Transcript [00:00] As I'm going to zip up the bag, all of [00:01] the sudden, I feel this huge shock wave [00:04] hit me. And I remember [music] trying to [00:05] lift my hands up to my face and the [00:08] shock wave was pulling my hands [music] [00:10] down and my body was being pulled back [00:12] against the seat. Uh, and I didn't think [00:14] it was a [music] terrorist attack. I [00:16] thought that we got into a bus accident [00:18] or that somebody hit me in the face with [00:19] something, but the last thing I thought [00:21] was that somebody boarded that bus [00:23] strapped with explosives to hurt and [00:24] murder innocent people. So when I say [00:26] that if I didn't take that window seat, [00:28] I wouldn't be here, it's because the [00:30] girl next to me and her boyfriend didn't [00:32] survive. The rose in front of me didn't [00:33] survive. [00:33] >> On the morning of 9/11, Sari Singer [00:35] overslept and she was just two blocks [00:37] from the World Trade Center. Months [00:38] later, she moved to Israel to help [00:40] terror victims. Then in June 2003, a [00:43] kamas bomber detonated on her Jerusalem [00:45] bus, murdering 17 people. She survived, [00:48] went back and totally transformed her [00:50] life. This episode is brought to you by [00:52] Woodman College, Wiliss Bipin and Kabad. [00:56] This episode is in loving memory of [00:57] Miriam Sarbasak of Mosha and Shimyakova. [01:00] Here we go. Sari, could you take us back [01:03] to your childhood, what it was like, and [01:06] we'll transition to how you got to where [01:08] you are right now. [01:09] >> Sure. Sure. I mean, I I really had a [01:11] really basic childhood. I grew up in [01:13] Lakewood, New Jersey. It was a very I [01:16] loved growing up there. Um, it was a [01:18] beautiful community. um small people [01:20] knew each other. You know, our doors [01:22] were always open, people were in and out [01:23] of each other's houses. The interesting [01:25] thing for me growing up and not that we [01:27] weren't we were involved in the [01:28] community and there was a lot going on [01:30] and um you know, we we were involved in [01:32] many different community organizations, [01:34] especially Federation and other things, [01:36] but the connection to Israel for me [01:38] growing up was was not where it is today [01:41] at all. And I think that that's [01:42] definitely a different time than than it [01:44] is today. But growing up, I didn't have [01:46] the strong connection to Israel. Um uh [01:49] we did stuff for Israel, we volunteered [01:51] and we did stuff in the community, but [01:52] it wasn't something that was on our [01:53] minds of anything like you know um it [01:55] wasn't a must of like we have to go [01:57] there. I didn't I I didn't visit Israel [01:59] as a kid. My first time in Israel was [02:01] when I went for my my year abroad for [02:03] seminary. Um but it wasn't something [02:05] that was like pushed in in our lives [02:07] that it was something really the most [02:09] important thing. It was a part of who we [02:11] are as Jews, but it wasn't something [02:13] that we grew up with in and out as much [02:15] as I see it in today's world. Um, and I [02:18] think for me that, you know, the [02:20] experience that I've had, you know, as [02:22] an adult have definitely, you know, [02:24] pushed me further into my feelings [02:26] towards Israel and how much I I I [02:28] realize the extent of, you know, that us [02:31] as Americans and and Israel, the [02:34] connection that we have with each other [02:35] that's so strong and that's that that [02:37] keeps us together and that is that can't [02:40] break us no matter what. um no matter [02:42] what's going on in the world, no matter [02:43] how much hate, no matter how much [02:44] anti-semitism, no matter anything that's [02:46] happening, I think that bond that we [02:48] have today with Israel, um at least for [02:50] me as a Jew and as and many people that [02:53] I, you know, that I interact with is [02:54] very very strong. So there's different [02:58] angles that we could go here is as we [03:00] could talk about you helping people uh [03:03] who've been through trauma and and [03:05] everything of the sort and then also [03:07] your own personal experience and uh kind [03:10] of I guess take us through the journey [03:12] of like what came first for you. [03:14] >> Sure. So just just for reference, so um [03:17] uh uh I I know I I I guess for reference [03:20] here on the on the morning of 9/11, [03:23] which I'm going to start from that point [03:24] because that really is the beginning of [03:26] the story for me. Um I worked downtown [03:28] about two blocks away from the World [03:30] Trade Center. Um my subway stop was a [03:33] block away on Recctor Street and that [03:35] morning I overslept and was not in my [03:38] office downtown. Uh, I ended up turning [03:40] on the television in my apartment, uh, [03:42] running to get to get ready for work [03:44] when I saw the first plane had hit the [03:46] tower. I immediately called the office. [03:48] I heard screaming in the background. [03:50] They said, "Uh, don't come down here. We [03:52] don't know what's happened. The building [03:53] shook. We're being evacuated." And [03:56] immediately after that, I called I [03:57] called my dad and he said, "Don't come [03:58] home." He said, "We don't know what's [04:00] going on. Maybe something could happen [04:02] on the George Washington Bridge or in [04:04] the tunnels. You want to stay where you [04:06] are and just be safe." And I didn't [04:08] leave my apartment for 3 days. I was [04:09] really, really traumatized by what we [04:11] were seeing on TV. I remember seeing the [04:13] pictures of people running from the [04:14] towers and seeing the chaos that was [04:17] right unfolding right in the city where [04:19] we lived. Yet I was 100 blocks away and [04:21] it felt like I was right there. Um, and [04:24] I really felt that, you know, I I didn't [04:26] know what to do and we couldn't go to [04:28] work for about a month. And when we did [04:30] get back to the office, our my subway [04:32] stop had been completely destroyed. So [04:34] we had to get off of Chambers Street, [04:35] which was about a 12m block walk. And I [04:37] remember walking down that first week [04:39] and as I would get closer to our office [04:41] by Wall Street, there were crowds and [04:43] crowds of people on a line like just [04:45] blocking the sidewalks. And after about [04:46] three or four days of trying to navigate [04:48] getting to the office, I tapped somebody [04:49] on the shoulder and I said to them, "You [04:51] know what's going on here? The last few [04:52] days I see all these people." And he [04:54] said, "Oh, well, we're here waiting to [04:56] take a picture of where the towers used [04:58] to stand." And I thought, "Down is a [05:00] mess. You can still smell the smells, [05:03] but not even that. There are pictures [05:04] hanging everywhere of the faces of [05:06] people that didn't come home that day [05:08] for their for their families. And you're [05:10] here as if it's like the Empire State [05:11] Building or the Statue of Liberty. And I [05:13] got really upset about it because I [05:15] thought like at a time where we were all [05:16] coming together, people are making as if [05:18] it's like a tourist site. And so I end [05:20] up talking to a few friends of mine and [05:21] in December of 2001, I quit my job and I [05:25] moved to Israel um to volunteer with [05:27] organizations that were working with [05:28] victims um from the second inifat. So, I [05:32] had gone to Israel running away from [05:33] what was happening in New York. I went [05:35] to Israel to volunteer and to do [05:37] something meaningful. Um, probably not [05:39] thinking it through fully um but knowing [05:41] that that's where I wanted to be. And I [05:43] ended up I end up leading a birthright [05:45] trip on the way for uh 30 uh 30 30 uh [05:48] college students. Loved it. And then I [05:50] settled into an apartment with a friend [05:52] of mine who had made aliyah uh prior to [05:54] that. Um and lived in Jerusalem and was [05:56] volunteering for the first 10 months. [05:58] And after the 10 months, my money was [06:01] running low and I called my parents to [06:03] ask them to send me money and they said [06:05] no. And so I booked a flight to come [06:07] back uh to the states. And I booked that [06:09] flight for November of 2002. Um and [06:12] about a week before the flight, a friend [06:14] of mine told me that a school that she [06:16] was working was looking for an [06:17] administrator and she wanted my resume. [06:19] And uh I ended up getting the position [06:20] and cancelceled my ticket. And I thought [06:22] if I'm canceling my ticket and staying, [06:24] I really want to feel like I'm not just [06:25] a tourist and not just here transitly. I [06:28] want to really feel like I'm living [06:29] here. And uh I would take two buses to [06:32] work in the morning. Um I lived in [06:34] Katamon, which is a very Anglo community [06:36] in in Jerusalem. Um but my office was in [06:39] Harnof. And so I would take two buses [06:41] there in the morning and two buses home. [06:43] Um and I loved living there. I loved [06:45] everything about being there. Um I [06:47] always said people would say to me, [06:48] "What do you miss about living in in in [06:50] Israel?" I would say nothing. I miss my [06:52] family. I miss some of my friends. But [06:54] everything I always felt like in Israel [06:56] that I had more hours in the day to do [06:58] more things. You know, I could work in [07:00] the school. I would work from 8 to 2 [07:01] every day and then I would go and [07:03] volunteer and and I was just felt like I [07:04] accomplished more in a day there. I felt [07:07] like somehow the hour stretched further [07:09] than they do here. And so I really loved [07:11] it was like my dream thing to be able to [07:13] volunteer more, to be able to have that [07:14] time. And because I was only working [07:16] sort of a part-time job, I was able to [07:18] give more um and to help the families, [07:20] just be there as an ear, just to help [07:22] with events, anything that I could do to [07:24] help the families, make it a little [07:25] easier for them. And I didn't understand [07:27] what they were going through, but I knew [07:28] that at least I was there to support [07:30] them, and that's what they needed. Um, [07:32] and then unfortunately, or I have to [07:34] say, through every bad situation, [07:36] there's a lot of good things that come [07:37] out of it. Um, you know, I ended up [07:41] understanding better than anyone what [07:42] those victims that I was working with [07:44] were going through. [07:45] >> Could you take me through that day and [07:48] what happened? [07:48] >> Sure. So, it's interesting. That day was [07:52] the it the classes had just ended for [07:54] the seminary. So, my students were [07:56] getting ready to go back to the States [07:57] that night and the next day. And so, I [08:00] didn't really need to be uh on campus um [08:03] because everyone was packing and getting [08:04] themselves together. So, I had made [08:05] meetings that entire day all over the [08:07] city and if anyone knows what Jerusalem [08:09] traffic is like. It's really difficult [08:11] and I rarely took cabs in Israel because [08:15] I couldn't afford it. I had I literally [08:17] was making what my brother liked to say. [08:19] I remember him saying that my salary in [08:21] Israel was below poverty level for [08:23] America. But I lived fine. I paid my [08:25] rent. I was able to go out with friends. [08:27] I was able to do all the things I wanted [08:28] to do. And so I I enjoyed that. I I [08:31] wasn't focused on how much money I was [08:32] making at the time. was focused on the [08:34] quality of life and the things and the [08:36] the relationships and the people that I [08:37] was around that were making me feel good [08:39] about myself and also just feeling like [08:41] I was living in a place where I belonged [08:43] and that that was definitely