Transcript [00:00] Watch what happens when Piers Morgan [00:02] grills Norman Finkelstein on him [00:04] deumanizing Israelis. Take a look. [00:07] >> You've got a book out called Gaza's [00:08] Gravediggers and inquire into corruption [00:10] in high places. It it's basically tells [00:12] how inter international institutions [00:14] created after World War II failed the [00:16] Palestinians and how international [00:18] bodies and human rights organizations [00:19] have minimized or whitewashed Israel's [00:22] actions in Gaza. As you said, this may [00:24] well be changing in real time. Um, you [00:27] know, one of the criticisms that people [00:29] have uh about a lot of people on the the [00:32] pro-Israeli side is they tend to [00:34] categorize all Palestinians the same. [00:36] They kind of say they're all either [00:38] Hamas or Hamas sympathizers. And you [00:41] know, there's rightful blowback against [00:43] that. There is an argument, Norman, that [00:45] some of the things you say suggest you [00:47] feel that way in a collective way about [00:50] Israel. I want to play a clip from an [00:52] interview you did with Tucker Carlson [00:54] last week uh about this. [00:56] >> The Israeli army is representative of [01:00] the Israeli Jewish population with one [01:03] tiny exception representative of the [01:06] Israeli Jewish population. And so [01:10] they are a nation of child killers. I [01:15] mean, that's a that's a brutal thing to [01:17] say about an entire population of [01:19] millions of people. You know, it would [01:21] be like when Britain illegally, in my [01:23] view, invaded Iraq in 2003. I was [01:26] extremely critical of Tony Blair and the [01:28] government at the time. But the idea [01:30] that made all Britain's somehow [01:33] collectively a nation of child killers [01:36] because so many children were being [01:38] killed in Iraq, that would have I would [01:39] have found that a very offensive thing [01:41] to say and inaccurate. Why? Why? And you [01:43] repeated this quite a few times. Why do [01:45] you feel this? [01:46] >> Well, I feel it for the following [01:48] reasons. Number one, as I already told [01:51] you earlier, as I already said earlier, [01:53] all the polls showed that the Israelis [01:56] overwhelmingly [01:58] support what was going on in Gaza. [02:01] Israel is the highest per capita user of [02:04] the web in the world. Is it plausible? [02:07] Is it tenable? Is it believable that the [02:10] people don't know what's going on in [02:12] Gaza? They never saw Tik Tok. It never [02:15] passed their screen what was going on in [02:18] Gaza. Number two, Israel has a citizen [02:22] army. [02:23] In general, that's a good principle. It [02:26] means every citizen has to be has to be [02:29] willing to sacrifice his or her life in [02:32] order to preserve your country's [02:33] freedom. That's a correct principle. [02:36] On the other hand, if your army is [02:39] carrying out a genocide, that casts a [02:42] very dark light on your country because [02:45] that army is representative of your [02:47] country's population. [02:49] Number three, if you look at, for [02:52] example, the most recent UN report, you [02:55] know what its title is? Israel's [02:58] deliberate targeting of children in [03:00] Gaza. That's not a aberration. [03:05] The report is 120 pages single spaced [03:09] just repeated. [03:10] >> Yeah. But Norman, you would also know [03:11] that Netanyahu and his government have [03:14] repeatedly said, "We don't [03:16] deliberately." Now, putting aside the [03:18] argument about whether they do or not, I [03:20] suspect history will judge this and [03:22] we'll find out. [03:23] >> But they've repeatedly said, "We don't [03:26] deliberately target children. Hamas live [03:29] amongst, you know, the general [03:31] population deliberately. we target Hamas [03:34] and in the process of attacking [03:36] terrorists, innocent people, including [03:38] children have been killed. That is their [03:40] argument. If you're an average Israeli [03:42] >> and you're told that by your government [03:44] all the time, [03:46] >> you may well believe that that is the [03:47] strategy, right? I don't think that [03:49] makes you a part of a nation of child [03:52] killers. [03:52] >> Okay. Number one, [03:57] everybody who serves in Gaza, you think [04:00] they don't go back and tell their [04:01] families what's going on there? [04:03] >> Yeah, but we don't know what how they [04:05] explain what they're doing. They may [04:07] well say say exactly the same thing as [04:09] we are taking out the terrorists and in [04:11] the process a lot of other people are [04:12] getting killed, [04:13] >> right? But that's not what the [04:16] documentation shows. [04:18] >> No, but it may be what they're conveying [04:19] back to the people. My argument is [04:21] purely what what's the population of [04:23] Israel? Six, seven million. Right? The [04:25] idea there are a whole nation of child [04:27] killers. If I'm an Israeli hearing you [04:29] say that, I'm like, well, what's the [04:31] difference between you saying that about [04:32] us [04:33] >> and then you getting indignant about [04:35] people saying all Palestinians are [04:37] Hamas? [04:38] >> Okay. [04:40] >> You remember when Israel was uh uh [04:44] described as using starvation as a [04:48] method of war? remember that period [04:50] right [04:50] >> and that was not disputed [04:52] >> by any international agency any [04:54] humanitarian agency any UN uh body that [04:58] was a common place [05:00] >> even the foreign policy chief of the EU [05:03] Burrell he said yes Israel is using [05:05] starvation as a method of war [05:09] how do you think that's carried out [05:11] means you have to block all the food [05:12] from getting into Gaza means you have to [05:15] bomb the agricultural fields everybody [05:18] in Gaza [05:19] was a participant in that starvation. [05:22] Who was affected by the starvation? [05:25] 48% of the people in Gaza are children. [05:29] >> If you impose starvation, if you use [05:31] starvation as a weapon of war, aren't [05:33] you culpable for it? [05:35] >> But again, that's the government [05:36] decision. And yes, you could argue [05:38] right, the IDF are doing what their [05:40] government tells them to do. The British [05:42] army would do what their government. I [05:43] mean, I had a brother who fought in the [05:45] Iraq war. He did that because he was [05:47] told to by his government. [05:48] >> But Pierce, you must recognize [05:50] >> I just think demonizing a whole [05:51] population, Norman, if I'm honest. He [05:54] just I don't like it when people do that [05:56] with all Gins and say you're all Hamas. [05:59] >> And I don't like it when people do it [06:01] with all Israelis because I don't think [06:02] they I I've met a number of Israelis in [06:05] the last few years who vehemently [06:06] disagree with what their government is [06:09] doing in their name. So the idea they're [06:10] all child killers, [06:13] >> but [06:13] >> it's an unfair characterization, isn't [06:15] it? [06:15] >> Not really, because [06:17] >> even the ones who vehemently disagree [06:19] with their government. [06:19] >> But Pierce, Israel is among the most [06:22] pled places in the world, we know public [06:25] opinion on that. As I already said to [06:28] you, throughout the two and a half [06:29] years, no more than 5% of Israelis [06:32] thought that Israel was using too much [06:34] force in Gaza. I will say it is kind of [06:37] ironic that Piers has also dehumanized [06:39] Israelis, but you have to give credit [06:41] where credit is due. He's willing to [06:43] call out Norman for going too far here. [06:45] Uh, and I think that Piers himself needs [06:47] to uh look himself in the mirror and [06:50] understand that many of what he says [06:52] equates Israel with Hamas and therefore [06:55] equates Israel and Israeli soldiers with [06:59] terrorists and terrorism. So I think you [07:02] know this cuts both ways but definitely [07:04] Norman Finkelstein essentially looks at [07:06] Israeli soldiers as Nazis. That's what [07:09] he looks at them as despite the fact [07:11] that it is a civilian army which he [07:14] pointed out. Thank you for watching and [07:16] I'll see you in the next one.
