Transcript [00:00] Over the past couple of years, Call Me [00:01] Back has grown into something much [00:03] bigger than we ever expected, a place [00:06] for clarity, context, and honest [00:08] conversations at a time when those [00:10] things can seem hard to find. That's [00:13] what Arc Media is all about, building a [00:15] truly independent voice, which means no [00:18] one shaping what we say or how we say [00:21] it. To help support our rapidly [00:23] expanding operations, we created Inside [00:26] Call Me Back, our members-only feed. If [00:29] Call Me Back has been meaningful to you [00:31] and you want to be part of what we're [00:32] building, I hope you'll join us. You can [00:35] subscribe at arcmedia.org or through the [00:38] link in the show notes. And to our [00:40] insiders, thank you. Welcome to Inside [00:43] Call Me Back, our members-only edition, [00:45] where we open the door and let you shape [00:47] the conversation. Today, we have a [00:49] special episode. Over the past few [00:51] months, we have gotten some very [00:54] personal and moving questions, most of [00:57] them coming from our younger listeners. [01:00] It wasn't clear which one of us should [01:02] take them on, but then I remembered an [01:04] event I was at with John Polin at the [01:07] Heschel School in New York, and he just [01:10] clicked with them, with a lot of these [01:12] teenagers, these um young Jews in the [01:14] diaspora. So, I thought, why not have [01:16] John come on Inside Call Me Back to [01:18] answer questions coming from young [01:20] adults and teenagers. So, with that, [01:22] John, welcome to Inside Call Me Back. [01:25] >> Thank you, Dan, and to the whole Call Me [01:27] Back community. I say this at the risk [01:30] of offending perhaps some of your [01:31] listener base, Dan, but you mentioned at [01:34] the Heschel event in New York, and I do [01:36] always say, Rachel and I do a lot of [01:38] speaking in Israel in the diaspora to [01:41] all kinds of audiences. It's all [01:43] supportive, and we appreciate it, but we [01:46] particularly get energized when we talk [01:48] to young people. So, that conversation [01:50] at Heschel was one of numerous high [01:52] school conversations we've had, and we [01:54] love it. We love talking to young [01:55] people. [01:56] >> And they I mean I and the energy between [01:59] you and them, like just watching all [02:01] these students engage with you guys was [02:04] It was It was very moving. It was very [02:06] inspiring. And what is especially nice [02:08] is you know [02:09] >> [laughter] [02:09] >> um which I didn't fully appreciate at [02:11] the time was you and Rachel insisting [02:15] that not only the questions obviously [02:17] the questions were going to come from [02:18] the students in the audience, but that [02:19] the people moderating the conversations [02:22] uh with you at these high school events [02:24] should not be teachers or faculty or [02:26] staff, it should be students. [02:28] >> I think there's been talk over the last [02:30] couple of years about the younger people [02:32] in condescending way of the Tik Tok [02:35] generation and short attention span and [02:38] gross generalizations. [02:40] Maybe some of it's true, but I got to [02:42] tell you in our [02:43] meetings with thousands at this point of [02:46] young people, high school kids I have [02:49] been nothing but impressed by their [02:51] ability to carry a conversation, to sit [02:55] with people, Rachel and me, who are [02:58] tough. [02:58] >> Right. [02:59] >> We are sensitive and we bring out [03:01] sensitivity in people and I've seen [03:04] young people carry it with tremendous [03:06] maturity. So we look forward to doing [03:08] more of that. [03:09] >> When we get questions a lot from young [03:11] people, so we figured given how much you [03:13] connected with them, this would be the [03:15] perfect conversation to to put a bunch [03:16] of those questions forward to you. So [03:18] I'm going to get right into them and [03:19] they're from all over the place. So the [03:20] first question John is from Ben from [03:23] Chicago [03:24] who writes, "Hi Call Me Back Team, I'm [03:27] new to the podcast, so sorry if you've [03:29] already talked about this before. I'm 17 [03:31] years old. I'm a Zionist and I'm really [03:34] proud of being Jewish. But there's [03:37] something I've been struggling with. [03:39] There are settlers, meaning in Israel, [03:42] who commit really extreme violence [03:43] against innocent Palestinians, sometimes [03:46] even murder. [03:47] They see themselves and are often seen [03:49] by others as among the most committed [03:52] Zionists in Israel. [03:54] And at this point it happens often [03:56] enough that I have a hard time believing [03:58] it's just a few crazy people or {quote} [04:00] bad apples. So I guess my question is [04:02] this, how is their Zionism different [04:05] from mine? [04:06] Meaning from Ben's. I believe in Israel [04:09] and in the Jewish people having a [04:10] country, but I feel embarrassed and [04:11] honestly kind of ashamed when people do [04:13] these things and call it Zionism, too. [04:16] How am I supposed to understand the [04:17] difference between their Zionism and [04:19] mine? [04:20] >> Thank you, Ben, for the question from my [04:21] hometown. [04:22] Um Ben, let me start by saying your [04:25] instinct is spot on to feel a sense of [04:28] embarrassment and and shame. I don't [04:31] think there's any way to sugarcoat this. [04:33] We could talk about can people try to do [04:35] this, how many are they and who are they [04:38] that are perpetrating this violence in [04:40] the last few weeks. Those are details [04:42] that I think don't matter. What matters [04:45] is criminals are criminals. And I said [04:48] this uh on social media earlier in the [04:50] week cuz I was so bothered by it. I [04:52] think I wrote something like criminals [04:55] are criminals. They could wear a kippah [04:57] on their head, a hijab, a kaffiyeh, no [04:59] head covering at all. They could be [05:01] Jewish, Christian, Muslim, atheist. All [05:04] those things don't matter. Criminal [05:05] activity is criminal activity. It should [05:07] be