pray three times a [24:37] day. Their curriculum today was based [24:41] only on Torah. They brought in learning [24:45] of English and mathematics and science. [24:48] But they didn't change the way of life. [24:50] Now it's happening as we speak. Today [24:52] it's 7% 7% of the Kedi um schools. 7% [24:59] learn a whole curriculum. 10 years ago [25:01] it was zero. So our aim is 10 years [25:05] ahead 70%. I think we can do that. Now I [25:09] was I'm I'm dealing with this for many [25:12] years. [25:12] >> But how how do you incentivize that to [25:14] happen? [25:15] >> It's it's money. It's all about money. [25:16] What's happened on the system begging [25:18] built on 82 you get the same money and [25:21] you don't have to teach any curriculum. [25:23] So that has to change. What's a way to [25:25] change it? I actually went to bagats [25:28] three times this year. [25:29] >> The Supreme Court. Yeah. the Supreme [25:31] Court um challenging the minister of [25:33] education and saying you have Kishan [25:36] before that beat when he was minister on [25:39] the behalf of Shas they're not doing the [25:41] job because the rules of Israel are [25:43] saying you have to teach a curriculum to [25:44] get money and they're not enforcing the [25:48] rules. So I said all we have to do is [25:51] say if you don't teach curriculum you [25:53] don't get the money. Now it's a slight [25:55] change in the law Saturn 82. It's a big [25:59] change for Khedi children. The issue is [26:03] it's a change we all have to make [26:05] because if we don't make [26:06] >> Israel won't survive. I mean the numbers [26:08] you quoted before about where our system [26:11] stands, you know, the high-tech country [26:14] etc. Israel can't be a high-tech country [26:16] when 28% of its students today 35 in a [26:21] few years don't learn English. You can't [26:24] be in high if you don't know English. if [26:26] you don't learn bas basic mathematics [26:28] from when you're young. So these are [26:31] changes that this government and and [26:33] former governments have failed to change [26:36] and to make and we'll have to do it now [26:40] otherwise it's it's too late. [26:42] >> So I I have two questions about this and [26:43] then we're going to have to move to the [26:45] kind of constitutional vision that the [26:47] party's promoting. Um, and obviously [26:49] there's there are many other issues that [26:51] the party deals with and the you know [26:52] they have a website where they lay out a [26:54] lot of their a lot of their plans and so [26:56] I don't mean to give short shrift to [26:58] anything when anybody comes on my show [26:59] and I appreciate it. Um the two [27:02] questions that arise based on what [27:04] you're saying are you've mentioned that [27:06] there's been improvement in the Arab [27:07] sector but a lot of the problems that [27:09] you're describing are absolutely similar [27:12] in the Arab sector whether it's the [27:15] question of you know a lower rate of [27:17] employment whether it's a question of a [27:19] knowledge of English whether it's a [27:20] question of a knowledge of Hebrew [27:22] whether it's a question of uh you know [27:24] exposure to the Zionist idea right where [27:28] does that figure into what we're talking [27:30] about when we talk about everybody [27:31] needing to draft for instance. [27:33] >> Yes, [27:33] >> this is one good word you'll hear from [27:35] ono for me 2015 I'm in head of [27:40] educational system in Jerusalem and [27:42] theno passes the big plan of 15 billion [27:47] she checkers going to the Arab system. [27:49] >> Yeah. [27:49] >> Now he didn't did do it because he [27:52] thought he'll get the voice votes. He [27:54] didn't do it for the nice eyes or [27:56] whatever. He did it for one reason. He [27:58] knew as prime minister already then for [28:00] many years that the Arabs are left [28:02] behind behind and then 2021 [28:06] there was another [28:08] 15 or something billion shekels program [28:11] and that was to close the gap. Now as a [28:14] politician you don't only look at the [28:16] numbers you look at the vectors the [28:18] vectors of the work with the Arab [28:20] community are much better than where we [28:23] stand with ultraorththodox. There's one [28:25] big challenge. There are ongoing efforts [28:27] right now to dradicalize Arab education [28:29] in you know [28:31] >> and and yet look I I started started yes [28:35] the idea of Israeli program in [28:39] it came from here it was between my two [28:41] ears [28:42] >> eastern part of Jerusalem [28:43] >> eastern part of 120,000 