Transcript [00:00] Watch what happens when Piers Morgan and [00:02] Muhammad Hijab challenge Jonathan [00:04] Conoricus on Islam in the UK. Take a [00:08] look. [00:08] >> One thing that I think we should [00:10] acknowledge first, which a lot of [00:11] Europeans are sensitive about saying and [00:14] acknowledging, and that's the fact that [00:16] the immigrants come from failing or [00:19] failed states. if their form of [00:22] government, if their societies and [00:23] culture was compatible or equivalent or [00:27] as good as or as functioning as western [00:30] society, they would not be immigrating. [00:33] And I think that basic notion of [00:35] understanding why people migrate and why [00:39] out of their own valition they try to [00:41] get to the west because their systems [00:44] work and their law and order exists and [00:46] there there's welfare and many other [00:48] things and there there's tolerance. I [00:50] think should cause a lot of decision [00:52] makers to pause and assess well if [00:54] they're coming from there. What type of [00:56] failed mindset are they bringing with [00:59] them and what are they going to try to [01:01] do in our countries? I think that there [01:04] is a heavy heavy trouble and troublesome [01:07] ignorance in many of the higher layers [01:10] of society in the west in Europe in UK [01:13] in some parts of the US and many other [01:15] places where people are ignorant of the [01:18] basic tenets of Islam of Islamic [01:22] culture, religion, tradition, customs [01:25] and norms. They are ignorant about what [01:27] Sharia means. They are ignorant about [01:29] the obligation of jihad and they don't [01:32] understand what is happening to them and [01:35] they don't understand what is at risk. [01:38] The short-term problems are easily [01:41] identifiable. It's crime, its violence, [01:44] its overd dependence on welfare, its [01:47] welfare states. many examples of good [01:50] integration that gives us hope that with [01:54] good government policies people migrants [01:57] Muslims and non-Muslims can move out of [01:59] those circles and we have a lot of good [02:01] examples around the world of countries [02:03] to do that but we also have many bad [02:06] examples of countries that do not [02:09] understand the short-term problems and [02:11] they also invite invite the long-term [02:14] problem. Now, we're talking about a [02:17] threat that is a creeping, almost legal [02:22] and a gradual approach. This isn't jihad [02:25] by the sword like the things that we [02:28] face in the Middle East by the likes of [02:30] Hamas [02:31] andbala and some further away like ISIS. [02:36] That's clear. That's identifiable. [02:38] That's jihad by the source, but it is [02:40] very similar. and what the Muslim [02:43] Brotherhood and many other politically [02:46] organized Islamists [02:48] >> want to do. Yeah. I'll I'll I'll wrap [02:50] just very quickly. [02:51] >> I do need to let let a response come. [02:54] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure that there [02:55] will be one and I'll be listening. Um [02:57] what and what they are trying to do is [03:00] to take control over institutions, [03:03] take control over societies and then and [03:06] this is the kicker which many people are [03:08] ignorant of then to implement Sharia [03:11] [snorts] law which means to erase [03:14] western laws, norms and culture and [03:17] subjugate them to a medieval mindset [03:20] that is Islam. [03:21] >> You've made this claim and it's a [03:23] cause-based argument between the [03:24] religion itself and the practitioners. I [03:26] will leave it to you to explain to me [03:27] exactly what institutions have been [03:30] infiltrated, which by the way, the [03:32] definition of infiltration is to [03:34] covertly, okay, covertly influence a [03:37] group through secretive means. That's [03:39] the Cambridge definition of [03:40] infiltration. And you'll find, and we're [03:42] going to speak about this, that if you [03:44] think about the uh Israel lobby, which [03:46] we'll speak about after this, it fits [03:48] the definition, I think, much better. [03:50] But we can speak about that later. I [03:51] want to know exactly what Muslim [03:52] Brotherhoods you're talking about in [03:54] England. I want to know what [03:55] institutions you're talking about. I [03:56] want to know exactly what you mean by [03:58] this infiltration. And is this a [04:00] systemic effort by these people to try [04:03] and take over the country? And if so, [04:05] give me the exact data points that [04:07] you're referring to. Before I go to [04:09] Jonathan for that answer, just to [04:11] clarify for viewers, [04:14] what do you perceive, Muhammad, to be [04:16] the difference between Islam and [04:18] Islamism? Because people hear these [04:20] phrases, they hear these words. A lot of [04:23] people get confused. [04:25] >> What is the difference? [04:26] >> Well, the difference from a so from a [04:28] political science perspective, right, is [04:30] that Islamism is an attempt to [04:32] politicize Islam. That's usually the [04:34] definition that political scientists [04:36] use. However, I mean, the fact is this. [04:38] I mean, Islam has always been a [04:40] political system. So, we don't know [04:42] exactly where that starts and where that [04:43] ends because this construct Islamism, I [04:45] would say, is a social construct and [04:47] it's a euroentric view. We don't have [04:49] this distinction. We've never had it in [04:51] our texts. We've never had it in our uh [04:53] medieval manuals. So the fact is this is [04:56] a western construct in political science [04:58] that's used to try and distinguish [05:00] between Muslims who are attempting [05:02] political participation in some way [05:04] violent or nonviolent versus Muslims who [05:07] are not doing that. [05:09] >> Okay. Jonathan Kriers, your response to [05:11] to that and specific to what he said [05:14] about Brotherhood and the evidence of [05:16] infiltration in the UK. [05:19] Yeah, not only the UK. And it's I think [05:21] it's an interesting answer from someone [05:23] who clearly has um clerical and [05:27] religious knowledge. The Alazhar [05:31] University is one of the driving [05:34] forces of the Muslim Brotherhood and its [05:36] teaching. It's a known center for a very [05:40] extremist part of uh Islamic [05:44] interpretation. That's where many of the [05:46] world's terrorists and the scholars of [05:49] Al-Qaeda, [05:50] ISIS, Dish, Hamas, and many others were [05:54] given their [05:56] education, if you'd use that word. So, [05:58] I'm happy that you mentioned your [06:00] pedigree and you informed the people [06:03] that you're on the same boat as or in [06:05] the same boat, the same ideological boat [06:07] and and background as Kardawi and many [06:11] other extremists. that indeed what they [06:14] aspire to do by their sayings and by [06:18] their writings and by their actions is [06:21] world domination. It is the caliphate. [06:24] It is to take control over first lands [06:28] that Islam conquered violently in the [06:32] seventh and 8th century and since then [06:34] have been lost back to Europeans and [06:36] Jews and others, Christians and others [06:39] to first take back those lands and then [06:42] by force and by other means to take [06:45] control over other lands of Europe and [06:48] of the West. And it's very good that you [06:50] mentioned that this is where you come [06:51] from. And I strongly urge people, our [06:54] viewers, to take a deep dive into the [06:58] more stellar scholars of the Alazha [07:00] University in Egypt and to see what kind [07:03] of benign, benevolent, benevolent [07:06] thinking has come out of that [07:08] university. undoubtedly one of the mind [07:10] answering the question ask you about the [07:11] evidence now you spoke about the oldest [07:13] in the Muslim world and it really is [07:17] telling [07:17] >> what's the evidence on Muslim [07:18] infiltration Jonathan [07:19] >> yeah yeah no interrupted even though it [07:22] was tempting I didn't interrupt you even [07:24] when you falsely credited and and cited [07:27] me out of context which was [07:30] >> don't weasel out of it now Jonathan [07:32] don't weasel No listen don't don't [07:33] weasel out of it now it was very clear [07:35] what you said it was very