Transcript [00:00] When I was 17, there was a really big [00:02] incident in my life. A very close family [00:05] member almost died and all the adults [00:08] went to the hospital and I was home with [00:10] the kids. [00:12] And that was at the point where I was [00:15] like very scared that I didn't know how [00:16] to pray. But I was so scared that this [00:19] person was going [music] to die, god [00:20] forbid. And I put the kids to bed and I [00:24] literally stayed up the entire [music] [00:26] night until it was morning just saying [00:28] Shimra over and over again. And after [00:30] that I was like, "Wait, I really need [00:32] Hashem. [music] Like I couldn't have [00:33] gotten through this without him." And I [00:37] realized like, "Wow, something is really [00:40] missing from my life. This isn't [music] [00:41] a little thing that I'm missing. This is [00:42] something I need." [00:44] She grew up in a conserv. Judaism was [00:47] part of the picture. But over the years, [00:49] her family let it fade into the [00:51] background. And then something woke up [00:53] inside her. Shashana started coming [00:55] back. She learned, she grew, she became [00:57] basically from. And then she discovered [00:59] something that shook her to her core. [01:01] She wasn't actually Jewish. Imagine [01:03] giving your heart to Torah, to Hashem, [01:05] living the life and finding out that you [01:07] have to start over from the very [01:09] beginning. Shashana was faced with a [01:11] decision. Does she actually want to [01:13] become Jewish? In this episode, we [01:15] explore it all and her entire journey. [01:17] This episode is [01:19] Mosha and Shimyaku. This episode is [01:22] sponsored by our friends at Felheim, BF [01:24] Design, Woodsman College, Kabad, and [01:28] Wheels to Leis. Without further delay, [01:30] here we go. Shashana, thank you so much [01:32] for taking time to do this. First off, [01:34] let's start where you're from and what [01:36] your childhood was like. [01:37] >> So, I'm from central Jersey. I grew up [01:39] on a farm. Um, which is definitely not [01:42] typical for the firm world. [01:44] And I more recently as I've become [01:48] religious and everything I moved um to a [01:52] small community still central Jersey but [01:55] growing up I lived in an area where our [02:00] sh was called the farmer shaw which is [02:04] like not something that would exist now [02:07] but back in the day it was all the old [02:08] farmers and they have pictures on the [02:10] wall still of like these old orthodox [02:13] farmers s which is amazing. As time went [02:16] on, that shaw is now like more of a [02:17] reformed shaw. Um, but it was definitely [02:20] very cool to grow up with that history. [02:23] When I was younger, my family was much [02:25] more religious, kept a lot of things. I [02:28] didn't fully keep shabas or yontiff, but [02:31] I didn't really understand that until [02:32] more recently. Like, I grew up with the [02:34] idea that we were much more religious [02:35] than I think we were. [02:38] Um, and as I started to actually become [02:41] religious, that's when I was like, "Wait [02:42] a minute, we weren't doing most of this [02:43] stuff." [02:44] >> We drove to Shul on Chavez. What in the [02:46] world? [02:47] >> So, [02:47] >> would you classify it as, and I know [02:49] it's hard to pinpoint it, but like more [02:51] conserv? [02:53] >> Yeah, I would say like conservox, maybe [02:55] traditional. Um, [02:57] >> like we definitely celebrated all the [02:58] holidays. We like I remember making kala [03:01] with my mom every Friday morning. Um, [03:04] all that kind of stuff. But as time went [03:06] on, my family like ended up getting much [03:09] farther away from it. So by the time I [03:10] was maybe [03:12] I want to say like seven, we were [03:14] already definitely starting to leave any [03:17] sort of religious lifestyle. Um that's a [03:20] big difference between me and my [03:21] brothers. I have two little brothers and [03:25] they got a very different religious [03:27] experience than I did because even just [03:29] the three years between me and the [03:31] middle brother like that's a big three [03:33] years to have much more Judaism in your [03:35] life or not. I [03:38] remember very fondly all of the [03:40] religious stuff when I was younger and [03:43] you I remember going to the kosher [03:45] grocery store and uh all of the Shabas [03:49] prep and I loved Shabas that was amazing [03:52] like my whole family that was when we [03:53] were together and [03:56] I had a lot of shock when I my family [04:01] stopped being religious. It was like [04:03] very [04:05] I didn't see it coming and I didn't [04:07] understand it. That was very strange to [04:10] experience especially when you're like 7 [04:11] years old. [04:13] >> The world's very confusing at that point [04:15] in time. [04:16] >> And my big memory like the one where I [04:20] was like, "Wait, what is going on?" is I [04:22] remember one morning I woke up and I [04:24] very distinctly remember we took out [04:26] like a step stool and I climbed up to [04:27] get a cereal bowl um to have cereal for [04:29] breakfast and I looked in the cabinet [04:33] and all of the fleshic bowls were in [04:35] with the milk bowls and I was like whoa [04:37] what's going on I was like mommy like [04:40] you put them in the wrong place you made [04:41] a mistake and my parents were like oh [04:44] like we decided as a family that we're [04:46] not going to do that anymore I was like [04:50] very confused and I remember thinking to [04:51] myself, well, Hashem cared about this [04:53] yesterday. Why doesn't he care about [04:55] this today? Another big one was I [04:57] remember when we stopped buying the [04:58] kosher meat. Um, that I specifically [05:00] remember because I asked my mother why [05:02] the chicken didn't have so many [05:03] feathers. [laughter] [05:05] Um, but that was pretty [05:09] big for me. And at the time it was [05:13] very difficult to understand [05:16] just like as I said before why Hashem [05:18] would care yesterday and not today. Um, [05:20] I remember also like we said the shama [05:22] before bed every night and then one day [05:24] we stopped doing that and that was [05:26] something I kept up for a while by [05:28] myself but eventually I was like you [05:30] know clearly this isn't something [05:31] everyone's doing. It mustn't be [05:33] important I guess. So I stopped a lot of [05:35] that stuff and [05:37] I felt like I had stopped being [05:40] religious like my family. I think now [05:42] that I'm older and I can look back on [05:44] it. I think I was always raised like [05:45] religious in my heart. Um, but I didn't [05:49] know how to express it and I didn't [05:51] understand why there was a big [05:53] disconnect. Um, something we also had [05:56] that was like very confusing when I was [05:58] young was we had a lot of friends who [06:01] were religious [06:03] and I knew there was like a big drama. [06:07] Something had happened and we like [06:09] weren't invited back somewhere and I [06:12] didn't know why. And at the time like I [06:15] just was like did we do something wrong? [06:16] Is it because we're not as religious as [06:18] them? [06:19] Much later, I learned that that's [06:21] because there had been a issue with my [06:25] mother's conversion status. Um, and when [06:28] people had found out about that, [06:30] >> that obviously made things a little [06:32] awkward and a little different. Um, and [06:36] suddenly we were the non-Jewish kids [06:38] being invited to things, so it was a [06:40] little weird. Um, but I I distinctly [06:43] remember just all of these changes and [06:45] just not understanding why and why was I [06:48] the only one who cared about it. That [06:49] was a big thing. Like my whole family [06:51] seems to be acting like this is so [06:53] normal and to me I'm like the world is [06:54] changing. It's falling apart. What's [06:56] going on? [06:57] >> And it's this is maybe even more of your [06:59] parents story. But was do you do you [07:02] have clarity on why that day that [07:04] everything shifted so abruptly? [07:07] >> Well, it wasn't everything at the same [07:08] time. the cereal bowls was a really big [07:10] day. [07:11] >> But like that