students 5% of [28:47] Israeli students who are eastern [28:49] Jerusalem Arabs the 99% of them when I [28:54] started were learning Palestinian [28:56] curriculum. Only two schools had an [28:59] option for Israeli curriculum. I started [29:02] the shift. [29:03] >> Then I bought in 2016 a governmentaled [29:06] decision of Tali Bennett was minister of [29:08] education then and then today we stand [29:11] with 35 almost 40% of Arab students in [29:15] eastern Jerusalem learning our [29:17] curriculum and it's one way it's a [29:19] one-way ticket today. who whichever new [29:22] school starts only Israeli curriculum [29:26] every teacher now learning curriculum [29:29] only can learn Israeli curriculum so [29:31] eastern Jerusalem is changing as as we [29:34] speak and I I'm saying again look we [29:36] have 2.1 Israeli Arabs [29:40] >> living between us and a lot of my [29:42] colleagues and friends coming from the [29:43] right wing won't really deal what are we [29:46] going to do with him and I say there's [29:47] only one option we can bring them [29:51] demand from them. I don't want them to [29:53] serve in the army. That's the truth. [29:54] There are 1500 Muslims serving today in [29:57] the army. If we would let them there [29:59] would be more. I don't think we want [30:01] more. We want it to be the IDF is we [30:05] don't I think having Arabs in it is a [30:07] challenge in 1% 2% it's okay. I'd prefer [30:10] them to do a two-year term of what [30:12] national service and I think that should [30:15] be commentary for for all for all people [30:18] in Israel. the second question and then [30:20] we will move to loft. I think that's [30:22] extremely important. I know we're short [30:23] on time at this point. [30:25] >> Um [30:26] so because you kind of gave it a heads [30:30] up that we should talk to some degree [30:32] about karate education. I went and I was [30:34] researching some of your hearings and [30:37] one popped up that seemed to me to be [30:40] kind of [30:42] say a contradiction a bit of a red flag. [30:44] I don't you you'll tell me. Okay. And it [30:46] was about it was in 2023. It was a [30:48] hearing relating to the prevention of [30:50] harm to LGBT youth, which I think we can [30:52] all get behind. Um but when I dug more [30:58] into the kind of educa the guidelines [31:00] issued by the ministry of education to [31:03] schools about how to deal with such [31:05] youth uh guidelines based on a document [31:08] initially produced by the Ministry of [31:10] Justice and the Ministry of Welfare that [31:13] were then brought into the Ministry of [31:15] Education under Naftali Bennett and [31:17] eventually years later under I believe [31:20] it was Shasha Beton uh in her tenure [31:23] released. Um, so this is a document that [31:26] basically uh tries to sensitize school [31:30] staff to how to deal with the [31:31] complexities of of this issue. Okay. [31:34] There are uh numerous parts of this [31:37] document where the educational [31:39] professional is being told that uh if [31:43] anything if they're going to tell the [31:44] parents it's with the child's consent [31:47] that there are violations of privacy law [31:50] if the parents are brought in without [31:51] the child's consent. [31:53] Okay. And it's basically this reiterated [31:55] message for the school to take like [31:57] ownership of the child in this issue [32:00] where uh certainly with relating to [32:02] trans youth you have you know massive [32:05] suicide rates. Yes. [32:07] >> And all sorts of horrible horrible uh uh [32:10] side effects and complexities too. And [32:12] you talked about wanting it in the [32:14] religious schools. You wanted those [32:16] guidelines implemented in religious [32:17] schools. [32:18] >> Yes. [32:18] >> Okay. [32:19] >> Yes. I'm not Karedi. Never in a million [32:22] years would I want my child to be in a [32:24] school implementing such guidelines and [32:26] cutting out the family. [32:27] >> Yes. So I'll tell you [32:30] 10 years ago. [32:31] >> Yep. [32:32] >> Um almost this it will be now 10 years [32:37] a colleague in the army was murdered on [32:42] the pride event in Jerusalem. [32:45] >> That was also in the hearing. I know. [32:46] Sorry. And that's Shira Bankanki. Her [32:49] father Ribbanki and I served as [32:51] lieutenants in the paratroopers. [32:54] A year after that [32:56] h we came together a few officers, [32:59] paratrooper reserve officers and we we [33:02] decided to march with him with the [33:04] rebanki on the same march his daughter [33:06] was killed the year before by an [33:08] ultraorthodox murder murderer. [33:11] And there something happened. I met a [33:15] few of my ex- studentents coming from [33:18] religious schools, many of them still [33:21] religious [33:22] and they said, "Wow, they see our [33:25] principal or our teacher standing here [33:28] with us. That means a lot to us." And [33:32] since there I've made an effort to come [33:34] to the Jerusalem parade, which is [33:36] different from the Tel Aviv parade or [33:37] from other parades, and stand with the [33:41] community that is still [33:43] um attacked because of its way of life. [33:47] Now as a religious person I believe we [33:52] have to deal with issues as LGDQ [33:57] >> can [33:58] >> um in all terms and we have to do it in [34:01] our educational systems too. Now there's [34:04] a way to deal with it in a religious [34:06] school. There's a way to deal with it in [34:08] an ultraorththodox school. There's a way [34:10] to deal with it in a democratic school. [34:13] But there's no way you can't deal with [34:15] it at all. I've been debating this with [34:18] some of my friends, colleagues, it's [34:20] even friends, [34:22] ultraorththodox community leaders and [34:25] saying, "Look, we're getting there in [34:27] our way, on our path, in our system, in [34:31] our language. We will bring a story from [34:33] the Gara talking about two women and [34:36] then that's a way to deal with it." Let [34:39] but we understand today some of the most [34:42] important NOS's today in the [34:45] ultraorththodox community are dealing [34:47] with sexual harassment which was 10 [34:49] years ago not heard of [34:51] >> today it's everywhere so I'm telling you [34:53] slowly but surely even the most closed [34:56] communities understand the need to deal [34:59] with this as leaders and as a public [35:02] leader I see it also part of my place [35:05] that was what why I was saying three [35:07] years ago go. I stand behind those words [35:10] and I'm telling you even more. I'm [35:11] working on it with [35:14] leaders and again in a very different [35:16] manner than we're even we're speaking as [35:19] we speak now today. But yes, every [35:21] community has to deal with the different [35:24] people inside it. And if you close your [35:26] eyes, you're just neglecting and not [35:28] doing your job. That's how I see it. I [35:31] think it's more a question of whether [35:33] you decide that this is an issue that [35:36] homes can't deal with appropriately and [35:38] where they shouldn't be fully informed [35:42] and brought in to manage their own [35:44] children. [35:44] >> And again, I'll say I think religious [35:47] schools, ultraorththodox schools, all [35:49] schools, [35:50] >> yes, [35:50] >> have to deal with the challenges of [35:53] changes the students are going with and [35:56] the growth and the different paths [35:58] they're taking. Each one is in its own [36:00] cultural way and again as an education [36:03] as an education as a person that [36:05] promotes education for all people I [36:08] stand behind that. [36:10] >> Do you stand behind the guidance not to [36:13] necessarily inform parents? [36:15] >> It's more complex than that. I I I was [36:18] talking about a specific area in which I [36:21] dealt with as an educator [36:23] >> when we ourself the the team of the [36:26] school weren't sure where a child stands [36:31] and we were not sure they should we [36:33] should be the ones reaching out to the [36:34] parent and what I was saying then and I [36:36] again studies this we have to give the [36:38] student the privilege of talking with [36:41] his parents and not do the job for him [36:43] that's was a context of what I was [36:45] saying then that was a dilemma I stood [36:47] with as an educator and you look maybe [36:50] this is the reason we need more [36:52] educators in Knesset because only when [36:54] you you've dealt with it yourself then [36:58] you can bring it you know to decision [37:00] making in the Knesset as we are now [37:02] speaking [37:02] >> I'm going to be sending you this cheffy [37:04] document [37:06] >> so that we can continue this discussion [37:07] >> okay [37:08] >> okay [37:10] there's a lot more in your platform [37:11] [laughter] [37:12] okay you want to legislate the [37:13] declaration of independence as sort of a [37:15] preamble to a second piece of [37:17] legislation called the basic law [37:18] legislation and effectively to create if [37:21] I understood correctly what Israelis are [37:23] calling the [37:25] >> yes [37:25] >> the thin constitution [37:26] >> yes [37:27] >> uh now the premise