Transcript [00:12] Hi friends and welcome to 1840 where [00:15] each month we explore a different topic [00:17] balancing modern sensibilities with [00:19] traditional sensitivities to give you [00:21] new approaches to timeless Jewish ideas. [00:24] I'm your host David Bashevkin and today [00:27] we are continuing our exploration of [00:29] Tshua and thank you so much to our [00:32] annual sponsors Danil and Meera Stokar. [00:35] I am so grateful for your friendship and [00:37] support over all these years. This [00:40] podcast is part of a larger exploration [00:42] of those big juicy Jewish ideas. So be [00:44] sure to check out 1840.org. That's 18 [00:47] ferty.org org where you can also find [00:50] videos, articles, recommended readings, [00:52] and weekly emails. Before we get to [00:55] today's conversation, I wanted to call [00:58] your attention to something that 1840 [01:00] published in partnership with the [01:02] students of Rabbi David Ebner. Uh we [01:06] published a very brief collection. You [01:08] can see it over here if you're watching [01:10] on the video. Uh it is called the dance [01:12] of tshoua. I could hold that up. Um, [01:16] Rabbi David Ebner, who I never had the [01:20] privilege uh to meet, uh, was an [01:23] incredible educator. He was an [01:25] incredible writer and thinker. And we [01:27] collected some of his essays and poetry [01:30] related to Tshoua into a small [01:33] collection that we sent out, but is also [01:35] available online at 1840.org18.org, [01:41] our website, uh, for a free download. We [01:44] sent this out uh really to all of uh our [01:48] uh supporters over the years. If you [01:50] sent in, you know, whatever it is, uh we [01:53] sent out the a a hard copy. It is so [01:56] incredibly beautiful and relates in so [01:58] many ways to the work of 1840. It has so [02:03] many stories from the great leaders. Uh [02:06] those who have been listening for a [02:07] while know that 1840 is named after in [02:10] many ways the kidic revolution that [02:13] began in that year on Torah from the [02:17] world of ishitz that there was a kidic [02:20] community that finally broke off and [02:22] started uh on in the year you know 1840 [02:26] 1841 on Torah that is the school the [02:29] kidic school of ishitz their approach to [02:32] Jewish life their approach to Jewish [02:34] thinking is captured so beautifully [02:37] through stories through the Torah in [02:40] this collection uh of the Torah of Rabbi [02:42] David Ebner that we uh have entitled the [02:45] dance of tshoua. I would encourage all [02:47] of our listeners if you're looking for [02:49] something to read sub to accompany to [02:51] enhance uh your high holidays to enhance [02:55] your own prayers and experience on Yam [02:59] the high holidays. Please take a look. [03:01] Go online to 1840.org. you can download [03:04] this incredible reader. It is really a [03:06] privilege that that we are welcomed into [03:09] people's lives uh specifically uh around [03:13] this time of year and conversations [03:14] about tshoua about religious [03:16] transformation religious change is a [03:19] special privilege to be welcomed into [03:21] people's lives and that's why I thought [03:24] it would be so appropriate [03:27] uh to partner with the students of Rabbi [03:29] David Abner Zakra [03:32] uh to to share his poetry his words on [03:35] tshoua. Go online 1840.org. The dance of [03:39] tshoua is available now. And that really [03:42] is the perfect introduction for today's [03:44] conversation which is it is honest and [03:48] it is raw. I have been watching uh Rabbi [03:53] Y Jacobson uh for some time. His Torah, [03:56] his ideas uh have animated so much of my [04:00] own life. But recently, uh, if you pay [04:03] close attention, I've been noticing he's [04:04] been sharing differently and really [04:07] sharing more of himself in a very [04:10] different way with a tremendous amount [04:11] of vulnerability. And what I wanted to [04:14] explore with him and what we explore in [04:15] today's conversation [04:17] is what's going on behind the scenes. [04:20] Why is there been a a shift uh in just [04:23] the way he approaches and shares Torah? [04:26] This is a very honest conversation about [04:28] tshoua. Not the shuva for them but the [04:31] shuva that that us people who are [04:34] sharing publicly who I mean he has an [04:37] extraordinarily an extraordinary [04:39] following and and what is the purpose of [04:42] why we share this way? What is the [04:45] nature on the Torah approach to [04:48] vulnerability? What are we trying to [04:50] achieve with our own tshoua? It is my [04:53] absolute privilege and pleasure to [04:56] introduce our conversation with Rabbi Y. [05:00] Jacobson. [05:03] I am so privileged and this is really a [05:06] privilege and pleasure to sit with [05:08] someone who we've sat with once before, [05:10] Rav Y Jacobson. Thank you so much for [05:13] joining us today on 1840. [05:16] >> My privilege, my honor. Thank you for [05:18] the opportunity, the gift. You know, we [05:20] live in a very [05:22] interesting generation. Really, for the [05:25] first time in all of Jewish history, [05:27] we're raised, we have Jewish [05:29] institutions that are there to raise us [05:31] really from from the cradle from when [05:33] we're born. Nurseries, programs, and we [05:36] have camps, we have elementary schools, [05:38] we have high schools that take you [05:40] through really up until your mid20s. You [05:43] can go into yeshiva seminary, wherever [05:45] it is, and then you step out and you [05:48] step out into the world and you no [05:50] longer have that institutional cover. [05:52] We've built incredible institutions that [05:54] literally saved the Yiddish in America. [05:57] Why am I opening with this? It's because [06:00] I want to explore and talk to you about [06:03] how the focus of tshoua changes over the [06:08] course of your life. and specifically [06:11] how the tshoua that we have when we're [06:14] when we're in yeshiva when we're in [06:16] we're in high school we're in base [06:18] medish whatever it is there's this sense [06:20] of what tshoua is supposed to be we have [06:23] our list of things that we're supposed [06:24] to get towards we have all the alates we [06:27] have the special sitter you know that if [06:29] you can't think of an aa that fits into [06:31] this one I'll give you suggestions and [06:33] usually you could find one and then you [06:35] step out into adulthood and we don't [06:37] really have an institution the [06:38] institution ution really that we some [06:40] people merit to have a little bit [06:42] earlier or later is family. [06:45] You've spoken quite a bit about this and [06:47] what I want to hear from you is how does [06:49] tshoua change if it does at all from the [06:53] years when you are within the [06:56] institutions you have a certain focus [06:58] you want to do the rules and then the [06:59] tshouva of doing chuva in the context of [07:04] family in the context of spouse children [07:08] >> great question so I could not speak for [07:12] how it changes institutionally so to [07:15] speak for the collective because I think [07:17] everybody's journey especially in this [07:19] area of chuva is very unique but what I [07:24] do think is I know from my own [07:26] experience I think there are two [07:30] experiences of chuva and often I could [07:32] leave the yeshivas and