clear what you [07:37] said it was very clear. No, we are [07:40] speaking now. We're speaking to each [07:41] other. It was very clear what you said [07:43] and people can go to that same YouTube [07:45] video and they can check it out. [07:47] >> You were encouraging and you were [07:49] incentivizing this American politician [07:51] to kill [07:52] >> civilians interrupting and we agreed [07:54] that we would [07:57] >> be a man. Be a man and speak the truth. [07:58] Don't be a weasel. [08:00] >> Don't be a coward. Don't be a coward. [08:02] Don't backtrack now. Why you [08:03] backtracking like a pussan? You're [08:05] interrupting. Are you backtracking like [08:06] a pussanimous? Why [08:08] >> you are interrupting and we agreed not [08:11] to interrupt? [08:12] >> Why are you there? Let Jonathan answer [08:13] the question. [08:13] >> Yeah. Go on. [08:14] >> Yeah. Well, I'll answer your questions, [08:16] Pierers. Not of [08:18] >> Sure. But I thought it was a relevant [08:19] question that when we talk about [08:21] infiltration [08:22] >> in the UK was totally do you have [08:25] evidence of that? [08:26] >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I'll I'll bring an an an [08:29] example from Sweden because I didn't [08:31] confine myself to uh the UK, but I could [08:35] probably dig up a few examples from [08:36] Sweden as from the UK. But for instance, [08:39] in in Sweden, the society that [08:42] represents Muslims in Sweden, which by [08:45] the way, probably similar to the [08:46] situation in the UK, is statef funded [08:49] and supported by Swedish taxpayers [08:52] money. When you do a close analysis or [08:55] just a basic analysis of what they hand [08:58] out and what they disseminate to Muslims [09:02] in Sweden, it is almost identical to the [09:05] teachings of the Muslim Brotherhood in [09:08] terms of the goal, the objective and the [09:11] means and how Muslims should operate in [09:14] Swedish society. And this has been [09:16] researched by a Egyptian Coptic Swedish [09:20] PhD doctor who I think also by the way [09:23] studied a bit at Elazal and he's now now [09:27] you're referencing now you're [09:28] referencing an academic from the [09:30] institution you were just touching are [09:31] you [09:32] >> again you're [laughter] interrupting [09:33] >> you are putting your tail your micro [09:36] tail between your knee between your legs [09:38] and you're scurrying and running away [09:40] running away like you did in the first [09:41] debate with Mario [09:43] let me put a different question to John [09:45] I'm going to respond to your [09:46] >> Yeah, you can. But also, Jonathan, the [09:48] question I would put to you is what [09:49] we're seeing, and I think you were at [09:51] one of these events. You're seeing the [09:53] pro-Israeli and what many perceive to be [09:55] an anti-Muslim lobby making allies in [09:59] the UK with people like Tommy Robinson [10:01] and what people think are his thuggish [10:03] group of supporters. I I think I'm right [10:06] in saying you were at one of his [10:08] rallies. So there there is a rising [10:10] concern conversely [10:13] about that going on in the UK as well. [10:16] You know you supporting people like [10:18] Tommy Robinson. Are you comfortable with [10:19] that? [10:21] >> Yeah, we you you tried that gotcha the [10:23] last time I was [10:24] >> It's not gotcha. I mean you were there. [10:25] I'm just asking you whether you're [10:26] comfortable supporting him. [10:28] >> Oh yeah. I'm, you know, as I said in in [10:30] studio when we spoke about it and you [10:32] had some other clown representing the [10:34] other side in studio alongside me uh who [10:37] is as laughable as Muhammad is now with, [10:40] you know, personal. [10:41] >> You weren't going to get personal, you [10:43] said at the start of this. [10:44] >> Yeah. Well, I'm responding in kind to [10:47] the level of conversation here. Um, I'll [10:50] say this. When I walked on the streets [10:52] of London in the United Kingdom [10:55] march, what I heard was a lot of [10:58] patriotic love for England and the UK. I [11:02] didn't hear a lot of hate speech. I [11:04] didn't hear people say bad