Transcript [00:02] Welcome to Waiting for 61, [music] [00:04] JTA's Israel election podcast, where we [00:06] break down the fundamentals of Israel's [00:08] [music] 2026 elections, the politics, [00:11] the fires, and what's at stake as each [00:13] side scrambles to put [music] together a [00:14] government. I'm Ami Eden, CEO and [00:17] executive editor of 70 Faces Media, the [00:20] organization behind the Jewish [music] [00:21] Telegraphic Agency. [00:23] >> And I'm Ruth Eglash, JTA's senior Israel [00:26] correspondent. Today marks 13 days since [00:29] the election and it's still not really a [00:32] sign of [music] 61. [00:33] >> As usual, remember to send your [00:35] questions to waiting for61 atjta.org. [00:38] And if you're enjoying Waiting for 61, [00:40] please subscribe and give us a fivestar [00:42] rating wherever you listen to your [00:43] podcasts. Okay, let's get into it. Ruth, [00:47] it seems like there's a little bit is [00:50] there a little bit of turbulence in the [00:51] change block? Some tensions emerging? [00:54] >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, remember last week we [00:56] talked about all the headlines flying [00:57] around after the election. So that's how [01:00] it feels right now. Uh yesterday uh [01:03] Gaddy Eisenot was handed the mandate. He [01:06] was tasked with uh forming the next [01:08] Israeli government by President Herzog. [01:11] Ever since then or even before then we [01:13] heard about you know this uh this person [01:15] in his change block angry about this and [01:18] this person angry about that. Mostly it [01:20] was Avagdor Lieberman who's the head of [01:22] the Israel Betenu party um refusing to [01:27] concede to anything and we discussed [01:29] that yesterday that he is kind of [01:30] walking back his uh his red lines on the [01:33] ultra orthodox um but there was like you [01:36] know tweet I like to call it tweet [01:38] diplomacy or tweet uh politics and [01:40] everyone was uh seemed to be fighting [01:43] each other and Eisenhot in his speech at [01:46] President Herzog's residence he said He [01:49] he kind of gave a warning. He said, [01:50] "Anyone who tries to sabotage the [01:52] formation of the government for personal [01:54] rather than substantive reasons will be [01:57] remembered it by history as someone who [01:59] failed to save Israel in a time of [02:02] emergency." He was sending a warning to [02:04] all his like his quarreling uh partners. [02:07] Um but today the it's like kind of calm [02:10] again and he him and Lieberman held a [02:15] meeting and the very very brief [02:17] statement came out of that saying that [02:19] they kind of agreed that they will be [02:21] able to form a government and it will be [02:23] stable for the next four years. It was [02:25] described as constructive and the other [02:28] thing that's happening today is uh [02:30] there's starting to be the celebration [02:32] of the Knesset. Uh tomorrow, November [02:36] 10th, will be the opening of the 26th [02:39] Knesset. Today, the new Knesset members [02:42] who've never been in never been [02:44] legislators before were shown around. [02:46] They were shown their offices. They were [02:48] given a tour. They were shown how to [02:50] vote in the Knesset plenum. So, that was [02:54] like got a lot of coverage. and the [02:56] Knesset released this uh video of all [02:59] their staff rolling out the red carpet [03:01] in preparation for the swearing in [03:03] ceremony which will take place tomorrow [03:05] afternoon in Israel. So that's that's [03:08] where things stand right now here. [03:10] What's the mood? Is the mood that Good [03:13] luck Audi Eisenhot. Great that you got [03:15] the mandate, but like easier said than [03:18] done. And people just still are so coded [03:22] and hardwired now to think of BB as [03:25] always having another trick up his [03:26] sleeve that it's inevitable that somehow [03:30] he's going to pull this out or people [03:31] are starting to say, "Oh, uh, this might [03:36] actually happen." like Gotti Eisenot [03:38] might actually be the next prime [03:39] minister and figure this out. Is there [03:41] conventional wisdom that's solidifying [03:43] around this or mood in the country? [03:46] >> I think Israelis in in in general are [03:48] very uh cynical and you know they kind [03:52] of think eh you know it's probably not [03:54] going to happen. I mean you know [03:56] Netanyahu has been prime minister for [03:58] most of the last 20 years. So to not see [04:01] him as prime minister would be is kind [04:03] of uh you know unusual. It's something [04:06] that especially younger people who, you [04:08] know, grew up under him can't even [04:11] imagine not having him at the at the [04:13] helm. Um, but you know, Eisenot said [04:16] he's going to have to use unconventional [04:18] methods maybe to get this government [04:20] going. And it seems like, and we we [04:22] talked about some different quirky [04:24] options, I think, in a previous episode, [04:26] but it seems like we might be heading [04:29] for a minority government, which means a [04:31] government that is not 61. and we've [04:34] spoken about this but you know relies on [04:37] other parties um probably not the Arab [04:39] party because Lieberman is very much [04:41] against that maybe the ultraorththodox [04:44] maybe some people here are talking about [04:46] you know individuals from the Likood [04:48] party who defect and support uh [04:50] Eisenot's party but you know I think [04:52] most people have accepted or most people [04:54] feel there's probably going to be [04:55] another election at some point in the [04:58] next year [04:59] >> just to clarify there's kind of two [05:02] options at at least for another [05:03] election. One is they literally fail to [05:06] put together a government and we have [05:08] another election without Natanya's [05:11] government being replaced [05:13] or sort of what happened with the the [05:15] last time you when Naftali Bennett and Y [05:18] Laid won last time they managed to get a [05:21] government that gets approved by the [05:23] Knesset but it's short-lived because [05:27] inherent in how they got there was a [05:29] very flimsy unstable approach and it [05:32] falls apart. part and they're back to [05:34] elections. So, you think either way [05:36] Israelis figure either right now there's [05:38] sort of a [05:40] rolling their eyes like yeah, you guys [05:42] have fun with this. We all know we're [05:44] going back to elections at some point [05:46] soon. [05:47] >> Yeah. I mean, some of the some of the [05:49] talk or some of the discussions around [05:51] the whole political system, I mean, I [05:53] think people are realizing or maybe I [05:55] heard it for the first time on Israeli [05:58] television the other day where people [06:00] said, you know, it's it's the system [06:02] that is is at fault here. You know, the [06:04] system that is built on having to have a [06:06] coalition of having small these small [06:08] parties that control the the Knesset. I [06:11] mean, we talked about the difference [06:12] between Israel and the United States [06:14] where you have two parties and here you [06:17] have all the, you know, the the system [06:18] is built on coalitions. It's got to a [06:21] point where there's so many different [06:23] views and they're so conflicting that uh [06:26] it's inevitable. I mean, it's really is [06:28] quite incredible that Netanyahu and his [06:31] block managed to keep their government [06:33] going for the full four-year term of a [06:36] of a government. And I think Netanyahu, [06:38] you know, he has added that to his [06:41] legacy because in a system that is very [06:43] fragmented, in a society that is very [06:45] conflicted and fragmented, he managed to [06:48] keep his block together. His opponents [06:50] would say he did it at a price. He had [06:52] to pay off his uh coalition partners, [06:56] the ultra orthodox, and give them what [06:57] they wanted even though it wasn't [06:59] popular. So, you know, there's there's [07:01] two sides to the argument, but I think [07:03] there is a feeling that the system is [07:06] flawed and whatever happens, it will [07:08] either be an imminent election after [07:10] this whole process of trying to form a [07:13] government if that fails or it will be a [07:15] flimsy government that will probably [07:17] fall within a year or maybe a bit [07:19] longer, maybe a bit shorter and there'll [07:21] be another election. [07:23] >> Yeah. I remember when they went, you [07:25] know, in the mid 90s to early 2000s when [07:27] they went to the sort of hybrid system [07:30] of a directly electing the prime [07:32] minister and at the same time you voted [07:34] for parties and they did that for a few [07:36] elections and then they undid it. And I [07:38] remember at the time people were like, [07:41] "No, no, no. The thing that's bad about [07:42] this is now you're giving people license [07:45] to vote for small parties because [07:47] there's no disincentive because if I'm [07:49] if I get to vote if I get to vote for BB [07:51] at the top, I don't have to vote for [07:52] Leude. I can vote for some other party. [07:54] And when they repealed it, I remember I [07:56] I remember saying at the time like you [07:59] guys might have this backwards. It feels [08:01] like Israel is going to be voting [08:05] tribally with a lot of different parties [08:08] forever. And maybe the good thing about [08:10] having a direct election for prime [08:12] minister, you know, when you build it in [08:14] with 50% as as as a threshold you have [08:17] to pass, it means the Israeli public [08:19] needs to vote for somebody with 50% plus [08:23] for prime minister. And that does create [08:26] a mandate among the chaos. [08:28] >> I think you're absolutely on the right [08:30] track. And I think what we what we might [08:32] see next is, you know, this Knesseta is [08:34] being sworn in. There's efforts by [08:37] Eisenhor and his partners to replace the [08:40] Knesset speaker and we spoke about that [08:42] before the Knesset speaker is the one [08:43] who controls the flow of legislation in [08:46] the parliament and uh there were even [08:48] attempts today I think Eisenot [08:50] dispatched one his representative to [08:52] talk to the ultraorththodox the United [08:54] Torah Judaism party and asked them if [08:56] they would support changing uh the [08:58] speaker they said they wouldn't. I'm not [09:00] sure that they even need their support, [09:02] but I think he was doing it