that tufa that period like [07:13] they started saying like okay we're just [07:15] dropping this. Do you know what was the [07:17] impetus? And again if you don't feel [07:19] comfortable to share you don't need to. [07:20] Um [07:21] >> I think it's a really complicated issue. [07:23] I don't think it's something that I can [07:24] just be like this is the reason, [07:26] >> right? [07:26] >> Um but I know that a lot of it had to do [07:29] with community. Um, when my parents were [07:32] younger, before they had us, they lived [07:33] in a conservative, I believe, like a [07:38] conservative, like they kept shabas in [07:40] that actual [07:41] um area with a really big community in [07:44] DC. Um, and [07:47] they had this idea that there was going [07:49] to be so much community waiting for them [07:51] in New Jersey. And then they got to New [07:54] Jersey and the people at the show were [07:56] all like very old and they didn't have [07:58] family programs and there was no hala [08:01] bakes. Things weren't happening. And I [08:03] think that hurt them a lot. Like it's [08:05] it's much harder to be Jewish without a [08:06] community. [08:08] >> And I think that that was a big part of [08:10] the reason that they ended up letting go [08:12] of a lot of it. [08:14] >> Um and then I'm sure they have their own [08:16] complicated reasons. [08:17] >> Sure. Okay. You're 7 years old and [08:19] there's a huge shift. them. And that [08:21] time in in life, it's also confusing. [08:23] You're just figuring out how the world [08:24] works. And [snorts] as time goes on, are [08:28] you [08:30] by your like how are you identifying [08:33] with the world as as Jewish, as not [08:36] Jewish, as religious, is not religious. [08:38] >> So at this point, I felt very strongly [08:40] that I was Jewish. Like I didn't had [08:41] never been told different. And I still [08:44] felt very connected to Hashem. I I [08:46] remember [08:47] um I shared a bedroom with my brother at [08:49] this point, you know, we were little and [08:52] I remember like if we got sent upstairs [08:54] cuz we were in trouble or something, I [08:55] remember like I'd pray to Hashem, I'd be [08:56] like, "Make mommy forgive me." [08:59] >> But all that stuff like that kind of it [09:03] was very in my head. I wasn't showing [09:05] anything outwardly. Um and I wasn't like [09:08] I wasn't asking questions. I wasn't [09:11] asking why we weren't doing things. I [09:13] just was kind of silently absorbing like [09:14] this is weird. What's going on? Why did [09:16] this stop? And who am I because of this? [09:19] Like who what is our family? Because we [09:23] had such a strong Jewish identity and [09:26] then for it to just kind of disappear [09:28] was like a very odd thing. It leaves [09:29] this hole of like what what is your [09:32] identity then? Um that I think was very [09:35] hard to process at such a young age. And [09:39] as time moves on, are you leaning more [09:43] towards Judaism or you're leaning more [09:45] away from it as you're reaching your [09:48] teens? And [09:50] >> like that, [09:50] >> for a while, my family joined a reform [09:53] temple. Um, and while I was there, I got [09:58] kind of disillusioned a little bit. um [10:01] that was the form of Judaism that I had [10:04] been presented with as somebody like old [10:06] enough to really think about it and it [10:09] was very confusing to me the way a lot [10:11] of that worked. Um I remember like on [10:16] one yum kipper uh the rabbi did like a [10:19] shtick where he was getting phone calls [10:21] from God but like the [clears throat] [10:23] phone was actually ringing and [10:24] everything and I remember just being [10:25] like this is this is not what I'm used [10:27] to. This is a little weird, but you [10:29] know, [10:29] >> it is a good stickle and [10:30] >> it was pretty funny. But uh [10:32] >> but yeah, for someone who's like shot on [10:35] and sh [10:37] >> it was a little you know strange to me [10:41] and because of that I think I got a [10:43] little pushed away from it. I also I was [10:45] homeschooled until sixth grade and I [10:48] didn't have an easy adjustment into [10:49] school and at that time like in Hebrew [10:52] school all of the kids went to the same [10:53] school. I went to a different school and [10:55] I had trouble making friends. So, I [10:58] think that pushed me away a little bit, [10:59] too. I was like, it wasn't a place I was [11:01] comfortable or I felt good. [11:03] >> Um, so as I got to my teen years, [11:08] I [11:09] like still in my inner dialogue and [11:13] stuff, I would be thinking about Hashem [11:15] and I would be praying, but I didn't [11:17] really know how to. And I something I [11:19] was always worried about is I was always [11:21] worried I was praying wrong, [11:22] >> which is kind of silly looking back, but [11:24] I was always like, is this how you do [11:26] it? Is this how you do it? Like I don't [11:27] know if I'm doing this right. Is he [11:28] listening? Like [11:29] >> like you'll get in trouble or it won't [11:31] work. [11:31] >> Well, I I was worried like it wasn't [11:33] going to work. I was like, am I doing [11:34] this wrong and he's not listening? Like [11:36] looking back, obviously that's silly. [11:39] But I remember being very stressed about [11:40] that in high school. Um but people would [11:43] I I lived in an environment. I went to a [11:45] school that was very very [11:48] I guess like anti-religious. There was, [11:51] this sounds strange, but there was like [11:53] pressure, peer pressure to be an [11:55] atheist. And I felt it very strongly [11:58] like there, you got a lot, a lot of [12:00] judgment if you were any type of [12:01] religious. And there was this idea that [12:04] it was like a science school and you [12:07] were, you know, you were above that [12:08] stuff. And I remember that bothered me a [12:11] lot cuz my friends would be like, "Oh, [12:13] you know, we don't believe in God. God's [12:14] not real." And I would just sit there [12:17] and be like, "Really? You don't? Like, [12:19] you don't believe at all? like you guys [12:21] are serious. Um, so I always was [12:24] thinking about it, but at that point I [12:27] wasn't like lighting shabas candles. I [12:29] wasn't [snorts] [12:31] >> The one thing I was is I never ate like [12:34] bully tra. Um, I like kosher style, [12:37] which obviously isn't kosher, but I was [12:38] never eating pork or shellfish or [12:40] anything like that. [12:41] >> And I think that was like the little [12:42] thing I held on to. I was like, I'm not [12:43] giving this up completely. It's still [12:45] there. this still makes me, you know, [12:48] stick out in a way that I liked. I was [12:50] like, this still makes me part of [12:52] something. [12:53] >> Um, and I know that for my dad, too, he [12:56] never stopped eating kosher style. Um, [12:58] he still does today. And that's [13:00] something that makes you feel much more [13:03] rooted in your Judaism when you have [13:05] this thing that makes you different um [13:07] in a positive way. [13:08] >> Sure. Okay. So, you're making your way [13:10] through school and you're having this, I [13:13] guess, challenge because going from home [13:15] school to this very science-based [13:18] school. [13:18] >> That that was high school. In between I [13:20] was actually at a Quaker school. Um, [13:23] >> and that was [13:26] like I would say kind of just [13:28] a-religious. There wasn't any pressure [13:30] there, but there definitely wasn't any [13:32] like strong sense of religion. I think [13:34] Quakerism like is a religion, but the [13:36] school wasn't religious like that. [13:38] >> Interesting. Um, it was a very [13:39] interesting school. Um, [13:42] but that was just I got bullied a lot [13:44] there. It wasn't a good experience. And [13:46] then I went to this prep school for high [13:48] school. And that's where it was like [13:50] very very anti- relligion, very, you [13:54] know, if you're going to be good enough [13:55] to be here, you have to just be on [13:57] science and this and that. And you, you [13:59] know, can't be believing in that [14:01] wishy-washy stuff was basically the [14:03] attitude. Was it intentional that you [14:05] went there from your parents or that was [14:07] just