Transcript [00:00] the absolute hitch slap of the century [00:03] against this Islamist on CNN. Take a [00:06] look. [00:07] >> Now, I know as well as you do that you [00:09] have not done that in order to avoid [00:12] sparing the hurt feelings of my u fellow [00:14] guest. You've done it because you're [00:17] afraid of retaliation and of [00:18] intimidation. Now, I I'd like to ask him [00:20] and anyone else who agrees with him is [00:22] watching, is that the relationship they [00:23] want to have with the free press? [00:25] Because if we have to use the stupid [00:27] word offensive, those of us who believe [00:29] in the Enlightenment and the [00:30] Constitution and the First Amendment are [00:32] very much offended by this mad babyish [00:35] conduct. But we don't go out and kidnap [00:37] the nearest Muslim we can find and take [00:39] him hostage till someone apologizes. We [00:41] don't we don't violate diplomatic [00:43] immunity. We don't we don't which is one [00:45] of the most precious things in the [00:46] international community. Much more [00:48] precious than the right of Muslims not [00:50] to have their feelings hurt. The whole [00:51] thing is a scandal and we're all running [00:53] scared from Okay, let's let Akmed Akmed, [00:56] jump in here. I know you want to [00:57] respond. [00:58] >> Yeah, absolutely. This is not about uh [00:59] hurt feelings. It's about strategic [01:01] discourse. Uh the people that we see on [01:03] TV are the Well, hold on, Christopher. [01:05] The people that we see on TV are less [01:06] than 1% of the Muslim masses. The the [01:09] the grain of the discussion here is the [01:11] vast majority of Muslim moderates that [01:13] are offended from their role in a post [01:16] 911 and in a in a conflict oriented [01:19] situation which which is at the apex of [01:21] counterterrorism at the apex of an [01:23] engagement of a discussion of hearts and [01:25] minds. Of course, freedom of expression [01:27] stands and no one is asking the Danish [01:28] government to stifle expression. But [01:31] freedom of expression, hold on [01:33] Christopher, freedom of expression and [01:35] the responsibilities of discussion, the [01:37] responsibilities of those with power and [01:39] privilege to ensure that there is comedy [01:41] between different groups, a a belated [01:44] response by the government and then a [01:46] continuing of republishing and [01:48] reprinting uh these cartoons. We have [01:50] freedom of expression here in the United [01:52] States, but the president and the major [01:54] media have chosen not to engage. The [01:55] Pope believes in freedom of expression, [01:57] but he has condemned these cartoons. [02:00] strategic. [02:01] >> Christopher, I want to let Christopher [02:02] in here. Christopher, I want to hear [02:03] >> what is this babble? The State [02:05] Department has said that it apologizes [02:08] and thinks these things are offensive [02:09] and it's um uh done so without, as far [02:12] as I know, any permission from the [02:13] American people to say that that we uh [02:16] take that view. I'm glad to hear you say [02:18] it's only 1% of the Muslim world that [02:20] takes this opinion. In that case, why [02:21] are we treating the leaders of these [02:23] lynch mobs and bullying gangs as if they [02:25] were representative of your religion? [02:27] >> That's a very good question. Why is it [02:28] that we can't get condemnation so easily [02:31] or at all when for example Shia mosques [02:33] and funeral processions in Iraq are [02:35] blown up by Muslim fascist Christopher [02:39] Akmed unus the vast majority of Muslims [02:41] condemn attacks on Shia communities [02:43] condemn attacks on Christian communities [02:44] in one name condemn the Council on [02:47] American Islamic Relations sent a [02:49] delegation to Iraq to to try to release [02:52] Jill Carol we have done the same with [02:53] Margaret Hassan we engaged continuously [02:57] we were we against Wait a minute. Wait a [02:58] minute. I want to jump in here for both [03:02] Islamic groups in America. I got to jump [03:04] in here because there the point is made [03:06] here and this comes up over and over [03:08] again that when we talk about the the [03:10] most radical of Muslims, they're the [03:12] ones who get the attention. The whole of [03:14] the faith gets painted with this brush. [03:16] By the kinds of pictures we're showing [03:18] today of burning buildings, as awful as [03:20] it is, is there a fair point being made [03:22] here that this this clearly is not [03:24] representative? [03:25] >> Absolutely. And if we look if we [03:27] >> Christopher please [03:28] >> um well that's for Muslims to decide if [03:30] they want to condemn this they can but [03:32] actually a lot of Muslim governments [03:34] have instead and authorities have [03:36] instead joined the condemnation of the [03:38] cartoons and urged the Danish government [03:39] to bring pressure on uh the free press [03:41] in Denmark. Absolutely outrageous. [03:44] >> They are opportunists state actors and [03:45] non-state actors that are taking this [03:47] opportunity to pursue their ends is a [03:50] different discussion. What we are [03:51] discussing now is why would we offend [03:54] the very identity of 1.2 billion people [03:57] who are needed for us to end this era [04:02] question [04:04] published all the time in in certain [04:07] Muslim press and Arab press. Let's talk [04:09] about the the anti-Semitic cartoons that [04:11] are there all the time and you don't see [04:12] this kind of reaction from Jews who may [04:15] be deeply deeply offended. [04:17] >> You're right. We are all offended, not [04:18] just Jews. We are all offended when [04:19] there are anti-semitic cartoons and [04:21] these dictatorships that use the other [04:24] to galvanize the bases within their [04:26] countries to support them in their [04:28] efforts um are acting contradictory to [04:31] the interests of Muslims. We condemn [04:33] that type of anti-semitic behavior. We [04:35] condemn it when it's against any other [04:36] community be it by Muslim or the [04:38] question. That wasn't the question. This [04:40] is the same Europe being