as a [09:03] courtesy. And you know, once they change [09:05] the speaker, they can then bring about [09:08] all this legislation that could end up [09:11] changing the this this shaky status quo [09:15] where Israel finds itself having [09:17] elections every year, every two years. [09:19] Um you which seems like it's going to [09:21] become a thing unless something [09:23] significant change changes in the [09:25] electoral system. I I could see where it [09:28] would be extra controversial to make a a [09:30] decision like that in the middle of the [09:33] process, right? To kind of change the [09:34] rules of the game. That said, it would [09:37] be really fascinating if they take [09:39] control of the Knesset and and I think [09:41] we mentioned this before. There is, you [09:43] know, a different episode. I think there [09:44] was a rumor flying around or speculation [09:46] maybe one of the things they would do is [09:49] just set up a new election [09:51] [clears throat] just for prime minister [09:52] and keep the current be really [09:54] interesting to see who says no, right? [09:58] Who who argues is Netanyahu going to [10:00] come out and say no to the idea of [10:04] settling this mono like in a direct [10:06] election between him and Eisenkot? I [10:09] think we can assume that anything [10:10] Eisenot tries to do in the Knesseta [10:13] Netanyahu and his block will try to [10:16] oppose it. I I but they are not the [10:18] majority. You know, there's 67 against [10:21] them. So, they they're not they're not [10:23] the majority in the Knesset. So, they [10:26] can be against it, but they might not [10:27] get to uh control the the outcome. [10:30] Talking of crazy election results, I saw [10:34] that your president or President Trump [10:37] uh gave his first interview last night [10:39] since the disastrous election results [10:43] and I wanted to hear your take on it. I [10:45] know he mentioned Israel, he mentioned [10:47] the war with Iran, how that was a very [10:49] unpopular move and he actually admitted [10:52] some of the mistakes that he'd made [10:53] which has led to uh led to him losing [10:56] both houses. [10:57] >> Yeah. First, I I just want to clarify. [10:59] It was interesting. On the one hand, he [11:01] did name specific things were that were [11:05] mistakes, but the one thing he was [11:06] adamant about, it wasn't about Trump, [11:09] right? Like that that people still love [11:12] Trump. So, but for him, it was [11:13] definitely, you know, you're not used to [11:16] him saying anything was wrong. So, it [11:18] was it was interesting. um as it relates [11:21] to our podcast and about Israel at the [11:24] top of the interview when he was asked [11:26] about the different causes. So there was [11:29] one point where he said they didn't like [11:30] the Iran war. They didn't like the fact [11:32] that gasoline went out and then he said [11:35] and there's a great dislike incredibly [11:38] for Israel. And you know I think [11:42] everybody rightfully so like that's a [11:44] headline that's popping up like is Trump [11:46] blaming Israel? I do think like when you [11:49] watch the interview and he and I just [11:50] read to you the word incredibly. He's [11:52] not it was like Trump very much in [11:56] analyst mode. I wouldn't say advocate [11:58] mode. He he didn't say it like oh we [12:02] made a mistake by supporting Israel or [12:05] for that matter for fighting the war in [12:07] Iran. He he was saying it seems to be [12:10] that people are unhappy with Israel and [12:11] and and that hurt us. But he wasn't [12:14] embracing it. And I and I think I think [12:17] it's really important to to monitor how [12:19] he and Vice President Vance are sort of [12:23] interacting on these issues because on [12:25] one level they're saying the same thing. [12:27] They're both saying, [12:29] you know, the war was very upsetting to [12:32] parts of the MAGA base and hurt them in [12:34] the election. And also um our [12:37] relationship with Israel or the nature [12:39] of our relationship with Israel is a [12:41] problem. But Trump is saying it in in a [12:47] that's kind of crazy. And by the way, I [12:50] would do it all again. Multiple times he [12:51] said, I would do the Iran war again. It [12:53] was it's vital. We have to keep them [12:55] from getting in nukes. And he's not [12:58] sounding as if he regrets or plans to [13:00] change [13:02] his approach to Israel. The vice [13:05] president's tweet after the elections [13:07] was very different. like it was not just [13:10] an observation. It w it was really in [13:13] the weeds of saying [13:15] our problem was our voters went to the [13:18] polls and they voted for the other side [13:20] and these are the things we have to [13:21] change how we have to change if we want [13:23] to get them back. And it was also [13:25] interesting in the 60 Minutes interview [13:28] Trump said like while he was saying I [13:31] want to make clear I would do it again. [13:32] He's like I Vance might feel [13:35] differently. I'm cur you should ask him [13:37] like it was very it was very surreal the [13:39] way the way Trump was saying yeah JD [13:42] might feel differently like I wonder [13:44] what he thinks so I think there is I [13:46] don't know that they are both