how I felt. [08:45] I felt like that I that this was all a [08:46] part of the plan and this is what I was [08:48] supposed to be doing. But that day [08:50] because first of all it was a gorgeous [08:51] day a lot like the morning of 9/11. The [08:53] sun was out. Um it was I remember that [08:56] the the sky was so blue and I had I had [08:59] these meetings all over the city. So I [09:01] decided to take cabs everywhere. Um and [09:03] I knew I had to have enough money on me [09:05] to get from place to place. So I had [09:06] really planned it out very well. And so [09:08] my first meeting was um was at Hebrew [09:11] University um that day and then I had a [09:13] meeting at Harotzim in the high-tech [09:15] area. Then I had a meeting in um right [09:17] by Ben Yehuda Street. And then my last [09:19] meeting of the day was in Gibbat Shaol [09:20] right outside Harnof. And I remember as [09:23] I finished that last meeting, it was [09:25] around 2 p.m. And that's usually the end [09:26] of my day. Um it was a very close friend [09:28] of mine who ran another seminary. And I [09:31] remember him saying to me, you know, [09:33] what are you going to do now? And I [09:34] said, well, I'm going to go to the [09:35] office and get some work done. He goes, [09:36] why? It's gorgeous. It's your last week [09:38] here before you go back home to your [09:39] family for the summer. Enjoy. Like get [09:42] And I said, I got to get the work done. [09:44] And so I ended up going back to the [09:45] office. And I remembered that I forgot [09:47] that I was meeting a friend for dinner [09:49] that night not far from my apartment in [09:50] the German colony um at a place called [09:52] Cafe Hillel. And I didn't know how to [09:55] get there from Hernov because I'd never [09:57] taken the bus to I usually took it to [09:59] Katamon. So I called my friend and I [10:01] said, "What bus can I take, you know, to [10:03] get to dinner?" And she said, "You can [10:05] catch the number 14. Uh you'll find it [10:07] right at the Takana at the at the bus [10:09] station. It'll take you right into [10:10] Emma." And so at around 4:00, I started [10:14] packing up. I took the number 11 bus uh [10:16] to the Takana. And as I got off, I could [10:20] not find the 14 bus stop. It wasn't as [10:21] easy to find as I thought it would be. [10:23] And I kept asking people for directions [10:24] and I kept being taken into circles. So [10:27] by the time I got to the 14 bus stop, it [10:30] was very crowded. Um it was rush hour. [10:33] It was close to 5:00 and the buses were [10:35] running late. And I don't know if anyone [10:37] knows what it's like to be at a bus stop [10:38] with Israelis at the end of the day, but [10:40] like as they say, you know, and so [10:42] basically you start to feed into that a [10:44] little bit as you live there longer. And [10:46] so I was really getting impatient. And [10:48] the one thing that I really hate is [10:50] being late. Um, I really like to be on [10:52] time or early. And so I was really upset [10:54] that I was running late here to meet a [10:55] friend for dinner. And so I decided, you [10:57] know what? I had no more cash on me. You [10:59] know, back then you couldn't use a [11:00] credit card in the cabs. I said, you [11:02] know what? I'll I'll hab. I'll stop at [11:05] the ATM when you enter Mck and I'll just [11:08] take out money to to pay the cab driver. [11:10] Um, and as I went to to make my way [11:12] through the people because there was a [11:14] lot of people at the bus stop, I I went [11:16] to hail the cab. And as I put my arm [11:18] out, I saw a cab, but right behind the [11:20] cab, I saw the 14 Olive bus. And so I [11:23] thought, okay, you know what? I have my [11:24] bus pass. It's my last week here. I'm [11:27] going to I'm not going to spend the [11:28] money on the on the cab. I'll just take [11:30] the bus. And I remember calling my [11:32] friend and telling her where I was and [11:33] that I'd be there shortly. And I boarded [11:35] the bus and it was packed and I was [11:37] exhausted. And I never really, it was [11:40] rare when I sat on the buses because [11:41] there was always somebody who got on who [11:43] was older or somebody pregnant. You [11:45] always wanted to try and give them space [11:47] if they needed a seat. But for some [11:48] reason on this day, I wish that there [11:50] was an open seat and there wasn't. So I [11:52] ended up going towards the the the back [11:54] door, which is, you know, is the middle [11:56] of the egg buses. And I stood holding [11:58] the pole and I just hung up for my [12:00] friend um as we started as we started [12:02] moving. Um and the next bus stop was [12:04] Makhuda. So, as we approached Makay [12:07] Yehuda, as you know, first of all, [12:08] there's not just one bus stop there. [12:10] There's a few buses in each of the [12:12] places. And there were hundreds of [12:14] people coming from the end of the day [12:15] were picking up groceries to go home. [12:17] And so, as we got to this bus stop, and [12:19] the bus stop, I saw these two women get [12:22] up out of the last two seats in the [12:24] front section on the right side. And [12:26] normally, I thought, first of all, I [12:28] thought I'm definitely sitting down [12:29] because the bus is about to get really, [12:30] really packed. Normally, I would have [12:32] sat at the aisle seat knowing that if [12:34] somebody would have gotten on that was [12:35] older with packages, I would have wanted [12:37] to get up for them. But for some reason, [12:39] I don't know why, I ended up sitting [12:41] down and moving into next to the window. [12:44] And then I remember the girl who sat [12:45] down next to me and her boyfriend who [12:47] was standing holding on to the pole. Um, [12:49] and I didn't think anything of it [12:51] because at this point, um, it was June [12:53] 2003. There was a 10-day ceasefire with [12:55] Hamas. So, there was no even thought in [12:58] my head that something was going to [12:59] happen. I remember looking outside for a [13:02] split second and I saw a lot of people [13:04] outside and I know the bus driver at [13:06] some point like shut the doors on people [13:08] because it was just getting too packed [13:09] and too many people on the bus. It was [13:11] people were really packed in like [13:12] sardines. [13:13] >> Um and back then my cell phone was this [13:16] like big it was it was heavy. It wasn't [13:18] like a small thing we have today. And so [13:19] I ended up bending down as we started [13:22] moving. I remember putting my head [13:23] against the seat and my knapsack was on [13:26] the floor. And again, there were certain [13:27] things that day that happened that I [13:29] didn't do previously that I did on this [13:31] day that just didn't make sense. Um, and [13:33] sometimes things I don't even talk [13:35] about. Like for example, I took off a [13:37] bracelet that was my grandmother's that [13:38] I wore every day. I don't know why I [13:40] took it off this day. Um, it's a [13:43] hundred-year-old bracelet that I put on [13:46] this bracelet that I bought when I was [13:48] running a summer program for high school [13:50] kids in the Ukraine and we stopped in [13:52] Kiev and I bought a bracelet at the at [13:54] the shook there and I put on like this [13:56] $6 bracelet and took off the like this [13:59] like heirloom piece and I also took off [14:01] a necklace that my father my mom and my [14:03] dad had gotten me for graduation from [14:05] high school and I put on like some sort [14:06] of like like a nothing necklace not even [14:10] knowing why I took those things off but [14:12] but my but like things that like were [14:14] irreplaceable that broke when things [14:17] happen on the bus. And so these little [14:19] things that I did earlier in the day and [14:21] even like moving in and sitting next to [14:23] the window which I also rarely did was [14:26] something that I know saved my life. And [14:27] so as I'm bending down and putting [14:29] dropping my phone into my knapsack and I [14:31] remember looking in my knapsack down and [14:33] seeing my purse there and putting my [14:35] phone in and zipping up my bag and as [14:38] I'm going to zip up the bag, all of the [14:39] sudden I feel this huge shock wave hit [14:42] me. And the only way to explain to you [14:44] what the shock wave feels like, it's [14:46] like two pieces of metal that hit so [14:48] hard against each other and vibrate [14:50] back. That's what I remember my body [14:52] feeling like. And I remember trying to [14:54] lift my hands up to my face and the [14:56] shock wave was pulling my hands down and [14:59] my body was being pulled back against [15:01] the seat. Uh, and I didn't think it was [15:03] a terrorist attack. I thought that we [15:05] got into a bus accident or that somebody [15:07] hit me in the face with something. But [15:09] the last thing I thought was that [15:10] somebody boarded that bus strapped with [15:12] explosives to hurt and murder innocent [15:14] people. And when the blast stopped, um, [15:18] I couldn't open my left eye at all [15:20] because it had already been swollen shut [15:22] because I was looking down. My eyes [15:24] instinctively shut, um, when that shock [15:27] wave hit. So, something had hit my left [15:29] um, my left eye over here, and so it had [15:32] already been um, the I [clears throat] [15:34] guess I don't know how to explain it, [15:35] but basically, this whole part was [15:36] completely swollen over my eye. And then [15:38] my right eye I could barely open just [15:41] enough to see the roof of the bus had [15:42] fallen in and the man's head in front of [15:44] me and he wasn't moving. And for a split [15:47] second after the blast stops, there's [15:50] this split second of silence. And I [15:53] always say it's not like the silence [15:54] that you hear in the summertime at night [15:56] when the crickets are out or like you [15:58] like you're literally hearing that like [16:00] it's a deafening silence. It's the [16:02] silence of death all around you. And [16:05] it's a split second, but it feels like [16:07] so much longer. And after that silence, [16:10] my ears started ringing really loud and [16:12] I started screaming. And luckily, I was [16:14] screaming because there was a guy [16:15] outside. I [snorts] found out that he [16:17] had been three blocks away. He heard the [16:20] blast. He didn't know what it was. And [16:21] he came running. Because in Israel, it [16:23] doesn't matter if you're the police or [16:25] my dome. Everybody comes running to help [16:28] because this is the essence I feel of [16:30] who we are as the Jewish people that [16:32] when something bad is happening, the [16:34] first instinct is how do we help and [16:36] what do we do? This guy didn't know what [16:37] it was. He heard the blast. [16:39] >> He came running towards the burning bus. [16:41] He heard me screaming [16:43] >> and he yelled to me that I had to get [16:45] out and I told him I couldn't. Um and he [16:47] said to me, "You have to." And he said, [16:49] "Move your feet over to the window." I [16:52] thought it was the window of the bus, [16:53] but he said, "Move your feet." And I [16:54] think he said I could it was hard to [16:56] hear him but I think he said move your [16:57] feet to the bar. Um and I thought it was [16:59] the window of the bar. Um and he and [17:02] another man came and pulled me right [17:04] outside of this little like triangle. [17:06] I'm not even sure how I got out of it. [17:07] Um and uh and it was really the bottom [17:11] of the bus that had been blown out from [17:12] the impact of the bus. It wasn't even [17:14] the window. Um and they brought me to [17:15] the side of the road where this old [17:16] woman waited with me asked me questions [17:18] my name where I was from um to try and [17:21] keep me awake. And the funny thing about [17:23] that is is the one thing that my dad I [17:25] remember telling me when he first saw me [17:26] is that he had met the woman cuz I [17:28] didn't meet her but he had met her and [17:30] he said that this woman that the