a place that it made sense to? [14:09] >> My father had gone there. Um, when he [14:11] went there, it was also a very different [14:12] school like things had changed a lot [14:14] over the years. [14:15] >> Um, and so I went as like a legacy [14:18] basically. And there were things about [14:20] the school that was great, but it was [14:21] unfortunate how intense the environment [14:24] was on like what you needed to believe. [14:27] It was also politically like that a lot. [14:29] it was kind of a you have to fit into [14:30] this box or else there's something wrong [14:32] with you and you don't really belong [14:34] here. [14:35] >> Um but I I really struggled with that [14:37] cuz I didn't agree with them on the [14:38] things that they were saying. And it [14:40] felt surreal to have this whole school [14:42] full of people that just have completely [14:46] different beliefs than you. After that [14:49] environment, did you start to gravitate [14:53] closer towards Judaism or did it like [14:55] maybe seep in and you were more [15:00] okay with having less religion in your [15:02] life? [15:02] >> When I was actually at the school, it [15:04] kind of went back and forth. Um, there [15:06] was a guy who went there who was as [15:11] religious as my family was when I was [15:13] younger. Um he was one of like maybe [15:16] four Jews in the whole school. Um and I [15:19] remember like we were in a lot of [15:21] classes together and that kind of helped [15:22] me stay connected because he would talk [15:24] about the holidays and he'd talk about [15:26] like keeping for Pesak and all these [15:28] things and it would kind of remind me of [15:30] where I was coming from. But [15:33] >> was there ever a moment where you felt [15:35] you just needed to connect more to [15:37] Judaism? [15:39] I [15:41] throughout that high school like I [15:43] definitely felt a disconnect. But when I [15:45] was 17, um there was a really big [15:47] incident in my life. A very close family [15:50] member almost died and all the adults [15:53] went to the hospital and I was home with [15:55] the kids. [15:57] And that was at the point where I was [16:00] like very scared that I didn't know how [16:01] to pray. But I was so scared that this [16:04] person was going to die, God forbid. Um, [16:07] and I put the kids to bed and I [16:10] literally stayed up the entire night [16:12] until it was morning just saying over [16:15] and over again. And that was because [16:17] that's what I remembered. I was like, I [16:18] don't know really how you're supposed to [16:19] pray, but I remember before I went to [16:21] bed, I said, you know, I said Israel, [16:24] this is the prayer I remember and I know [16:26] it's important. And I literally stayed [16:28] up the entire night just saying it over [16:30] and over again. And after that, I was [16:32] like, wait, I really need Hashem. like I [16:35] couldn't have gotten through this [16:36] without him. And I realized like, wow, [16:40] something is really missing for my life. [16:42] This isn't a little thing that I'm [16:43] missing. This is something I need. It's [16:46] really special. And I'm sure I'm going [16:48] to butcher this story, but there's like [16:51] some was it was in like the raim. I [16:54] don't know how they knew it was it was [16:55] like shaking up Shamayim and everyone's [16:57] like, "Who is this from like the biggest [16:58] gud?" And they found out I don't know [17:01] how through speaking to Mal. I don't [17:03] know how, but it was like this person [17:05] and they like went to him and they [17:07] realized he this is many years ago. He [17:09] was like illiterate and he didn't really [17:11] know even how to uh read Hebrew or [17:14] alipes and things like that and they [17:17] like we heard that you have this crazy [17:20] in in Sham like what you don't even know [17:22] how to davin. He said it's like yum [17:24] kiper and I I don't know to davin but I [17:26] I just said the alf over and over and in [17:30] shm whatever like rearranged the letters [17:32] to mean whatever it needed to mean but [17:34] his intent his heart was in it so that's [17:36] what I think of when you say your story [17:39] >> that's exactly what it was like I I [17:41] didn't know what words to say but I knew [17:42] it was in my heart and hashem heard it [17:44] you know [17:44] >> it's also good word I mean it's alo like [17:46] pretty good words to say you know it's [17:48] like [17:50] over and over you know like it's like [17:53] you know, that's a good one to go with. [17:54] Yeah. Of the best uh word uh phrases and [17:56] suck to say. We're going to be right [17:58] back. But first, if you want to bring [17:59] more Torah into your home, Felheim just [18:02] made it easy and this is the season to [18:04] do it. We're going to start off with [18:05] Vajarv volume 4 by Rabbi Yak [18:07] Zilberstein. Every week, the para raises [18:10] questions most of us never even think to [18:12] ask, and Rabbi Zilberstein works through [18:14] them with real challenges and real [18:15] solutions. It will change the way you [18:17] look at the para and how you treat your [18:19] Shabas table. Obviously, you're going to [18:21] want to get the earlier volumes, too. [18:22] So, get the entire series. Literally, [18:25] your kids are going to love it at the [18:26] Shabbat table. Then, there's a volume [18:28] four. It's a lot of volume fours here. [18:29] Hak challenges for the whole family, [18:32] also from the Torah wisdom of Raine. 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[20:43] >> It wasn't until college that I really or [20:47] I would say the summer before college [20:50] was when I really started getting [20:51] reconnected again. Um, at that point I [20:56] wanted to reconnect, but I didn't know [20:57] how to. So, I kind of just went with [21:00] like what's the closest Shaw? It's the [21:02] one I grew up, you know, right down the [21:04] street. Um, so I started going there, [21:06] but [21:08] it I quickly realized it wasn't what I [21:10] was looking for. Again, there was no [21:11] community. Um, it was a lot of older [21:13] people, no families, definitely nobody [21:16] my age. Um, and it was just [21:22] you felt like you were there for a show, [21:23] not there to be part of it. Um, if that [21:26] makes any sense. Like I feel like in [21:28] Orthodox shows you feel part of it. [21:30] You're domining. You're in it. Um, and [21:32] at that show it felt a little more like, [21:34] you know, you're here to watch them do [21:35] it. Um, so it just [21:38] >> it felt I knew it was off. I didn't [21:39] >> You're more in the audience versus like [21:41] being an actor or character in [21:44] >> Exactly. Um, and I didn't like that. I [21:46] was like, I want to be a part of this. [21:47] And also, I was like, I don't even [21:49] understand what's in the sitter. They're [21:50] going through it so fast. I didn't read [21:51] Hebrew that fast. I doing all these [21:55] things. Like, I didn't know how to daven [21:57] or anything. So, I was super confused [21:59] the whole time. Um, and it just wasn't [22:02] an environment that really fostered the [22:04] type of [22:06] growth that I needed at that point. Um, [22:09] so I ended up like petering out on it a [22:12] little bit right before I went to [22:13] college. And then I got to college and [22:15] it was also a very very secular [22:18] environment that also encouraged you to [22:20] be a-religious. And um I think a lot of [22:23] colleges are like that nowadays. It's [22:25] not so unique. But it was definitely [22:30] kind of just another round of like I [22:32] don't agree with any of these people [22:34] here. I don't have something in common [22:35] with these people here. And almost like [22:38] I almost felt I had to be embarrassed of [22:40] how I believed because it was so [22:42] different from everybody else. I was [22:43] like, do do I like share this with [22:45] people? [22:46] >> Um, and then my my freshman year of [22:49] college, I actually [22:52] convinced the school to let me start [22:54] lighting Shabas candles partway through [22:55] the year. It started with Kaneka. I [22:57] wanted to light a minora [22:59] and I emailed like a million people and [23:03] nobody got back to me. And I finally got [23:05] someone