Transcript [00:03] - We're gonna hang out for a couple days. Oh, good. I'm gonna show him Taiwan. [00:10] It blew my mind. [00:11] - Look at that. [00:12] - Ladies and gentlemen, Lex Fridman. [00:16] Hello, everyone. [00:19] This is the famous oyster pancake. [00:21] - Amaze, amaze, amaze. [00:25] - Beatles in the '60s. [00:28] - Jensen, thank you. [00:28] - Jensen loves the night market way too much not to do it. [00:32] This smells delicious. Let's see what this is. [00:36] Let's try this thing. Doesn't make any sense. Amazing. [00:40] That's a wrap on one of the most incredible weeks of my life. [00:47] I'm visiting Taiwan, first time for me in part to hang out with [00:51] Jensen Huang, the CEO and founder of NVIDIA, [00:55] which is the world's most valuable company, and also one of the most [00:59] consequential companies in the history of human civilization. And I'm [01:03] also here to attend Computex, which is this gigantic conference, [01:07] just a sea of engineers at the heart of the land of engineers in Taipei. [01:13] Now, Taiwan is this island that's two-thirds [01:17] mountains, and this one island is responsible for more than [01:21] 90% of the most advanced semiconductors in the world. [01:26] Basically, every computer, every smartphone, every [01:30] GPU, every AI data center would not exist without this one place. [01:36] Virtually impossible to replicate anywhere in the world. You know, I often think [01:40] about ancient history, human civilization, and places [01:45] like Göbekli Tepe or the Egyptian pyramids, and there's a lot of mystery about [01:51] how was it built. And it's humbling to know that there's places on [01:55] earth like those ancient constructions that [01:59] we still don't quite understand how it's built. How is [02:02] it that Taiwan comes to dominate so much of the [02:06] semiconductor industry? And of course, there are answers. Some of it is culture. [02:10] Some of it is the education system and how much [02:14] engineering is prized within the education system. And of course, all of it [02:18] has huge implications, technological and geopolitical, [02:22] for the coming years, decades, centuries. I, of course, [02:26] want us to compete but remain friends, and I think a big [02:30] part of that is understanding each other, understanding each other's culture, [02:34] each history, and respecting it, but also working together, [02:38] and the interlinked economies, technologies, [02:42] supply chains. But also humans, talking to each other, marrying each [02:46] other, drinking beer together, eating together, all of that, [02:50] and that's what I'm trying to do, and that's what I'm trying to do here, and it's a huge honor [02:54] to be able to do that amongst so many incredible engineers that come from all [02:58] across the world, and to also be able to do that with the one and only Jensen, [03:04] a great human being, that after all of these years, he's able to maintain humility [03:10] and to truly be able to listen and to recognize everybody around him as a human being, [03:15] including me. It's a huge honor. Plus, the guy's a foodie. [03:19] There's no better person to be eating some great Taiwanese food [03:23] than with Jensen. All right, let's go. [03:28] - Hey. - Jensen. [03:28] - Lex, how's it going? [03:29] - Good to see you. [03:30] - Welcome to Taiwan. Hey, guys. Do you know who this is? Yes. [03:34] The great- Lex. Yes. I love you. [03:36] - I love you, too. [03:37] - You know, he's known worldwide as Lex, just like me, Jensen. [03:41] - You know you made it when you're just one name. [03:42] - You're just one name. [03:44] - Beyoncé. [03:44] - Jensen, Beyoncé. How was China? [03:47] - Incredible. - Incredible. [03:48] - So much kindness. [03:51] - Lex. [03:51] - You're a rock star. [03:52] - Hey, guys. Nice to see you guys. Hello. Hello, [03:57] hello. Hello. Nice to see you guys. Nice to see you guys. [04:02] Hello, everybody. [04:04] - Okay, this legit is pretty insane. Jensen, I- [04:08] - Mike, do you know the famous Lex Fridman? [04:10] - Good to meet you. [04:11] - Look at this guy. He went... He's just traveling through Asia. [04:15] - Hey, guys. Good to- [04:17] - Does everybody know the famous Lex Fridman? [04:19] - Oh, stop it. Stop it. [04:22] - Whoo. - Jensen, I love you. [04:27] - Look at this. Look at this. No cables. No cables. No hoses. [04:31] Yes. 100% liquid cooled. Yes. Last generation, Grace [04:35] Blackwell, was only 80% liquid cooled. Now, it's 100% liquid cooled. From [04:39] two hours to assemble, it's now five minutes. Things that are easy to build- [04:43] Yeah ... are also reliable. [04:44] - Officially in full production, right? [04:46] - Yeah. Yeah. Full production now. Incredible, right? [04:48] - Yeah, it's incredible. [04:49] - All this. Everything. [04:50] - And the Vera CPU, you're full in on the CPU. I saw the- [04:53] - Yeah. Yeah. [04:54] - ... 1.8x over x86. [04:56] - Oh, it's incredible. x86 CPUs, the hyperscale CPUs were designed to be rented. [05:00] - Mm-hmm. [05:01] - And so you want as many CPU cores as possible- [05:03] - Yes. [05:04] - ... because the economics of CPUs in the last generation [05:07] was how, what's the dollars per core? In this new world, [05:11] no, AI doesn't rent cores. Yeah. AI generates tokens, and they sell tokens. Yeah. [05:15] Yes. And so your per- Correct ... fundamental purpose is to go through that [05:19] exchange- Yeah ... go through that loop as fast as you can- Yeah ... and generate tokens [05:23] as fast as you can. [05:24] - The more you buy, the more you make. You might be the best salesman in the world. [05:28] That's a good line. [05:28] - Well, Lex, it's easy. You know? It's not a complicated thing. [05:32] - Yeah. [05:33] - The technology is complicated- ... but the business model. Amaze, amaze, amaze. [05:39] Thank you. All right, Lex, you gotta sign here. Lex was here too. [05:42] - All right. [05:43] - The great Lex Fridman. Yes. Yeah. [05:44] - The love I'm getting right here. [05:46] - Awesome. - This is incredible. [05:47] - He just happened to be here? No, he just didn't happen to be here. He flew out to hang [05:51] out. We're gonna hang out for a couple days. Oh, good. I'm gonna show him Taiwan. [05:57] Oh. Lex has got a awesome podcast. Very long ones. [06:02] - Very, very long. - Then you learn a lot. [06:03] - You learn a lot. [06:04] - And learn a lot. And learn a lot. [06:06] - Thank you. [06:07] - AI is a five-layer cake. I think I'll have that one. Lex, have a bite. [06:12] - I think I'll have that, the green one. [06:14] - Did you enjoy some good food? [06:16] - Yeah. - Crazy? [06:16] - Yeah, street food. - Crazy? [06:17] - Insane. [06:18] - Crazy? It's good. [06:20] - Not bad. [06:23] This is a conference cake. [06:26] - Yes, let's do that. [06:28] - Now let's welcome Jensen and all our Quanta QCT executives on the [06:31] stage to take one last group photo. [06:34] - Jensen legit is, like, the Beatles in the '60s. [06:37] - Except the Beatles actually had talent. [06:39] - Yeah, right. Well, I saw you dance on stage. It was all right. It was pretty good. [06:43] - That wasn't quite John Travolta talent. [06:59] - Remember that? [07:00] - Oh my goodness. This is one of the best. [07:04] - I have so many happy memories of that. [07:06] - Oh, yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to SK Hynix. Trillion-dollar [07:10] company. No wonder supply's so tight. Memory's so big. You want a sandwich? [07:17] - SK Hynix, legendary high bandwidth memory company. [07:21] - We invented this, LPDDR memory into data centers. [07:25] Twice the bandwidth, half the power. Twice the bandwidth, half the power. [07:29] - And now please make more. [07:31] - Yeah, yeah. Please make more. Oh, look at that. That's beautiful. [07:38] You know, when I was young, I would think that that's not good. But [07:42] now, I love wabi-sabi. You know, beautiful things- [07:46] - Yeah. - ... imperfect. [07:47] - Yeah. [07:47] - Yeah. I love that. [07:48] - Imperfection is beauty. [07:50] - Yeah, look at that. One of a kind. [07:52] - That's my favorite part, is all the different GPUs that people are- [07:56] - I know. - The old school- [07:56] - Isn't that amazing? [07:57] - The old school 1080- [07:59] - Yeah, yeah - ... the Titan RTX. [07:59] - This one. Look at this one. [08:00] - Nice. - This is the- [08:01] - Titan. [08:02] - ... 1080 generation Titan. [08:06] You know, I've seen this on TV. Let me explain. [08:10] - Anniversary. [08:15] - We're brothers. - We're brothers. [08:17] - Yeah, we're brothers. [08:17] - Cheers. [08:20] - There you go, man. [08:21] - All right, thank you. It's pretty good. [08:24] - It's nice to have just a... [08:26] - I love this guy. [08:29] - Hey. Oh, I love these people. [08:34] - Oh, yeah. [08:35] - Lex, try this. Lex. [08:36] - Mechanical? [08:37] - Oh, God. They're the best. [08:39] - Oh, nice. [08:41] - Look how delightful they feel. This is real joy. [08:43] - I have bad news for you. [08:44] - Oh. [08:45] - In the future, it's mostly gonna be voice control. [08:47] - I think so, yeah. I think better typing, don't you? [08:49] - Yeah, yeah. [08:50] - I have a hard time thinking when I'm just talking. [08:52] - Speed is not everything. Sometimes you have to pause and think. [08:56] Look at that. Back to the '80s. Look at this. Jensen, you need this for AI. [09:02] This for you. This, this, [09:07] this, this, this. Thank you, brother. [09:08] - Ladies and gentlemen, Lex Fridman. [09:12] Hello, everyone. [09:17] People are nice. [09:17] - So much love. - People are nice. [09:19] - So much love. So much kindness. [09:20] - Yeah. [09:21] - Were you nervous before the keynote? The whole world- [09:24] - I'm always- I was super nervous, - ... the whole world watching- [09:25] - ... I was super nervous, but I'm always nervous. [09:28] You know, every public speaking, doesn't matter what it is. [09:31] - Keeps you sharp? [09:33] - Yeah, well, I don't take it for granted. And, you know, I want to do a good job, and [09:37] it's because everything comes together such a last moment, it's hard to [09:41] practice at all, and we don't. And so, [09:44] you know, so I don't know exactly all the words that I'm gonna say. [09:48] - Mm-hmm. [09:48] - And there's no teleprompter. If we're gonna go build and [09:52] sell a few trillion dollars of computing over the next several years, [09:56] this entire island has to be part of it. [09:58] - Mm-hmm. [09:58] - This entire ecosystem has to be part of it. [10:00] - Yeah. [10:01] - Every single one of these companies are gonna have to invest hundreds of billions of dollars over the [10:05] next several years. [10:05] - Mm-hmm. [10:06] - And so they've got- they gotta, one, understand