behind the thin [37:29] constitution is that um 80% of the [37:31] public can agree on kind of 80% of the [37:33] rules of play in government [37:35] >> yes [37:36] >> okay I think that the the it's not so [37:38] much a kush or an innovation but I'm not [37:40] sure what it means to legislate the [37:42] declaration of independence especially [37:44] because it itself is not a [37:46] constitutional document. [37:48] >> Yes. [37:48] >> Um nor do I understand what separation [37:51] of powers is envisioned. And that's [37:54] especially the case because I think most [37:57] of the people if not all of the people [37:59] in your party were extremely opposed to [38:02] judicial reform to the point where you [38:03] know they were mobilizing Kaplan. [38:05] >> So I I'll tell you this and I think we [38:07] can summarize it in a few sentences. For [38:09] first I deeply believe our judicial [38:13] system needs a chain. I'll say this not [38:16] only on my own behalf but also on behalf [38:18] of Y laid. I think most of our MKs agree [38:22] with that. My main debate with Simarot [38:25] and with other leaders of the judicial [38:28] uh reform was on the way and maybe on [38:31] some parts of it but not about the idea [38:34] the theme [38:36] and I I was protesting myself mainly in [38:39] Jerusalem saying that it's not the way [38:41] to deal with it. And I'll tell you how I [38:43] want to deal with it. I would like to [38:45] see the next government hopefully [38:47] founded by Nfari Bennett what you call [38:50] the the change group [38:54] that's the way we call it. Yes. [38:56] >> Yeah. [38:58] >> Making decisions leading Israel and yet [39:01] all the time reaching out and checking [39:04] the checks and balances of the system [39:07] but not on behalf of one side. So when [39:10] I'm talking about the Supreme Supreme [39:11] Court, I think yes, we can rewrite and [39:14] maybe think together how we can do this [39:17] better. I I hear the voices. As I told [39:20] you, I live on the right-wing part of [39:22] Israel with many of my friends and [39:24] colleagues oppose some of the decisions [39:26] made by the by Bagots and the fact it [39:29] took such such a big part. Now, I say on [39:32] my behalf, it's because government [39:33] become became a crime government and [39:36] then you have only the Supreme Court [39:38] stopping it. But it's a debate. I'm not [39:40] saying it's I'm right and you're wrong. [39:43] I'm saying that and this is the the main [39:46] phrase when you change the rules of the [39:49] game. You do it together. You can't play [39:53] basketball and you say now we're not we [39:56] only have one basket on one side. That's [39:59] a change of the games. That's a change [40:01] of the theme. I'm willing to decide [40:02] together who the judges will be. Let's [40:05] say that's some [40:06] >> meaning politicians should decide with [40:07] the [40:08] >> No, I mean I don't think we should ch I [40:09] don't think it should be a political [40:11] issue like done in in in the states. I [40:13] don't think it's a good system. I think [40:14] our system is better actually. But I'm [40:16] willing to to check myself. I'm willing [40:19] to rethink the group of those nine [40:21] people who decide maybe give instead of [40:24] two people from the um um that are [40:27] lawyers maybe from other places. We can [40:29] open everything. But that's a that's a [40:32] bigger thing of a coalition of 61 or 64 [40:35] in case and I'll say that even if I'll [40:37] be the part on the part of majority. So [40:40] when I we say what you said, we're [40:43] talking let's decide what we agree on. [40:46] >> Let's a big majority of let's vote for [40:50] it. Let's decide that those are the [40:51] rules of the democratic game today and [40:54] we're not going to change it on everyday [40:55] basis because it fits ourselves now as [40:58] we see things. [41:00] >> I think that that's a major issue that [41:01] people agree on is that the basic laws [41:02] are are not being taken seriously enough [41:05] by any any branch. [41:07] >> Yes. But [41:08] >> and as for just for for um [41:12] >> that declaration, I think it should be [41:16] given a special platform, maybe a [41:19] special law saying this is a guideline [41:22] for Jewish democracy. I don't think we [41:25] could, you know, start reaching out at [41:27] each word and saying, "Ah, it says like [41:29] that in Israel, meaning it's only God [41:33] and not I don't know what." Okay. But it [41:35] does say we should give it a special um [41:38] maybe [clears throat] a special law [41:40] because