to just tell me like who do I [23:07] really need to email? [23:08] >> So I emailed her a million times. She [23:10] never got back to me. Finally, I found [23:12] out where her office was and I marched [23:14] in unannounced and I showed [23:15] [clears throat] up at her door and I [23:17] said, "For religious reasons, I would [23:18] like to light Hanukkah candles. Where [23:20] can I do that?" And she was like so [23:22] taken aback that I just marched into her [23:23] office that she was like, "I guess we'll [23:26] set up a table for you." So, they set up [23:29] a table and we lit candles there and [23:31] that was really special because I got [23:33] all the different Jewish kids from the [23:35] school to like walk by and they would [23:36] see it and they would come in. [23:38] But after that, I was like, "Well, they [23:41] gave me permission to light candles for [23:42] the first time. I'm not going to ask [23:44] again." So then I just started lighting [23:46] Shabas candles every week. Um, and that [23:49] was really cool, too, because I had some [23:51] other Jewish students that would come [23:53] and like light Shabas candles with me, [23:55] and that was really special. Um, but I [23:58] was still at a very secular place. like [24:00] I I was definitely not looking at things [24:04] through an orthodox lens mostly because [24:06] I didn't really know what that looked [24:07] like. [24:09] >> And then it wasn't until [24:13] came around and I was really missing my [24:16] family cuz that was always the big [24:17] holiday where all the cousins got [24:19] together and everything. And I called my [24:22] parents like really upset. I'm so [24:23] homesick. I want to come home. I can't [24:24] come home. [24:26] and they said, "Okay, we'll find [24:30] somewhere that has a seder and go to the [24:32] seder." So, I look at all the [24:34] conservative synagogues in all of [24:36] Boston. And not a single one has a [24:39] seder. So, I'm like, what do I do? Like, [24:42] okay, let me do some math here. I'll go [24:43] one reform, I'll go to one Orthodox, and [24:45] that should equal conservative. [24:47] [laughter] [24:48] Um, so the first night was a kabad. It [24:52] was kabad MIT. Um, and the second night [24:55] was a reform temple and I went to the [25:01] Kabad one. I remember I taken the Uber [25:03] and I'm calling my mom from the Uber. [25:05] Um, and she's like, "Okay, you know, [25:07] just remember it's don't let them get [25:09] you." [25:10] >> And I was like, "Mom, me? You think [25:12] they're going to get me? That's [25:13] ridiculous." [25:15] >> They got me. [laughter] [25:16] I came back that night and I told all my [25:18] friends I was going to be an Orthodox [25:19] Jew. [25:20] >> Wow. [25:20] >> And they all said, [25:21] >> "Hold on to break it down. what happened [25:23] there that you're like this is amazing. [25:26] I'm I'm joining the cults. I'm joining [25:28] like what happened there? [25:29] >> Um I [25:31] it was just such a warm environment and [25:34] everybody was so passionate who was [25:36] there. There was also I know like kabad [25:39] on campus can be a very secular [25:40] environment but there were quite a [25:42] number of Orthodox people there and a [25:44] lot of girls my age. We all sat at a [25:46] table together and I really started [25:47] talking to them and getting to know them [25:49] and they were so passionate. I thought [25:52] that was really special and it was like, [25:53] wow, these people care about the things [25:55] I care about. Like, nobody around me [25:57] cares about all the things I care about. [25:58] All of a sudden, these people are [25:59] talking about Hashem openly. They're [26:01] proud to be Jewish. They're not, you [26:04] know, ashamed that they believe in God [26:06] and that they believe these things. And [26:08] it was really beautiful to me. And then [26:11] the rabbi and the rabbits actually [26:12] invited me to come sit at their table [26:14] like with their family. And I got to [26:17] just see the way that like a from family [26:20] works and the way that uh seder works [26:22] where everybody's seriously invested and [26:24] everybody cares and wants to be there. [26:26] Um and I just [clears throat] thought it [26:28] was so beautiful. I was like this is [26:29] what I've been missing. I've been [26:30] feeling this hole in my heart and this [26:34] is what I've been missing. And I I [26:37] literally I went home that night. I told [26:39] all my friends. I was like I figured out [26:40] what's wrong with my life. I'm going to [26:42] be an Orthodox Jew. All of them were [26:44] like, "Yeah, get back to us in a week. [26:46] They definitely thought I was having [26:47] some sort of like manic episode. [26:49] [laughter] [26:50] Um, I guess I wasn't. Here I am. [26:54] >> But that was big for me. And I I had [26:57] when I was in Boston, like I was I was [26:59] very lost. I knew very quickly that [27:04] there was something huge missing from my [27:05] life, but it was very hard for me to [27:06] figure out what that was. And I remember [27:10] like walking around at night. I had um I [27:14] had a this keychain that my dad got me [27:16] at this random Judeica store we when we [27:18] were in Brooklyn and it was a keychain [27:21] that had like Jerusalem on it and it was [27:23] shaped like a hand and I remember I [27:27] would like loop the part of the keychain [27:30] around my finger and I would hold it in [27:31] my hand like this and I would go out and [27:34] I would walk around just trying to like [27:35] process everything and [27:38] process what I was dealing with and who [27:40] I was and what I was trying to be. And [27:44] I don't know if you know anything about [27:45] Boston, it's not a great place to walk [27:47] around at night. [laughter] [27:49] Um, and I remember I was just thinking [27:51] like like I'm holding hands with Hashem [27:53] right now. Like Hashem is here with me. [27:54] It's going to be okay. Like I just need [27:56] to get through this. And looking back, [28:00] it's a miracle because you really [28:02] shouldn't walk alone around Boston at [28:04] night. But Hashem was so with me in [28:06] those moments that by the time that I [28:08] got to that Satan and by the time I had [28:11] the pieces starting to fall together, [28:12] that was just like that's what I've been [28:14] walking around thinking about, that's [28:15] what I've been missing and trying to [28:16] find like it's Hashem. [28:19] >> Um, so that was very big for me and [28:23] really launched all of this. [28:26] >> So, you know, it would be the end of [28:30] your story. They're like, "Oh, and then [28:31] you became, you know, more religious and [28:33] orthodox." That would be like the simple [28:37] story, but there was a little wrench in [28:39] the plans. [28:40] >> There's a little wrench in the works. [28:42] Um, I found out after [28:45] getting back home, I I didn't go to [28:47] college again the next year. I was not [28:49] for me. Um, and I found out that I was [28:54] notically Jewish, which was a huge shock [28:57] to me. Um, I knew my mom was a convert, [28:59] but it had always been explained to me [29:01] like it's kosher, it's kosher, it's [29:02] definitely kosher. Um, and I've talked [29:06] to her since and like when they talked [29:08] to her about it when she was in the [29:10] conversion process, she didn't have [29:12] access to orthodoxy. She didn't, you [29:14] know, know [29:15] >> that she was choosing something [29:17] different really. She thought she was [29:18] just choosing Judaism. [29:20] And [29:22] she was specifically told that there was [29:26] a very small group of hidum that [29:27] wouldn't believe her conversion, but [29:29] everyone else would say it was kosher. [29:31] >> She was very specifically told this. So [29:33] that's what I was told, you know, [29:35] >> and that was a huge shock when I found [29:38] out. It was very dramatic. And then I [29:40] went back and forth a little bit trying [29:42] to figure it out for a while. Like I got [29:44] an answer that maybe I was. And I was [29:45] like, "Oh my gosh, amazing." Um, and [29:47] then the final verdict came in that was [29:49] like, "No, you're notically Jewish." Um, [29:52] that was devastating. Oh my gosh. I like [29:55] cried for three months. It was horrible. [29:56] >> Were you Were you sad? Were you mad? All [29:59] the above. [29:59] >> All of the above. Like I was angry. I [30:02] felt lied to. Not really by my parents, [30:04] just by like the world, you know? Like I [30:06] felt [30:07] >> I felt lied to and just heartbroken. And [30:10] >> Judaism was the part of my identity that [30:12] I always felt solid in. I I had been so [30:14] lost on so many other parts of my life [30:16] throughout my life, but I always felt [30:18] like I'm Jewish. That's the thing I can [30:19] hold on to. And then all of a sudden, [30:21] it's like, by the way, you're not. And I [30:24] was like, whoa, what do you mean the [30:25] biggest part of my identity is just out [30:27] the window? Um, but I ended up kind of [30:31] realizing that, you know, in the end, [30:35] the path to studying on your own and [30:38] becoming religious on your own when [30:39] you're already Jewish is not very [30:41] clear-cut. [30:43] and it's confusing and you have to [30:44] navigate it on your own. In the end, [30:47] conversion ended up being a huge braha [30:49] for me because I got a very clear path [30:51] of what I need to do, what I need to [30:53] learn. Um, I literally went through like [30:55] a program and everything. And I think [30:58] that it would have been much much harder [31:00] to try to navigate all of that outside [31:02] of a conversion. Um, so in the end, I'm [31:05] actually very grateful that it happened. [31:07] And I think it was a very, [31:10] very difficult experience. It's the [31:11] hardest thing I've ever done. Um, but [31:13] the most rewarding thing I've ever done, [31:15] too. So, [31:16] >> was there ever a moment where you're [31:17] like, obviously you're you're on the [31:20] path to, you know, becoming more and [31:21] more religious and connected to God and [31:23] then it's like, wait, hold on. [31:24] Technically technically you're not [31:26] Jewish. So, then you're like, I'll get [31:29] I'm going to get get right back. Just [31:30] give me a week. I'm going to go do and [31:32] try every food and do everything. So [31:35] once I actually realized I wasn't [31:38] Jewish, I didn't have that experience [31:40] because I [31:41] >> Oh, you wasted it. No kind of go. [31:44] >> Um because I was already like pretty [31:46] sold on the whole thing. But I did in [31:48] college after I got home and manically [31:50] told all my friends I was going to be an [31:51] Orthodox Jew. Um everyone was like [31:54] really wanting me to evaluate this. I [31:56] think they really think thought I lost [31:57] my mind. Um maybe I did. [32:00] And I had this week where I it was very [32:04] dramatic. I took off. I had like a Kai [32:06] necklace I always was wearing. I took it [32:08] off and I like got in this mindset. I [32:13] was like, "Do you even do you care about [32:14] this really? Like do you really want to [32:15] be religious?" And I decided to leave it [32:18] all behind. I was like, "This week, I'm [32:19] not going to light Shabas candles. I'm [32:20] not going to acknowledge that it's [32:21] Shabas. Um I'm not going to, you know, [32:25] pray at all. I'm not going to do [32:26] anything." I run out. I tried a chili [32:29] cheese dog at 7-Eleven. [32:32] Um, to anyone listening, you're not [32:34] missing much. [laughter] [32:36] Um, but that was like my big I was like, [32:38] "This is my rebellion week. I'm going to [32:40] be not Jewish at all and I'm going to [32:41] see how it is." And I got to the end of [32:43] the week and I felt horrible. I was [32:44] like, "This is terrible. I I don't like [32:46] this. Um, I want to be Jewish." Um, but [32:50] by the time I actually got to finding [32:52] out I wasn't Jewish, I had like already [32:53] gotten that out of my system. [32:54] >> Right. Right. Right. [clears throat] Oh, [32:56] that's that's really incredible. Wow. [32:58] Okay. And how long did the conversion [33:00] process for you take? [33:03] >> So, it was really supposed to be closer [33:05] to a year. Um, and that's what everyone [33:07] told me it was going to be. [33:08] >> Um, but I had a miscommunication with my [33:11] rabbi that was totally 100% my fault. [33:13] [laughter] Um, [33:15] >> I I'm dyslexic. Okay. [33:17] >> Which makes, you know, reading a [33:18] thousand [33:19] >> studying. Yeah. All all the stuff that's [33:21] not so simple. [33:21] >> Didn't didn't make it easier, for sure. [33:24] Um, and the rabbi had told me like, [33:28] "Read these books and then come back to [33:30] me and we'll talk about it." And what he [33:32] had meant was like, you know, just read [33:33] them and like quickly and we'll get [33:35] through it and we'll talk. What I heard [33:38] was like memorize these books and then [33:40] get back to me. [33:41] >> Oh, wow. Okay. [33:42] >> I don't know what I was thinking, but I [33:45] ended up spending so much time on all [33:47] these books and I think he was trying [33:48] not to pressure me. He's like, you know, [33:50] I can't pressure her to convert. Maybe [33:51] she's not so interested. I don't know [33:53] exactly what he was thinking. I [33:56] >> then found out about 8 months into my [33:58] conversion that I was like not even [33:59] halfway through [34:01] >> the the program and I was like [34:03] absolutely [snorts] shocked. I couldn't [34:04] believe it. Like I had felt like I [34:07] hadn't learned enough but I felt like I [34:08] was following the program so whatever. [34:11] Um and that was a little bit [34:13] devastating. I was really upset. Um I I [34:17] struggled with that a lot because I felt [34:18] like I was so close to the end and then [34:20] I find out like I'm nowhere near the [34:21] end. So that's when everybody very very [34:25] kindly like backed up and really worked [34:27] with me and helped me. Um and [34:31] I started to study more in a way that [34:33] was like at a normal speed. Um and so in [34:38] the end it took me almost two years [34:40] actually to convert. But the journey [34:43] started much earlier than that because [34:45] originally [34:47] the show I ended up converting at um or [34:49] the sponsoring rabbi and everything was [34:52] where I moved because I had to you know [34:54] you have to be in walking distance of a [34:55] shaw to convert. Um [34:57] >> but originally I started my journey at a [35:00] scholabad [35:02] Jewish center of Monroe New Jersey. I [35:05] desperately wanted to move there and [35:07] convert there, but there it was one of [35:09] those situations where it was just like [35:11] you could buy a house or you could live [35:12] in like a retirement community and [35:14] neither of those were going to work for [35:15] me. So, [35:16] >> there was nowhere for me to move. I'm [35:18] still very very close with the family [35:19] today. Like they were by the aisle when [35:21] I uh got engaged. [35:24] >> But I I really started everything there. [35:26] So, it was much longer. And while I was [35:28] there, I was always looking for a place [35:30] to move. um the rabbi there really tried [35:34] to help me find a place but it it just [35:36] wasn't possible. So then I had to wait [35:38] and you know it's a big deal to also [35:42] move out of your house and make all [35:44] these changes. So for my parents this [35:47] was all very [35:50] new and a little crazy. They definitely [35:52] thought I'd lost it a little bit. Um, [35:54] and [35:56] part of the condition was like they were [35:58] very nervous about me not being in [36:00] college and doing a conversion. They [36:02] felt like, you know, it's an eitheror [36:04] and you're choosing the wrong one kind [36:05] of thing. And I kind of made a deal with [36:10] my family. I was like, okay, I'll move [36:12] into a community that's close to the [36:14] community college and I'll do school [36:18] there at the same time. So that's that's [36:22] what I've been doing. I'm I started a [36:24] nursing program there. Um I'm very early [36:26] on. I don't know anything about nursing [36:28] yet, but [36:31] that was definitely harder to manage [36:32] than I thought. I was like, "Oh, no big [36:34] deal. I'll do the conversion and [36:35] school." Turns out [36:37] >> it's a lot of studying on both ends. [36:39] [laughter] It's [36:40] >> It's a lot to do. Um I struggled with it [36:42] way more than I thought I would. But [36:45] obviously the conversion worked out. [36:47] >> Um and the school's getting there. Okay. [36:50] I mean, you didn't give a time frame to [36:52] your family in terms of when you're [36:53] going to finish it, so you're you're on [36:55] that path. 