it, be inspired by it, [10:10] want to be part of it, and understand how they can benefit from it. [10:13] - Mm-hmm. [10:14] - And so, you know, in the keynote, [10:16] I tried to distill that down to as few words as possible. [10:24] Not like this guy. [10:28] - By the way, Jensen shows, I mean, obviously shows humongous [10:32] amount of love to me that I don't deserve, but he shows love to everybody. Everybody. [10:36] And you give some love to the gamers too, with the laptops and the games. [10:39] - Oh, I love the gamers. That's where we all begin. You know, don't forget your roots. [10:45] You know? No matter how high you are, don't let your feet leave the ground. [10:50] - Some of the most passionate humans on earth are gamers, and some of the happiest [10:54] moments in my whole life is playing video games on NVIDIA [10:59] hardware. Look at that. Look at that. [11:02] - Look at... [11:08] Look at all these people. [11:09] - It's unbelievable, man. [11:10] - It's an honor of a lifetime. Thank you for this experience. [11:12] - Wow. Hey, well, I really love hanging out with you. [11:15] Okay, are we gonna go get it done? [11:17] - Let's get it done. [11:18] - Let's go get it done. Can you sign this for me? [11:23] - FIRST Robotics shirt. [11:24] - Oh, wow. [11:26] - Thank you. Thank you. [11:26] - Love this. Look at that, 2026. [11:31] - Young engineers building robots. Most of them probably running on NVIDIA brain. [11:38] - Love that. Now, you gotta sign it too. All right. Here, [11:42] I'll hold that for you. Thanks, man. [11:46] - Thank you. [11:50] - Keep going. - Thank you. [11:51] - There you go. So good. [11:52] - Keep going, keep going. - So good. [11:53] - Thank you. [11:54] - Good job. Hey, Lex. There's more here. [11:57] - And more here. More here. More here. [12:00] - Thank you very much. - Cheers. [12:01] - Yeah, cheers, guys. Cheers, cheers. [12:03] - Cheers. - Cheers. [12:04] - Cheers. [12:04] - And also for Oliver. [12:06] - Cheers. Cheers, Jerry. [12:08] - Yeah. Seriously, seriously. [12:10] - I love this. [12:11] - Yeah, yeah, yeah. [12:18] Good? [12:19] - Let me try it. [12:21] - Beyond good. That guy's seen it. [12:27] - Mm. - That's right. [12:28] - Beyond good. [12:30] - And after you finish it, please sign for us. [12:33] - Amazing. - Wow. [12:34] - Really good. [12:35] - I really needed that. [12:38] - Yeah. [12:40] - This should be a long day for you. Starting from morning. Yeah. [12:44] - Uh, doughy, salty- [12:46] - Oh. [12:46] - ... with a nice beer. Taiwanese beer. [12:49] - Taiwanese beer. [12:51] - Yeah. [12:51] - The best part of the tour right here. [12:53] - Exactly. [12:56] - Oh, man. Oh, my God. [12:58] - Now you just have to 3D print a statue. [13:00] - Please don't do that. Okay, you guys. Thank you. [13:07] - Bye. [13:07] - Come on, Lex. You with me. Lex. Where's Lex? [13:10] - Here. - Get on the other side. [13:10] - You sure? You good? - Yeah, yeah, of course. [13:12] - Thank you. Thank you, sir. [13:15] - I'm not gonna strand you in Taiwan. You know I'm gonna find you again. [13:19] - Yeah, exactly. In a river somewhere. What an incredible, incredible experience. [13:23] - It's truly amazing how much... You know, there's this outpouring of love and- [13:28] - It's really inspiring to see an engineer be treated like a rock star, 'cause engineers build [13:32] the world, and they don't often get the love- [13:36] ... I think they deserve. Yeah, and you're, like, an inspiration to, [13:41] to thousands, millions of young kids who will, like, "Okay, I'm gonna, [13:47] I'm gonna be an engineer, too." [13:48] - That's right. Exactly. Exactly. - How was your China trip? [13:52] - Oh, my God, my China trip was chaos. Did you see all the stuff? I go [13:56] downtown Beijing, it just turned into mayhem, complete mayhem. [14:01] - Yeah, you got some food, right? You got- [14:02] - I had food from every restaurant. [14:04] And then I became their poster child- ... of every single restaurant. It didn't [14:08] take them long. It was, like, maybe about half an hour. I was on the web with... For every [14:12] restaurant. Tomorrow we have incredible lunch. [14:15] - Mm-hmm. [14:15] - Okay? It is, like, just utterly crazy. It's rice dumplings. [14:19] - Nice. [14:20] - They wrap it in tea leaves. [14:21] - Nice. [14:22] - And this is, this one is as good as it gets. [14:25] - Yeah, Computex, thank you for this. Thank you for suggesting it. I don't think I've ever experienced [14:29] anything like it. Just great engineers everywhere. [14:33] - This is, this is where the world builds computers. [14:37] - All right. [14:38] - And people are so humble, you know? [14:40] - Yeah, humility. - People are so humble. [14:41] - Humility. That was one of the things I've experienced in China, 'cause I also interviewed a bunch of [14:45] the AI folks, and here in Taiwan same thing. It's just humility. Nonstop humility. [14:51] - Yeah. [14:52] - These folks, young engineers are changing the world. [14:54] - Yeah. [14:55] - There's, there's no arrogance whatsoever. [14:57] - In United States, we've gotta get manufacturing back. And [15:02] this is, AI... During the, during the AI boom is our best [15:06] chance to invest in the grid, invest in sustainable energy, [15:10] invest in manufacturing again. There's so much demand. And so [15:14] whether the demand is so great, whether you manufacture, you know, anywhere in y- [15:18] in the world- [15:18] - Mm-hmm [15:19] - ... Fact is you can afford it. And so you might as well manufacture in United States as well. [15:22] Take the opportunity. And now with AI in manufacturing, robotics in [15:26] manufacturing, this might be the perfect time to reindustrialize the United States and [15:31] move a lot of the industries that we've kinda lost over the years, you know, back into [15:34] United States. That's what, that's what I'm hoping for. Really working hard to [15:40] reindustrialize the US, and this is, this is just a great time to do it. [15:44] - Yeah, the TSMC folks say you have to visit Arizona. [15:48] - Yeah. Yeah, it's true. It's true. You know, what's, what's really great is [15:52] that, that Taiwan is a strategic [15:55] partner in reindustrializing United States. Look, we're trying to set up fabs in [15:59] United States, and what do they do? They send a bunch of engineers. They invest a [16:03] whole bunch of money. It's not easy [16:07] building up a world-class semiconductor manufacturing in United States because there's just not enough talent there. [16:11] So they shipped a whole bunch of people, they're training people, they're bringing, bringing... [16:15] You know, Taiwan is really, really truly from a technology perspective, [16:19] a real strategic partner to United States. [16:21] Yeah. You know, I just really hope that people see that. [16:24] - Do you have some wisdom to understand why so many of the incredible [16:28] companies at every layer of the stack, especially in the hardware infrastructure, come [16:32] from here? [16:33] - Well, this can go back to a gentleman named K. [16:37] T. Li, and as part, part of their, their Science and Industries [16:42] Ministry. And he was chartered with... And he had a vision, um, [16:48] in the '50s to, to bring science and technology [16:51] and technology manufacturing to the island. [16:56] And it was, it was really his vision that compelled Morris to come back. [17:01] - Mm-hmm. [17:03] - And before all of that happened, and I forget exactly how the history went, but [17:08] Philips, which is the parent company that spun off the fab that [17:14] became TSMC and spun off the semiconductor manufacturing equipment that became ASML, [17:21] it's amazing that it came from Philips. [17:24] A consumer electronics... They were the GE of Europe. [17:27] - Mm. [17:28] - And GE, as you recall, was also in semiconductor manufacturing in the early [17:32] days, and they were doing all of, you know, advanced manufacturing as well. But somehow [17:36] he attracted Philips to come to Taiwan, and that was really the beginnings. [17:42] - The implant of the seed. [17:43] - Yeah, yeah. And from UMC and TSMC, [17:49] which were seeking to manufacture the right type of chips, the [17:57] perfect timing happened with the PC revolution. IBM, in their wisdom opened [18:06] the specifications of what is called the IBM Compatible Chipsets. [18:11] Basically, all the chips that made up for the motherboard, the cache controller, [18:15] memory controller, interrupt controller- [18:17] The VGA controller, the graphics controller. That, that specification was con- [18:21] was specified and open. Well, all these smart engineers, [18:25] ended up taking that specification and designing [18:30] the chipsets that were manufactured at TSMC and UMC. That is the beginning- [18:35] - Mm-hmm. [18:35] - ... of how the PC industry really evolved. What started out as Compaq, [18:39] IBM, because of Taiwan PC chipsets were [18:43] available to all kinds of companies, including, you know, this little kid named Michael [18:47] Dell. [18:48] - Mm-hmm. [18:49] - And so he was just he just bought motherboards from Taiwan, assembled them into a [18:52] PC, bought an operating system, licensed an operating system from Microsoft. [18:56] - Mm-hmm. [18:56] - He became a PC maker. That entire loop, you know, Michael has a [19:00] relationship with Taiwan that goes way back. [19:02] - And he's from Austin, Texas. [19:03] - Yeah. [19:04] - Pride of Austin. [19:06] - Yeah. [19:07] - And he's doing- - What a good guy. [19:08] - Yeah. Great, great. [19:08] - What a nice man. [19:09] - Great human being. [19:10] - Yeah, really great human being. [19:11] - There's something about the culture. I had this really nice woman say that [19:15] she grew up in Taiwan, and said, "As a girl, I learned how to [19:19] spell CoWoS before I could spell Gucci." I thought it was a good line. That's- [19:24] ... that also says something about the- [19:26] - Yeah [19:26] - ... value of engineering in the culture. [19:27] - That's right. [19:28] - Like, what's considered cool. [19:30] - CoWoS. [19:31] - So thank you for, thank you for bringing cool back, Jensen. [19:33] - Yeah, we brought sexy back to technology. [19:36] - Bringing sexy back. All right. Thank you, brother. [19:38] - Yeah. [19:38] - Thank you so much. [19:39] - So tomorrow night, dinner. [19:41] - Yep. - Okay? [19:41] - And night market. [19:42] - Yeah, night market afterwards. [19:43] - Okay. Stay strong. [19:45] - All right. [19:59] - Couldn't help it. Had to. Jensen loves the night market way too much not to do it. [20:05] - It's so good. [20:14] - Oh, they love Jensen. [20:21] - Thank you, thank you. [20:25] Wow, so hot! Fresh out of the