leave the [07:34] institutions I never reached the second [07:35] level because I may have left the [07:38] structure the infrastructure of the [07:40] schools the seminaries the bmedrish the [07:42] yeshivas but I may still take that with [07:45] me at least in my memory and not really [07:47] have another model. What really uh [07:50] touches me in a very deep place is a [07:53] discourse of the alterb the balany [07:57] of lead who was also the founder of [07:59] kabadidis [08:01] and the author of the tanya the author [08:02] of one of the greatest students of the [08:04] mag of misri [08:06] you like history he was born 1745 passed [08:09] away in 1812 [08:11] and he writes in one of his discourses [08:13] something incredibly incredibly moving [08:15] he says the gammorra says the entra [08:18] chabas [08:19] taught his students that of your whole [08:22] life you should be doing chuva and he [08:23] asks the obvious question wouldn't he [08:25] wish his students to s not to sin rather [08:28] than to constantly sin and always do [08:30] chuva he say you should always be doing [08:33] chuva so literal interpretation is you [08:34] never know when you're going to leave [08:35] the world so you should always be [08:37] prepared just always repent he said but [08:39] I would think the ideal state is stop [08:41] sinning and you won't have to do chuva [08:43] every day you'll end the day and say you [08:45] know what it was a great day and he says [08:47] something very powerful. He says we make [08:49] a mistake of thinking that chuva is [08:51] connected to sins. Chuva is connected to [08:53] transgressions. He says it doesn't have [08:56] to do with that. Now, what are you [08:57] talking about? All of Chuva is [08:59] repentance. Chuva is I'm asking [09:00] forgiveness. It's remorse. Karabola, [09:02] it's all remorse, resolutions for sins [09:04] and transgressions. He says that's the [09:06] outer layer of chuva. That's the tip of [09:08] the iceberg. Chuva is the posture of the [09:12] soul. [09:13] A soul that's in touch with its deepest [09:16] heart space is always in a state of [09:18] chuva because the word chuva means [09:20] return and the soul in its deepest space [09:22] is aware of the most powerful experience [09:27] in its life and it's he calls it the [09:29] trauma of existence. The fact that the [09:31] soul essentially is subsumed in pure [09:34] infinity, [09:37] piece of Hashem which is beyond what our [09:40] human consciousness can even grasp. [09:42] There's a part of our consciousness that [09:43] transcends our human experience of it. [09:46] It's divine consciousness. But the soul [09:48] is very well aware of the breaking point [09:51] of the fact that it emerges into a world [09:53] where ego and self becomes the litmus [09:57] test. If I'm safe, if I exist, if I have [10:00] value, do you like me? Am I doing well? [10:02] Am I successful? Even in a religious [10:04] context, am I learning well? Am I doing [10:05] mitzvah? Am I observant Jew? Am I am I a [10:09] am I a good guy? Am I my wife like the [10:13] best guy almost the best guy at least [10:14] second? You know, am I going to get the [10:16] trophy? And he said all that is the [10:18] trauma of existence where my ego hijacks [10:21] my soul and suddenly I become an [10:24] existence and I may live my entire life [10:26] in that bubble like a chicken and egg [10:27] and not even know anything else. Truva [10:30] is the posture of a soul that [10:32] experiences that pain and it's homesick. [10:35] It's homesick to experience ego death [10:37] and to be subsumed in infinity. Of [10:40] course, if I have sins and [10:42] transgressions, I want to get rid of [10:44] them because that's like the stain that [10:47] simply blocks the ability to experience [10:49] my intimacy with Hashem. That's the [10:51] outer layer of chuva. But the inner [10:53] layer of chuva is the awareness of the [10:57] pain of separateness. And that pain of [10:59] separateness is at the core of all of [11:01] our anxiety. Deeper than all the anxiety [11:04] is the anxiety of me thinking that I [11:07] need an ego to exist. The burden of me [11:10] having to exist outside of infinity [11:14] is the most painful thing for the soul [11:16] because it's really completely one with [11:18] Hashem and yet he sent me here. So it's [11:21] not a mistake. This is my mission. So [11:24] chuva is the dual recognition of number [11:26] one there's a deep pain and the pain is [11:30] not because I'm a bad guy or because I [11:32] have psychological problems. On the [11:34] contrary, the more sensitive and [11:36] spiritual you are, the more anxiety [11:37] you're going to have of this level [11:39] because you're more aware of how [11:40] homesick you are. You're aware that [11:42] there's something unnatural in the very [11:45] definition of existence. Ble being in [11:48] flow alignment is surrendering that, [11:50] letting go, seeing it, and then saying, [11:53] "And now I could choose once again [11:55] connection surrender love trust [11:59] transcendence." And that's that's truva. [12:02] >> I want to build on that and and push a [12:04] little bit further and talk specifically [12:09] about chuva in adulthood of what that [12:13] process feels like. One thing that I [12:15] find really interesting cuz I listen to [12:17] quite a bit of your classes and [12:19] conversations is recently and I don't [12:23] know if this was a deliberate choice or [12:26] this was a strategy or something that [12:28] you saw was very desperately needed in [12:31] this moment in this generation is that [12:33] you started talking more about your own [12:35] transformation later in life. talking [12:39] about waking up and like re reanctifying [12:43] the holiest most intimate parts of your [12:45] life, family, children, and and and [12:48] that's really what spurred my opening [12:50] question, which is trying to understand [12:53] how is it that somebody like yourself, [12:56] who I assume was the best guy in Yeshiva [13:00] or of second to best, third to best, but [13:02] you you you were of you had all of the [13:04] pedigree and everything and you you you [13:07] were seen at point and we're rewarded [13:10] for your excellence. [13:13] And then you step out and you start [13:15] building an individual life. We're in [13:17] your home. You have a wife. You have [13:19] children. And you started talking about [13:22] how a transformation [13:24] later in life of what waking up. And my [13:26] first question I wanted to really [13:28] understand about this is why did you [13:31] choose to start talking about this [13:33] publicly? Why did you choose to share [13:35] this in this moment right now? I'm sure [13:37] these are things that you've been [13:38] grappling with for some time. Why did [13:41] you choose to start talking about it [13:43] now? [13:45] >> Wow, very deep question. There's [13:48] probably many layers here. And I'm not [13:50] even sure I'm conscious of all the [13:52] layers. I hope with time I'll become [13:53] conscious of more layers, but I think at [13:55] least one uh very important truth about [13:58] this is as follows. I grew up in a home [14:01] and in a community which was extremely [14:03] intellectually stimulating. [14:06] Um, [14:07] I was very into learning. I think I was [14:10] a pretty decent student in yeshiva. Uh, [14:13] with God's grace, I did well. Um, I even [14:17] had the privilege in