woman [17:32] told him that the that I kept saying my [17:35] parents are going to kill me. They're [17:36] going to kill me. They're going to make [17:37] me come back from Israel. Like that was [17:38] the first thing I was thinking of when [17:40] this all happened. Um and she waited [17:42] with me as if she were a mother waiting [17:43] for her child to get help. And for me [17:46] the experience was very very quick. For [17:48] some victims it feels like forever until [17:49] help is going to arrive. Um I was [17:52] immediately taken into into the [17:54] ambulance um and taken to Adasa and [17:56] Karum. I remember at that point and I [17:58] don't want to go on you. Did you [18:00] understand what happened or [18:01] >> No, I don't even think I understood. I [18:02] didn't even know I couldn't even fathom [18:04] what the injuries were, which is why [18:05] when I say I didn't know how I got out [18:07] of the bus is because um shrapnel had [18:09] gone through my left shoulder breaking [18:11] my clavicle bone and probably with the [18:13] adrenaline and the and the trauma, the [18:15] doctor said that I probably didn't feel [18:17] it, but I I was able to put my hands up [18:20] over to be pulled out of this. Like I I [18:22] couldn't be pulled out with my arms [18:23] down. They had to like maneuver me. So, [18:25] I remember feeling like my my arms were [18:28] up a little bit and the doctor said you [18:29] probably were able to do that because [18:30] you just weren't feeling you couldn't [18:32] feel anything. It was such shock and [18:33] trauma and that adrenaline going, but [18:35] that I really had a broker was [18:37] completely I mean, my clavicle bone was [18:40] broken, the shrapna went in and through. [18:42] So, it went all the way out. At the [18:43] time, I had no idea what was what was [18:45] going on. I didn't even feel that [18:47] anything had hit me there. Um, and the [18:48] ambulance when she told me, I said to [18:50] her, I said, "I think something might be [18:51] wrong here." She's like, "No, no, you're [18:52] fine." But I wasn't really sure what was [18:54] going on. Um, for me it it was still [18:57] surreal like I had no I had no capacity [18:59] to think I didn't think it was a [19:00] terrorist attack. I thought I really [19:02] thought somebody hit me with something [19:03] and I was in an accident. Um, I think [19:05] the point where I realized where I [19:07] really realized it was after a [snorts] [19:09] few hours before I went into surgery in [19:10] the hospital of like the magnitude of [19:12] what really happened when people started [19:13] coming that I knew but I had no idea and [19:16] I don't think I I can't you know again [19:17] everyone has their own experience but I [19:19] don't think anyone once it happens [19:21] initially you think it's a terrorist [19:23] attack. you you you just don't think [19:25] that that could happen to you. It's not [19:26] it was something so far from anything [19:28] that I thought could happen. Even though [19:30] I was living in a place where there were [19:31] terrorist attacks every single day and [19:33] every week throughout the country, it [19:34] wasn't something that I thought was [19:35] going to happen to me. I really thought [19:37] that I was going to be okay. I was very [19:38] careful of the time. I you know I I you [19:41] become aware of things around you when [19:43] you live in Israel and you're more in [19:44] tune to it than when you're living here [19:46] because that's the nature of of how you [19:48] live there. So I was very in tune with [19:50] things around. If I saw something [19:51] uncomfortable or something strange, I [19:53] would get off a bus. You know, I never [19:54] stayed where I felt like something was [19:56] off. But I would never have anticipated [19:58] or even thought and even when I when I [20:00] entered the hospital, um um I didn't [20:02] even think I was like I couldn't [20:04] understand what was going on. It took a [20:05] it took a while for me to actually [20:07] comprehend what was happening and also [20:09] to understand the severity of my [20:10] injuries. Um I was um when I was brought [20:14] into DASA, um Dr. Dr. Avi Riiffken who [20:16] was a head of trauma at that time um [20:18] assessed my injuries and I was the last [20:20] of the seriously wounded to go into [20:22] surgery that night. So I had shrapnel [20:24] that went through my left shoulder [20:25] breaking my clavicle bone. Uh both my [20:28] eardrums were blown from the impact of [20:29] the blast. Um my hair was burned, my [20:32] face was burned and bruised. My legs [20:34] were badly cut up. They thought probably [20:36] from metal from the bus. I have shrapnel [20:38] in my mouth that's inoperable. And [20:39] that's lucky cuz on that day over a [20:42] hundred of us were injured on and off [20:43] the bus. and 17 innocent people were [20:46] murdered, including everyone seated and [20:48] standing around me. So, when I say that [20:49] if I didn't take that window seat, I [20:51] wouldn't be here, it's because the girl [20:53] next to me and her boyfriend didn't [20:54] survive. The rose in front of me didn't [20:56] survive. They approximated the terrorist [20:59] was two people away from me, which would [21:00] mean that he was standing next to the [21:01] boyfriend just from the impact of the [21:04] blast and and and the people around me. [21:06] But I realized very quickly um in the [21:09] hospital that um my time wasn't up and [21:13] that there were obviously more for me to [21:14] do cuz there's no other rhyme or reason [21:16] why I'm here and the people around me [21:18] didn't survive. Um and that for me is a [21:21] a responsibility that I take very [21:23] seriously. [21:23] >> A very powerful moment is coming up. But [21:26] on a lighter note, if you are trying to [21:28] decide on your career or thinking about [21:30] getting a college degree, don't miss [21:32] this. Woodman College is having an [21:33] online openhouse and it's starting [21:35] Monday. This is your chance to spend 30 [21:37] minutes at an online event and get real [21:39] clarity about what you want to do for a [21:41] living. The online openhouse includes [21:43] sessions on careers in technology, [21:45] education, business, accounting, [21:47] psychology, and healthcare. You will [21:49] hear from experts in each field and [21:51] learn how AI is changing the jobcape and [21:53] what you should do about it. And if [21:55] you're confused and don't know what [21:57] field you want to go into, there is a [21:59] special session with an experienced [22:00] career counselor to help you figure it [22:03] out, just go to woodmancol.edu/openhouse [22:07] to sign up. It is free and the link is [22:09] in our show notes. And you may want to [22:11] hurry because this is happening from [22:12] October 19th through October 22nd [22:15] starting this Monday. 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First of all, in [23:40] the hospital itself right after, and I [23:42] think this is something that people [23:43] don't always hear about, but um the [23:45] Jewish people, what we see on the news [23:47] and what the reality sometimes are are [23:49] very different. And I always say like [23:52] the stories that you don't hear about [23:53] are some of the most amazing things [23:55] about the people of Israel. I was in the [23:57] hospital at that time. There wasn't um [23:59] the trauma unit in Hadassa. So they had [24:01] just beds and curtains for everybody [24:03] that was injured. And I remember waiting [24:04] by myself because I told the doctors and [24:06] nurses I didn't want them to call my [24:08] parents cuz I knew this was their worst [24:10] nightmare and I didn't want them hearing [24:12] from somebody who didn't know what I [24:13] looked like before the attack. So I told [24:15] them I didn't want them calling. Um it [24:17] ended up that uh Barbara Sofur who works [24:19] for Hadas International, she ended up [24:21] finding me in the hospital and as she [24:23] and there's always a running joke with [24:25] her and I that she found me because um [24:27] they saw my feet at the end of the [24:29] gurnie and and I I must have had a [24:31] pedicure and they saw nail polish and [24:33] they're like that's definitely an [24:34] American and that's like a big joke. But [24:36] she she later came over and called my [24:38] dad to let him know that I was okay and [24:40] and I could not believe that that was [24:42] happening. that I don't know even [24:44] remember even fighting with her about at [24:46] that point. But while I was waiting by [24:48] myself before anybody came at right [24:50] after I was assessed, I was literally [24:52] alone with nobody around. I couldn't [24:54] hear anything. My ears were ringing [24:55] really badly. And this Tani woman comes [24:58] in and she says, "My son was a soldier [25:01] on the bus. He remember getting on the [25:03] bus with an American girl who was [25:05] talking on her cell phone and he's a few [25:07] beds down and he's injured and he said [25:08] to his mother, "Go check on her. Maybe [25:10] she doesn't have any family." M [25:12] >> and I thought, here's a kid. He's maybe [25:14] 19 or 20 years old, doesn't know me, [25:17] never had a conversation with me. He's [25:19] injured himself, and he's sending his [25:21] mother to check in on me. And this was a [25:22] scenario for the next hour. Another man [25:24] come in and said, "My daughter was on [25:26] the bus. She was seated behind the bus [25:27] driver. She's in surgery right now. If [25:30] she were by herself, I'd want someone to [25:31] check in on her. I speak English. What [25:33] can I do for you?" And I thought in this [25:35] most horrific time where this was the [25:37] most horrific thing that ever happened [25:38] to me where I'm hurt and injured and by [25:42] myself where I think I have no family [25:44] around me that existed. I had all this [25:46] family that was taking care of me that I [25:47] didn't even know about. And I think [25:48] that's really the essence of who we are. [25:50] That it doesn't they didn't know who I [25:52] was. They didn't know where I was from. [25:53] They didn't know anything about me. They [25:54] just saw I was injured and they wanted [25:56] to check in to see if I was okay. And [25:58] and I never got to thank them because [26:00] for me that was the most comforting [26:02] thing right after something like that. [26:03] there was somebody around that spoke [26:04] English, that could talk to me, that [26:06] could say something to make me, you [26:08] know, be okay. And even though they [26:09] probably don't even realize the impact [26:11] that they had, that was something that [26:12] was really amazing for me before my [26:14] friends and and and people arrived that [26:16] I knew. And I and I always remember that [26:18] that like no matter what happens, no [26:20] matter what difficulties you see in the [26:21] media or the news, that the essence of [26:23] the people of Israel is that they care [26:25] and that they're there to help everybody [26:27] and anybody, no matter who they are. And [26:29] that was my experience that they were [26:30] there for me during the most difficult [26:32] time that I'd ever been through in my [26:34] life. Um, and as I waited I waited to go [26:36] into surgery and this is kind of the [26:38] funny thing of of everything. Um, my [26:40] mother was so nicely said the one thing [26:42] that didn't stop working after the [26:43] attack was my mouth. Um, and a reporter [26:46] came in from an American paper and said, [26:48] "Can I ask a few questions?" Um and my [26:50] boss at the time from the seminary had [26:52] come to the hospital already and she was [26:54] standing there and so he asked me a few [26:56] questions about the attack and um and [26:58] after that and I you know I I had said [27:01] something about about President Bush and [27:02] he had just put a peace plan on the [27:04] table and this attack was Kamas's you [27:06] know retaliation saying that they didn't [27:08] want the the plan and right after that [27:10] my boss pulled the reporter aside and [27:12] said by the way her father is a [27:13] Republican New Jersey state senator and [27:15] basically my life turned into an open [27:17] book and the media went crazy after this [27:19] and the hospital needed to really do [27:21] some control cuz nobody knew like I [27:24] didn't tell anybody. Most of my friends [27:26] that I had in Israel didn't know that my [27:27] father was a politician. It's not [27:29] something that I really talk about and [27:30] at that age you don't really talk about [27:31] what your parents do for a living. So [27:33] once that happened, a lot of the media [27:35] wanted to talk and I was about to go [27:37] into surgery that night right after [27:38] this. And so I got out of I went in [27:40] around 11:30 and I got it around um 2:30 [27:43] in the morning. A very close family [27:45] friend was there um who came um to the [27:48] hospital when she heard that I I had [27:50] been injured and called my mom um and [27:53] was on the phone with her letting her [27:54] know I was okay, that she was seeing me [27:55] after surgery. My father and my brother [27:57] were on their in route um on a flight [27:59] from New York. Uh at the time um the [28:02] governor of New Jersey gave my dad his [28:04] helicopter to fly him over to JFK and my [28:07] dad had has done over the years a lot of [28:08] work for High Lifeline and they helped [28:10] to facilitate a ticket really quickly [28:12] for him to get on the the immediate [28:14] flight which we were grateful for and so [28:16] as they were in route my mom's passport [28:18] was expired so she couldn't get on the [28:19] flight. So um this family friend called [28:22] her from the hospital to just let her [28:24] know that she's with me and that she's [28:25] in the recovery room with me and that I [28:27] was okay. And so, you know, that for me [28:29] was also really important that my I [28:31] think I was more worried about family [28:32] members and friends and how other people [28:33] were going to react than my own feelings [28:36] of what I was going through, [28:37] >> which which kind of makes sense cuz like [28:39] when you're on the outside and you and [28:41] anytime [snorts] you hear attack in [28:42] Israel, not knowing and then you look at [28:44] the news and like it's it's it's just [28:46] very scary. Oh, yeah. So, I can imagine [28:48] your parents were freaking out. [28:50] >> My mom says her worst nightmare. She had [28:51] the news on 24/7 to see and every time [28:53] there'd be an attack in Israel, even if [28:55] it wasn't near me, she'd call me and [28:56] say, "Where are you?" and I'd be like, I [28:57] don't even hear about anything yet. [28:58] You're hearing about it and I haven't [29:00] heard about it yet. U but that was just [29:02] the the way things were living at that [29:04] time where the attacks were rampant and [29:06] and and these attacks and my attack w [29:08] was carried out by kamas. Um and the the [29:11] terrorist on my bus was an 18-year-old [29:13] kid. He was the eighth kid that year [29:15] that had been recruited from the [29:16] Palestinian soccer team to carry attacks [29:19] against innocent civilians in Israel. [29:21] Um, and you know, at the end of the day, [29:24] the ends don't justify the means because [29:25] anything he wanted to do didn't [29:26] accomplish anything except making [29:29] hurting and murdering innocent people [29:32] and leaving hundreds of people with [29:34] trauma that to me is lifelong um to [29:37] navigate. [29:39] >> Do you remember like the first time [29:41] seeing your father, your brother, what [29:43] that was like? So the hospital had ended [29:46] up the next morning doing a press [29:48] conference with about 30 international [29:50] television stations for me. Um I agreed [29:53] to do it. Normally I probably wouldn't [29:54] have agreed to do it. I think the [29:56] circumstance of being in Israel and [29:58] wanting to help and and help Israel in [30:01] terms of some of the things I'd seen on [30:03] the news wanted to be that voice for [30:05] them. But my I did have stipulations. I [30:07] said that, you know, I I didn't want to [30:09] be in bed. I wanted to be sitting up. [30:11] Um, and I didn't want and I wanted to [30:12] have like a a covering over me. I didn't [30:14] want people to see my injuries. Um, and [30:16] that I was pretty specific about. So, I [30:19] did have a blanket on top of me and I [30:21] and I had a a colleague from work who [30:23] was sitting next to me during the [30:24] interview and I remember her telling me [30:26] um she said to me, "If you want to stop [30:28] at any point, just squeeze my hand." Cuz [30:30] her hand was on my hand under the [30:32] blanket. And she was like, "Just squeeze [30:34] my hand and we'll get everyone out." Um, [30:37] so I don't remember the interview too [30:38] much. I think I was probably very [30:40] overwhelmed um by what was going on in [30:42] the room, but I I vaguely remember right [30:46] after the interview them clearing it out [30:47] because my dad and my brother had just [30:49] arrived. And then I know my dad asked [30:51] for some alone time for us and you know [30:53] we talked a little bit and I got back [30:55] into bed and you know there there was [30:57] definitely medical stuff still going on [30:58] because it was just the day after. So [31:00] there were lots of things that were [31:01] still unknown in terms of like my [31:03] hearing and you know um um the the only [31:06] thing they really took care of right [31:07] away was really the the the most severe [31:09] which was the the shoulder injury making [31:12] sure because at that time during the [31:13] second inifatada you know the terrorists [31:15] wanted to have maximum impact. So they [31:17] wouldn't only strap a a bomb to [31:19] themselves they would take nuts and [31:21] bolts and they would glue it onto the [31:22] bomb. So that way if the bomb didn't [31:24] kill you hopefully whatever was was [31:26] glued to it would go out and be able to [31:28] kill people. and one of the nuts or the [31:30] bolts had gone through my shoulder. So, [31:32] but but to even make more of a it's [31:34] horrific to even think that people think [31:36] this way, but they would even I don't [31:38] know if you know this, but they would [31:39] take some of those nuts and bolts [31:41] sometimes and dip them in rat poisoning [31:43] so that way they could have maximum [31:44] impact. So, there's a there's a window [31:46] of you have to get into surgery within a [31:48] certain amount of hours so they can [31:49] determine and make sure that you that [31:50] there's no poison. So, I I think I had [31:52] like five or 6 hours that I that they [31:54] could wait for me to go into surgery, [31:56] but that was the point of going in to [31:57] clean out the wound, to make sure that [31:59] there was no poison in my system, and to [32:01] really make sure I was okay. Um, and so, [32:04] you know, that that there were other [32:06] tests that needed to be run, you know, [32:07] just other injuries that internal [32:09] injuries that they weren't sure of. Um, [32:11] and so I remember my dad and my brother [32:13] leaving because they shouldn't sit in [32:15] the hospital room with me the whole [32:16] time. And I always say they my brother [32:18] probably had the best trip to Israel at [32:20] that point because it was his first [32:22] trip. Um but seeing the country in a [32:24] different way, you know, they went to [32:25] the Knesset um and uh and met with uh [32:29] Knesset members. Um they got a a tour of [32:32] the old city from Reb Nevansal at the [32:34] time which was really huge and like you [32:36] know they had a private a private [32:39] concert with Haim Do in the old city. [32:40] Like things that like you know I was [32:42] like oh wow. I'm like I would have liked [32:43] to do those things too. [laughter] They [32:44] had a really great trip, but I didn't [32:46] want them sitting in my hospital room [32:47] the whole time. I I didn't think that [32:48] was something. I know my dad went back [32:50] to the site of where the attack took [32:52] place a few days later and they said, [32:54] you know, in Israel everything gets [32:55] cleaned up very quickly and you would [32:57] have never known there was a terrorist [32:58] attack there by the time he got back to [33:00] the site. Um, and he said it was really [33:03] meaningful to be there. Um, and again, [33:05] you know, we spent Shabbat in the [33:07] hospital and um, and I remember I was on [33:11] the orthopedic ward of the hospital and [33:14] my on the side of the hospital I was on, [33:16] I was the only Jew. All the rest were [33:18] like Arab-Israelis and Drews and [33:20] everything and they would come into our [33:21] room all Shabbat wanting to talk to my [33:23] dad and stuff that I remember. I [33:24] remember the the influx of people coming [33:26] into to visit. I remember people that [33:28] were visiting Israel, Americans that [33:30] were there on trips coming into the [33:32] hospital to visit and wanting to do well [33:34] wishes. And I never turned anyone away [33:35] from coming to visit because I felt like [33:37] if people were taking the time to visit [33:38] me, I wanted to, you know, I didn't want [33:40] to turn anyone away. But it was [33:42] definitely a hard time. I think, you [33:44] know, um I was in the hospital for [33:45] almost 2 weeks. Um and I really, you [33:49] know, I struggled with the fact of of [33:52] navigating things because I had a I I [33:54] had, you know, I couldn't do things [33:55] myself. So once I was released from the [33:57] hospital, I had to have a nurse come [33:59] every day and help me, you know, to [34:01] shower and change and and change my, you [34:03] know, the dressings and everything. And [34:05] I think for me as a self-sufficient [34:06] person, it was really hard to have other [34:08] people doing things for me at that time. [34:10] But I remember my dad saying that he [34:12] wanted me to that he was going to book [34:14] the flight back. And I said I didn't [34:16] want to return with him. Um, I was [34:18] adamant that I was coming back to Israel [34:19] in September. I was this attack was in [34:21] June of 2003. I wanted to come back in [34:24] September and go back to the States to [34:26] recuperate for the summer. And so I [34:28] didn't want to be afraid to come back. [34:29] And I knew from working with victims [34:31] now, even more so after the attack, the [34:33] stories that they told me about about [34:35] their attacks now really resonated [34:37] differently because I understood the [34:39] things that they shared. And so I didn't [34:40] want to be afraid to come back to the [34:42] places where I frequented every day. Now [34:44] I couldn't get back on a bus. Um I [34:46] remember in the hospital and it's [34:48] interesting because the the care is [34:50] excellent. um the social workers, the [34:52] trauma experts coming in and checking me [34:55] um where I am psychologically. And I [34:57] remember them saying to me, "If you [34:58] want, we can put you back on a bus in [35:01] Jerusalem by yourself." And I thought to [35:03] myself, I would never ever be on a bus [35:06] by myself normally. How is it going to [35:08] help me to for you to put me on a bus [35:10] where there's no other people on the bus [35:11] with me? Just going around the city, you [35:14] know, making like that would help. So, I [35:15] I declined that, but I did want to make [35:17] sure that I was I would feel okay coming [35:19] back. And so I was allowed out for about [35:21] an hour a day. I stayed on an extra 5 [35:23] days. So those extra 5 days I would go [35:25] out every day somewhere else. So one day [35:27] I went out to the Tiko house for lunch [35:29] with two of my friends. Another day I [35:31] went to Maka Mallal with a friend. And [35:33] the last day um I went to the site of [35:35] where the attack took place. I didn't [35:37] want to be afraid to walk. The attack [35:38] happened right at the top of Yafo. I [35:40] don't be afraid to go