oven. Awesome! [20:28] - No, no, no, no, no. - This looks incredible. [20:30] - Eat it now. This one's the best. [20:52] - Cheers. [20:53] - All right, I officially can't wait to eat this. [20:56] - Cheers. [21:03] - This is nuts. [21:06] - Don't lose, don't lose, don't lose the white kid. [21:10] - I got him. [21:11] - You can save one. Pineapple or watermelon? [21:14] - I think watermelon. [21:16] - Watermelon, right? [21:19] - Watermelon. [21:19] - Watermelon. It's a like hamburger. [21:21] - Nice. [21:22] - Take a bite. I think it's time. I think it's cool enough now. [21:26] - Yes, nice and warm. [21:28] - Yeah, I think it's cool enough now. You're gonna like that a lot. [21:37] - Oh, this is amazing. [21:40] - I know. Nice to meet you. [21:44] - I'll hold our camera. [21:48] - Mm. [21:49] - It's really hot outside. This is nice and cold, super refreshing. [21:56] - Mystery ball. [21:57] - Sweet potato. [21:58] - It is so good. [22:07] - It is so good. [22:13] - Try one. [22:18] - So it's empty on the inside, crunchy on the outside. It's like a sweet potato [22:22] marshmallow. [22:23] - That was delicious. Orange- [22:25] - Watch out. [22:26] - ... uh, I think so, NVIDIA. [22:29] - One, two, three, four. [22:38] - Original. [22:38] - The one we're going with? [22:39] - I think so, just simple. [22:41] - Yeah. - Too salty? [22:42] - No, no, perfect. Delicious, right? [22:49] - That was hot. Thank you. [22:51] - Oh, okay, younger brother. Come here, little man. [22:55] - All right. [22:58] - Looks delicious. [23:05] - It's my treat. - No, no, please. [23:09] If you do this, I can't come back. [23:12] - It's fine, it's fine. - It's a tip. [23:15] - No tip needed. Please. [23:17] - Then I can't come back. [23:20] Refused to take my money. [23:25] Look at him. Look at him. He squeezed the, he squeezed the money right back into the bag. [23:29] - Okay, sure. Okay. [23:32] - Cheers. Cheers. [23:33] - Cheers. [23:38] - So good. - Very good. [23:40] - I didn't want you to impale yourself. [23:43] - All right, guys. [23:46] - Cheers. [23:50] Oh, nice. This is nice cold Taiwan beer. [23:57] What is it? [23:58] - Oh, a little of this noodle. [24:14] - That's amazing. - Amazing, right? [24:15] - Spicy. It's really good noodle. It's really good noodle. [24:20] - Wow. [24:21] - Somebody handed this to Jensen. I'm enjoying the hell out of it. That might [24:25] be the best food I've ever had. [24:29] - Okay, look at this. Doesn't make any sense. [24:32] - This is your vegetable. [24:34] - Yeah, I think that counts. [24:35] - We need to make sure we get a balanced meal. Yeah. [24:46] - Some cinnamon. [24:47] - I bet it's like a cinnamon... It's like a snickerdoodle meets corn. [24:50] - Mm-hmm. This is good. [24:52] - What could be bad? It's so good. Cooked the right amount. [24:57] - For me, probably the noodle was number one. [25:00] - Me noodle. - Yeah, yeah. [25:01] - Yeah, that was good. That was good. And whatever that sweet potato- [25:05] - Those little balls? There's still some more of those. [25:07] - That was really good. [25:09] - Those were delicious. Second best. [25:11] - Those were really good. [25:13] - Going back out there for some shaved ice. [25:15] - All right, let's go. All right. [25:17] - Thank you. Once more into the breach. Thank you. [25:23] - Whoa, whoa. All right, guys. Excuse us. Excuse us. [25:33] Make some money. Hello, everybody. Hey, that's me. That's me. [25:40] - No, it's not. [25:41] - Hey, that's why we have hair. [25:42] - That's not you. [25:43] - That's why we have hair. You have a very limited wardrobe. [25:49] That's true. Limited suggests there's more than this. [25:52] - Than more than one. So Jensen was here, I think, a day or two ago, and [25:57] a lot of these folks came here because he was here [26:00] a couple days ago. And now they're like, "I did, we didn't expect you [26:04] to also..." He comes with the place, basically. [26:07] - Peace out. And this, it feels like a movie opportunity between, like, 11:00 and [26:12] 1:00. Lex, was this your first shaved ice? [26:14] - First time. [26:15] - Oh, okay. Well - Can we get a selfie, me and you? [26:17] - That is incredible. [26:19] - So good, right? [26:20] - Stupid amazing, right? [26:21] - Stupid amazing is right. [26:22] - Yeah, yeah. [26:24] - Part of my home. I know. [26:27] - You can't explain this. [26:29] - No. No. People tried to explain it to me. Not even close. Not even close. [26:39] - Watermelon, amazing. [26:40] - Why all that? [26:45] - Check it out. [26:51] - This is Joy. - Mm-hmm. [26:53] - Is there a lot of NVIDIA teams that's local to Taiwan? [26:57] - A thousand. - A thousand. [26:58] - Yeah. [26:59] - Supply chain. A lot of systems engineering. [27:04] - All three women. [27:05] - Operations engineering. Mm-hmm. [27:08] - Did you try this one? [27:10] - Or fab. [27:11] - You're gonna like it. It's really a mild flavor. [27:13] - And fab engineers. - It's good. [27:17] - Packaging engineers, test engineers. [27:21] - So all those super legit hardware folks. [27:23] - Yeah. They, [27:26] we're gonna build a building just like the building you were in. [27:33] - Mm-hmm. [27:33] - Almost a replica. [27:35] - Mm-hmm. [27:36] - We just have to settle down here. Get a piece of land. And, [27:40] that building will hold 4,000 people. So we'll hire another 3,000 [27:48] people. Wow. Brain freeze. [27:50] - Yeah. [27:51] - Given the heat outside, it's nice. [27:53] - Mm-hmm. Oh, my goodness. [27:55] - Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [27:59] - This one's a gift. [28:02] - Oh, wow. [28:04] - This is very good. [28:05] - This is good. [28:07] - Pineapple with guava. [28:08] - You know it now with sugar rush. [28:10] - No wonder they, no wonder they gift-wrapped this to us. [28:13] - They wanted you to try something new. [28:14] They're sampling. Expand the market. It's tasty. [28:18] - I think- [28:19] - Get a photo that goes all over social media. Yeah. [28:27] - Let's go. - Good stuff here, guys. [28:28] - Thank you. [28:29] - Sorry, guys. One more, one more. [28:39] - This is the famous oyster pancake. [28:43] - Thank you. [28:56] Oh. [28:58] - Crazy good, right? [29:01] - So good. - Yeah. [29:02] - Get it all in there. [29:03] - Did you oyster, did you do oyster? [29:06] - Yeah. [29:08] - Okay. [29:13] Wow. This is the reason I came here. [29:20] Wow. [29:22] - It's amazing. [29:25] - I'll go in for seconds. [29:28] Oyster. Famous Taiwanese oyster pancake. [29:33] - Amazing. [29:37] - That oyster pancake was- [29:39] - Oh, yeah, yeah. Perfect finish. [29:40] - ... wow. [29:41] - Perfect. - Wow. [29:42] - That's the reason it's famous. [29:44] - My mom and dad loved that, and we would come to the night market. [29:51] And that's kinda, you know, when we go out to dinner, that's the definition of go out to... [29:54] You don't go to a restaurant. [29:55] You know, we didn't have money like that. And so we'd just go to night market, and you sit at these [29:59] tables. And I was looking for a restroom, so I wandered off, [30:06] and I walked up to this guy, this cook, [30:10] and I was about to ask him, you know, if there was a restroom somewhere. And he was cleaning his [30:14] knife, and my face was right next to his knife. Cut me right through, [30:18] right across my face. I was five. I was almost five. [30:25] So my dad picked me up, ran me to the hospital. [30:32] Always loved the night market after that. I always had a fond memory. [30:37] - Yeah, sometimes the pain solidifies the happiness, right? [30:40] - Yeah. It was, you know, it was the reason why I went. The food was so good. [30:47] I love the place. [30:50] - You still feel like that kid- [30:53] - Yeah. [30:53] - ... to some degree? [30:54] - Yeah. I mean, you could... You know, I loved everything. I loved all the people. [31:01] Everybody's working hard for a living, and they're working so hard, and they still [31:05] wanna share a little something with you, you know? [31:07] - Mm-hmm. [31:08] - They don't have that much money. [31:11] Their profit margin on that thing must be a dime each, you know? [31:14] - Right. [31:14] - They gave me all their profit, right? [31:17] - Right. [31:18] - You know, just to be kind. [31:23] It's the Taiwanese way, [31:25] and it's nice to watch, you know, these people, their craft. [31:29] - Mm-hmm, and many of them have been doing it for years. [31:31] - Yeah. [31:32] - That same... I mean, you know, there's a famous documentary, Jiro Dreams [31:35] of Sushi, but there's a bunch of Jiros over there. [31:38] - Exactly. [31:38] - They've been doing the same meal in that night market. [31:42] - Dang, that pork sausage was so good. That was so good. And that bun was good. [31:49] - Yeah, the bun was good. [31:51] - The fried potato balls. [31:52] - Mm-hmm. Amazing. I don't know how they do it. [31:55] - Oh, and that fluffy- [31:56] - Yeah. [31:56] - ... rice cake- ... with the brown sugar on top. [31:59] - That somebody just handed to you- [32:00] - Exactly. [32:00] - ... and turned out to be magic. [32:01] - And that noodle. [32:03] - Oh, yeah. The noodle. [32:03] - Oh, come on. That noodle. The hot sauce. [32:06] - Uh-huh. [32:08] - That ball, that white ball. [32:09] - Mm-hmm. [32:10] - It's a little bit of a fish cake on the outside, and it's pork on the [32:14] inside. Man, oh, man. [32:17] - Yeah, the layers. You're right. It's a little bit of fish cake. [32:19] - Yeah, that gives it that little QQ. [32:22] - Yeah. [32:27] - We ate, like, 10 things. That noodle was good. That was my first time with that noodle. [32:31] Wow. [32:31] - Mm-hmm. [32:32] - Dang. Did you go to Shanghai? [32:36] - Yeah, for some of the MiniMax, some of the AI companies that- [32:40] - Okay, yeah. Boy, those companies are good. [32:42] - And then went to Hangzhou for Unitree, [32:46] and those... The robotics folks, full of humility. There's a lot of robotics [32:50] companies, and you know what all the AI companies are saying? [32:54] They're compute starved. [32:56] - Yeah. [32:58] - More compute. [32:59] - Yeah, but somehow, somehow, you know, while they're compute starved, it [33:03] forces them to come up with these- [33:05] - Yeah, exactly. [33:05] - ... incredible architectures that are so efficient. [33:08] - Yeah. Yeah, constraints is the kinda mother of invention. [33:12] - Right. [33:14] - Scarcity. [33:15] - Yeah. And they're severely, severely constrained, [33:18] and they're... Still, they're getting funded. They're still... Right? [33:21] - Mm-hmm. Yeah. Any IPOs? [33:24] - Yeah. Just getting it done. Like a son of a gun. [33:30] - All right, Jensen. Thank you for an experience of a lifetime. That was [33:33] delicious. Thank you. [33:35] - Thank you. That was fun. That was incredible. [33:36] - Thank