my young years as a [14:20] yeshiva boy. It was the last years of [14:22] the labba's life to join the team of [14:26] oral scribes of the rebba [14:28] >> which was an extraordinary privilege and [14:31] also profound responsibility and also [14:34] extremely challenging and difficult [14:36] simply from an intellectual perspective [14:38] to memorize hours of the rebs and then [14:41] transcribe them and be on that team. So [14:43] it was really a blessed blessed [14:45] opportunity quite stressful for a young [14:48] yeshiva boy. My midsai shabas could not [14:51] be as fun and as exciting as a lot of my [14:53] classmates and friends and I was a [14:55] little jealous of them but I but I [14:56] understood the privilege and the and [14:58] also the is the responsibility and [15:01] generally you know I learned a lot. I [15:03] excelled and I did well. Thank God I did [15:06] well. I also, you know, built it into a [15:09] career that was successful, impacting [15:11] people, inspiring people, lecturing all [15:14] over the world, visiting hundreds of [15:16] communities, uh, Kabat centers, shors, [15:19] universities, bi yes schools at [15:22] seminaries, etc., non-Jewish centers, [15:25] which was all a great privilege and I'm [15:27] very grateful for it. [15:30] As I was growing later in my life, I [15:32] still felt there was something that was [15:34] intangible, but I was feeling my anxiety [15:38] more and more, acute anxiety. And I [15:40] always had anxiety. At a young age, I [15:42] started to pull out my hair at a very [15:43] young age. In those days, nobody sent [15:45] you to therapy. Therapy was not part of [15:47] the cosmic Jewish uh today. If you don't [15:50] have a therapist with sugar, what's [15:52] wrong with you? You know what I mean? [15:54] But then if you had a therapy, you [15:55] therapist, you were really, you know, so [15:57] it wasn't part of the equation. But I [15:59] was pulling out my hair and I had [16:01] different internal challenges but I [16:03] overcame them because I did well and I [16:05] was successful and I proved myself to [16:07] myself and I proved myself to the world. [16:09] But as you get older I guess uh layers [16:14] start being removed. Especially I was [16:17] struggling in my marriage. I was [16:19] struggling with my children. My children [16:20] were struggling and Hashem has blessed [16:23] me with a partner with a spouse who was [16:25] not very impressed with my external [16:27] accomplishments. [16:29] was hard for me because I could go out [16:31] to the world, get a standing ovation [16:33] after a speech to 5,000 people. And yet [16:36] in my home base, my wife was not [16:37] impressed by that. I remember I was once [16:39] featured on the front page of a [16:41] distinguished magazine. And from my [16:43] perspective, it was a it was an [16:45] accomplishment. It was a great [16:46] accomplishment. And I saw that my wife [16:48] was unhappy. In retrospect, it was God's [16:51] greatest gift because what she was [16:53] really telling me, not through these [16:55] words, what she was really telling me [16:56] is, "I see in you something that you [16:58] don't see yet. There's a greatness [17:00] inside of you that you don't know yet." [17:02] And I was feeling pain. I was feeling [17:05] anxiety. And something was not adding [17:07] up. Something was not adding up. And I [17:09] began a journey of deep, deep emotional [17:12] and spiritual work. A very, very deep [17:14] journey which came with a lot of blood, [17:16] sweat, tears, and pain. And I ultimately [17:19] discovered that my heart space was [17:22] blocked. I was a uh I was really really [17:28] shut down. I was shut down. But it was [17:31] so sly and clever because I could talk [17:33] about emotions better than most people. [17:36] My lectures can describe trauma, can [17:39] describe people shutting down. And the [17:41] reason is because I got it somehow. I [17:43] understood it. I understood it [17:44] intellectually. I had the empathy to [17:46] articulate it. But internally I did not [17:50] have the courage to experience it. It [17:52] turns out that because of my sensitive [17:54] heart at some point a lot of it shut [17:57] down and I was operating from a brain [18:00] space which was very successful because [18:02] I was like AI. AI is very very good you [18:05] know gets all the information processes [18:08] it knows how to say it better than most [18:09] people articulates it. The only thing [18:11] that AI lacks is a soul. There's no [18:13] nishama. You can't get married to AI. [18:16] you can't have an intimate relationship. [18:19] And that's what that was my story. And [18:22] when I started to explore it, it was [18:25] very very painful. I had to go back to [18:27] the rupture. I had to go back to the [18:28] breaking points. There was a reason I [18:30] disassociated. There was a reason my [18:32] heart shut down. There was a reason my [18:33] brain said, "I'll take over. I'll take [18:36] over your life. It'll be much more [18:37] successful. It'll be less messy. Uh you [18:40] won't have to deal with the the [18:42] intensity of real emotional experience." [18:46] And it's still something I struggle [18:47] with. It's something I struggle with. I [18:50] was reading I used to I would learn a [18:52] lot and I I saw the beauty of Yiddish [18:55] the depth of Kabala of course [18:58] but there was an emotional component [19:00] that simply was was missing. It was [19:03] missing and I didn't even know it. [19:04] That's how funny it was. I didn't know [19:06] it because my brain really compensated [19:08] for it. And I thought that to be [19:10] inspired means you intellectually [19:12] understand something. You get it? That's [19:14] what inspiration is. As I disintegrated [19:20] with the help of my wife and my children [19:22] and a good support system and a lot of [19:24] inner work and a lot of healing work, I [19:29] started to feel more of my heart space. [19:32] And then I realized something. I [19:34] realized that I wasn't the only one. I [19:37] realized that this is probably one of [19:38] the greatest challenges of our [19:39] generation. We have been incredible at [19:43] survival. We have been incredible at [19:45] intellectual achievement and [19:46] accomplishment. We've been credible at [19:48] creating, as you said, institutions and [19:50] infrastructures that facilitate [19:53] tradition and commitment and learning [19:55] and scholarship and also stories and [19:57] inspiration and and kindness and so [20:00] forth. But I suddenly realized that the [20:03] embodied experience of the divine in my [20:07] nervous system and my body was virtually [20:09] non-existent. And it was completely [20:11] relegated to the sub subconscious. As I [20:14] started to experience all these things [20:15] more, my heart started to open up more. [20:18] I went back to [20:20] some of the greatest works of the alterb [20:23] of [20:25] his discourses. And I remember one [20:28] morning I was reading it and I started [20:31] to cry because I realized he was [20:33] articulating in words the vision of the [20:38] other side of the space in which the [20:40] heart actually channels the frequency of [20:43] the divine. And I realized this was the [20:45] whole secret of Yiddish that I never [20:48] knew about. I knew about it [20:49] intellectually but what is it to [20:51] actually embody [20:54] the reality of Hashem? Not