on Ben Yehuda or [35:42] any of the streets or the cafes or any [35:43] of the things that I did previously. So [35:45] I ended up going to the site where the [35:47] attack took place and walking from the [35:49] top of Yapo um down King George to where [35:52] the where the bus would have taken its [35:53] route. So that way I knew I knew that I [35:56] could feel okay there. We said some to [35:57] Hillm, you know, right where where we [35:59] where the attack took place. And then [36:01] that night I boarded a flight back to [36:02] the US. Um and during that time here, I [36:06] ended up speaking in DC um to [36:09] congressional leaders. I spoke here in [36:11] the in New York to um city council [36:13] members about how we can make sure that [36:15] New York is safer from terrorism and [36:17] really just trying to use my story and [36:20] what happened to me to be able to help [36:22] to protect um this country and really [36:25] everyone in the world from terrorism. Um [36:27] and then on September 3rd, I boarded a [36:29] flight back to Israel. [36:30] >> Was that a big fight with your parents? [36:32] Cuz I could understand [laughter] their [36:34] perspective of being like [36:35] >> we didn't want something bad to happen. [36:37] you think that happened and now you're [36:38] [clears throat] going back. [laughter] [36:40] >> So, it's interesting. You know, I [36:41] remember coming back I think after the [36:44] first um month back I end up speaking in [36:47] our shaw and I remember my dad [36:48] introduced me and he said that you know [36:51] the child of mine who hated politics was [36:54] suddenly thrown into it. Um and I really [36:56] grew up hating politics. Um I didn't [36:58] like I'm I think for me I'm very [37:01] straight, you know, like I'm very [37:03] honest. what you see is what you get. [37:05] And I don't like the underhandness of [37:07] sometimes of politics and how it works [37:09] and the idea that sometimes, you know, a [37:12] politician has to vote in a certain way [37:14] because that's what their constituents [37:16] want even if that's not what they [37:18] believe. You really have to do what your [37:19] constituents want you to do. And for me, [37:21] that's really hard to understand going [37:22] against your own beliefs um for what [37:24] other people for what other people want. [37:26] So I think for me always politics was [37:28] that like you know idea of like okay you [37:30] have to do whatever you need to do but I [37:32] didn't enjoy the limelight. I didn't [37:34] enjoy you know seeing everything that I [37:36] saw in the background. And so I I always [37:37] shied away from it. I even you know I [37:39] went towards the nonprofit sector on [37:40] purpose. Um and so once this all [37:43] happened he said but he he said this. He [37:45] said I think that Hashem chose the right [37:47] person um to be able to to represent and [37:50] to talk about these things um about [37:52] Israel and about what needs to be done. [37:53] And I remember sharing my story um in [37:55] Shul and and and you know I keep that in [37:58] mind that I don't there's no rhyme or [37:59] reason why I'm here and the people [38:01] around me are not. I only have to [38:03] believe that you know that I'm doing [38:05] what I'm supposed to be doing for [38:06] however much long of the time I have [38:08] here and that what I'm doing hopefully [38:10] is not just sharing my story but it's [38:13] their story as well and that they will [38:15] always be remembered because of the fact [38:18] that I'm sharing. And there was one [38:19] American on my bus that was killed. Um, [38:22] Alan Beer, originally from Cleveland, [38:23] Ohio. Um, and as you talked about and [38:26] you asked me about survivors guilt, and [38:28] I'm getting to that now. Um, I didn't [38:30] feel it because I didn't know anyone on [38:32] the bus initially, but I but the the [38:35] ways that I connected to Allen's family [38:37] initially when I first came back here, I [38:39] think it was in the first year I I came [38:40] back to the States, I did call Allen's [38:42] family um and and his brother picked up [38:45] the phone and I started talking and I [38:47] and I think that they couldn't [38:50] understand what I was saying and and I [38:52] sort of got hung up on and I didn't [38:54] blame anybody. I didn't take it [38:55] personally. I thought, you know, here's [38:56] a family who lost a loved one and I'm [38:59] somebody who survived that attack and [39:00] I'm calling them. Like, how did I even [39:02] think that I was dealing with it that [39:03] way? Like maybe in my head I thought [39:05] like, you know, was that insensitive of [39:07] me that I called that way? Because I [39:09] wanted the connection and you know, [39:11] maybe it's not about me. Um, and I have [39:13] a lot of friends in Cleveland and I was [39:15] visiting Cleveland um for a week and I [39:17] was by friends of mine. Um, and the [39:19] neighbor next door was was there Friday [39:21] night for dinner. And my friend said to [39:23] her that I was in I was in the bus [39:25] bombing that Alan Beer was killed in. [39:28] And she said, "I'm really close with um [39:30] with with the brother and sister-in-law. [39:32] Let me talk to them." And she came back [39:34] Shabbat morning. And she said to me, "Go [39:36] over this afternoon and meet them." And [39:38] so I went over to the house. Um I was [39:40] very nervous um because of my first [39:42] interaction. But when I walked in the [39:44] house, Allen's mother, who was in her [39:46] 80s, was in a wheelchair sitting there [39:48] at the time. She's since passed and she [39:50] was holding this big um painted picture [39:53] of Allen in her in her arms. And the [39:56] picture I could see Allan facing me. And [39:58] I walk in the door and she says, "Sary, [40:00] I'm so glad that you're alive." And I [40:02] just lost it. Like I just thought like [40:04] that was where I think I experienced [40:05] survivors guilt thinking that here's [40:07] this family and I'm here and their son [40:11] isn't and their brother isn't and how [40:13] are they dealing with it and you know [40:15] what could I offer them? What kind of [40:17] you know support or what could I say to [40:19] them that could ever you know give them [40:22] any type of comfort from what they've [40:24] been through. But since that time, I [40:26] mean, I be I become really close with [40:28] the family and I'm in touch with a lot [40:29] of the family members and um uh Allan's [40:34] nephew um and and his wife are very very [40:37] close friends of mine um that live in [40:39] Jersey. And I'm in touch with Allen's [40:41] sister who lives in Israel and [40:42] brother-in-law. And you know the I I [40:46] feel like from this worst experience, [40:48] I've met these amazing people that have [40:50] impacted my life in ways that I can't [40:51] even can't even put into words. But that [40:55] was definitely the time that I did [40:56] experience survivors guilt. I try not to [40:59] focus on on the guilty part of things. I [41:02] know it's very hard. There's many many [41:03] victims that, you know, deal with [41:05] survivors guilt on a regular basis. But [41:07] I think I'm very focused on the fact [41:09] that the only way that I can reconcile [41:12] um and and get away from that is to make [41:15] sure that I'm sharing my story as much [41:17] as I can. on making sure that these [41:19] people are remembered because every [41:20] single person on that bus that didn't [41:22] come home that day to their families was [41:24] was a life and was a world to somebody. [41:27] And so I want to make sure that they're [41:28] never forgotten. And so I will continue [41:31] sharing what happened to me, which is [41:33] their story as well and making sure as [41:35] long as I can that people understand the [41:37] long-term impact of terrorism. That it's [41:39] not just it happens and and it's over. [41:41] That this is a lifelong um struggle that [41:44] many people have. And some people, you [41:46] know, move on and they're great and [41:47] everything's fine. But for many victims, [41:49] that's not the case. And I always think [41:51] like, you know, an a terrorist attack [41:53] happens [41:54] uh in a second, but the impact lasts a [41:57] lifetime. And for all of us, you know, [41:59] the civilians that are in these attacks, [42:02] you know, we had no control over what [42:04] happened to us that day. I had no [42:05] control over what what happened or how [42:07] the attack happened. But the only thing [42:09] I do have control over is how I live my [42:11] life going forward. And I want to make [42:13] sure that I'm doing everything I can [42:14] with the second chance that I was given [42:16] to be here and making sure I'm doing [42:18] everything that I'm supposed to be doing [42:20] um while while I still have have have [42:22] the time here. [42:24] >> Is there like a WhatsApp group of you [42:28] know the people that were on that [42:30] >> Oh, that's interesting you're saying [42:31] that. So So I'm [snorts] not so much in [42:34] touch with people from that bus. Um it's [42:37] an interesting thing. I think because of [42:39] the time it took place, social media [42:41] wasn't big. So the connections were [42:43] really hard. But what I you know um [42:46] >> I did two years after the attack um get [42:49] together with about 40 people from the [42:51] bus. We had a dinner. [42:52] >> Oh wow. [42:53] >> And um it was interesting to see the [42:55] room. It people were from all different [42:57] backgrounds. Um [43:00] Ashkanazi [43:01] um um there there were there were people [43:03] that were Israeli. There were people [43:04] that were from there was someone from [43:06] Russia. There were people from all [43:07] different places there. Um, and I [43:10] remember the the therapist saying to us, [43:12] "You're all a very interesting group. [43:14] You all come from different places. You [43:16] all have different stories and different [43:18] experiences, but you all have something [43:21] that connects you for life, and it's [43:23] this attack." Um, and we all went around [43:26] the room sharing. And it was really hard [43:27] for me still because my hearing, I mean, [43:29] was still really bad at that point. And [43:31] so I remember one of the girls sitting [43:33] next to me and translating a lot of the [43:34] the discussion for me. And I was one of [43:37] the last people to speak and I asked if [43:38] I could speak in English and they said [43:40] sure. And um I w I what I spoke about [43:43] was um there was a guy in the room who [43:47] had who was not in the attack. Um who [43:49] was he? He had been a volunteer for Zaka [43:52] for 12 years. He was at the attack to [43:55] help. And he said that this attack was [43:57] the worst attack he had ever seen. And [44:00] from that attack he'd been completely [44:01] traumatized. And he couldn't work [44:03] anymore. He he he his whole family life [44:06] was uprooted. He had I think he had like [44:07] seven or eight kids. Everybody's life [44:09] had been uprooted from this attack. And [44:11] so the first thing that I said I [44:12] remember was um you know um I said to [44:15] him, I said, "First of all, I want to [44:16] thank you for being there to help save [44:18] our lives." I said, "We often don't [44:20] think about the first responders and how [44:22] they're impacted by what we've gone [44:24] through because we think they're [44:25] superhuman." And I said to him, his wife [44:27] was saying this. I said, "I want to say [44:28] how sorry I am that your family is going [44:30] through this. um just like we're all [44:33] going through this and and I hope that [44:35] whatever is being said today that we're [44:37] able to help you to be able to have some [44:39] sort of um you know healing in the [44:41] process and I think that's really [44:43] important that you know it's not just [44:44] about us the victims that have been [44:46] impacted it's the first responders it's [44:48] the family members of the victims it's [44:49] everybody there it's it's more than just [44:52] the immediate person that's impacted [44:53] from an attack um and so I think that [44:57] you know um so I didn't keep in touch [45:00] with anyone from there per se, but what [45:02] I thought you were going towards is we [45:03] my nonprofit, Strength to Strength, does [45:05] have a a closed WhatsApp group for [45:07] victims. [45:07] >> Well, yeah. So, let's it's a good segue. [45:09] Let's let's talk about your nonprofit, [45:11] when it started, and obviously why you [45:13] started it, which I could imagine, but [45:14] sure, take us through. [45:15] >> So, so working with victims in Israel [45:17] was really u first of all, the most [45:19] meaningful thing I think I I've ever I [45:21] could ever do. And then and then working [45:23] and and dealing with victims for years [45:25] after was really important. Um [snorts] [45:28] coming back to the states was really [45:30] difficult from Israel and the reason why [45:32] I came back was because um Lumi the [45:35] national insurance had gone on strike [45:37] when I returned about a month after and [45:39] I had to go private with all my medical [45:41] stuff and at some point it got really [45:43] difficult and my dad said to me just [45:45] come home let's take care of your [45:46] medical stuff here it's just too [45:47] difficult in Israel for you there was a [45:49] lot of things you have to go through a [45:50] medical hearing when you're in an attack [45:52] to determine your injuries and and the [45:54] determination of your injuries is now [45:56] how much not how much pain you're in, [45:57] it's how large your scars are and and [45:59] the and and what injuries you have. And [46:02] so I wasn't necessarily getting all the [46:03] things I needed. Although Israel's care [46:07] a for after the attack and that year [46:08] after were amazing, but I had to go [46:10] private with a lot of stuff and it was [46:11] getting very expensive. And so I ended [46:13] up in June of 2004 returning uh to the [46:16] US. And when I got in Israel, I had all [46:18] the support around me. I had many [46:20] people, many victims I could talk to. If [46:22] I was feeling something, I had somebody [46:23] to go to. But here in the US, I had [46:26] nobody and I did feel alone. I didn't [46:28] know anyone else that had at the time I [46:30] wasn't thinking that I knew anyone else [46:31] that had gone through what I had been [46:33] through. Um it happens to be that that [46:36] um that my friend Kavi Knap um survived [46:38] a terrorist attack in in 1995 in Israel. [46:41] Um and so we talked like for a few [46:44] minutes when I got back, but I knew that [46:46] it was something that she wasn't ready [46:47] to talk about. And that's with a lot of [46:48] a lot of people. And so, while we did [46:50] talk about it, I think like on a [46:52] conversation or a call, we really didn't [46:54] talk about it too much. And so, I felt [46:55] very alone and I felt like, you know, [46:58] what am I going to do? And I literally [46:59] Googled Americans in terrorist attacks [47:02] in Israel. And I found two Americans [47:05] that were in New York that had been in [47:08] the Mike's Place terrorist attack 6 [47:09] weeks before my attack. [47:11] >> I reached out to them. I said, "Could we [47:13] meet?" And um for the fir that first [47:16] meeting was 3 hours. And [snorts] one of [47:19] them was an American who had made aliyah [47:21] 30 years prior. So she had lived in [47:22] Israel for 30 years and then came back [47:23] to the US. And the other one was an [47:26] independent filmmaker who was not Jewish [47:29] um who had been at Mike's place doing a [47:30] documentary on Mike's place and and was [47:33] caught up in the attack. And I thought [47:35] here are two people first of all [47:36] different religions, different [47:38] backgrounds. We wouldn't ever meet under [47:41] normal circumstances, but we but we all [47:44] three experience something that bonds us [47:45] for life. And I realized that if they're [47:48] needing support and they're feeling what [47:50] I'm feeling, there must be other people [47:51] that are feeling this way too. And so I [47:53] started doing my research and I started, [47:55] you know, kind of reaching out to [47:56] organizations in Europe that were [47:57] working with victims from attacks um [47:59] there. And I started and and started [48:02] slowly where I realized that there is a [48:05] a need for some support to bring victims [48:07] together globally. [snorts] And so I [48:09] remember going in 2008 [48:12] um to um the UK to speak at a [48:16] conference. There was a terrorist attack [48:17] in the UK, the London bombings in um in [48:20] July of 2005. So there was a conference [48:23] on lessons learned from that attack and [48:24] I went to that that conference. And then [48:26] I was also brought out to Madrid to [48:28] speak on the anniversary of the Madrid [48:29] bombings in March of 2004. That was when [48:32] those attacks happened. So I was brought [48:33] out in 2009 to speak at their [48:36] anniversary events. and I met all these [48:37] victims from all these different [48:39] attacks. We spoke different languages, [48:41] we had different religions, culturally [48:43] we were different, yet when we are in a [48:45] room together and we're talking about [48:47] our own experiences, we feel more [48:49] connected than ever. And so I started [48:51] thinking about how I could really bring [48:52] this all together. And that was the [48:54] impetus for starting Strength to [48:55] Strength, which is a organization that [48:57] works with I would say that works with [49:00] nonprofit organizations that are working [49:02] on the ground in 16 different countries [49:04] to work with the victims. We partner [49:06] with those organizations to bring [49:08] survivors, brief family members, and [49:10] first responders together with peer [49:11] support. So we don't actually run [49:14] anything in the country is we work with [49:16] those organizations to try and combine [49:18] and do therapeutic and recreational [49:20] programs to make sure that people have [49:22] the support they need to know they're [49:24] not alone and as I like to say survive [49:25] and thrive. Uh because a lot of people [49:28] don't feel support at many different [49:29] times. And so at least knowing that [49:30] there's somebody around you that knows [49:32] what you're going through that you can [49:33] reach out to at any time that is a [49:35] lifeline. It's priceless for victims. [49:37] And so we have grown unfortunately um to [49:40] many many victims from different attacks [49:42] all over the world. Um as I said we work [49:44] with organizations in 16 different [49:46] countries around the world. So we work [49:47] with Northern Ireland, the UK, Spain, [49:49] France, Italy, um Algeria, Iraq, Israel, [49:53] Argentina, Colombia, Uganda, Kenya, [49:55] Australia, Belgium, and then here in the [49:57] US with 9/11, um Boston Marathon [50:00] bombing, Oklahoma City, um we're [50:03] starting to get some of the other [50:04] attacks that have occurred, but it's [50:05] it's a slow process. And I also don't [50:07] push too much. So if people don't want [50:08] to be involved with us, it's it's on [50:10] their time frame. It's when they're [50:12] ready to uh to come to us. And we see [50:14] that very very often with many people [50:16] that they won't come for years and all [50:17] of a sudden something happens and they [50:20] automatically um you know want to want [50:22] to engage and want to talk to somebody. [50:24] >> There's so much to unpack in this [50:26] episode and I'm going to give you my [50:27] breakdown at the end. But first, have [50:28] you ever wondered who created Torah [50:30] anytimes technology or Eastern Union's [50:33] loan process platform that's processed [50:35] over $50 billion? or for prompt [50:37] logistics, a freight logistics company, [50:39] custom software involving carriers, [50:41] instant rate quotes and comparisons, and [50:43] doing it all beautifully and simply. [50:45] Well, that was none other than Bitbein. [50:48] Yeah, if you live in Lakewood, you [50:49] probably heard of them. And at this [50:50] point, around the world, people are [50:52] knowing about the company called Bippin. [50:54] People want to stop working with archaic [50:55] software. This is 2026, soon to be 2027, [50:58] and you should get what you want when [51:00] you want it at a fraction of the price [51:02] because AI is helping them do what they [51:04] do. and they've been in this game before [51:06] AI even existed. And I get it, maybe [51:08] you're hesitant. How could Bippine, who [51:10] has helped thousands of companies, how [51:12] could they help your company? Don't ask [51:13] me. Ask our friend Alex at Bippine. You [51:16] can have a nocost conversation call with [51:18] Bipine. No strings attached. They're [51:20] good people. They're kind. They're also [51:22] very smart and talented. So, go to [51:24] biping.com. Of course, click the link in [51:26] the show notes or give them a call the [51:27] number below. Now, this is important. [51:29] Right now, thousands of families in [51:31] Israel are wondering how they're going [51:32] to put food on the table. That's a scary [51:35] thought, but that is where Kola Kabad [51:36] comes in. For generations, they have [51:38] been making sure that the neediest [51:39] people in Israel have food, shelter, and [51:41] basic necessities so families can live [51:44] with dignity. And you can be part of it [51:46] in seconds. The Kabad Pushka app makes [51:48] giving Saddaka every day incredibly [51:50] simple. Download it once and you're set [51:52] reminders. And it's so easy. We made it [51:54] a ritual in my house. My kids every day [51:56] want to donate. So at this point, I'm [51:57] donating $2 a day and I've gotten to a [52:00] 100 day streak. Actually, let me show [52:02] that to you. [52:05] I don't know if you can see it well on [52:06] the camera, but that is literally a 100 [52:08] days. First time in my life giving a 100 [52:10] days to sedaka every single day. And [52:12] it's the kind of thing, yeah, I could [52:14] have just given, you know, it's more [52:15] than $100, but I couldn't give $100. But [52:17] I am so used to giving saddaka. I know [52:20] it's part of my day. My kids know it's [52:22] part of the day. It's easy and I'm I [52:24] actually feel good about helping people [52:25] who actually need the help in you could [52:27] become a giver. Go to Kohl Kabad's [52:29] Pushka app. You could go to [52:30] pushkapp.cc/inspo. [52:32] Of course, click the link. It's so easy. [52:34] Try it out. If you don't like it, delete [52:36] the app, but you may fall in love. So, [52:38] warning, pushapp.cc/inspo. [52:41] Start giving to those who need it. Now, [52:43] back to my conversation with Sar. For [52:45] you, it's it's been so many years, but [52:48] you're still, you know, obviously living [52:50] with that day. What's what's been the [52:52] most difficult challenge moving forward [52:56] from from that experience? [52:58] >> It's interesting you say. So, it's 23 [53:00] years. It's a long time. Um, I do feel [53:03] that no matter what anyone says and [53:05] everyone has their own experiences, but [53:06] I I just feel like it it never goes [53:08] away. You learn how to move forward and [53:10] cope with it. I think for me, um, I [53:14] think that the year going into the 20th [53:16] anniversary was the hardest year for me [53:18] for sure. Um, cuz I think that was a [53:20] point that I felt like, okay, what have [53:22] I done in the last 20 years to make a [53:23] difference? And what am I doing for the [53:26] next however many years I have? and what [53:27] what what am I doing that's going to [53:29] move the needle that's going to really [53:31] impact people in a positive way. I'm [53:33] always thinking about what more I can do [53:35] to help people um in this realm. And for [53:38] me that 20th anniversary was really [53:40] really difficult. Um I did I remember [53:43] knowing that the months before I didn't [53:44] know why something was