you. That was awesome. [33:37] - All right, we got the data model. [33:41] - Let's get ready! [33:42] - Still going. [33:46] - It's become world-class. [33:48] - Taiwan, number one whiskey. [33:49] - Yeah. - Go on. [33:50] - Kavalan. It's good. Welcome to Taiwan. [33:56] - Welcome to Taiwan. [33:56] - This is... Here, turn... Yeah, turn around. Turn around. [34:00] Let's go around here. This is Taiwan. This is Taiwan. [34:04] - That's the stage on which Jensen promised me personally he will dance on tonight. [34:10] - We are dancing. A couple more bottles of whiskey- [34:13] - We are- [34:13] - ... we are dancing. [34:15] - So we're actually at the NVIDIA employee gathering, and it's just... [34:19] It's incredible how many people, how many people are here, many of them traveling [34:23] from across the world, but- [34:25] - And this is a traditional five-star prepared table. It's basically a feast. [34:33] - Look at this. [34:35] The party's already started. But cheers, my friend, and thank you for everything, [34:39] Jensen. Thank you for meeting me here. [34:40] - I want you to enjoy the Taiwanese hospitality. [34:47] - Jensen is literally feeding the press. [34:51] - Okay? So whatever you guys need, just speak up. Whatever you need, tell me, okay. [34:56] - Okay. Okay. [35:01] - Just handing out food to the press. It's awesome. It's hot out here. It's [35:05] dinner time. [35:06] - It's a show. [35:07] - They're working around the clock. [35:08] - They need love, too. [35:09] - Yeah, Lex Fridman. [35:11] - Oh. [35:12] - Lex Fridman. [35:13] - Woo! [35:13] - You just met the GOAT. The OG. [35:20] Lex Fridman. [35:21] - Look at that. Such a sweetheart. Cheers. [35:30] What people need to realize, all that cheer is after many, many hours of [35:34] doing another booth tour today. [35:36] - Did you see what happened today? [35:38] - I heard- - There were like- [35:39] - ... it had gotten nuts [35:40] - ... several thousand people were lined up. I came around the corner, [35:44] I looked down, and my mind just went, "I have no idea what to do." [35:49] I have no idea what to do. It blew my mind. And they were all [35:52] screaming and cheering, and- [35:55] - It's all love [35:56] - ... oh, man. It's incredible. Their capacity, their capacity [36:00] for generosity and kindness and be helpful to other people, it is the [36:04] reason why this island, all these companies here, are at the center [36:08] of the ecosystem. It's because of that fundamental generosity [36:12] and the capacity to help other people. It's the reason why they're the supply chain for the world. [36:17] It comes from that. [36:18] - Willingness to work very hard. [36:20] - Super hard. Super hard. [36:22] - Just the combination of the two. [36:24] - Super hard. [36:26] - Lex, I don't know what's going on here, but there's air conditioning. [36:29] - This spot in Taiwan- [36:30] - This exactly [36:30] - ... there is air conditioning. [36:32] - There's a specific spot in this place and time. [36:36] - Right here. Right here. [36:42] - The universe just says you need a little break. How long you been working at NVIDIA? [36:45] - 17 years. [36:46] - 17 years. There we go. Look at this. He's taking selfies. [36:49] - Yeah, that's right. [36:51] - Something is happening right here. This, all of Taiwan, is hype- [36:57] - It's true - ... for right here [36:58] - It's right here. This is true. This is nice and cool in here. [37:01] - Oh, yeah, there's air movement right there. [37:02] - Is that- [37:03] - It's the cool air from there. [37:04] - Oh, from the refrigerator. [37:05] - Just because of that? [37:13] - Yeah. [37:14] - This is literally the air conditioner. [37:17] - It's a refrigerator. Was that good? [37:35] - Mm-hmm. - The, the- [37:36] - The sauce makes it, with a bit of pepper on top. Amazing. [37:47] Hey, thank you. Thank you. Have fun. [38:01] I love you guys. Thank you very much. [38:02] - Love you, Jen. [38:08] - So when we were dating in college, uh, I had no money. [38:15] No, because my parents didn't give us allowance. Because, you [38:19] know, when I was raised, I was raised like a Taiwanese kid. [38:23] There's no allowance. If you need money, if you're dying, call home. [38:30] Is that right? Yeah. [38:32] And if you're not calling home, they're not gonna give you money. I realized [38:36] right away that she had allowance. [38:42] And so I started dating her. Oh! Woo! [38:47] I started dating her for her money. [38:52] Oh! 25 cents a week- ... so we could play video games. [38:59] - Well, hey there. Sorry for the quick interruption. I'm out here in nature, [39:03] not AI generated, but I'll tell you what is, the [39:06] videos and stories in video form that Higgsfield does. [39:10] Human in the loop is important there, but AI does a lot of [39:14] incredible work. Jensen and I talked a lot about how much we love video games, so [39:18] asked Higgsfield to generate a quick video [39:23] showing the history of video games, and the challenge is to see if I can [39:27] identify all of them. Start, play. That's Pong in the Matrix. [39:34] Uh, Mario with alcohol. Uh, Street Fighter. Uh, uh, Dark Souls. [39:44] Heh, maybe my favorite. Uh, Arena, Daggerfall, [39:48] Skyrim, the Elder Scrolls world. When is Elder Scrolls VI coming out? [39:52] That was a... I think I saw a little bit of SimCity, [39:56] and T- I mean, that's Grand Theft Auto. Speaking of which, when is Grand Theft [40:00] Auto VI coming out? For that one, we know the answer: November [40:04] something, 19th. Anyway, thank you to the people who create incredible video games. [40:08] Some of the happiest hours, [40:12] many hours of my life have been playing video games, and I've [40:16] done a bunch of interviews. Dan Houser, Jeffrey Kaplan, Todd [40:20] Howard, Carmack. The list goes on and on. I'll have many [40:24] more. Anyway, this is me procrastinating while I should be running, [40:28] so back to the video. [40:31] - You don't mind my parents coming, right? [40:33] - No. - They, they- [40:34] - This is great. [40:34] - ... just love this place so much. [40:36] - So we're having some braised pig's feet. [40:50] - Hello, everyone. [40:54] - Hello. Hello, hello. This is so great. You mind if I sit with you? [41:05] - Yeah, sit. Good to see you. [41:08] - Nice to see you too. [41:08] - Have you had pig's feet before? [41:09] - Yeah. [41:10] - I'm guessing it's a bit of an acquired taste. [41:13] - Actually, I taste fine. It's just you acquired it now. [41:15] - Look. [41:16] - Eggs and tofu. [41:25] - And asparagus. [41:28] - Get ready to eat this. This is so good. [41:33] - This is another one of my favorites. [41:33] - So this is pork, this is tofu, eggs- [41:36] - Yep. [41:36] - ... and that's the pig's feet. [41:37] - Pig's feet. [41:44] Wow. Awesome. [41:48] - It sounds iffy, but it tastes really good. [41:50] - It is so good. [41:51] - My favorite is when Judson becomes cameraman. [41:54] - Yeah. [41:55] - He knows how to multitask. [41:57] - Got it. Almost missed it. [41:58] - You got it. You got it. Teamwork. [42:02] - Yeah. [42:04] - She's going in. [42:05] - That's the toe right there. [42:08] - I think it's a branding issue. It's all about the name. [42:12] It probably took years for people to learn how to spell NVIDIA correctly. [42:16] - Mostly they spell it NVIDIA. [42:19] - No IDIA. - Yeah. [42:20] - Yeah. [42:20] - Look at that toe. Look at that toe. That's a good toe. [42:23] - Does America do Taiwanese food good or no? [42:26] - No, but it's starting to do better. [42:31] - What's that going? [42:33] - Everything. [42:37] - Flex. [42:37] - Flex. It's good to see you. [42:38] - Good to meet you. We didn't get a chance to chat. [42:41] - My little brother. [42:42] - Tell everybody about Jensen who uses Perplexity. [42:44] - Yeah. Jensen and I are just chatting how when he's learning about new [42:48] things, maybe learning about new companies, he uses Perplexity Computer. [42:52] - Yeah. I do. I love Perplexity Computer. [42:57] - Okay. Awesome. [43:09] Beatles in the '60s. [43:11] - Thank you. [43:11] - Through all of that, maintaining humility. What a life, Jensen. [43:15] Does that weight ever get heavy, that you have this responsibility, millions of [43:19] people looking up to you? [43:21] - I... It doesn't, you know, because I, I don't take it, I don't take it [43:25] like that. You know, people have always been nice to me. I was- [43:29] - Even when you had nothing. [43:30] - Yeah. And I was always nice to other people. [43:33] - Yeah. [43:33] - You know, and I was always polite, and I always wanted people to succeed. [43:39] I wanted them to be happy. When I was going through school, I was always [43:43] hoping that all the other kids would do well in school. [43:45] - Mm-hmm. [43:46] - And I was, I was happy to share my homework with everybody. [43:50] I like seeing other people succeed, even my colleagues in other companies. [43:55] - It's a funny thing how the world works. If you just celebrate others and you want them to [43:59] succeed, somehow you succeed more. [44:03] - Like, for example, 43,000 employees at NVIDIA wants me to [44:06] succeed, literally. You know what I'm saying? [44:09] - And you want each of them to succeed. [44:11] - Exactly. [44:12] - And you want... I mean, I've seen you. You want people at other companies to succeed. [44:16] - And they want me to succeed. [44:17] - So... Mm-hmm. And that, there's a ripple effect to the whole thing. [44:22] - Yeah. Exactly. There's a- You know, goodwill is not a zero-sum game. [44:28] It's not limited by physics. [44:32] - Can you think through, talk through your export controls view? You've [44:35] been- had strong opinions that export controls is not the way America should win. [44:42] - Mm-hmm. [44:43] - Can you steelman the case for that and against it? [44:45] - The case against it is simple. [44:48] If there's something that is valuable, something that's [44:52] useful, something that is a force multiplier. So for [44:56] example, rare earth is a force multiplier. Computer technology is a force multiplier. [45:02] Um, [45:03] you know, technology in general is a force multiplier. You could argue that knowledge is a force [45:07] multiplier. [45:08] - Mm-hmm. [45:09] - Uh, intellectual property is a force multiplier. And so, if we have [45:16] assets like that, then depriving other people of it, [45:20] um, enhances our position, deprives them of theirs. And- [45:26] - It's a way to gain a competitive edge- [45:28] - Yeah [45:28] - ... is by hoarding that particular resource. [45:31] - Right. Keep it out of the hands of others. And that's, that's not completely untrue, [45:36] with respect to, uh, [45:39] the physical things. Like for example, it is