in my brain, [20:56] not in mathematics, not in a gor, not in [20:59] the cabal, not in not in philosophy, not [21:01] in mus, not in makova, but actually in [21:04] my nervous system, in my in my physical [21:07] visceral experience. [21:09] He says, "For my flesh, I shall [21:11] experience Hashem." And I realized that [21:14] that that that's it. The trauma of gulos [21:18] is the trauma not just of geographical [21:20] exile. I think much more of emotional [21:22] exile. [21:24] The bos says redemption is in the soul. [21:28] And when I started to experience it, I [21:31] realized this is what I this is what I [21:33] want to teach. This is what I want to [21:34] channel. This is what I was looking for [21:36] my whole life. This is the only thing [21:38] that's going to heal my anxiety, my [21:40] disassociation. [21:41] My soul is searching for truth, for [21:44] authenticity, for a living experience of [21:47] the divine, in which there's no ego, in [21:49] which I don't have to be defensive [21:50] anymore. In which criticism is not [21:53] suicide, in which an intimate, [21:55] vulnerable, authentic relationship is [21:58] actually the deepest and most blissful [22:00] experience. in which I don't have to [22:03] live anymore for validation of others [22:05] even for self validation in which I [22:08] could let go of all forms of [22:10] self-consciousness and the deeper I can [22:12] go into a real authentic ego death and [22:15] just be a channel for the a for the [22:17] infinite I can actually start breathing [22:19] and living and be present in life but [22:22] all of my protectors were going crazy [22:24] and with a vengeance they would they [22:26] they still do they constantly come back [22:28] to monitor to criticize to make me [22:31] to make sure that I'm impressive, to [22:33] make sure that I'm safe, I'm successful. [22:35] And it's it's it's literally a daily [22:37] choice of leaning into the frequency of [22:40] trust and surrender and love and faith [22:42] and transcendence. These are higher [22:44] frequencies. They're not easy. They're [22:46] not lowhanging fruits. Guilt, shame, [22:49] anxiety, need for validation, success, [22:51] these are lowhanging fruits. They're [22:53] very easy to get. Jealousy, resentment, [22:55] comparing myself to others, do you like [22:57] me? Do you not like me? The higher [22:59] frequencies that are available are [23:01] surrender uh uh love, faith, bliss, [23:06] transcendence, [23:08] they require uh um the ego to dissolve, [23:13] at least dissolve somewhat. [23:15] And once I started to teach like this, I [23:18] realized I'm not going to be teaching [23:19] this. I'm not going to be authentic. [23:22] Maybe I can give a beautiful speech. [23:24] Somebody close to me called me one day [23:25] and said, "Your old speeches were much [23:28] better. Your old speeches were much [23:30] better." Those were their words. I'm [23:32] like "Why?" [23:32] >> I would have called on the spot. [23:34] >> I'm like, I'm like, "Why?" And the [23:36] person said, "You used to speak about [23:37] ideas and nobody was as good as you. [23:40] When you spoke about the Rambam, you [23:42] allowed people to understand who the [23:43] Rambam was. When you spoke about the [23:46] people and now you're talking about [23:47] yourself, what happened to you? You [23:49] became from a large person, you became a [23:52] small person. [23:53] And I was like, "Wow, wow." And I I I I [23:57] had to feel into that. And then I had to [23:59] ask myself, is that true? And then I [24:01] realized, no, what happened was I'm [24:05] trying to teach much more from a heart [24:06] space. I'm trying to teach viscerally. [24:08] It doesn't always work. My my mind [24:10] sometimes takes over and I go back into [24:12] that space. But to really experience the [24:15] fusion, that's my own chuva. And it's a [24:18] daily chuva. It's a daily avoida. It's [24:21] uh it's it's something that my coping [24:25] mechanisms, my survival instincts have a [24:28] very hard time with it because I have [24:29] developed pretty effective coping [24:31] mechanisms and they were not sinister. [24:33] They were not evil. They were not [24:35] abusing people. I was not a perpetrator [24:37] of any form. They were doing good [24:39] things. I was teaching. I was speaking. [24:41] I was inspiring people. I even said a [24:44] lot of good things. I think I hope. [24:47] But I realized that I was cut off from [24:50] myself. There were certain wires that [24:52] have been severed very early on in my [24:54] system. And I did not know that. I [24:56] simply did not know that. And when they [24:58] started to rewire and I'm still working [25:00] on rewiring, that's my own chuva. That's [25:02] my own process of daily chuva [25:05] and throughout the whole year even on I [25:07] got to do chuva in the middle of pes in [25:08] the middle of [25:10] um there's simply nothing close to it. [25:13] But I remember one of my mentors told me [25:15] and it was it was such a powerful [25:17] moment. He said to me, he said, you [25:19] know, Yk is my full name. He said, you [25:23] know, even if you put up your videos on [25:25] YouTube and you don't have a 100,000 [25:27] views or 50,000 views or a million [25:29] views, you'll have 7 billion views. All [25:32] of humanity from President Trump to the [25:35] president of uh North Korea will be [25:37] watching your videos. In other words, [25:39] you'll reach success that your ego will [25:40] have to say, "Amazing. Amazing. I [25:43] affected the whole world. 7 billion [25:44] people are watching and being inspired [25:46] and SHARING IT. LIKE WHAT ELSE? And your [25:49] ego is actually wow. Then I want to tell [25:51] you even if that happens, [25:54] you haven't even scratched the surface [25:56] of your true greatness. [25:59] Because your true greatness is your [26:02] infinity. You're channeling Hashem's [26:03] infinity. And I got it. Trauma is really [26:08] reducing ourselves to such smallness. [26:12] The litmus test of my success is if a [26:15] million people or 10 million people or [26:17] 100 million people or 10 people or my [26:19] wife and kids and my bismet scholar [26:22] whatever it is like me and that means [26:25] that I'm actually a pathetic [26:28] insignificant reality and that's the [26:30] core of the anxiety that is the core of [26:32] the anxiety and paradoxically it's in [26:34] the death of all of that it's in the [26:37] death of all of that that I we can [26:40] actually begin to breathe teeth and I [26:43] still have a hard time articulating it [26:45] because it's still a shock for my ego [26:47] brain, for my egoic mind. This is still [26:49] a shock. Like, what are you doing now? [26:50] What are you doing? Why are you being so [26:52] vulnerable? Why you being vulnerable? [26:54] What are you doing? Like, you had a good [26:56] life. You weren't [26:58] a [27:00] homeless beggar impoverished and [27:02] destroyed. Like, what are you trying to [27:03] do? But yet I know that it's in the [27:06] heartbeat of my authenticity [27:09] where I can find some truth, some peace [27:12] and that's what that's what I want to [27:13] channel. [27:14] >> So I I want to ask you cuz when I was [27:17] listening to you, you know, I I want to [27:19] be very careful. I don't compare at all. [27:22] Um I'm I'm on every metric I am a much [27:27] smaller, less influential person than [27:29] you. And yet I