on the [13:49] same page exactly but I'll also say [13:51] Trump didn't so on the one hand I think [13:54] Trump is sounding a different note than [13:55] the vice president on the other hand he [13:58] doesn't seem bothered by that it doesn't [14:00] seem like a fuse like he's not trying to [14:02] say to JD Vance oh get in line with me [14:06] it feels like, oh, that's interesting. [14:08] The vice president might feel [14:09] differently than I do. So, who knows? [14:11] Who knows how this plays out or if [14:13] that's going to stick. This is going to [14:15] definitely be something to watch. Will [14:16] these things play out in the way Trump [14:19] governs now? Or is this a setup for the [14:22] 2028 race where JD Vance is going to [14:24] continue to be somewhat of a good [14:26] soldier as it relates to policy right [14:29] now, but setting himself to be able to [14:31] say, "Yeah, if he's on the view and they [14:33] ask him what's what like anything you [14:37] disagree with, you know, Kla Harris was [14:38] like, I can't think of anything." Like [14:40] he'll be ready to say yes, I would have [14:42] handled Iran and Israel differently. I [14:44] mean, that's exactly what I was going to [14:45] ask you because it seems like Vance is [14:47] setting himself up for 2028 and he knows [14:50] that he's catering to a large or growing [14:53] segment of the Republican party which is [14:56] far more isolationist than Trump who [14:59] obviously, you know, he has enjoyed the [15:02] foreign policy and getting involved in [15:04] the foreign conflicts not just in Israel [15:06] and not just Iran but also with Russia [15:08] and Ukraine because I know that he spoke [15:10] about that conflict as well. It makes [15:13] sense what you say that a vice president [15:15] is usually like the backup guy for the [15:17] president and in this case you know the [15:20] Vance is or he's identified that [15:23] supporting this war it was not a very [15:26] popular move and he's kind of distancing [15:28] himself from it in hopes of being [15:30] elected in 2028. I mean, now I'm going [15:33] to go back a bit, but in 1968, Hubert [15:37] Humphrey was Lynden Johnson's vice [15:39] president in the middle of Vietnam [15:41] running against Richard Nixon. And he [15:45] waited and waited until very close to [15:48] the election, [15:50] you know, like a month out to basically [15:52] say he would be ending the war and kind [15:55] of breaking with LBJ. and he was way [15:57] behind in the polls and started only [16:00] after he did that did he start to climb [16:02] and who knows if it's true but I feel [16:04] like there's a conventional wisdom that [16:05] oh if the election had just been two [16:07] weeks later Humphrey might have beaten [16:10] Nixon [16:11] you know you go state by state it's not [16:13] as clear if that's true but clearly his [16:15] trend line was going up and you but that [16:17] was he waited till you know the entire [16:20] second term was almost over it was like [16:22] a month out before after the convention [16:24] even where he really strongly made that [16:27] break. JD Mitch started it on like day, [16:30] like I said, day one after the midterms. [16:32] So, he's doing that. And I think you hit [16:34] on something else there about the [16:35] foreign policy. I do think there's a [16:37] difference between Trump and Vance more [16:40] generally, which is Trump has been [16:43] critical of some of our past foreign [16:46] wars and, you know, kind of thinks of [16:48] them as dumb wars and our leaders was d [16:50] are dumb. But he doesn't shrink from the [16:53] world stage. He's not saying that he [16:55] wants an America that's not an empire, [16:58] that's not flexing its muscles across [17:00] the globe, that's not in that arena. [17:03] Quite the opposite, right? He he has a [17:06] lot of things to say about a lot of [17:07] places in the world and definitely wants [17:09] to be projecting American strength. We [17:12] don't know fully yet, but I think the [17:13] vice president has a very different [17:15] general view, a much a view of sort of a [17:18] smaller American footprint. Now, that's [17:20] not just about Israel and Ukraine. It's [17:22] about everywhere. the idea I don't think [17:24] it's a priority for the vice president [17:26] for the US to be a global superpower in [17:29] the way we have been what that means I [17:32] I'm not going to presume to read his [17:33] mind I just think that that is going to [17:34] be a very interesting [17:36] set of views to unpack as 2028 [17:40] approaches and I imagine the vice [17:42] president's going to really um try to [17:45] craft you know an overall approach and [17:49] philosophy to our role in the world [17:51] that's going to feel very different from [17:53] a lot of our past presidents, including [17:55] Trump. So, that'll be something to [17:56] watch. [17:58] Okay. Uh, that's it for today. Thank you [18:01] to our producer, Maya Rackoff. Please [18:03] make sure to join us for the next [18:05] episode of Waiting for 61. And don't [18:07] forget to send your questions to waiting [18:09] for61 atjta.org. [18:11] And if you're enjoying Waiting for 61, [18:14] please subscribe and give us a fivestar [18:16] rating wherever you listen to your [18:18] podcasts.