things about [11:06] other people. Yes, you showed me a clip [11:08] of of some lady who said things about [11:12] Islam out of that house and we debated [11:15] it in studio. I don't think we have to [11:17] go over it again, but I'm happy to do [11:19] it. But I think the bottom line here is [11:21] and I think that what people around [11:23] Europe are saying pretty clearly whether [11:27] it's just two days ago or a day ago in [11:29] Germany or in continuous elections in [11:31] the in Scandinavia and in France in many [11:35] other places in East Europe a lot of [11:37] people are signaling their frustration [11:39] with this unchecked and reckless [11:42] immigration of people who are importing [11:45] a foreign mindset to Europe. And I think [11:48] a lot [11:48] >> but I would say to that okay but I would [11:50] say I would say to that same argument [11:51] okay I would say to that [11:53] >> why doesn't that apply to [11:54] >> well hang on let me make a point I think [11:56] there has been clearly a collective [11:58] failure right across the continent of [12:00] Europe in how migration immigration has [12:04] been managed and handled everyone would [12:06] have to accept that and I think the the [12:08] rise of a lot of right-wing populist [12:11] groups and leaders is a consequence of [12:14] that and it's it's a consequence because [12:16] it's inarguable You can't look at the [12:19] failure of border control across Europe [12:21] and not think it's been a failure. But [12:25] it's also [12:26] >> say that it's more than border control [12:27] peers. [12:27] >> Well, where my question is ideology [12:32] ideology. [12:33] >> But this comes to my point though, this [12:34] comes to my point which is that [12:37] >> I keep hearing from my friends in [12:38] America who have pumped this narrative [12:40] all the time that Britain is being [12:43] overrun by Muslims. They've taken [12:45] control. We're all living in terror of [12:48] the Muslim community. And I don't [12:50] recognize any of that. I live in London [12:52] for most of the year. Uh there are [12:55] millions of Muslims in our country and [12:59] most of them have assimilated extremely [13:01] well uh with communities and are not [13:04] violent jihadists. And I certainly don't [13:06] feel like my country's been overrun by [13:08] Muslims. So when you start talking about [13:11] the ideology, Jonathan, I say, well, [13:13] what you're saying is it is wrong to [13:16] allow so many Muslims to be in the UK, [13:20] for example. And to which I say, well, [13:22] where's the evidence that the Muslim [13:25] communities in the UK are causing any [13:28] more problems than any other [13:30] communities? I mean, do you have it? [13:31] >> I'm I'm I'm happy that you ask. Um, the [13:35] UK I think has the authorities in the UK [13:38] are doing pretty effective influence [13:41] operations on the British population and [13:44] significantly [13:46] denying people [13:48] statistics and data about the [13:50] nationality and background of offenders. [13:54] I think it's very telling when you look [13:55] at a rare country in Europe which is one [13:59] of the top countries in the world on [14:00] everything on quality of life and [14:03] tolerance and life expectancy and all of [14:05] the other metrics and that's Denmark. [14:08] Denmark is a country that actually [14:10] profiles crime criminals and their [14:13] ethnic and religious background and it [14:15] compiles very interesting data. Now [14:18] since societies we could say that there [14:21] are similarities between Lutheran or [14:23] Christian Denmark and the UK I'd say [14:26] that it's there is some level of of [14:28] information that we can deduce from the [14:31] statistics and I would urge viewers to [14:34] have a look at official Danish police [14:37] data about the identity and rel Jonathan [14:42] you are aware Jonathan I've said this [14:43] before on the show the vast majority of [14:46] crime crime [14:47] >> in the UK is committed by white [14:49] Christians. It's a population related [14:52] answer. [14:53] >> Not if you look at it percentage wise. [14:56] Can I jump? There are population now [14:58] Jonathan