feel like I experienced [27:32] something around 3 years ago. It was [27:35] very interesting cuz you mentioned you [27:36] were talk I've always been talking about [27:38] mental health. I did a series on mental [27:40] health on 1840. It's right before Pesak [27:43] 3 years ago. Um, and what was so strange [27:49] is that for the for not for the first [27:52] time, but of the most significant [27:54] episodes I've ever had, I I suffered [27:56] afterwards like what I would call an [27:57] actual nervous breakdown. Like I I [28:00] couldn't get out of bed. I couldn't [28:01] move. Like I felt like the the way I [28:03] described it was like I I felt like the [28:06] the floors kept on caving in. Like I was [28:09] on like a 50s store building and I and [28:12] it was genuinely frightening. I had to [28:15] relearn how to exist in the world. I had [28:18] to relearn literally like my wife, my [28:22] children, like I had to restart from [28:24] scratch. But something I'm still [28:26] genuinely struggling with is [28:30] we're both in this place of like of of [28:33] being out there of of trying to [28:35] influence and and and loving that and [28:38] and enjoying that responsibility and the [28:40] commitment. [28:41] And I still struggle to this day with [28:44] what you said looking at the at the [28:46] numbers at the views. 1840 is not the [28:49] the yeshiva.net that even though you [28:52] know like it's not it's not we don't [28:54] have the reach that you do and I [28:56] sometimes I look at the other podcast [28:59] the other people and and it I know it's [29:02] not healthy and I know it's not it's not [29:04] going to get you anywhere but you could [29:06] feel the cling [29:08] >> of of compar and I I wonder for you did [29:12] you did you let go do do you look at the [29:16] stats on your YouTube videos does it [29:18] does it do you still notice what hits [29:21] and what doesn't hit. Is it that you [29:23] stop noticing and looking or that the [29:27] noticing and the looking is done in a [29:29] healthy, more trustful context? [29:32] >> Beautiful question. And it was a moment [29:34] when I said, "Hashem, you know, if you [29:36] really want me to delete every single [29:38] video of mine on YouTube, on the [29:40] yeshiva.net, every Instagram of every [29:43] message every clip [29:47] not a clip not an audio garnish garnish [29:50] not in writing and it's saying that's [29:52] who you want he [29:55] was such a comforting feeling it was [29:57] such a liberating feeling [30:00] so what I'm going to tell you honestly [30:02] is I try to lean into that posture I [30:05] can't always [30:07] I have the other parts I want to know [30:09] what's going on I get stressed, I get [30:11] overwhelmed. But because I have a [30:13] reference point of the other side of the [30:17] vocabulary of an authentic soul, I think [30:20] it just dictates my life much less. I [30:23] don't worship in the same way. It used [30:25] to be when I finished a speech or she [30:28] my trauma I should say craved feedback. [30:32] I needed the people to tell me how [30:34] amazing it was for me to feel like I'm a [30:37] good guy. And the more I yearned for it, [30:41] the more the yearning increased. As the [30:44] garra says, [30:46] the more you satiated, the more hungry [30:48] it was. And it could never be enough. [30:51] And if I got one criticism, it canceled [30:53] out all the praise. And the reason, of [30:55] course, was because the void was [30:57] internal. The void was I didn't like [30:59] myself. So the more people can tell me [31:02] that they like me and I changed their [31:03] life, the more I could start believing [31:05] that I'm liking myself, but it's all [31:07] fake, fraud, phony, because inner [31:10] self-love could never come from the [31:12] outside. And if there's a million people [31:13] telling me they like me, just makes me [31:15] hate myself more because I realize how [31:17] desperate I am. And even with a million [31:19] people, it's now a million people [31:20] telling me how lonely I am, which is why [31:22] celebrities are more depressed than [31:23] everybody else. So I'm a push guy, [31:25] there's two people who tell me that I'm [31:26] a nobody. But if I'm A HASH OF A GUY, [31:28] THERE'S TWO MILLION PEOPLE TELLING ME [31:30] EVERY DAY THAT I DON'T EXIST. WOW, [31:32] that's hard to deal with. 10 billion [31:34] people telling you every day you don't [31:36] exist. That's tough. That's tough. And [31:40] then I realized it's simply because I am [31:42] not in touch with my heart space. I am [31:44] not in touch with my soul. The moment I [31:47] had even 30 seconds of an embodied [31:50] experience of what does it mean to feel [31:53] Hashem's infinity in my nervous system [31:57] and at that moment I don't need an ego [31:59] ever again. I don't need anybody giving [32:01] me attention. I'm literally channeling [32:04] infinity. I remember somebody once told [32:05] me a therapist once told me a very [32:07] profound person. person said, "Feeling [32:10] your own spiritual energy [32:12] is infinitely more valuable than getting [32:16] feedback from 1 million people." And I [32:19] know how true it is. If I'm giving a [32:21] share or a class or lecture and I'm in [32:23] touch with my own spiritual energy, [32:25] which means with the divine flow coming [32:27] through me, I'm just a channel for the [32:29] divine flow. That will be infinitely [32:32] more satisfactory emotionally, [32:34] psychologically, spiritually than being [32:37] disassociated. And having a million [32:39] people giving me a standing ovation for [32:40] 20 minutes and telling me I changed [32:42] their life for eternity and I'm the [32:43] greatest gift to humanity since I don't [32:46] know who. That's great. It's great for [32:48] three and a half minutes. I saw when I [32:50] came home from a lecture, I got a [32:52] standing ovation. Then I was eating [32:53] uninhibitedly. Why am I eating? I was [32:56] numbing the pain of loneliness. And in [32:58] the good Jewish way, the great numbers [33:00] is, you know, I wasn't addicted to [33:02] terrible things. I was addicted to food. [33:04] You know, a chocolate Danish doesn't [33:06] seem to be harming the world, [33:08] >> but it was simply numbing my soul. How [33:10] do I know? Because I finished the Danish [33:11] and then I went for a second Danish and [33:13] then I needed some sushi and then I [33:14] What? What was happening? I was hungry [33:16] like you're a frock. [33:17] >> Yeah. [33:17] >> I wasn't hungry. I was hungry for for [33:19] love. I was hungry for connection. I was [33:21] hungry for authentic attachment. And I [33:24] still feel it. I come home after an [33:25] intense lecture and my coping mechanism [33:28] say it's time to eat. Time to eat. [33:29] Because they're experiencing again this [33:31] anxiety that I need to numb. [33:34] And some of our numbers are [33:36] intellectually rewarding. Some of us [33:37] numb ourselves through religion. Some [33:40] some are some of us numb ourselves [33:41] through Yiddish. Some of us numb [33:43] ourselves through worshiping God. But [33:45] I'm worshiping a god that's simply [33:47] numbing me from my own trauma. So as the [33:51] told the atheist, you know, the god you [33:53] don't exist. You don't believe and I [33:54] also don't believe in you know the god [33:56] that's here to simply allow myself to [33:58] numb myself because to say I