not untrue with respect to, [45:45] refined rare earth. It's not untrue when it relates to bullets, [45:52] bombs. Um, I think that's generally not untrue to the extent that the, [45:57] the opposition can't, and other parties can't therefore create their own, [46:03] is generally not untrue. The other side of the argument is that [46:09] if our goal is to optimize for long-term national security, long-term, [46:16] long-term domestic tranquility and harmony, [46:20] then prosperity is the best way to do that. The safest countries in the world are [46:27] the richest countries. The reason why United States is so powerful militarily [46:32] is because we have extraordinary wealth, [46:35] and that extraordinary wealth came along with extraordinary technology, and that technology [46:39] and wealth becomes a flywheel, [46:42] and that flywheel is ultimately what you're optimizing for. So the question [46:46] is, are you optimizing for someone else not having access to this technology, [46:52] or are you optimizing for a flywheel? [46:54] - Mm-hmm. [46:55] - And I suggest that a more sophisticated long-term [46:58] strategy is to optimize for a flywheel. And in order to optimize for that flywheel, [47:04] you have to have both simultaneously technology leadership and wealth. [47:11] That flywheel is really important. This is no different than, you know, a lot [47:14] of computing technologies and platform technologies. The, [47:19] the concept of wealth is basically customer engagements and installed base, and [47:26] that installed base and customer usage drives more [47:29] consumption of your technology, which then drives more wealth, which allows you [47:33] to scale your technology faster than anyone. And so, this concept of [47:40] flywheel, which comes along with technology leadership, [47:44] economic leadership, which fuels technology leadership, which drives more economic [47:48] leadership, and that flywheel is what causes [47:53] companies and countries to stay ahead. And so my... I would suggest that [48:00] instead of finite things that are concrete and has no, [48:06] no positive feedback system that creates, uh, I would advocate that [48:13] the better strategy is to be quite extremely [48:17] selective, extremely selective about access to, [48:21] certain technologies. But aside from that, balance that [48:25] with optimizing for that technology- ... and economic flywheel. [48:29] - I think- - So there's a balance [48:30] - ... I think the question is, [48:32] does America flourish if that flywheel includes China or doesn't include China? [48:38] That's the open question for America and the open question for humanity. [48:41] There's a line that's crossed when two nations are competing as- [48:48] You can even say geopolitically friends competing [48:52] versus becoming enemies competing. And there's a [48:56] line, and once you cross that line, you, I think, [49:00] have the potential to destroy everybody's flywheel. [49:04] - That's right. I would say that we should do everything we can [49:10] to avoid conflict. We should compete. That we can't do without. And... [49:18] But we should do everything we can to avoid conflict. And, and so the question [49:22] is, is therefore if you have relationships [49:26] that are competitive, there are strategies that cause that relationship [49:32] to lead towards conflict, and there are strategies to avoid conflict. [49:38] - I think that to the degree there's interdependence is something you and I [49:41] talked about amongst, let's say, AI stacks. Everybody's using the [49:47] same hardware. Everyone's using the same software. [49:50] Everybody's going to each other's universities. There's friendships. There's [49:54] scientific collaborations. [49:56] There's friendly competition amongst different companies, but nevertheless, [50:00] it's, it really fundamentally is collaboration. The more of that we have, [50:05] the harder it is to actually divide the two different peoples [50:09] in order to then have a, something like a global conflict. [50:14] - The harder it is to decouple, [50:17] the harder it is to have conflict, and I agree with that. Now, [50:21] one of the things that, [50:22] that is helpful, and just now the way you described it is absolutely right. [50:27] In fact, AI is not a model. AI is a whole stack of technologies, and [50:35] they're all contributing to AI. You can't have AI without energy. [50:38] - Mm-hmm. [50:40] - And, and we know that, [50:44] certain countries and certain regions have extraordinary leadership [50:48] and capabilities in energy while others don't. And so if you keep [50:52] going up and down that stack, you'll notice, you observe [50:56] that depending on where you're talking about leadership is happening [51:00] in different places. [51:01] - Jensen and I, as proud Americans, I personally believe [51:07] that America has the most innovative [51:13] people, like the craziest, wildest, out there, big, big [51:17] moonshot ideas. I think America's at the top of the world in doing that. [51:21] So as you find- [51:23] - Well, NVIDIA's an American company. [51:24] - Yeah. [51:25] - Uh, Anthropic, OpenAI, you know, Google. There, there are just so many, [51:31] so much overwhelming evidence that what you're saying is absolutely right. [51:35] The compounded chemistry that leads to this innovation capability over time- [51:45] - Mm-hmm. [51:45] - ... is overwhelming. One of the, one of the overwhelming [51:49] advantages that we have is that our flywheel is also the best. [51:53] And the reason for that is because the vast majority of the world responds to [51:57] English. [51:59] And so if you're an American company and you build on an American tech stack [52:03] using American standards, you're fairly deployable throughout the world. [52:08] - Mm-hmm. [52:09] - That's not true with China. And so we have a global [52:12] flywheel advantage. Technology without customers is useless. [52:17] - Yeah. You have to use that advantage. You don't take for granted your [52:21] advantage. There is a global power to English as a [52:24] language. It's just the way that America is able to [52:28] create an ecosystem that's used by everybody. That's a real, real [52:32] advantage. So closing yourself off from the rest of the world [52:36] for sort of the benefits you do get from isolationism, there's a real cost to that. [52:42] - Exactly. [52:42] - You lose that advantage. [52:43] - Exactly. Which is exactly the reason why I believe that [52:48] on the one hand, we want to keep great technology to ourselves. On [52:52] the other hand, we need that flywheel. We need exactly the sentence that you [52:56] applied just now, every single word of it. [52:59] And so we want to have as much platform reach as possible because it [53:03] generates that flywheel, which generates the wealth, which generates our [53:07] R&D capacity to continue to innovate. [53:10] - Mm-hmm. [53:12] - Now, that flywheel is also really delicate. You could see flywheels, [53:16] once it gets going, it becomes, you know, a bit of an exponential. And platform [53:24] quickly seems like overnight after being built for [53:28] a decade, two decades, in our case, three decades, all of a sudden it reaches a [53:32] tipping point and it's everywhere. [53:34] - Mm-hmm. [53:35] - On the other hand, that flywheel can stop and it could, you know, it could slow [53:38] down very quickly. And so I... [53:43] The question about export controls is just this balance. [53:47] And every country deserves, every country has the right for the [53:50] technologies that the capabilities or the asset, the resources that they've created [53:54] for, you know, as part of their national advantage, they have the right to decide how they [53:58] want to use it. And I, and, and that's a, that's a sovereign right. That's a [54:02] national right. On the other hand, we also want to make sure that the national [54:07] treasure of the United States, which the technology industry is part of, [54:11] that national treasure has the largest possible flywheel, the largest possible [54:15] platform reach so that we can sustain that, you know, [54:19] that economic and technology leadership flywheel. So that's the balance. [54:23] - And at the end of the day, as we've been sharing a lot of food, I think we have to [54:27] remember that all the humans all across [54:31] the world, we have a lot more in common than we have that's different. [54:35] And it's good to understand each other, to collaborate, [54:39] to be friends with each other, to work together and compete as friends versus, [54:44] dividing each other and making enemies of each other. [54:46] - And when you travel, you really get hit with that. [54:50] - Especially when you hitchhike. [54:52] - Especially when you hitchhike. You realize that so much. Yeah. [54:56] - Jensen, thank you so much for the delicious food. This is amazing. [54:58] - How fun was that? - That was fun. [55:00] - How fun was that? [55:00] - And maybe some night market tonight as well. [55:02] - Oh, o- - Can't wait [55:03] - ... okay. I'm gonna take you to a different one. [55:04] - Yeah. - I'll take you to a d- [55:05] - Even crazier. - Yeah. This is g- [55:06] - Even crazier. - It's gonna be incredible. [55:07] - Okay. Yeah, what you doing with Lex? [55:11] - Oh, God. [55:13] - Good to see you. Hey, Mark. Good to see you. [55:15] - Good to see you. [55:16] - Come on, Christian. Let's go. [55:19] - Not even rain can stop Jensen. [55:21] - Where did you grow up? [55:22] - Taiwan. [55:22] - We both grew up in Taiwan. Let's go. Come on. [55:25] - Hi, Christian. - Excuse me. I'm Lex. [55:26] - Hi, Christian. - Good to meet you. Yeah. [55:27] - Come on. We'll just go wander around. Lex was- [55:31] - Oh, yeah. It was nuts. [55:32] - ... overwhelmed. [55:33] - It was nuts. [55:39] Morris, the founder of TSMC. [55:41] - Okay. - Jensen. [55:42] - That's awesome. [55:42] - Have you guys been to this place? [55:44] - No. [55:44] - This is, you know, generally believed to be the best one. [55:50] So you just wanted to make it clear to me that I've never had this. [55:55] - Maybe. The spicy one as well. [55:58] - Tell me that chicken is not so tender. [56:00] - This chicken is really good. [56:01] - Amazing. [56:02] - This is the essential... Okay, okay. [56:05] I'm no longer just tasting. This is... Oh, my God. [56:07] - No, no, no. You're still tasting. [56:09] - You're still tasting. [56:10] - You're still tasting. [56:11] - You're still tasting. [56:17] - Incredible. With a... Almost like a barbecue smoky sauce. [56:26] They know what they're doing with the omelet. Like, the way the eggs are used in the [56:30] various dishes is amazing. [56:31] - In