a couple of things. Money and [15:00] crimes are related somehow. When you [15:02] have less money, you commit more crimes. [15:04] When you have more money, when you're [15:05] poorer, you're you're you're more likely [15:06] to commit petty crime. That's it. It's [15:08] not to do with skin color. It's not to [15:10] do with your religion. It's not like [15:11] they're looking at the verses of the [15:12] Quran and saying, "Yes, now I'm going to [15:13] implement this on the people." There's [15:15] not even one example of that in the [15:17] grooming examples. No one says, "Yeah, [15:19] I'm going to intoxicate this woman over [15:20] here, which is haram religiously, not [15:23] allowed, prohibited, to give her [15:25] alcohol, which is prohibited Islam, and [15:27] groom her, give her drugs." No one says, [15:29] "Yeah, I'm doing this because Islam [15:30] tells me to do so." [15:31] >> Okay, let me get Jonathan's response to [15:33] that. Then I'm going to go to [15:34] proposition two. Jonathan, [15:35] >> you are trying to divert the core issue [15:38] at hand here, and that is the threat of [15:40] Western civilization. And what I think [15:43] people in the west should be cognizant [15:45] of is that this is the biggest threat [15:48] that that civilization is facing and no [15:51] fancy talk and smoke screens and mirrors [15:53] that you will provide many of them [15:55] factually wrong. By the way, if you look [15:57] at data in Denmark, if you look at data [16:00] in Denmark, Muslims, uh, Algerians, [16:03] Moroccans, Palestinians, Syrians, and [16:06] Afghanis are over represented by a [16:08] factor of 10 and 15 in violent crime, in [16:12] rape, in rape, and in in heavy assault, [16:16] in murder, and those those are fact [16:18] according to who? Give me the source. [16:20] >> I'll ask you to stop interrupting me. [16:22] >> No, give me the source. You've just made [16:23] a very very you've made a big claim. [16:26] Please stop interrupting me. You I [16:29] interrupt you and I want to focus on the [16:32] real issue here that is at hand. Now you [16:33] just want to [16:35] >> Okay, go ahead. [16:36] >> There are examples. There are examples [16:38] of countries around the world who [16:41] without saying so have a clear policy of [16:44] minimizing Muslim immigration into their [16:48] countries. whether it's Japan, South [16:50] Korea, Denmark, three countries in [16:53] Eastern Europe, Hungary, Czech Republic, [16:56] Poland, and other examples of countries [16:58] that silently because it's not [17:00] politically correct to say it and it [17:02] offends and it it kind of goes against [17:05] the grain of a lot of basic beliefs in [17:07] Western society. But what they're doing [17:09] is effectively one limiting the amount [17:12] of people from Muslim countries that are [17:15] eligible to come in and if they are [17:18] eligible to come in what they do and [17:20] this is very important because there is [17:22] hope that people can adopt. There is [17:24] hope that also Muslims who come with a [17:27] mindset that is basically medieval and [17:29] with intentions of taking over countries [17:32] and waging jihad jihad against the [17:36] non-believers. This is [17:38] Okay. Okay. Unfortunately, [17:40] >> all right. Listen, listen. I want I want [17:41] to move. [17:42] >> Great job by Jonathan in the handling of [17:45] this Islamist thug. I had the privilege [17:47] of meeting Jonathan actually uh in [17:49] Southampton and he is an incredible man. [17:52] Uh and Muhammad Hijab is a man who is an [17:56] avowed Islamist, somebody who has been [17:58] seen on the streets of the UK literally [18:01] threatening Jews and Christians uh [18:03] attacking dogs um and just, you know, [18:07] living out fully uh what the Quran calls [18:11] for, which is to strike at the [18:14] disbelievers. And I really don't know [18:15] why Piers Morgan welcomes him on as if [18:18] he's a normal member of polite society. [18:22] In my I think uh popular opinion, I [18:24] think uh Muhammad Job should not be [18:26] welcome on British TV uh nor any channel [18:31] that's worth its salt. Thank you for [18:33] watching and I'll see you in the next