it's such a it's not a [41:42] constitution but it is in some way the [41:45] guidelines of how our ancestors looked [41:48] at the Israeli democracy Jewish country. [41:51] >> Why legislate? Right? So this is this is [41:53] one of the things I was a bit confused [41:56] about. Obviously, if the Knesset takes [41:58] action to legislate something, that's a [42:00] very major step. And I I don't have a I [42:02] don't have a serious view on this [42:04] anyway. I'm just trying to understand [42:05] it. [42:06] >> It already exists as a declaratory [42:08] statement. It's a declaratory statement [42:10] with a lot of sort of vague and even [42:12] contradictory terminology. It's a [42:13] declaratory statement that does not once [42:16] mention the word democracy, okay? But [42:18] talks about things like, you know, the [42:20] values of the UN charter informing the [42:22] spirit of Israel. And I think it's also [42:25] what is it? Freedom, justice, and peace [42:27] as envisioned by the prophets of Israel. [42:30] It I'm not sure it gives us much [42:33] clarity. And [42:33] >> I think it gives us some kind of [42:36] inspiration. And it's good that we'll be [42:38] talking more about it. That's the first [42:40] and one way is legislation. And yet it [42:43] won't solve our problems. It won't, you [42:45] know, it won't deal with the main [42:47] challenges of checks and balances or how [42:50] we choose our our um our um judges. But [42:55] I don't I do think it's part of the [42:59] meaning we will say look this is the [43:01] first declaration made by the first [43:04] ancestors only 80 less than 80 years [43:07] ago. [43:07] >> Yeah. [43:08] >> And this is the you know the vector that [43:10] the country was founded that and let's [43:13] look at it. Let's give it a main look at [43:15] it as maybe a a kind of inspiration as I [43:18] say and then let's work about the laws [43:21] we agree on. That's how I see the coming [43:24] term of democracy led by the group of [43:27] change but I think being more and more [43:30] talked about a with a big majority of [43:33] Israeli MKs hopefully. [43:35] >> So I know that they're about to pull [43:37] pull my plug but I do I just I want to [43:39] focus on this one more time because I [43:40] think that my central [43:44] Maybe concern question about this would [43:47] be if you're legislating something which [43:49] was not meant to be a constitutional [43:50] document which Bengory himself said was [43:52] not a constitutional document. [43:54] >> Yes. [43:54] >> Which the court for many years refused [43:56] to relate to as a constitutional [43:57] document although today some justices do [44:00] retroactively. [44:03] >> Okay. And it has all this big [44:04] terminology and we've yet to deal with [44:07] let's say the question of judicial [44:09] review. It seems to me to just open up [44:11] to to basically [44:14] uh validate any any judicial decision of [44:17] any kind in any direction with reference [44:20] to very very vague terminology. [44:22] Um [44:23] >> I I think there's a fair chance we'll [44:26] have a big majority of Knesset. [44:28] >> Yeah. [44:28] >> Who say okay I agree on this because it [44:31] can be taken to each term. Let's agree [44:33] at least this is our [44:35] >> what do you think basically your main [44:37] things that you would want to agree to [44:38] and then unfortunately we're gonna have [44:41] to [44:41] >> I think we we will have to take both be [44:44] more specific about what laws can the [44:47] Supreme Court erase set up [44:50] >> judicial review stays but it has to be [44:52] limited in certain ways. [44:53] >> So it's stays is not a good way because [44:55] as it was it was more um it was a [44:59] disaster. [45:00] >> Okay. We have to rewrite the changes in [45:04] our laws in our system not in the manner [45:07] that was done on the 4th of January 23 [45:11] not on the the vector and not on the way [45:13] and yet yes we can talk about the main [45:18] yes to to take to to divide it into two [45:22] places we were thinking about it [45:23] ourselves let's do it in a wider manner [45:26] and I think again it was tried for a [45:30] short While in the house of the [45:32] president of Israel, I think we can get [45:34] to agreement on a few of those areas are [45:37] saying when do we erase laws? How do we [45:39] choose our uh judges? When do we yet say [45:44] that Supreme Court can erase laws and [45:48] how all that can be spoken about and I [45:51] think be decided up. [45:52] >> Thank you so much for being here. [45:54] >> Thank you for having me.