Southeast Asia, [56:32] in Southeast Asia, there's egg in everything. It is just the cheapest source of protein. [56:36] They add egg to everything. Egg to pancake. [56:41] - Jensen. - Egg to oyster. Yeah? [56:42] - I heard you make amazing fried rice. [56:44] - I do. - Mm-hmm. [56:45] - I watch videos on AI and fried rice. [56:50] - It's absolutely true. That's his whole algorithm. He's working and I hear the [56:54] - I have AI. I have fried rice. I got geopolitics. I have dogs. [57:00] - Yeah. [57:00] - And panda bears. [57:02] - Otters. - Somehow- [57:03] - Otters. - Otters. [57:04] - Oh, I call other otters. [57:05] - So I watch some geopolitics. [57:07] - Mm-hmm. [57:08] - And then I gotta go directly to pandas and otters. [57:13] Just to recover. [57:15] - Yeah. Oh, this is- [57:18] - Sorry. Keep going. [57:21] - I think that's a statement of like, "You need help, my friend." It's [57:25] okay. It's okay. Poor soul. [57:29] - You don't have something like that in San Francisco. I grew up on that. [57:33] This, my mom made this, like, practically every week. [57:39] - This is very nice. [57:41] - Yeah. How good is that? [57:45] - Amazing. [57:45] - It's gotta be fresh ginger. [57:48] - Mm-hmm. Fresh with some ginger in it. [57:52] - Yeah. It's so good, right? [57:53] - Oh, wow. Okay. [57:54] - It's a whole vibe. Asian food is all about the soup. [58:00] Women were going, "Lex, Lex, Lex." Basically the world's restaurant. [58:06] - Mm-hmm. [58:07] - First of all- [58:08] - It worked well. [58:09] - ... there is no no. You know, you say no to everything. [58:13] - Yeah. [58:13] - The apps are coming. [58:14] - Mm-hmm. [58:16] - If you say three, then it's four. [58:18] - It's four. - Yeah. [58:19] - If we ate everything, [58:21] I mean, they'd feel bad. They're gonna have to bring more stuff. [58:23] - Yeah. It's not a winnable game. [58:25] - No. [58:26] Depending on the culture, depending on the culture, if you don't eat everything, it's rude. [58:30] - Mm-hmm. [58:31] - And in some cultures, if you eat everything, it's rude. [58:34] So you're either competing for their generosity or competing for [58:39] your appreciation for their food. [58:44] And they're both important, but depending on culture, one's more important than the [58:48] other. So in this culture, their generosity is more important than your appreciation for the food. [58:52] - Yeah. [58:53] - Mm-hmm. That's a kind of optimization problem. [58:55] - It's... Yeah. So you just gotta know which country you're in. [58:58] - You gotta figure out the objective function based on country. [59:00] - That's right. - Conditional country. [59:01] - No. We gotta figure out which country... I bet in France you gotta eat everything, [59:05] so we'd be here all night. [59:06] - Right. [59:07] - That's why the dinners are three hours. [59:08] - Yeah, we gotta pound it down. [59:09] - They're forever. - Yeah, yeah. [59:11] - Even with the rain. [59:23] - Do we still have Lex? [59:24] - Yeah, right here. [59:25] - You guys should keep him on a running leash. [59:27] - Delicious. Probably the most- [59:28] - We don't wanna, didn't lose the white guy. [59:32] - I think I'm famous for being the white guy here. [59:35] - Nobody is- - The so- [59:36] - ... loving Taiwan more than Lex. [59:39] - Yeah, exactly. I'm in love. [59:41] - Yeah, we love Lex too. [59:42] - Come on, Lex. - Okay, let's go. [59:45] - I got the whole... [59:46] - Here we go. There we go. [59:47] - Hello. Hey. Hello. [59:51] - I'll take two. Is two okay? - Sure, two. [59:58] This is egg crepe with sausage. [60:01] - What are we looking at here? [60:02] - Imagine a corn dog, but Taiwanese style. [60:05] - It's all about the eggs. [60:06] - Look at this. It's a corn dog, essentially. [60:10] - There we go. [60:10] - A universal, it's a universal concept. You got a hot dog, you got a corn dog. [60:17] - You can't AI generate this. [60:23] Nice. [60:26] - This one's the best. - How much is this one? [60:29] - This one's 80. [60:31] - Only 80? - Yes, 80. [60:35] - Okay. This looks incredible. [60:37] - Oh, this makes no sense. [60:40] - Amazing. [60:41] - We're gonna put ice cream- [60:42] - Yeah. [60:43] - ... that's rice paper, and cilantro. Where does the cilantro make sense? [60:49] - And you're saying somehow this is gonna taste good, you're saying? [60:50] - Incredible. [60:51] - It smells good. It smells really good. Whatever that is, it smells really good. [60:56] - First time in Taiwan. [60:58] - Wow. [61:00] - Texas to Taiwan. [61:02] - Yeah. A little different. [61:02] - Different planets, Lex. I think we're all in Jensen's simulation. [61:06] - Yeah. - Yeah. [61:07] - Yeah, yeah. I don't think we're the main players in this one. [61:10] Just be your best NPC right now. [61:12] - The beauty sphere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [61:13] - That's what... [61:15] I was like, "What would an NPC do?" That's what I've been doing. All right, let's try this thing. [61:23] - Is it good? [61:24] - It's so good. [61:27] - He's right. It doesn't make any sense. It's ice cream, cilantro, nuts. [61:34] It's soft and chewy. [61:37] - Great job, Lex. [61:38] - Thank you. I really appreciate it. It's delicious. I [61:46] don't think I've ever had an ice cream in a tortilla- [61:51] - Madness. [61:52] - ... with a vegetable, but it's delicious. Makes no sense, but it's delicious. [62:03] I think we're no longer sampling. I think we're eating at this point. [62:06] - I know. - Doesn't make any sense. [62:07] - But the ice cream is very needed. [62:08] - Yeah, it is. It's really refreshing. [62:10] - Yeah, we're gonna go get some- [62:11] - Mangoes. [62:12] - ... green mangoes. Lex, green mangoes. [62:15] - We must. [62:16] - Okay? Green mangoes. [62:16] - I didn't even know that was a thing. [62:18] - Green mangoes, and it's not that it's unripe. It's ripe. [62:21] - Yeah. - It's just green. [62:23] - Okay. - It's like an apple- [62:24] - Uh-huh. [62:25] - ... and a pear and a mango- ... giving birth to a green mango. [62:33] - This island makes semiconductors and fruit. [62:36] - And fruit. [62:39] Hey, where's my sausage? This, you guys, [62:46] this is way too good. [62:49] Just gotta take a bite. [62:52] - This doesn't count. It's not... We're not having... We're not eating. [62:54] We're just sampling. [62:55] - This is about sampling. That is insanely good right here. [62:59] - These are taro balls. [63:00] - That is insanely good. And you know what? We, I grew up eating pork floss. [63:04] - Mm-hmm. [63:05] - Oh, it's so good on rice. [63:06] - Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It makes- [63:08] - Yeah, it looks similar to that. [63:10] - ... its marketing is a issue. [63:12] - Yeah. - In whatever- [63:13] - Naming is an area. [63:14] - Naming is the issue. [63:14] - Yeah, yeah. Taiwan's not very good at marketing. [63:24] Pork floss. [63:25] - I know. [63:27] - Pork floss. [63:29] - Or, or bubble gum in America. [63:30] - Yeah. [63:31] - I just eat it with- You just eat it with... [63:36] - Wow. - Look at that. [63:38] - Gorgeous. [63:38] - It's onion pancakes. Onion pancakes, [63:44] and it's mostly oil. That is, that is the number one ingredient. [63:48] - Yeah, 90% oil- [63:50] - 90%... - ... 10% egg. [63:51] - Look at that. Oh. [63:56] - She knows what she's doing. Yeah, yeah. [63:58] - Probably been making this for years. [63:59] - There goes your diet, guys. I did gain probably 10 pounds already on this trip. [64:04] - Just on this trip. Yeah, yeah. [64:06] - Lex is so... He really does. He's disciplined. He tastes. [64:11] - Yeah. [64:11] - I save. Let's just taste, don't eat. [64:14] - Yeah, yeah. - But I eat. [64:15] - We ate some delicious pig's feet. [64:16] - Oh, yum. [64:17] - Again, branding issue. The name doesn't sound good- ... but it was [64:21] delicious. Of course- [64:22] - I only mean it. [64:23] - ... OpenAI is known for naming everything so clearly- ... and perfectly. [64:26] - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [64:27] - Làjiāo biǎoqiàn. [64:28] - Just throw some random numbers on it. And people will figure it out. [64:32] - As long as the numbers go up, it's all better. [64:33] - Yeah, just go up. Numbers go up. [64:39] - The perfect combination. [64:41] - Look at that. No, it looks delicious. [64:43] - Wow. Wow. [64:51] - Is this one good? - Good. [64:53] - And this one? - Good. [64:56] - Okay. Oh, [64:58] - Yeah. He's basically put everything on it. [65:00] - I put everything on it. [65:01] - One of the... These are the sesame balls. [65:03] - Oh, they're so good. [65:04] - He put everything on it. - I made this. [65:06] - Wow. That's a everything ball right there. [65:09] - All right, this is the sesame ball. [65:11] - The tofu underneath, you see this? [65:13] - So it's really chewy on the outside, almost doughy on the outside. [65:17] - This right here- [65:18] - With sesame type things in these. What? [65:20] - Tofu. - Yeah. [65:21] - This- - Oh, interesting. [65:22] - ... this is the jam. [65:25] - It's so windy. You gotta try each of these. So this is a qingcao and this is a cai. [65:30] They're like, um- [65:31] - And this is qingcao. [65:33] - Grass jelly. [65:34] - Now, people think- - Good naming. [65:36] - ... people think that you make the grass jelly. You squeeze it out of the plant and it is [65:40] there. [65:41] - Is that real? - It's real. [65:43] - Okay. [65:44] - Grass jelly is not made. [65:47] - It's not too sweet. [65:47] - Yeah, yeah. [65:48] - Really nice jello. [65:50] - Did you say not too sweet? Not too sweet. [65:52] - Not too sweet. [65:53] - It's the ultimate compliment. [65:55] - All right, let's try this tofu one. This apparently is tofu. [66:00] - Tofu. It's a drink. [66:01] - Mm-hmm. [66:02] - It's milk in the morning. [66:03] - Mm-hmm. [66:04] - You could fry it. You could braise it. [66:06] - Mm-hmm. - You could boil it. [66:07] - This is really good. [66:09] - This is like bubble gum shrimp. [66:10] - Mm-hmm. Mm. What's the yellow thing? [66:16] - It's a- - Do we know? [66:17] - It's like a yam- Yeah ... thing, and that's taro. [66:22] - And again, this doughy, chewy thing on the outside. This is incredible. [66:25] - Part of it, part of it is, of course, for the taste. Part of it is for the texture. [66:31] - Mm-hmm. [66:32] - And one of the important textures is [66:35] QQ, a phrase for the texture of something bouncy. Like, for example- [66:40] - Like the sesame balls. [66:42] - ... like this. It's a little QQ. Udon noodle, QQ. [66:47] - Mm-hmm. [66:47] - Chewy texture. [66:49] - Needs to have some elasticity. [66:50] - Mm-hmm. [66:52] Like, the noodles that have some, some of that chewiness are the best noodles. [66:55] - QQ? [66:55] - And you say