off. I didn't [53:47] equate it with the anniversary. Um one [53:49] of our one of the members of Strength to [53:50] Strength actually said to me, Sarah, of [53:52] course you're feeling this way all these [53:53] months. Your anniversary is coming up. [53:55] And usually a month before the [53:56] anniversary, everyone starts to feel it. [53:58] I start to feel it the month before, but [54:00] this was eight or nine months before. [54:02] And I couldn't comprehend why I was so [54:04] off in in everything. Like I usually I'm [54:06] really organized. Everything is done [54:08] really well in advance. I was very last [54:10] minute on some of our plannings for some [54:12] of our events. Um I was like, you know, [54:14] not returning phone calls as quickly as [54:16] I usually do. Um victims, I remember [54:18] telling me that they were they they [54:19] would reach out to me. Usually they can [54:20] reach me any time of day or night and I [54:22] usually pick up pretty instantaneously [54:25] but this during those eight months I [54:27] remember you know I would call them back [54:28] a little later and it wasn't like me to [54:30] do that and so people did notice that I [54:32] was going through something but no one [54:34] was saying anything to me about it and I [54:36] remember having a conversation probably [54:38] about a month or two before the the [54:40] anniversary and the per and this was a [54:41] survivor of 911. He said to me, "Are you [54:43] kidding? Of course this is this is how [54:45] you've been for months. It's right [54:46] before a big anniversary." And I thought [54:48] to myself, "Oh wow." like I didn't [54:49] really think about that, but now that [54:51] it's there, I'm thinking about and I'm [54:52] thinking, okay, let me get through the [54:53] anniversary and then I'll be better. You [54:56] know, that's all I kept thinking. And [54:57] that year, I did something different [54:58] than I had done any other year since the [55:00] attack itself. It was the first year [55:02] that I was in Israel on the anniversary. [55:05] Um, and I went and that day I spent at [55:08] Hadasa Hospital um, and hosted a a [55:11] lunchon uh, for some of the doctors and [55:13] some of the victims that I knew that had [55:15] been at the hospital um, just to thank [55:17] the hospital for saving my life for [55:18] everything they did. Um, and I got to [55:20] catch up with some victims that I hadn't [55:22] seen in a while and some of the nurses [55:23] and doctors there that took care of me [55:25] and just really trying to make make the [55:27] day feel meaningful. And then that night [55:29] um, I hosted a pseudo soda with with [55:32] with my friends and family in Israel. [55:33] And I think that was very very [55:35] meaningful for me also to do because it [55:36] came full circle. There were people in [55:38] that room that were there for me on the [55:40] day of the attack. Um and then there [55:42] were people there that had been there [55:43] for me after the attack. Um and [55:45] everything in between. Um and it was all [55:47] different walks of life. It was all [55:48] different people from different parts of [55:50] of my world just coming together a and [55:52] really um being able to be thankful and [55:55] grateful um for everything that's [55:57] happened since that day. Um, and when I [55:59] returned that summer back to to New [56:02] York, um, I remember when I got back in [56:05] August, I felt like this sense of [56:07] relief, like I was like, "Okay, you [56:09] know, the the holidays are coming up. [56:10] I'm going to be able to breathe a little [56:12] easier." Um, and then October 7th [56:15] happened. Um, and that shook me to the [56:18] core. So, I think that, you know, the [56:21] hardest time for me has been the last [56:22] the last three years, which has been [56:24] since the 20th anniversary into what I [56:27] thought was going to be um you know, the [56:30] beginning of feeling a little better. [56:32] And then the day of October 7th, I I [56:35] mean, I was retraumatized from what I [56:36] had been through as well as many other [56:38] victims. And so, I think that was the [56:40] last the last three years have been the [56:41] hardest out of the 23 years for me [56:43] personally. Um, but I also feel grateful [56:46] that I have this huge support system [56:48] that if I need something that if [56:50] something's wrong, I've got a whole [56:51] group of people I can call and reach out [56:53] to at any time, day or night, from any [56:55] part of the world that are there for me [56:57] that are supportive. Um, and I'll say [56:59] this, on October 7th, um, our members on [57:02] our WhatsApp group from all different [57:04] religions and all different backgrounds, [57:06] they were supporting us. They were [57:07] supporting our Israelis that were on on [57:09] the WhatsApp. they were supporting any [57:10] of us that have been in attacks in [57:12] Israel that were that were on WhatsApp [57:13] those two days um and beyond. And I and [57:16] I'm grateful for that because you never [57:18] know when when you're going to need the [57:19] support system and it's there for [57:20] whenever anybody needs it. [57:22] >> And then there's, you know, thousands of [57:24] people now in Israel that were affected [57:27] on October 7th and after that now they [57:31] have your resource that they could [57:33] >> they do. It's interesting. We, you know, [57:35] I've been very careful, you know, um the [57:39] the October 7th was I call it it was a [57:42] global collective trauma. You know, it [57:44] didn't just impact Israel, it impacted [57:46] every single Jew around the world. Um [57:48] and I don't think we've we've [57:50] experienced anything like that probably [57:51] since the Holocaust. Um which is why [57:53] this is the biggest thing that's that [57:55] you know in terrorist attack to impact [57:58] the Jewish world. Um, but I also there's [58:01] also so many resources in Israel that [58:03] have come up since October 7th and [58:05] organizations and that I I've tried to [58:07] like, you know, reach out to them to see [58:09] how we could be helpful. Um, and to be [58:11] able to work through them because [58:13] honestly, Israel knows this better than [58:15] anybody. They are the experts in this [58:17] realm. Um, you know, and we do work with [58:19] some organizations in Israel that work [58:21] with victims. And in fact, as I told you [58:23] today, I'm on my way to a conference [58:25] that's being hosted by Natal, which is [58:27] the government's largest, you know, [58:28] support service for victims of terrorism [58:30] in Israel in terms of uh of their [58:32] services. And we work closely with them [58:34] on stuff and trying to figure out ways [58:36] to help victims and coordinate and I [58:38] will send people to their to them if and [58:40] refer them over to them if there's [58:42] somebody in Israel that needs something. [58:43] Um most of the most of the people in [58:45] Israel if they need something, they can [58:46] come to us. We have members that are [58:48] there from the second inifat, but a lot [58:50] of our members um you know are are from [58:52] that time. Um we're slowly moving into [58:55] talking to people from October 7th [58:57] because I feel like you know only in the [58:59] last year has it really been everyone [59:02] was still in it. You know the last for [59:04] the first two years heavily and until [59:06] the last hostage was brought home it was [59:08] still it was still real. It was still [59:09] there. [59:10] >> Um so there was nothing for us to do [59:12] until that until that happens. But we're [59:14] here if anyone needs anything. And and [59:16] some of our members have reached out to [59:17] people and and we've spoken to people. [59:19] But there is a lot of resources. Thank [59:21] God in Israel where in many countries [59:23] around the world there are no resources [59:24] for victims, which is why we exist. [59:26] >> I imagine in the next few years, you [59:28] know, you'll pick up more people looking [59:30] for help. And [59:33] social media is probably I mean [59:35] obviously it's good because it's helping [59:37] showcase you know what happened and also [59:39] you know giving giving you know victims [59:42] and people the room to express it but [59:44] the downside is is you know it's maybe [59:46] numbing and and kind of hiding and not [59:49] letting people really face what they [59:51] need to face and [59:53] >> interesting maybe like slowing the [59:56] healing process down. [59:58] >> I I listen I would it's not a [60:00] one-sizefits-all. Everybody deals with [60:02] things differently, so everyone's [60:04] healing journey is going to look very [60:05] different. Um, again, I don't push [60:07] anybody to come to anything. I think [60:08] that there will be a lot of people that [60:10] won't get support right away. Um, [60:12] listen, I could watch a victim from [60:14] October 7th and, you know, share their [60:16] story, especially around the [60:17] anniversaries that we've seen a lot of [60:19] people sharing, and I can tell, it's a [60:21] crazy thing. I can tell if that person [60:22] has gotten any support outside. Like, I [60:24] can just see it. Um, I think that for [60:27] for many people they will it will be on [60:30] their own timeline. And just to give you [60:32] an example, um I you know I brought [60:33] [clears throat] up my friend Kavi um who [60:36] who's just an an amazing incredible [60:38] human being from what she had gone [60:40] through. Um she was in uh a bus bombing [60:43] in 1995. They were she was on her way to [60:45] Gushkatif with her roommate Alisa Fato. [60:47] Um Alisa was killed in the terrorist [60:49] attack. She was originally from West [60:50] Orange, New Jersey. and um and Khabi [60:53] came back and there was no support here [60:54] for her. It was 1995. There was nowhere [60:57] for her, you know, no one dealt with it, [60:58] I think, the right way. And I'm not sure [61:00] that that they even knew how to deal [61:02] with it. Um and I tried to get her [61:04] involved in in the organization. I [61:06] wanted her to be there, but I didn't [61:07] push and she didn't she wasn't [61:08] interested. And then there was a [61:11] terrorist attack in November of 2015. [61:13] And that terrorist attacking was [61:15] included um Ezra Schwarz, originally [61:18] from Boston who was killed in that [61:19] terrorist attack, an American who was on [61:21] his his year at yeshiva. Um and his [61:23] roommates and his friends that were all [61:25] from from from Yeshiva. And I get a [61:28] phone call um that week right after the [61:30] attack from a community me a neighbor in [61:33] the community who said, "I don't know if [61:35] you remember me, but you spoke in our [61:37] community and shared your story last [61:38] summer." I had spoken in Long Beach and [61:42] um and she said, "I remember you sharing [61:44] and my neighbor, her son was just in [61:46] this attack in Israel. Could you talk to [61:48] her?" And so I said, "Absolutely." And I [61:50] get on the phone with the mother and I'm [61:52] trying to navigate what's going on. And [61:54] I told her they were coming back from [61:56] Israel. The all the it was it was her [61:58] son and there were there was another boy [61:59] from the community that was also in the [62:01] attack and then there was uh you know [62:02] two other boys that that were in the [62:04] attack as well. There were a total of [62:05] five boys um with Ezra. And so I said, [62:08] "You know what? Um, this was [62:09] Thanksgiving week. I said, "Saturday [62:11] night, I'm gonna come uh to the five [62:13] towns and I'm gonna come meet you guys [62:15] and we're going to help." And so I, [62:17] Khavi called me and said that she was [62:20] really shaken by this attack. And I said [62:22] to Khavi, "Come with me. Come with me to [62:24] meet these boys so we could help them." [62:25] And so Saturday nights, my mom and I [62:28] drove um to to Tene Anglewood area, [62:31] picked up Kabi and her parents and we [62:33] drove to the five towns and