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[38:01] BF Design, architects of the from [38:04] community. Now, as you're watching this, [38:06] thousands of families in Israel are [38:08] wondering how they're going to put food [38:09] on the table. That's where Kohabad comes [38:11] in. For generations, they have been [38:13] making sure the neediest people in [38:14] Israel have food, shelter, and the basic [38:16] necessities. So many families deserve to [38:19] live with with dignity and you can be [38:21] part of it in seconds. The Kabad Pushk [38:24] app makes giving to Daka every day [38:26] incredibly simple and honestly fun. [38:28] Download it once and set your reminders [38:29] and wherever you are, you will always [38:31] have a Pushka with you. I don't care if [38:33] you're traveling to Uganda, you're going [38:35] to have the Kabad Pushka with you. Start [38:37] with just a dollar a day or maybe a [38:38] $100. It's not about how much you give. 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You will hear from experts [39:25] in each field and learn how AI is [39:27] changing the jobcape and what you should [39:29] do about it. And if you're confused and [39:31] you don't know what field you're going [39:32] into, there is a special session with an [39:35] experienced career counselor to help you [39:37] figure it out. Just go to [39:38] woodmancol.edu/openhouse edu/openhouse [39:41] to sign up. Of course, you click the [39:42] link in the show notes. It's free and [39:44] honestly, this will give you the clarity [39:45] you're looking for. And hurry because [39:47] this is happening from October 19th [39:49] through October 22nd, starting Monday, [39:52] October 19th. People are signing up [39:53] right now as we speak. So, don't miss [39:55] the chance to get the clarity you [39:57] deserve. Go to woodmancol.edu/openhouse. [40:00] Now, back to my conversation with [40:01] Shashana. What was the feeling, you [40:03] know, after you officially became [40:06] Jewish? because I'm sure for everyone [40:09] who converts it's it's such a big deal. [40:11] But you specifically like growing up [40:14] traditional and then your family leaving [40:17] it and then like you holding on to that [40:19] identity and then just exploring and [40:21] figuring out and then jumping into it [40:23] and then realizing you're not Jewish and [40:24] then studying like crazy and then now [40:27] you're finally fully like that identity [40:30] that you knew you're actually Jewish. [40:31] Like how does that actually feel? [40:34] >> That was an insane day. Um, [40:37] [clears throat] I remember so the bin [40:40] only met with me like late at night over [40:43] Zoom. So I was absolutely terrified and [40:46] exhausted for every meeting. Um, and [40:49] then when we got to that meeting where [40:50] they were like, "We're going to make a [40:51] date." I was so excited and they're [40:54] like, "Oh, we'll get back to you." Like, [40:56] "Okay, I can't wait. Like, it's going to [40:57] be so soon." Then like a month goes by [40:59] and we haven't heard anything. Um, and I [41:02] think my rabbi like checked in and was [41:04] like, "Hey, you know, you guys remember [41:05] her?" [laughter] [41:06] And they gave me a date, but it was [41:08] still like three weeks away. I was going [41:11] crazy. I was like, "I need this to [41:12] happen now. I can't wait anymore." Um, [41:14] and I finally I finally got to the day. [41:16] And [41:19] that was, oh my gosh, I was so I was [41:21] shaking. I was so scared when they're [41:22] asking the questions. Um, and they [41:25] started asking me all of these different [41:28] questions. And I was doing really good [41:29] at first. And then as the questions [41:31] started to get like harder and harder [41:32] and I'm starting to struggle and then I [41:34] got like two wrong and I was like, "Oh [41:35] my gosh, they're not going to convert [41:36] me." Um, and we get to the end and they [41:38] were like, "No, you passed a while ago. [41:40] We just wanted to see how much you [41:41] knew." [41:42] >> Amazing. Okay. I almost had a heart [41:44] attack, but no big deal. [laughter] [41:46] >> Um, so then I, you know, I converted and [41:51] it was incredibly emotional, but I [41:54] didn't have the emotional reaction I [41:55] expected. Like I thought I was going to [41:56] cry. I thought it was going to be very [41:57] emotional like that. But I think I had [41:59] much more of that inner reaction that [42:01] I've been having my whole life where it [42:02] was just like [42:03] >> this is right. Like everything is the [42:05] way it's supposed to be now and now I [42:07] get to live the rest of my life the way [42:08] it's supposed to be. [42:10] >> Which is an incredible feeling to have [42:12] to be like I figured it out. This is [42:14] this worked. And it was also just crazy [42:16] to think about [42:18] how many times I could have been [42:20] completely turned away from Judaism and [42:22] how much I kept it anyway. And the fact [42:25] that it all really came to fruition was [42:28] incredibly rewarding. That same day, I [42:32] literally I went home, I made a Tik Tok, [42:34] and then I went straight to a wedding in [42:37] Stamford, Connecticut. So, I had to [42:39] drive so far. [42:41] >> And I got to the wedding. It was for the [42:43] son of the Schlim in Monroe. [42:46] >> And I got there and I was like, do I [42:48] like tell people? Like, I don't want to [42:50] be obnoxious. I'm at somebody else's [42:51] wedding. Do I start telling all my [42:52] friends? And so I just like I told one [42:55] of my friends like a close friend who [42:56] also had converted like a few months [42:58] before. I was like, "Guess what? Like [43:00] today was the day. Like I'm Jewish now." [43:02] And I was like, "Don't don't make a big [43:03] deal out of it." And she's like [43:04] screaming, hugging [laughter] me. [43:06] >> Don't make a big deal. Right. [43:08] >> Basically. Exactly. [43:10] >> Um and then I still wasn't sure. I was [43:14] like, "Do I tell more people?" Whatever. [43:16] And unfortunately there had been like a [43:18] a loss in the family like the week [43:20] before the wedding. And I was talking to [43:23] one of the daughters and I was like, [43:25] "Okay, like you I'm going to tell you [43:26] something. Don't tell anybody else." And [43:27] I told her, I was like, "I did my [43:28] conversion today. Like, I'm done. I'm [43:30] Jewish." And she's like, "No, you have [43:31] to tell everyone cuz everyone's like [43:33] upset about this loss. This will make it [43:34] better. Like, come tell everybody." So, [43:37] I went and I sold the other sisters and [43:40] they were all like jumping up so happy [43:41] for me, hugging me. [43:43] >> And then I went to tell um the mother [43:46] and I was like scared. I was like, "This [43:48] is your big day really for your family. [43:51] like I'm making it about me. And I went [43:53] and I she was like, you know, you have [43:54] to tell her, you have to tell her. So I [43:56] told her and she starts like introducing [43:58] me to people. She's like, this is [43:59] Shashana. She just converted today. And [44:02] all these random people at the wedding [44:03] are like coming up to me, hugging me. [44:05] Um, one woman was like, can I just hold [44:07] your hand? You're so holy today. And I [44:09] was like, I didn't know what to say to [44:10] that, but that was so sweet. Um, and it [44:15] actually ended up being a really [44:16] beautiful way for that day to go because [44:18] I ended up having like all of the people [44:19] I cared about around me for the most [44:21] part. Obviously, not like my family, but [44:23] all of my close friends and all the [44:25] people that had kind of become family [44:26] over this time [44:28] >> were there with me on such a big day [44:30] >> coincidentally. Um, but it was a really [44:33] beautiful experience and I got to go [44:35] around and like everyone was just