have this [34:01] also it's it's it's it has nothing to do [34:04] I realize it has nothing to do with the [34:06] real experience of hashem. And then I [34:10] started to be so grateful to people like [34:13] the balant and the alterba the balata [34:17] and I realized what they were doing. [34:20] What really happened was that the trauma [34:22] and the suffering of exile [34:25] caused so many of us to disassociate [34:27] from an embodied experience. It's very [34:29] hard to remain present with your nervous [34:32] system with so much persecution and [34:34] pain. It's very difficult. You can't you [34:36] can't blame anybody. We can't judge [34:37] anybody. You know, we have thousands of [34:40] years of faith and of suffering in our [34:43] genes. And the Balsham who was an orphan [34:46] who was thrown out of the system who [34:48] didn't make it in any school of yeshiva [34:50] who hung out in the forests in that [34:52] vacuum he could hear the voice that of [34:55] Ramavu heard that Mashabenu heard the [34:58] original voice of experiencing the [35:00] divine [35:02] hashu. He is my consciousness. is in my [35:05] nervous system and it was breathtaking [35:08] because I realized that's where all [35:09] bliss exists. That's the only place it [35:11] exists. It doesn't exist anywhere else. [35:12] There's no attachment outside of that [35:14] attachment. Once I'm present in that [35:15] attachment, I could be attached to [35:17] myself. I could be attached to others. [35:19] So, I want to ask you about the context [35:22] in which a lot of your [35:25] vulnerability, but that's not even the [35:27] right word, a lot of your insight [35:28] emerges. And it's a place that actually [35:31] I feel extraordinarily close to even [35:33] though I've only gone once and it is in [35:37] the organization that is called Kesher [35:40] Navi. I want to talk about that for a [35:42] moment. Kesher Navi, which you know it [35:46] it it's mostly for more Casa clientele, [35:49] more Hamisha clientele, but it is an [35:52] organization that's dedicated to [35:54] coaching and mentoring parents who have [35:56] children who are struggling in in a [35:58] whole variety of ways and how to keep [36:01] that family unit intact. And I noticed [36:04] that you go you speak there a lot. [36:06] You're very drawn. In almost the [36:07] founding of 1840, we put that at the [36:09] center. Every year before Pesak, we do [36:12] conversations, parents and children. We [36:14] call it intergenerational divergence. [36:17] And there was something about the family [36:20] unit and the struggles within the family [36:22] unit that I found were like literally [36:24] like a like almost standing at Harena. [36:26] You're getting a new revelation that you [36:29] didn't get when you were in yeshiva. [36:31] when you really start to grapple with [36:34] the immediate family unit, all the [36:36] broken and every family has their own, [36:39] >> you know, I think is the line from [36:41] Dusty, all happy families are alike and [36:44] all unhappy families are unhappy in [36:45] their own unique way. What do you think [36:47] is unique about the religious revelation [36:50] that comes in the context of families [36:54] struggling with their own children? You [36:56] go into that room and I've been there. [36:58] You see have strals beckishas people [37:01] learning they're doing deer they're [37:03] doing dafoim they're really like at the [37:06] highest level and yet they all have this [37:09] very similar struggle where their ch [37:12] their children are not in the image that [37:14] they wanted [37:15] >> and I I look at that as I I've I've said [37:17] it many times it's the holy of holies [37:19] it's the koteshakadashim but what I'm [37:21] trying to understand [37:22] >> is what is unique about the revelation [37:25] that comes in the context why why is the [37:28] revelation so different when it comes in [37:30] the context of spouse and children than [37:33] it does in the context, this is really [37:34] my my opening question, than it does in [37:37] >> in Yeshiva. You you had an audience with [37:40] the Rebi. You you you had there's not [37:44] there's nothing more superal of a [37:45] revelation in the last hundred years [37:47] than to stand eye to eye with the [37:50] Labavich Rebi. And yet there was a [37:53] revelation that you were only able to [37:55] receive in the context of familial [37:59] struggle. Yeah. [38:00] >> The most b like getting seeing spouses [38:03] seeing each other children adjusting [38:05] expect. Why is it [38:06] >> I learned that I could not live [38:07] vicariously off the lab. It's a very [38:10] deep and profound and acute truth and [38:13] that is sometimes you can encounter very [38:16] very great souls [38:18] and that too can be a crutch that allows [38:21] you to avoid confronting your own pain [38:25] your own soul. You see such holiness you [38:28] see such greatness and you almost live [38:30] off it. But sh our word for the abyss is [38:35] the same letters like the word sha [38:37] borrowing spirituality from somebody [38:39] else. That's what it means to live in [38:41] the [38:42] >> I've never heard that term before. [38:44] That's the the abyss. The language we [38:46] use which appears throughout the liturgy [38:47] is sha. The the lowest level and that's [38:51] the language of borrowing. [38:52] >> Borrowing. [38:53] >> Yeah. [38:54] >> It's not really yours. [38:55] >> It's not yours. I'm borrowing energy. [38:56] I'm borrowing your wisdom, your energy, [38:58] your heart. And it's nice. It's [39:00] beautiful cuz I could transmit it, but [39:03] it's borrowed energy. It's not [39:04] authentic. It's because I don't believe [39:06] that God wants me. I don't believe that [39:10] I am the greatest thing that ever [39:12] happened to Hasha or as our sages put it [39:14] in. [39:16] I don't believe it. I may believe it [39:17] intellectually. I may give a thousand [39:18] lectures about it. I'm good with this [39:20] topic. Believe in yourself. [39:28] I'm good at it. I did it. And it's [39:30] helpful. It's a good It's a good [39:31] message. It's a good message. But [39:33] viscerally, my nervous system got [39:35] another message. There's a lot of guilt. [39:37] There's a lot of shame. I realized that [39:39] at a core, it's this is hard to say, but [39:42] it's true. I realized that I have a an [39:44] existential shame at my core. There was [39:47] an unconscious fear that if people would [39:49] really know me, not my oratory skills, [39:52] not my charisma, not even that I'm a [39:55] nice guy because I'm a I think I'm a [39:56] pretty nice guy, but they would know my [39:57] core, my real real core. You would not [39:59] look at me again. It certainly wouldn't [40:01] be my friend. I would not look at me [40:03] again. So, I couldn't even know about [40:04] that part. I'm going to show it to you. [40:06] And imagine that much of my life is [40:08] dedicated to avoid confronting that [40:10] part. So I'm like standing at the edge [40:12] of a cliff and my entire life is [40:14] invested making sure that nobody sees [40:17] the cliff and I don't even see the cliff [40:20] which means I can only be facing in one [40:22] direction my whole life I don't have the [40:23] freedom to see reality cuz I'm going to [40:25] see reality until I was not ready to [40:28] face that and it's daily work. I [40:31] couldn't even begin to integrate