QQ. [66:56] - QQ. Okay. So that's a compliment for a noodle. [66:59] - QQ. - Oh, yeah. [67:00] - QQ. - Yeah. [67:01] - They brushed with a little hot sauce. [67:03] - Oh, yeah. It's nice. [67:07] That's why I like it so much. That's why it is so good. I'm not gonna finish it. [67:11] - What the hell? Gosh, this- [67:17] - No, I'm not gonna eat it. I'm not gonna- [67:19] - No, yeah, yeah. [67:20] - It's good, right? [67:21] - If you don't finish it, it doesn't really count. [67:24] - Wow. Lex? [67:26] - Yes. [67:29] - Where's Mark? Oh, hey. [67:33] - Back up, guys. Away from the front of the car. [67:35] - No problem. No problem. Thank you. No problem. [67:39] - So good. [67:50] Oh. The powder. Sweet and sour together with the pear. Sweet and sour powder. [67:55] Oh, incredible. [68:01] - Have you had the red one? [68:03] - Mm-mm, not yet. [68:03] - I'll get it going. [68:06] - Not yet, not yet, not yet. Thank you. Thank you. Mm, mm, mm, mm, mm. [68:12] - Good? [68:18] - The powder. - It's so good. [68:33] - This is amazing. [68:35] - Oh, you should eat this. [68:36] - Mm-hmm. [68:37] - Oh. [68:38] - What is it? [68:40] - We have a... [68:41] - Yeah. [68:42] - What is it? What is it? [68:43] - Durian. [68:44] - New York- [68:45] - Durian. Durian. Durian. Yeah, that's my favorite. I love durian. [68:49] - I mean, dur- ma- [68:52] - You'll love it and you'll hate it. [68:53] - Okay. Thank you, thank you. Durian. [68:58] - Durian. They remade durian. It's an acquired taste apparently. [69:08] Mm. It smells. It's sweet, [69:13] but it's... [69:16] It's actually quite good, but it smells. It smells really bad- [69:19] - I know. It's grotesque. - ... but it tastes really good. [69:20] - It's... Well, exactly. [69:22] - Yeah. [69:22] - It smells grotesque. [69:25] - Mm. Okay. I get it. I get it. But it tastes really good- [69:30] - Yeah. [69:31] - ... which is fascinating. [69:37] I don't know. My brain can't make sense of it, 'cause it tastes really good. [69:39] - Yeah. Whatever is that- [69:40] - But it smells really bad. Nature played a little trick. [69:49] Plums? Oh, this is gonna be very good. [69:55] Oh, boy. [70:02] Really nice plum. It's a plum. It's, like, a small plum, I think. [70:08] That's incredible. Thank you. [70:16] When did your relationship with Morris start, when you came back to Taiwan? [70:20] - Yeah, so we were looking for a foundry. And at the time, the foundry [70:24] industry was really... [70:29] - We're, by the way, having Taiwanese breakfast. [70:31] - Breakfast. [70:34] - Early morning. [70:35] - Cheers. And so, [70:38] so we were looking for a foundry. Back then, everybody wanted a foundry. [70:42] Um, NEC, Toshiba, Fujitsu, Hewlett-Packard. Uh, [70:50] because the PC revolution had started. [70:53] So Windows 95 had just come out. Line, remember, lines [70:57] were wrapped around the block, people waiting to buy a box, the operating system. [71:03] - Yeah, that moment on stage in the keynote when you're looking back at Windows 95. [71:08] - That was the moment I- [71:09] - Just the years just all flew by. Just all the memories just flew by. [71:13] - Yeah. - Thank you. [71:16] - Try that. - What is it? [71:19] - Cold soy bean milk. Because most Asians are lactose intolerant. [71:24] - How are you liking your breakfast? [71:27] - It's worth it 1,000%. This is cold soy milk. [71:32] - All right, so this is the salty version. [71:35] - Uh-huh. [71:35] - Now, this is in here. Okay? [71:37] - This is the sweet version, this is the salty version. [71:41] - Hot salty version. Can we have some more spoons? Sure this one, but Lex... [71:47] - So you said, yeah, you were looking for a foundry. Just telling the story of how you [71:51] first returned back to Taiwan- [71:54] - I see, I see. [71:55] - ... and built the relation with TSMC. You know, Windows 95. [72:00] - This is too important. This is too important to me. [72:02] - TSMC or that? [72:03] - No, I can't talk. [72:04] - Okay, yeah. - This- [72:06] - Priorities in life. [72:08] - Lex, I will share this with you in a second, but this is too important to me. [72:13] - There we go. [72:23] - Oh, this is my favorite. [72:25] - Oh, okay. Do they make soup like that? No? [72:31] - It's just, you know, another version. It's rice. [72:40] - That is so good. [72:41] - Stupid good, right? [72:45] - So this is, I think, tofu, of course with an amazing broth. [72:51] - And a fried donut. [72:53] - Fried donut. [72:54] - Yeah, that's a donut. [72:55] - A fried donut. Look at that. Yes. [72:58] - Okay. - History. [72:59] - Wow. Pork floss, your favorite. Rice, pork floss- [73:03] - Uh-huh. [73:04] - ... pickled vegetables, salty, and of course you need eggs. [73:08] - Cheers. - Cheers. [73:09] - Thank you. [73:10] - Cheers. [73:11] - Showing you guys the ropes. [73:12] - Yeah, yeah. [73:15] - Right? - No way. [73:17] - I know. [73:18] - It's pork floss. [73:19] - Pork floss with egg, wrapped in a- I mean, sticky rice, essentially. [73:28] - Marketing at its best. [73:30] - Really good. [73:32] - Floss. What is that? Pork floss. [73:39] Right? [73:39] - I don't think I've... [73:42] This is one of the best things I've ever had, the cha mu. This is incredible. [73:46] - Oh, yeah. Thank you. Jim. [73:55] Here we go. [74:00] - What does this classify as? [74:03] - A donut. [74:04] - So this is a donut. [74:05] - Deep fried- - Hawaiian donut. [74:06] - ... deep fried donut. [74:12] - Dip it in the broth. [74:13] - And don- not too many... Remember, [74:19] it's not gonna help you if you... When the hot soy comes, that's what you [74:24] really dip it in. [74:35] - It's nice and airy, fluffy, but crunchy on the outside. They [74:39] know what they're doing. [74:46] - Wow. Oh, my God. [74:51] - What's in there? Tofu, egg. Well, we'll find out. [74:54] - Add a little sesame. [74:55] - And there's sesame outside. [74:57] - Do you like it? [74:59] - Look at that diamond ring. Good God. Beautiful. Oh, he's good. Isn't it? Oh, boy. [75:10] - Okay. [75:10] - Okay. [75:17] - The sesame adds, right? [75:18] - Yeah, mm-hmm. [75:20] - Usually when you guys see sesame seeds, I think it's just sprinkling for- [75:23] - Yeah. [75:23] - ... look good. This adds. I think it's the smell. [75:28] - Uh-huh. That's right. That's right. [75:30] - Mm-hmm. Mm. [75:32] - It's almost like a smokiness to it or something. [75:33] - Yeah. This is steamed buns. [75:38] Okay? There's a little something on the inside. [75:41] - Super soft on the outside. [75:44] - That's so good. - I know. [75:50] - And so you guys must have met a long time ago. Went to the same [75:54] group. Yeah. Yeah. It's a long time. I know. [75:58] - Our school was inside the China Mall, so all... We [76:02] were surrounded by everyone in the Chinese school growing up. [76:12] - So that's- [76:12] - This is turnip cake. [76:13] - Turnip cake? [76:15] - Turnip cake. [76:15] - Turnip, turnip. Yeah, turnip. [76:16] - Yeah. [76:17] - Yeah, it's great. It's actually really good. Again, a branding issue- [76:21] - Yeah. [76:25] - ... but you're gonna love it. [76:27] - How's the garlic that- [76:29] - Very garlicky, but it is incredibly delicious. You can do it. If you... Yeah. [76:35] - I... [76:37] - Lori's not a garlic person. [76:42] That garlic sauce, you guys, guys, if you guys are okay with garlic, [76:48] this is so good. [76:49] - It's great. It's so good. [76:55] The bottom. [76:58] Right now that my mouth is on fire, having that heat is gonna really help. [77:06] And that's sarcastically, 'cause- Mm-hmm. [77:09] - Nice, right? - Yeah. [77:10] - Pure. This shop is good. [77:16] - The heat is brilliant on this. [77:18] - Yeah. [77:19] - Oh. Ooh. Well, it has a... The way they cooked it, it has a, almost like a potato- [77:25] - Mm-hmm. In 1996, [77:30] PC revolution's just taken off. The industry, the PC chipsets- [77:37] - Yeah. [77:38] - ... the chipset industry name came out during that time. [77:43] The fabless semiconductor industry was born. [77:48] Cirrus Logic was the giant, [77:50] S3, [77:54] big small... Weitek, the small one. Western Digital used to make graphics chips. [77:58] - Uh-huh. [77:59] - I competed with all kinds of people. All the foundries was super... [78:11] - They're not playing around. [78:12] - I'm telling you the story later. [78:16] - No, you just continue. [78:17] - This is- - It's just- [78:18] - We're in a battlefield right now in this. We're in here. [78:22] - There you go. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. [78:27] - So I'm kind of really- [78:27] - Yeah, this is a good one. This is a good one. [78:29] - Yeah. - That's a pretty good one. [78:30] - Yeah. And even by this standard, excuse me, [78:36] this, by this dish standard. [78:38] - Oh, okay. [78:39] - My God, it's 90. [78:40] - I know, I know, right? - All right. [78:47] - You guys came back in '96. [78:51] - That's right. [78:52] - All right. Let's try this. [78:55] - That's really good. Basic, but extremely good. Well done. Can you reach? [79:03] - All right. Got... That's right. There you go. That's the next part. [79:06] - Yeah. Yeah, there you go. Back up. [79:08] - So the challenge is picking it up- [79:09] - Yeah. - ... without breaking it. [79:11] - Yeah, that's what... And I failed that miserably. Oh, that's perfection right there. [79:14] - So there's a soup dumpling. [79:15] - Uh-huh. [79:16] - There's soup inside. [79:17] - Uh-huh. [79:18] - And of course, everybody's trying to figure out, how did you insert soup [79:22] inside? Just start off- [79:24] - It's a great mystery. [79:26] Yeah, but how does it not spill out? I mean, I guess they know what they're doing. [79:30] - Well, they did a good job what they're doing, yeah. [79:31] - I think in the last 20 minutes we've gotten through one year. [79:36] Windows 95 got released. [79:37] - But we had 14 dishes I think. [79:39] - Yeah. We did good. We did good. [79:41] - So the foundries, Japan got into the foundry business. [79:48] Almost everybody and in the United States [79:52] there were very few foundries because Intel was really focused on building [79:56] their own products. [79:58] AMD was building their own products, TI building their own products, [80:03] and so the foundries, the other countries, the other chip companies from other countries [80:07] got into the foundry business to try to serve this chipset industry. [80:12] SGS-Thomson was a foundry. We went to SGS-Thomson first, and [80:18] they weren't willing to take our business. [80:20] At the time, there was so little foundry capacity, if you wanted to, [80:24] if you wanted to use somebody's foundry, you had to license your technology to them. [80:28] - Mm-hmm. [80:29] - That was one of the, one of the, you know, requirements. And kind of reminds me of, [80:36] of