uh we sat [62:36] for hours just with all the family [62:38] members cuz it was parents and siblings. [62:40] Um there were there were three boys that [62:42] were there. Um two from two that lived [62:45] in the five towns and one that was from [62:46] LA. Um, and then there was a there was [62:49] another father and son there who I don't [62:52] know if they were from here or not, but [62:53] they had been um in Israel at Paris and [62:57] they were in Kron and he had and the son [62:59] had gotten shot by a by a terrorist and [63:01] so they were also there for some [63:03] support. And so Khabi and I shared our [63:05] experiences and then I saw that the boys [63:07] weren't talking at all. The parent they [63:08] don't want to talk in front of their [63:09] parents and I said to the parents said [63:11] you sit with our parents. do you talk [63:12] with our parents about their experience [63:14] and we're going to take the boys [63:16] downstairs and we're going to talk with [63:16] them and we got downstairs and [63:19] >> the we were all talking they were [63:21] sharing about everything that happened [63:22] to them and Kavi was sharing and I was [63:24] sharing and I thought we're in this room [63:26] together all of us have been impacted by [63:28] terrorism and we get each other really [63:30] well no matter where we are in life no [63:32] matter who we are we we're connecting [63:34] and and I think that was something that [63:36] that you know that triggered in a way [63:39] for Khabi to come to start coming to our [63:41] events because she saw that she had she [63:43] hadn't you know she hadn't been to [63:45] anything and then all of a sudden you [63:47] know now now she sees that you know she [63:49] wants to be a part of this and she wants [63:50] to have that family cuz I we are an [63:53] extended family that family that really [63:55] understands what she's been through [63:56] because if you haven't been in a [63:57] terrorist attack or you haven't lost a [63:59] loved one in a terrorist attack you do [64:01] not understand what we're going through [64:03] and I think that what we're realizing [64:05] more and more today is that that is the [64:07] key that if you are around somebody that [64:08] understands that is a part of helping [64:11] with the healing process to make sure [64:13] that you see somebody that is like you [64:15] that has gone through something similar [64:17] and they're able to help you and you're [64:18] able to help them. And I think it's a [64:20] joint thing. It's not just about you [64:21] needing the healing. It's if you're able [64:23] to help somebody else, there's purpose [64:25] and meaning behind what we're doing. And [64:27] so I think that, you know, for our [64:29] members and and all by the way, these [64:30] boys come to our programs and I [64:32] shouldn't say boys because they're now [64:33] adults now. You know, they were they [64:34] were young when it happened. Um but but [64:37] they're older now and they come to our [64:39] retreats and they come to our events and [64:41] and and Javi is integral in terms of [64:43] some of the work we're doing and helping [64:45] to make sure other people are taken care [64:46] of. I think it's not just about people [64:48] coming to strength to strength to get [64:50] support. It's we want to help each other [64:52] and give support. And so we're not just [64:53] about and and I remember one of our [64:55] Israelis saying this um he his father [64:58] was killed in a terrorist attack when he [64:59] was six years old. He said, "What's [65:01] different about strength to strength and [65:02] it's not he said it's not just about [65:03] helping us to heal, but it's helping us [65:06] to get through. It's not about the [65:07] trauma. It's it's moving forward and [65:09] getting through and helping each other [65:11] and giving us purpose behind what we're [65:13] doing." You know, it's it's more than [65:14] that. It's more than that we're just [65:16] getting help in the organization. Cuz a [65:17] lot of times when you go to an [65:18] organization, a support organization, [65:20] it's because you need the support, [65:21] you're getting it. But it's bigger than [65:23] that here. It's not just about getting [65:25] support. It's about giving support and [65:26] feeling like your purpose is not just [65:28] that you went through this because you [65:30] went through this horrific thing, but [65:31] you're here being able to help the next [65:33] person get through it. And so it's it's [65:34] a handinhand thing. And I think that [65:36] it's important [snorts] as people that [65:38] survived and as bereieve family members [65:40] that there's more purpose than just [65:41] okay, we you know there's something [65:43] wrong because of what we went through. [65:45] We didn't make we didn't we didn't make [65:47] this happen to ourselves, but at least [65:49] the one thing we can do is going through [65:51] something like this is make sure that [65:52] the next person has what they need and [65:54] the support they need. And so it's a [65:56] handinhand process. I feel like [65:58] >> you mentioned um your well I'm going to [66:01] the next thing that's very powerful. [66:03] That's beautiful and that's amazing. [66:05] >> Um but you mentioned your your you know [66:08] parents being there. So, you know, the [66:10] way Hashem set up the world is like we [66:12] always feel like we're in control, but [66:13] ultimately no one no one [laughter] has [66:15] control. But more but like when we're in [66:18] our own bodies, like, okay, I want to go [66:19] over here, I want to go over there. [66:21] Being the parent of the or a sibling of [66:24] of someone, [66:26] how has that impacted them? [66:29] >> I think so. I always think that um [66:32] family members are more impacted than [66:34] the survivors themselves. Um, I [66:36] definitely think my family was more [66:38] traumatized. My immediate family was [66:40] more traumatized than I was. Um, because [66:42] I was I was going back. There was no [66:44] stopping me. And my dad said, my dad [66:46] said, you know, um, as a as a Jewish [66:48] father, how could I tell my child that [66:50] they can't go to Israel? You know, like, [66:51] how could you say that? And I think that [66:53] for my parents, it was very difficult [66:54] for me to go back. Um, but I think they [66:57] knew that it was important for me and [66:58] it's a place I love. Um, and so there [67:01] was no question I was going back. it was [67:03] just a matter of, you know, certain [67:04] things that I was doing like, you know, [67:06] how I was making sure safety wise and [67:08] and and being in touch with them more [67:09] often and just making sure that to [67:10] alleviate their fears. Um, but I do [67:13] think that I do think also a lot of a [67:16] lot of us that survived and and and you [67:18] know, it's a very different we we bring [67:20] everyone together in in the same [67:22] setting, but there is a difference [67:23] between beraved and survivors. you know, [67:25] I don't like to differentiate, but you [67:26] know, you know, the loss of somebody and [67:28] the loss of somebody at a table, [67:30] especially during a holiday time and all [67:31] these things, I can't even begin to [67:33] imagine that. Um, but I think that this [67:37] the surviving and getting through it is [67:39] also a struggle in itself. Um, but I [67:42] think that I think that a lot of us, and [67:45] myself included, we don't necessarily [67:47] talk about this with our family members. [67:48] We don't want them to hear the difficult [67:51] things. We'll talk to the people that [67:53] know what we've been through. So, I [67:55] don't really talk I mean I'll talk about [67:56] it when it when it comes to certain [67:58] things that I'm dealing with, but I [67:59] don't really talk about the things that [68:01] I can talk with my strength to strength [68:02] family with the deep things that are [68:04] really emotional and you know like when [68:07] I'm at a retreat and we we we have an [68:09] you know an open discussion on on [68:11] something and especially like the last [68:12] retreat I talked about October 7th and [68:15] how difficult it had been for me. um and [68:17] that I don't usually talk and you know I [68:19] said I don't usually talk about the [68:20] difficult things all the time and people [68:22] in the room said yeah you usually don't [68:24] share with us so often. So when I do [68:26] share it it's something that's heavy and [68:28] weighing on me but I will go to my my [68:30] survivor family um or the my strength to [68:32] strength family before I'll go to a [68:34] family member. It's just it's just the [68:35] nature of the beast I think that when [68:37] you've survived something this horrific [68:39] you don't want your family member to [68:40] take on that pain and to hear that from [68:42] you. So you want to kind of protect them [68:44] a little bit more. And so again, I will [68:46] talk to other people in in the strength [68:48] to strength group. I probably won't talk [68:50] to family members about it um as much. [68:54] >> Something we were talking about before [68:56] uh the podcast was how you know [68:59] everything you're doing now is to help [69:01] you know people, okay, now that they [69:02] went through this trauma or whatever [69:04] whatever they've gone through to help [69:05] them, but also you've also been working [69:08] on preventing uh attacks and things like [69:12] that. So could you could you tell us [69:13] about that? I mean, I think that that [69:15] that there's two roles here, you know. [69:16] One is one is the therapeutic side and [69:18] wanting to help people. The other for me [69:20] personally is advocacy and making sure [69:23] that our voices are heard, that victims [69:25] are not just outside participants in the [69:27] process, that we actually are a partner [69:29] and have a role in everything that's [69:31] happening in the counterterrorism realm. [69:33] And so, you know, when I first came back [69:35] here, I tried to figure out what I could [69:37] do to fight back. Um, and I wanted to go [69:40] through legal um avenues to to do that. [69:43] And so, you know, it took a while to [69:44] find the a lawyer that I trusted and the [69:47] things that I wanted to do, but [69:48] basically um I I mean, I've been on a [69:51] number of lawsuits um against banks that [69:54] help with terror financing. Um my family [69:56] and I sued Iran in 2020 and got a [69:59] judgment in 2024 um here in the [70:01] [clears throat] US that Iran was [70:03] responsible for financing my attack. Um [70:06] I'm I recent and and again, these bank [70:08] attacks these these uh bank um suits go [70:12] on for a while. So there was the Arab [70:13] bank suit that settled and then um [70:16] unfortunately the bank decided to appeal [70:19] uh the court's decision and um they went [70:21] on a technicality and so the the the [70:24] court had to overturn what they did. For [70:26] me, the justice was is that when we got [70:28] that that answer from the courts that [70:30] said that the bank was held responsible, [70:32] that for me was a little bit of justice [70:34] because I'm not sure if victims ever get [70:36] justice for anything. But I felt like at [70:38] least the justice for me would be the [70:40] acknowledgment that they had something [70:42] to do with and that they they were a [70:43] part of the the problem of why terrorism [70:46] is so rampant. You know, the money trail [70:48] to me is very important. If if there's [70:50] no money, there's no way to carry out [70:52] attacks. So, if we can stop the terror [70:53] financing, we can help to halt lots of [70:55] terrorism in the world. Unfortunately, [70:57] there is so much um there's so much [71:01] stuff going on through the banking [71:02] system of of of money being laundered [71:05] through and being able to help to carry [71:06] out attacks. That's really where I [71:08] thought best strength for me would be in [71:10] in in doing suits there. Um the other
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