all of [40:34] my parts. So I think, you know, as as I [40:38] developed and as I grew up, I had to go [40:40] back into me. Where did this all land [40:44] inside of me? [40:46] And I realized I couldn't even see the [40:49] reb until I did not see myself because I [40:53] don't think we can really see the core [40:56] of another human being if we haven't [40:58] seen ourselves. All I will see in you is [41:01] how you make me feel better. All I would [41:03] see in you is the part of you that works [41:05] for my survival system. And I could do [41:08] that with a big sadic to it. I think [41:10] it's true that all great people in [41:13] history, real great people in history [41:14] had at least one person who saw them. [41:18] They really really saw them. Seeing them [41:20] not their talents or their gifts or [41:22] their resources, seeing them at their [41:24] core in the most regulated way. almost [41:27] like a regulated mother who's looking at [41:28] her infant and sees the infant at its [41:32] core. Not what you need to do for me, [41:34] not what you're going to be, not what I [41:35] hope for you, but actually the you that [41:39] heaven conceived of when heaven [41:42] conceived you into existence, what that [41:44] you looks like. Um, I was always moved [41:47] the previous describes the meeting [41:49] between the alternate [41:52] of Misra. And when he came to him, he [41:55] told him a few words. He said, "The told [41:58] me that a [42:01] soul, it's very emotional, a soul that [42:04] was never here yet, cuz most souls are [42:06] reincarnated, is going to come down into [42:08] the world, is going to pave a new path [42:12] revealing the infinite depth of Yiddish. [42:14] And he's going to have incredible, [42:16] incredible adversaries, very significant [42:19] ones, who are going to try to cut him [42:22] down. but he will prevail and he turns [42:25] to Alreb and he says that's you imagine [42:28] that gift because when he was being [42:30] persecuted by some of the great [42:32] contemporaries of his day and he was a [42:34] humble man you start doubting yourself [42:36] feel like maybe I am a weirdo maybe I am [42:39] distorting Yiddish [42:41] right you're talking about one of the [42:43] biggest geniuses the is a masterwork of [42:46] goas like but he had one person who saw [42:49] the mag says I see you I know you you [42:51] don't have to doubt myself. If I never [42:53] had one person to see me, I'll never see [42:56] myself. I'll doubt myself. Once I have [42:58] one person to see me, I could see me and [43:01] then I could see others. So, till I [43:04] cannot see me, I couldn't even see the [43:06] bos. I couldn't see the alter. I [43:08] couldn't see the Reb because it's only [43:10] in meeting your somebody once asked me [43:13] was the five towns and Yakov Langanger [43:15] did this public with me with the [43:17] audience and I remember at the end, you [43:18] know, he throws these surprise questions [43:20] like you do. What time do you go to [43:21] sleep? What time do you wake up? What's [43:22] your favorite book? Whether you go to [43:23] the bathroom, how much cholin do you [43:24] eat? You know, all these questions to [43:26] confuse the the brilliant experts who [43:28] don't remember how much Cholen to eat on [43:30] Sham. So he throws out a question. If [43:32] you could meet one person in history, [43:34] who would it be? And I remember I told [43:36] him myself, I would love to meet myself [43:40] because [43:42] if I don't meet myself, I won't meet [43:44] anybody in history. I'll just meet my [43:46] version of them. And once you do meet [43:48] yourself, you could meet every person in [43:50] history because in the core of energy, [43:53] everything is there. You know what did [43:55] the poet say? You're not a drop in the [43:56] ocean. You're the entire ocean and a [43:58] drop. [43:59] >> Mhm. [44:00] >> You're the entire ocean and a drop. And [44:02] if you're the entire ocean in a drop, so [44:05] then you meet the entire ocean. That [44:07] that that's what divine embodiment [44:09] means. You meet the entire ocean. So [44:12] coming back to your original question, I [44:13] think it's our most intimate [44:15] relationships, our wives and children [44:18] who don't allow us to settle for our [44:21] mediocrity. What I find with the youth [44:23] today is and I describe it with the [44:26] verse in the Song of Songs. [44:32] These are our spouses and children [44:35] banging [44:36] on the closed doors and the walls that [44:40] have surrounded our hearts called Arlas [44:42] Hale, the foreskin of the heart. [44:48] Mommy, I want to feel your heart space. [44:51] Can you open up your heart? Can you open [44:53] up your heart? In yeshiva, nobody [44:55] challenges me that way. In my community, [44:57] often people don't challenge you that [44:58] way. Certainly around the world and [45:00] among fans or likes, they don't say, [45:03] "David, they're like, you're amazing, [45:04] Rabbi W. THAT WAS LIFE-CHANGING. I'M [45:06] NEVER GOING TO HAVE to say Kip my life. [45:08] Incredible. Amazing. You're a gift. [45:11] Shine." [45:12] But my children were struggling. My [45:14] marriage was struggling. And they [45:16] weren't impressed with Friday night [45:18] speeches with Rabbi Wa. They didn't care [45:20] for it. It didn't mean anything to them. [45:22] They were looking for something else. [45:25] What they were looking was pissy. [45:27] I want your heart space. I want your [45:29] your your embodied embodied heart space. [45:33] Not philosophy, not ideas. I want to [45:35] feel you. I want to feel your etm, your [45:37] your core. That's what real real [45:39] attachment is. I didn't know about that. [45:42] I didn't know it existed. I didn't know [45:44] it existed. And I think a lot of us in [45:46] Kesha Navi began to learn that. And [45:49] there were two stages. Stage number one [45:51] was realizing not to take it personally. [45:54] Your child is struggling because your [45:56] child is struggling, not because you're [45:59] a failure and a horrible parent. And if [46:01] you don't give me nas, I am a miserable [46:03] failure because then we can't be here [46:04] for our children cuz we're busy getting [46:06] angry at them for not living up to our [46:08] expectations and not getting the we want [46:10] the yeshiva, the seminary. So that's [46:12] number one. That's step one and it's an [46:14] important step. Can you recognize your [46:16] child's pain? Can you see your child? [46:18] Can you separate? Cut the umbilical cord [46:20] and just be there for them with [46:22] attachment, with love, allow their [46:24] healing process. That's step one. Step [46:26] two is harder and deeper. Step two is [46:30] what if actually much of the pain of my [46:32] child is a response to my own unresolved [46:36] wounds? What if my children are [46:39] mirroring for me the fragmented parts of [46:42] my personality that I never made peace [46:43] with? What if the pain of my children is [46:46] really a gift to reflect back to me [46:48] where I have disassociated and they're [46:50] just as good children? They're bringing [46:52] it out to the four. You know, like [46:53] somebody once said, what's this weird [46:55] custom that we hide and then our [46:58] children are the ones who find it, the [47:00] ones who expose the ones who return and [47:02] then they want a prize. And then [47:04] somebody once said a