some of the, the early deals with, with AI companies. You [80:40] want to access the capacity, you have to license something away. [80:43] - Mm-hmm. [80:44] - You know? And so back in my generation, we had to license our IP [80:48] to foundries. Well, TSMC, I heard about this company in Taiwan, [80:52] TSMC, and UMC at the time. [80:54] - Mm-hmm. [80:55] - And you know, they had [80:57] no, no strings attached. And just, they were, of course, quite poor [81:01] companies themselves. [81:01] - Mm-hmm. [81:02] - And they were barely making it. I think TSMC was probably about $300 million [81:06] company at the time, $300 million. Sounded like $300 billion, not $300 million. [81:11] And, and, um- [81:12] - Wow. [81:13] - ... tiny little company. And, and I heard about, about them [81:16] and heard about Morris Chang. And so I try to call their US office. They had a, [81:23] back in the old days, it was Yellow Pages. [81:25] I look it up, it's a TSMC. There's a number there, and I call [81:29] their number, and it's a recording. [81:32] You know? You, you're, what, what kind of company you called has a recording? They [81:36] never- And I, so I left my name and my number and, you know, [81:40] and said a few things about NVIDIA. You know, we're a new startup company [81:44] building computer graphics chips, and- [81:47] - You know, that voice message is probably worth, like, a lot now. [81:51] - Exactly. [81:52] - "Hi, my name is Jensen." [81:54] - Exactly. [81:55] - "We're a new startup." [81:56] - Imagine if I have somebody calling me back, you know? And, and I called several times. [82:00] Nobody called me. Nobody called me back. [82:02] - Yeah. [82:03] - And so I finally wrote a letter to Morris, and so I wrote a long letter and [82:11] sent it to him. Didn't hear anything for a long time, and then one day [82:16] it was kind of around maybe 6:00 or so, maybe 6:30 or so. [82:21] This person calls and says, "Uh, this is Morris Chang from TSMC." [82:24] - Wow. [82:26] - And meanwhile, everybody outside my office were playing video games. [82:31] - Mm-hmm. [82:31] - And they're all laughing and screaming, and you know, I think they were playing PlayStation, [82:35] the first PlayStation at the time. Everybody's laughing and screaming. I said, "Hey, [82:39] guys, shut up. It's Morris Chang." [82:41] You know, called me back. And so I was so happy that a, that a [82:45] founder would actually call us back, you know, because, hey, we're not- Maybe we won't have to [82:49] die. [82:50] - Yeah. Wow. [82:50] - And, and so, and so we talked, and he invited me to Taiwan, and [82:56] so I came back to Taiwan for the first time. [82:57] - And that was your, that was your, after many years- [83:01] - First journey back 30 years. [83:03] - And that was the start [83:05] of everything, not just that partnership, but just the whole industry really. [83:08] - TSMC and UMC, their primary competitor, literally across the- across a street. [83:13] - Mm-hmm. [83:14] - One street. That street, you know, is a street inside a campus. [83:17] And so it's like the other building. I visited, visited [83:24] UMC and then I visited TSMC, in that order. Both companies super gracious, [83:30] super happy that they were willing to talk to us. [83:34] And, and when I spoke to UMC, I, [83:40] I, you know, people ask me, well, why did I ended up choosing TSMC instead of UMC? [83:45] And the reason was because I like both companies equally. They're both [83:49] excellent companies. But the thing that I really liked about TSMC was, [83:53] was there were a lot of things that I said that Morris said, "We can't do that." [83:59] - Mm-hmm. [84:00] - And I'll say, "What about that?" "We can't do that." There's a lot of things that they, [84:04] they just can't do. [84:07] And so he had a philosophy about his business, and he had a, he had [84:11] a, you know, he has a set of core values that he cares about. [84:15] And he spent all of his time talking about corporate governance and, [84:18] and uh, integrity and- [84:21] - Mm-hmm. [84:22] - ... You know, partnership and thinking long term. [84:26] And, and not once did he talk about, you know, anything else. [84:29] - Mm-hmm. [84:29] - And so, and, and he said, he said one thing. He said, "Jensen, if we were [84:34] to work together, I promise you we would jump through hoops for you." [84:38] And for the whole time, 30 years, they've been jumping through hoops for us. [84:42] - Yeah. He kept his word. [84:43] - The core values of that company's really, really strong. It was there from the very beginning. [84:47] And you gotta go through thick and thins and, you know, there are a lot of un- [84:51] unpredictable things in the future. And it's because you're [84:56] building a chip together. It's a foundry. It's not exactly like buying something off the [85:00] shelf. You're building a chip together, and it's really hard to build chips. And so, [85:04] so it's impossible to know all the details. It's impossible to make all [85:08] the decisions up front. You really are choosing not [85:12] what to buy, but who to work with. [85:14] - Mm-hmm. [85:15] - And so I was smart about making that decision. It wasn't about what to buy. [85:19] It's about who you're choosing to work with. [85:22] - Mm-hmm. [85:22] - And, and uh, that attitude, that philosophy about [85:26] choosing who to work with has lasted for me to this day. [85:30] - But also in the, in the technology industry, the remarkable thing is not [85:34] just choosing who to work with- is choosing to work with them for decades. [85:39] - Yeah. [85:39] - Like the loyalty of a relationship. [85:42] - We've been working with TSMC now for 30 years. It's like, we understand. Okay. [85:46] - Mm-hmm. [85:47] - Let's go. That's it. For 30 years. [85:52] And the reason that it's wisdom is because how do you capture [85:56] in advance all the unknowns- [85:59] - Right. [85:59] - ... in a relationship? It's like, it's like ha- you know, it's like writing up a [86:04] ironclad [86:06] prenup or something, you know? The problem is, is the more specific you want [86:10] it to become, the more brittle that relationship's gonna be. And so I had the [86:15] wisdom of keeping it nice and loose, [86:18] discover our way there, rough justice. We use this phrase rough [86:22] justice. Sometimes they win, sometimes I win. [86:24] - Mm-hmm. [86:25] - We don't... Sometimes I like, like, you know, how things worked out better than they [86:29] did. Sometimes they like it better than I did. Over the course of time it all works [86:33] out. [86:34] - Does that make sense to you why TSMC is as legendary as they are? [86:38] - Yeah, absolutely. [86:40] - That's right. - Absolutely. [86:41] - Good. [86:41] - I think that the way I work with them, I don't know if everybody works with them that [86:45] way. I wouldn't be surprised if many people do. [86:48] But I prefer to work with people this way, which is, which is... A- and look at [86:52] all the employees of the company. I don't have ironclad contracts with them. [86:57] You know, we choose to work with each other. [86:59] - Mm-hmm. [86:59] - It's not always gonna be, [87:01] you know, once... It's not always gonna be completely fair. Sometimes it's a little [87:05] one-sided. But over the course of time, the rough justice works out, you know? [87:08] - And it makes everybody work, like step up. When you, when you both choose- [87:13] - Yeah [87:13] - ... to work together, step up. [87:15] - They need to know, they need to know that you want them to win. [87:18] All my employees know I want them to win. TSMC knows I want them to win. [87:22] Every single day TSMC knows I want them to win. [87:25] You know? And so it comes through in our partnership, it comes through in our business [87:29] dealings, it comes through in me always helping them [87:33] be in a better company. And they're always doing the same for me. You're not [87:37] buying something. You're deciding to build something together. [87:40] - Mm-hmm. [87:41] - And our company's built on top of the TSMC platform. Our company's [87:45] built on top of the Taiwan platform. And so these relationships matter. [87:51] You know, you do something just because, you know, you got upset or [87:58] you just wanna make everybody bid for your business or, you know, [88:01] everybody, nobody makes any money but you. Those kind [88:05] of... It is remembered on the island forever and everybody knows it. [88:11] And so always leave something on the table. Always let them... You know, always be [88:15] thinking about other people's sustainability and their success. Nothing gives me [88:19] more pleasure than last year when my entire supply chain's stock [88:22] price went up 300%, mine stayed flat. Now, [88:27] the fact that that happened is not something that I'm [88:31] happy about, but it's because our platform is so large everybody could [88:35] rise up to meet it. And that's a good thing. [88:38] - Yeah. Wanting your partners, friends to succeed long-term is gonna lead to your own [88:42] success. [88:43] - Yeah. [88:43] - 100%. That philosophy is really powerful. [88:45] - It makes a lot of sense. It makes sense with family, it makes sense with your employees, why [88:49] wouldn't it make sense with your partners? [88:51] Right? It makes sense with your customers. [88:54] - I just love that you're the foodie guide even for Morris in Taiwan. [88:58] We're literally, this is an honor of a lifetime to be guided by the best [89:03] food guide in the world. [89:05] Engineering and food. There's literally nobody better than Jensen. [89:09] - I'm just setting myself up for my own podcast. [89:12] - Yeah, exactly. - Yeah, yeah. [89:12] - Food blog. Post, we're saying post AGI. Here we go. [89:16] - Come on. One more. [89:18] - One more. - Plastic is- [89:19] - They have to hide it under a blanket. [89:26] - Oh. Man. [89:31] - Now you know a true Asian. [89:33] - Amazing. [89:34] - Eating and being hungry are completely unrelated things. [89:37] - All right. That's a wrap on one of the most incredible weeks of my [89:41] life. So Jensen, thank you so much. Thank you so much for this. [89:45] - Yeah, this was so much fun. It's great hanging out with you and chatting with you. [89:48] - And- - I could do this more. [89:49] - ... this was incredible food. Now on to the next adventure. [89:54] All right, that's a wrap on my time in Taiwan. It's been an incredible experience. [89:59] Talking to hundreds of engineers, having all kinds of street food, hanging out with [90:03] Jensen. I'm truly grateful to be alive. [90:09] Grateful for all the support, grateful for the hugs and the kindness I got. [90:13] The whole thing. Thank you for everything. I love you all.