asked. This is [04:43] the same Europe that had a genocide [04:45] against Muslims. the largest genocide [04:47] since the Holocaust. We have got to be [04:50] strategic. We have got to ensure that we [04:52] are not negligently bolstering the [04:54] haters that are finding excuses for [04:58] just a plotted plant here. I don't He [05:00] wasn't asked that question. He was asked [05:02] why when uh Jewish people or Christians [05:05] or the largest in my opinion the most [05:07] important group in the world, those of [05:09] us who don't believe in religion and [05:11] claim the rights of the enlightenment [05:12] when we're offended. You were asked, [05:14] "Why don't we take the occasion to go [05:17] and set fire to embassies of democratic [05:20] countries or kidnap civilians?" That's [05:22] what you're being asked. And you're [05:23] still claiming You're still claiming [05:25] Muslims have a special right to be [05:27] offended. And that is very offensive [05:29] indeed. [05:30] >> Absolutely not. I am claiming that [05:31] Muslims have dare you bring up an equal [05:34] right to to find human dignity in the [05:36] way that they are treated in society. [05:37] And Christopher, if you feel that there [05:40] is an attack against you, you have the [05:42] right to respond. That is the same [05:44] feeling that's saying the the the [05:46] Muslims are [05:47] >> without your permission with your [05:48] interruption. That's what I'm doing. [05:49] >> Okay. Okay, gentlemen. Time out here for [05:51] a second. Time out. Uh Christopher, I [05:53] want to go back to to the first point [05:54] you made and that is, you know, how [05:56] newspapers and news organizations make [05:58] their decisions about this. And you [05:59] mentioned, you know, CNN's decision to [06:01] pixelate these. You're right. I mean, [06:03] partly based on fear of reprisals [06:06] against our staff, but also partly based [06:07] on fear of offending. And I I want to [06:10] put it to you this way. I mean, do [06:12] non-Muslims have any obligation in your [06:14] view to be to to be respectful of this [06:19] aspect of the Muslim faith and to make [06:21] an extra effort not to offend. [06:23] >> Look, I'm not asking for the right to [06:24] slaughter a pig in a mosque or to or to [06:28] defecate on a Quran or anything of this [06:30] kind. I am saying though that religion [06:31] makes very large claims for itself. [06:33] Islam claims to that it is the total [06:35] solution to all human problems and the [06:37] Islam that the sooner that it's imposed [06:39] on everyone the better. Well, that's a [06:41] point of view, but it can't if it's [06:43] going to make such claims, it has to uh [06:45] drop the demand that it be immune from [06:47] criticism and especially from satire. To [06:49] many to many of us, the claims of the [06:51] prophet Muhammad or his claim to be a [06:53] prophet are absurd. Muhammad [06:55] >> and these that I of course we have the [06:57] right to do that just as we have the [06:58] right to represent unchased nuns and [07:02] child raping priests and other and the [07:04] other people who also claim a special [07:06] right because they claim that their own [07:08] bigotry is divine. Why is this why is it [07:11] so different for the Muslim faith? [07:12] >> This is a fabricated discussion. This [07:15] the issue here is not the freedom of the [07:17] west and the isolation of the Muslim [07:20] world. One of the primary goals of [07:21] Sharia as studied in classical discourse [07:24] is the protection of the products of the [07:25] mind and the protection of freedom of [07:27] speech. That's not what we are [07:29] addressing. We are not asking anyone to [07:31] follow Islamic law. No one in the world [07:33] is saying that there should be an [07:35] inhibition against this type of speech. [07:37] But what we're saying is those with the [07:39] ability to move discussions forward for [07:43] peace, forward for an ability to see [07:46] each other, they have a responsibility [07:48] to act. It is not Babel Babel. This is [07:51] not the first time. [07:52] >> These types of card these types of [07:55] >> religious leader of Islam called for the [07:57] murder in his own name for money of a [07:59] novelist living in England. [08:01] >> Who is this religious leader of Islam? [08:03] We are Muslims sir. We all represent [08:05] ourselves. Our tradition has the [08:09] consider did not consider you as equal. [08:10] Let's say [08:11] >> the tradition of the prophet is clear. [08:13] Comedy between all people. religious [08:15] freedom for all people, even those that [08:17] do not believe in God's we are the vice [08:20] chair that matter. [08:21] >> We have to leave it there, gentlemen. [08:23] >> They claim a special right and they [08:25] claim it by at gunpoint and by force [08:28] and that's the last word, gentlemen. [08:31] >> Christopher Hitchens in Ununice [08:33] offensive [08:34] >> both of you. It's been spirited. It's [08:36] been interesting [08:37] >> and it's going to continue. That that [08:39] much is to be sure. Thank you both [08:41] >> for being here. Once again, we didn't [08:44] listen to Christopher Hitchens, but he [08:46] was proven right. Islam and free speech [08:48] don't go together. We've seen that time [08:50] and time again. People go to Islamic [08:52] countries and actually go and talk about [08:55] the prophet Muhammad and they don't make [08:57] it out of those Islamic countries. They [08:59] even in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, even the [09:01] more modern ones, right? You know, you [09:04] have tourists go there, say one bad [09:07] thing about the prince or whatever the [09:08] [Â __Â ] and they don't come back, right? [09:11] they get killed. So, you should not go [09:15] to these countries. Number one. Number [09:17] two, we shouldn't make our own countries [09:19] beholden to those same laws. We [09:22] shouldn't be censored by this, you know, [09:24] quote unquote religion. We're not [09:26] Islamic. We're not Muslim. So, we [09:28] shouldn't be beholden to their laws. And [09:29] that's all I'll say about that. Thank [09:31] you for watching and I'll see you in the [09:32] next