condemned and it should be [05:09] prosecuted. So, Ben, first of all, spot [05:12] on on your instincts. I think that [05:14] historically when it comes to connecting [05:17] that behavior to a level of Zionism, [05:21] we have numerous examples throughout [05:23] history. The KKK in their heyday in the [05:26] United States believed that what they [05:28] were doing was the most patriotic. I [05:32] stay away from those definitions and I [05:33] stay away from them when it regards [05:35] Zionism, which is to say I don't look at [05:37] Zionism as a scale of more or less [05:40] Zionist. Ben, these people have nothing [05:43] on you when it comes to their Zionism. I [05:45] will say that I don't have data on [05:48] what's happening. Again, people are [05:50] looking for how many are these and what [05:52] do people really think? I can tell you [05:54] that [05:55] qualitatively, this feels to me like [05:57] maybe the closest thing there is today [05:59] in Israel to a consensus issue that it [06:02] is wrong. [06:03] >> Transcend left and right. [06:05] >> Transcend left and right. [06:06] >> Yeah. [06:07] >> Are there some people who are justifying [06:10] it or looking the other way? [06:12] There must be. But I can tell you I have [06:15] friends who live in {quote} settlements [06:17] in the West Bank or Judea and Samaria. [06:20] They flat-out condemn this and are also [06:22] embarrassed and ashamed. I'm not hearing [06:25] anybody speaking publicly in a way that [06:27] is anything but condemning this [06:29] behavior. So, Ben, you should do the [06:32] same thing. We have historically had a [06:35] very vibrant debate in the Zionist [06:38] movement going back to pre-statehood of [06:41] what does Zionism mean? So, we can come [06:43] up with some definition of an [06:45] independent sovereign Jewish state. [06:47] There are textbooks written on the [06:49] debates historically within Zionism, but [06:52] those are debates on what kind of [06:54] Zionism we want to have. They're not [06:55] about level of Zionism. And again, [06:58] this is just wrong and we all need to [07:00] call that out and we all need to say [07:02] that. [07:03] >> Okay. Adam from New Jersey writes, "Hi [07:05] Dan and team. I'm 18 years old and about [07:08] to start college. My aunt gave me a [07:10] subscription to Inside Call Me Back and [07:12] I've learned a lot from the podcast. One [07:14] thing I rarely hear discussed is the [07:17] social cost young people pay for being [07:19] openly pro-Israel. Some of my friends [07:21] have become very anti-Israel and while I [07:23] deeply disagree with them, I don't think [07:25] calling them useful idiots really helps. [07:28] At 18, speaking up can mean losing close [07:31] friends, your social circle, or even a [07:33] romantic relationship. To someone older [07:35] and more established, that might not [07:37] sound huge, but at our age it can feel [07:39] like social suicide. Especially when [07:41] you're being asked to make that [07:43] sacrifice for a country you increasingly [07:45] don't understand or feel connected to. I [07:47] don't really have a question. I just [07:49] think older generations need to [07:51] understand this reality. [07:54] So, John, what is your reaction to this [07:57] reality? [07:58] >> Okay. First of all, I'm going to agree [07:59] once again, [08:01] calling people with opposing views [08:02] useful idiots, not helpful. So, let me [08:05] throw out that easy one at you. I agree. [08:08] I will also validate what you're saying, [08:10] not that you need it, but I hear this [08:12] issue. From Israel, I hear about how [08:14] many people in America, close friends of [08:16] mine, are dealing with social or [08:19] familial issues of just strife and [08:23] disagreement over this issue of Israel, [08:26] Zionism, etc. [08:28] Um I know it's real. I have I have [08:31] friends who are in family therapy over [08:33] this issue, and it's terrible to see it [08:35] happening, and it's uh it's just been [08:38] painful, and it still is. [08:40] I guess I would say a couple things. [08:42] Number one, [08:44] my starting premise is [08:46] definitely within families, and also [08:48] true within close friendships, we need [08:50] to not let our disagreements get in the [08:54] way or destroy those bonds. We say in [08:58] our tradition, [08:59] "How good and pleasant is it when [09:00] brothers get along?" [09:02] How [09:03] sweet and pleasant is it when brothers [09:05] get along, when brothers are in [09:07] something together. [09:09] That's what needs to be the overarching [09:11] premise here. So, I don't know if, at [09:15] least for some period of time, people [09:16] need to step back from difficult [09:18] conversations. I really think what we [09:21] all need to be working on is, how do we [09:24] have difficult conversations [09:26] without letting them tear us apart? It's [09:29] been said by many people, but we Jews [09:31] have a thousands of year rich history of [09:35] vehement disagreement in a productive, [09:38] healthy way. That is effectively what [09:40] the concept of havruta, sitting and [09:42] learning text together, is all about. I [09:46] have a friend, Daniel Taub, a former [09:48] ambassador, lawyer, been involved over [09:50] many years in negotiations and conflict [09:53] resolution. He's recently written a [09:56] great book called Beyond Dispute that [09:58] tells the story of the history of Jewish [10:01] disagreement and how to potentially turn [10:03] it now into something productive. [10:08] >> That's it for our sneak peek today. If [10:10] you want to catch the full episode, [10:12] please subscribe to Inside [music] Call [10:14] Me Back by following the link in the [10:15] description or by going to arkmedia.org. [10:19] That's arkmedia.org. [10:22] Your support is what allows us to do [10:24] what we do here at Ark Media. I hope to [10:26] see you there. [10:28] If Call Me Back is where you come for [10:29] honest conversations about Israel and [10:31] the Jewish world, [10:32] >> [music] [10:32] >> please hit subscribe and also share it [10:35] with a friend. And if you missed our [10:37] last episode, [music] it's worth going [10:38] back for. See you next time.