so [44:39] happy for me which you know I knew they [44:42] all cared about me and everything but I [44:43] didn't understand how much they were [44:45] really invested in my Jewish journey [44:48] >> until then and it was like wow like I [44:51] had so much support through this. It's [44:53] incredible. [44:54] >> That's really beautiful. And your name [44:56] originally is Shashana. So, I had like a [45:01] baby naming, you know, everything when I [45:03] was born. Um, and I was given the name [45:05] Shashan Braha. [45:07] >> Um, I my English name is Rose and that's [45:10] what I went by most of my life. Like in [45:11] Hebrew school, I was always Shoshi cuz I [45:13] always had like Israeli Hebrew school [45:15] teachers. Um, I guess that's like the [45:16] big nickname, [45:17] >> right? [45:18] >> Um, but it wasn't until [45:23] much more recently that I really started [45:25] exclusively going by Shashana. Um, and [45:28] it's still I have a lot of people who [45:29] are like getting used to it. They'll be [45:30] like, "Rose, no wait, Shashana." [45:32] >> Um, [45:32] >> well, I'm curious cuz I don't know how [45:34] it works, but did did you have the [45:36] option when you converted to like choose [45:38] a different name? Cuz cuz typically when [45:40] someone converts, it's like their name [45:41] is only Rose, so it's like, "Okay, we're [45:43] going to choose a Hebrew name, but you [45:44] had a Hebrew name technically." [45:46] >> It was a very weird thing. Yeah. I I [45:48] asked that question. I was like, "So, do [45:50] I do I have to choose a different one? [45:51] Can I choose like how does this work?" [45:53] And they're like, "No, you have a Hebrew [45:54] name. You're just not Jewish." [45:55] >> Oh, interesting. So that [45:57] >> so I but I'm happy with it. [45:59] >> Yeah, great name. [46:00] >> It it makes it special to me also that [46:02] my parents chose it. Like I think it [46:03] would be a [clears throat] little hard [46:04] to [46:05] >> have chose my own and go by that and [46:07] completely abandon what my family had [46:09] done for me. And so it's special to me [46:11] that I still have the Hebrew name that [46:13] my parents chose for me. That's very [46:14] nice. And then so yeah, when we [46:16] orchestrated this interview, yeah, we [46:18] went through this and then like a week a [46:20] literally a week ago, maybe less, I see [46:22] you by the aisle with this great guy who [46:24] I've seen on Instagram. I'm like, you're [46:25] engaged? That's amazing. So, I guess [46:28] tell us there if you were set up, you [46:30] met, how about it? [46:31] >> My my b So, I was working as a nanny at [46:34] the time. Um, I work at a now, but my [46:37] boss basically uh I want to say like [46:40] maybe a week before my conversion. At [46:42] this point, we had the date, so like we [46:43] knew it was happening. She basically [46:46] tells me like, "I think I met your [46:47] husband." I was like, "What do you [46:49] mean?" She's like, "No, like I I met [46:52] this guy. I am telling you like it's [46:54] perfect. [46:55] You have to you have to meet him. You [46:57] have to talk to him. I was like, "Okay." [46:59] She's like, "But I can't tell you [47:00] anything about him until you convert." [47:01] [laughter] [47:02] >> So, I'm just living with this [47:03] information for a week. She's like, "I [47:04] have your husband. No information about [47:06] him, though." Um, and so I wait, I [47:10] convert. I think literally either that [47:13] day or the next day, she like sends me [47:14] his resume. At this point, I don't have [47:16] a resume. I don't know what to do. I [47:18] like frantically call like my friend and [47:21] be like like how do I make a [laughter] [47:23] resume? What do I do? And she like walks [47:25] me through all of it. Um and I like I [47:28] didn't have a picture. I didn't have [47:30] anything. I ended up using a picture [47:31] from like like a cropped photo from [47:33] someone's wedding. [47:34] >> They cut everyone else out. [47:36] >> It was like ridiculous. And I was just [47:38] kind of thinking like what, you know, [47:40] I'll try it. We'll see what happens. And [47:43] I wasn't really sold on it. I was like, [47:44] I don't think you really [47:47] know, but I'll I'll trust you on this [47:49] one. Um, and you know, obviously the [47:52] families did the phone calls back and [47:53] forth. My parents don't know how to do [47:54] that. So, my boss ended up doing it for [47:56] me. She acted as like my mom and [47:58] [clears throat] did all the calls and [48:00] everything. And then I get the verdict [48:02] like, "Oh, we think you should go out [48:04] with him. We think it's going to work." [48:06] So, I waited and I can't remember [48:09] exactly how long it was in between then [48:11] and actually us meeting, but it was [48:13] definitely a few weeks. Um, and at this [48:16] point, I thought that he lived in New [48:18] Jersey. Um, nobody had mentioned to me [48:20] that he did it. [laughter] [48:22] >> Small detail. [48:24] >> So, I'm like, "Okay, you know, he's [48:26] going to come pick me up this day." And [48:28] she's like, "Well, you know, he has to [48:30] drive down." I'm like, "From where?" [48:33] She's like, "Oh, Vermont." I was like, [48:35] "Oh." Like, "Yeah, 5 hours away." I'm [48:38] like, "Oh, so no, this date really has [48:39] to go well. Otherwise, this poor guy [48:40] just drove 5 hours for no reason. Turned [48:43] back around, make it 10." [48:45] >> So, we we went out, you know, we [48:47] [clears throat] did the classic hotel [48:48] lobby uh you know, talked for a few [48:52] hours and I got back and I was like, "Oh [48:55] my gosh, like I like this guy. This is [48:58] maybe [49:00] >> maybe for real. Like, she was on to [49:01] something here." Um, and I'm from such a [49:04] weird background. Like, I was convinced [49:06] that it was going to take me years and [49:07] years. I thought, you know, there's no [49:09] way that I'm going to find somebody [49:10] soon. My story is just too unique. And [49:14] it turns out he has like a unique [49:15] background. Not the same type of [49:17] background, but also unique background. [49:18] And we hit it off pretty immediately. I [49:22] think we both like secretly knew by date [49:24] two, but we're trying to be cool about [49:25] it. So, we're like, let's let's not [49:27] let's not act like we know. Um, and it [49:30] wasn't until, you know, I want to say [49:34] date like eight or something that we [49:36] were both like, "So, you know, [49:38] >> are [clears throat] we doing this? [49:39] >> Are we doing this or whatever?" And uh, [49:43] I [49:45] I remember we like driving back from a [49:47] date and we were kind of talking about [49:50] it and I was like, "So, like, we're [49:52] serious?" And he's like, "Yeah, like I'm [49:54] I'm serious." I was like, "Oh my gosh, [49:56] okay, amazing." [49:58] Um, and from there on, you know, I went [50:00] home and I called my Revit in and I [50:02] called uh the woman who set us up and I [50:04] was like, "This is for real, I think." [50:07] Um, [50:09] and from there, like we knew we were [50:12] getting engaged, but it took we had to [50:13] do a few things in between, a few weeks [50:15] of like preparation and meeting [50:17] different people. Um, our families like, [50:20] you know, he wanted to meet my parents, [50:22] I wanted to meet his parents. Um, that [50:24] went very well. I was so scared because [50:26] I'm like I'm introducing my parents who [50:28] like so secular [50:30] um to this guy with a beard and a [50:32] [laughter] jacket like how are they [50:34] going to react to this? So he like he [50:36] like wore his sweater and [laughter] was [50:38] a little uh tried to tone it down a [50:41] little and uh they ended up getting [50:44] along really well. Thank god I I was so [50:47] nervous about that. and he made like a [50:50] huge effort to connect to them on a [50:53] level that they were at. And they made a [50:55] huge effort to like meet him where he [50:56] was. And it ended up being incredible. [51:00] And then I met his family the next week [51:02] and they were just so warm and loving. [51:04] Like I could not be marrying into a [51:06] better family. I feel so lucky. And then [51:10] he proposed and we went to the hill and [51:14] here we are. We're getting married in a [51:16] few weeks. [51:17] >> Yeah. Literally. That's so nice. Do you [51:19] do you feel that like Hashem put you [51:21] through so much so that like at this [51:23] goof in your life he like okay this part [51:25] I'm going to make a little easier for [51:26] you smoother? [51:27] >> So before I had heard about him there [51:31] was somebody else that was suggested to [51:32] me and it was another one of those like [51:34] you can't talk until you finish the [51:35] conversion but you know we have this guy [51:37] lined up for you. And I that was [51:41] actually now that I'm thinking about it [51:42] that's actually when I called to ask [51:43] about the resume. Um, and [51:47] when I I called her, she was like, "You [51:50] know, you've been through so much. [51:54] You've worked so hard. Like, maybe this [51:56] is the braha you get. Like, maybe you're [51:58] going to immediately meet your husband." [52:01] And I was like, "Okay, well, we'll see." [52:03] Like, I was really not I was doubting it [52:05] big time. And that guy ended up I never [52:08] ended up meeting him. He decided he said [52:10] he didn't want to date a convert. So, [52:12] that like went out the window. [52:14] Um, and then the first date I go on, I [52:18] meet my husband. So, [52:20] >> wow. [52:20] >> She was right. But it it it did feel [52:23] like everything I worked through and [52:25] everything I went through, cuz [52:26] conversion is an incredibly lonely [52:28] process. Um, no matter how great your [52:31] community is, no matter how accepting [52:32] the people around you are, you're in a [52:34] community where you're different from [52:36] every single other person there. And [52:40] it's a big difference. It's an important [52:42] difference. and everyone's so proud to [52:43] be Jewish and then you're just on the [52:45] side kind of like you know oh I want to [52:47] be Jewish too you know and [52:51] I felt like I went through so many [52:54] difficulties with that and I had so much [52:56] trouble and to have it end up with [52:59] literally being so lucky that the first [53:01] guy I go out with you maybe a week after [53:04] my conversion is the man I'm marrying [53:06] like that's incredible. Yeah, it's a [53:08] tremendous braha, pun intended to cause [53:11] your name. [laughter] Um, what's what's [53:14] your advice for someone who's going [53:16] through it now and they're they're [53:18] struggling with their Jewish identity [53:20] and they're not sure necessarily where [53:22] they want to go or they don't they [53:24] don't, you know, baram now you could [53:26] look back and like see the full picture [53:28] and, you know, have that that mindset to [53:32] say, "Okay, it's going to work out." But [53:34] someone who's going through it and [53:35] they're not sure what's going to happen, [53:37] what advice would he give to them? [53:40] >> I would say [53:42] Hashem is going to guide you. Like you [53:47] you you maybe don't see him at every [53:49] step of the way, but he's there at every [53:50] step of the way. And [53:53] in the end, what's supposed to happen is [53:54] going to happen to you. You just have to [53:56] let go and let it happen. You have to [53:58] let yourself, one of the biggest things [54:00] I think you have to let yourself be [54:01] embarrassed, which is a really hard [54:02] thing to do, but you have to just be [54:04] like, I'm new here. I don't know what's [54:06] going on. I'm going to mess up. I'm [54:08] going to do something that's going to [54:09] feel really embarrassing probably in [54:10] Schul. And that's okay. It's part of it. [54:15] Um, like my first time I came into SH, I [54:17] remember I didn't know anything. I [54:18] didn't know what to do. They're like [54:19] reading so fast and [54:23] I was terrified. I embarrassed myself [54:24] horribly. Uh, a big one was when I [54:27] switched to like SNES clothing. I did [54:29] not know how to dress at all. Not that [54:30] I'm like a fashion person now, but I was [54:32] wearing the most ridiculous outfits. [54:34] [clears throat] Like [54:34] >> like you're looking like super hussyish. [54:36] >> I just looked insane. It's ridiculous. [54:39] Um, and all the things like they're [54:42] embarrassing, but they get you to the [54:44] end where you need to be. And you have [54:45] to just kind of embrace the fact that [54:47] you're not going to immediately be like [54:49] everybody else. You're not going to [54:50] immediately know everything. And that's [54:52] okay. You don't have to. Um, Hashem will [54:55] get you there. [54:56] >> What advice would you give to your [54:59] seven-year-old self? If you could talk [55:01] to your seven-year-old self now. [55:03] >> My seven-year-old self. [55:06] I think just that it's going to be okay. [55:07] Like, [clears throat] it's going to come [55:08] back. It felt like I was losing [55:10] something so big and I didn't lose it. I [55:13] never lost it. I just felt like I did. [55:15] >> I think that's really what I would say [55:16] is just like you're not really losing it [55:19] and you're never going to lose it. Um, [55:22] it's just a longer path than you think [55:24] it's going to be. [55:25] >> So, I found you on Tik Tok and I know [55:29] you're out there on social media. So, [55:31] for people who want to follow along your [55:32] journey and definitely if there's any [55:33] brands, definitely reach out to [55:35] Shashana. Okay. Where could they find [55:37] you? We'll link it down below. [55:38] >> So, I'm Jew [55:41] now. Um, I used to be Jew to be, so now [55:44] I'm Jew right now. Um, but I have I [55:49] actually found like a lot of community [55:50] through Tik Tok, which you don't think [55:52] like Tik Tok is where you're going to [55:53] learn about Judaism so much, but it [55:55] turns out there's a lot to learn on [55:56] there. And at different points when I [55:59] was feeling really lonely in my [56:00] conversion, it really helped me to have [56:02] a little bit of an online community. Um, [56:04] I ended up not doing TikTok for a while. [56:07] I got overwhelmed and I stopped doing [56:08] it. Um, then I started getting these [56:10] messages back that were like, "Oh, like [56:12] we really miss you or you inspired me to [56:13] do a mitzvah or something." And at some [56:15] point I was like, "Okay, I have to come [56:16] back and do this again. This is too [56:18] special." So yeah, I'm same handle on [56:20] Instagram and on Tik Tok. [56:22] >> Okay, we'll link both of them down [56:23] below. Raa, thank you so much for [56:25] sharing your story and giving [56:27] inspiration to the world. [56:30] >> Thank you. This was incredible. I really [56:32] appreciate the opportunity. [56:34] >> What an episode. If you're still [56:35] watching, I want to hear from you. Leave [56:37] the word wow in the comments so I know [56:39] that you watched it. But also know that [56:40] Shashana's story is special and she will [56:43] be looking in the comments. So leave [56:44] your kind words. Maybe a mazle to her [56:46] because she's getting married and Raas [56:48] was here and seems like a great guy. So [56:51] leave your well wishes and and let her [56:53] know that she's courageous and she's [56:55] awesome. Thanks again to this week's [56:56] sponsors, Felheim, Will Ciss, BF Design, [56:59] Kabad, and one month college. And here's [57:01] a lesson I'm taking from Shashana. Most [57:03] people spend their lives running from [57:05] her truths. She ran towards it and she [57:08] built a hole from life, a Jewish [music] [57:09] life, and she learned it was built on a [57:12] mistake and she didn't look away. She [57:14] tore it down and built it again, this [57:16] time on a rock. And I was thinking, this [57:18] is probably what real faith looks like. [57:20] It's not about never falling. It's not [57:22] never being wrong. It's having the guts [57:24] to start over when the truth demands it. [57:26] And it's something that I have to ask [57:27] myself, and you should be asking [57:29] yourself, what truth have you been [57:30] avoiding? Then do what Shashana did. And [57:33] if this episode moved you, share it with [57:34] someone who needs to hear it. Remember, [57:36] inspirations everywhere. [57:39] [music] Living