gald he said [47:06] there's a profound message here exactly [47:08] on the night of liberation and that is [47:11] we hide a lot of parts of our life [47:13] especially our broken matzas. Our broken [47:15] matzas we put into pillowcases and under [47:17] couches and in drawers and we cover it [47:19] up and we hide it very very well [47:21] sometimes for generations. [47:23] And whatever we hide our children are [47:26] going to reveal. They're going to find [47:27] it and they're going to show it back to [47:29] us. And then you could do one of two [47:30] things. You could scream at them. You [47:33] could disassociate from them. You could [47:35] explain to them how much they have and [47:37] how you would have never done this to [47:38] your parents and how ungrateful they are [47:42] and they are an entitled, despicable, [47:44] bratty self-centered narcissistic [47:46] generation addicted to internet and [47:49] technology. How dare they reveal this? [47:51] And they're rebelling against the [47:52] Messiah and they're destroying 3,000 [47:54] years of Yiddish. Take a deep breath. [47:57] Look your child in the eyes. Thank him [48:00] or her [48:01] because only when you take it [48:04] and you internalize it can you together [48:07] finish the sed and say [48:09] can you actually set yourself free and [48:11] that is I think what we are really [48:14] really seeing our youth today are very [48:17] very sensitive they are picking up you [48:20] know in the 1960s they finally could [48:22] pick up the sound of the big bang [48:25] >> and authenticate it and I say our youth [48:28] today is detecting The sound of theum, [48:31] the original big bang is the lurionic [48:34] cababalisticum upon which much of kabala [48:37] are based on. The sound of [48:39] >> the sound of the tsum [48:40] >> the contraction the contraction [48:42] >> of the absence [48:43] >> the absence of infinity which allows [48:46] existence to emerge feeling that it's [48:50] separate from the divine embrace and [48:52] love and therefore creating anxiety at [48:55] the core of our DNA because existence [48:58] knows deep down that it's based on a lie [49:01] it's based on concealment and that [49:03] simpic [49:05] masters would say [49:07] Meaning it's not a real absence. It's [49:10] the divine allowing you to emerge as an [49:13] independent person who will choose [49:14] trust. You have to choose it because [49:16] it's it's coming from your play your [49:18] space. And I think they're all picking [49:19] up on it. Can you hear that this is what [49:22] they're hearing? And if this is what [49:23] they're hearing, don't throw them back [49:25] into the tinum. Don't just beat them [49:27] into compliance and pressure them just [49:29] to follow you because then you're [49:31] crippling yourself and they don't buy [49:33] it. [49:34] There's a much deeper response. And the [49:36] deeper response is, can I find my heart [49:39] space? Can I hear the pain of the temple [49:42] in my life and let go? Not [49:44] intellectually. I did this [49:46] intellectually for many years. I got it [49:48] figured out viscerally. It's very [49:50] vulnerable. It's extremely visceral. [49:52] It's your children feeling the [49:55] authenticity of your own relationship [49:56] with God. It's them feeling that you [49:59] actually don't need them to have a very [50:02] deep relationship with yourself and God [50:05] because they will not compensate for the [50:08] attachment that you're searching for. [50:10] And once you can meet it, it's [50:12] fascinating how it shifts. It's [50:14] fascinating. I saw it in my own family. [50:17] One thing that I want to ask and this is [50:19] in many ways the inverse of the question [50:21] of like looking at the views on on [50:24] YouTube but something that I have have [50:26] struggled with and you alluded to and [50:29] and and it may be a very almost an [50:31] identical it's an inverted question but [50:34] I I want to talk a little bit about how [50:37] this awakening allowed you to deal with [50:41] uh criticism and specifically I'm coming [50:44] from a a very real place for whatever [50:46] reason. Um, [50:49] at different points in 1840 as we've [50:51] come up, we've hit some real bumps in [50:53] the road where people who listen to us [50:56] either get very worked up and upset and [50:59] they'll, you know, we have a community [51:02] where people can be very zealous and [51:05] they're going to try to shut you down [51:07] and say that that's and they'll really [51:09] like there was a point this year where [51:11] like I felt there was somebody who was [51:13] really right of me like genuinely like [51:15] sending out emails to other people maybe [51:17] you got email and and and genuinely [51:20] trying to schmutz me up and getting [51:22] dragged down and initially they were [51:26] galdic successful and not in the outside [51:29] in me. They shut me down because [51:33] >> I have a lot of doubt. I I I don't [51:35] always know that I'm right. I try to [51:36] share what I think is authentic and [51:38] true. I try to have Rabb who I ask and [51:41] we every episode that we release is is [51:43] always listened by another set of ears. [51:46] And even with all that, one person gets [51:48] upset and they try to make a rash and [51:50] they go around and you feel so um [51:53] isolated betrayed [51:56] you're waiting for everybody. You're [51:57] waiting for Abundam to get up and clap [51:59] and say, "Leave Bashfkin alone. He's [52:01] Gavalduk. He's a gem that we want." And [52:03] I see I want people to say something [52:05] that like it's a ridiculous expectation [52:07] what no one's laying down on the tracks [52:09] for me. I I wanted to know you've also [52:12] maybe in in a different and and most of [52:14] these things people who follow me they [52:16] probably have no clue that there's one [52:18] guy but when you're in it it's your [52:20] whole life you all it takes is one [52:23] self-righteous person and they usually [52:26] have their own they always have their [52:27] own issues their own brokenness but it's [52:29] still it still can shut you down and I'm [52:31] curious for you how not the positivity [52:36] but how did you learn to really tame or [52:39] grapple with vocal negativity directed [52:42] at you. And I don't even need to I'm not [52:45] even going to ask whether whether you [52:47] have any because my assumption is you [52:49] are out there enough in the world that [52:52] there's somebody who really does not [52:53] like you and makes it an effort makes an [52:56] effort to let everybody know and try to [52:58] and how do you deal with that [53:00] negativity? [53:01] >> Yeah, [53:04] such an important question. So here too [53:06] I [53:08] have been working on evolving evolution. [53:13] I used to crave compliments and loathe [53:17] criticism. In retrospect I understand [53:20] why the compliments made me believe I [53:23] exist. They made me believe I'm a good [53:25] guy. I'm valuable. They avoided the need [53:28] for me to see the cliff and face the [53:31] shame. And they created an external [53:34] facade that made me feel good for 6 [53:36] minutes, hoping for the next compliment [53:39] 6 minutes later. And it was very, very [53:42] difficult. It was difficult because the [53:43] compliments and the criticism were [53:44] literally operating on the same [53:46] frequency. They were doing the same [53:47] thing. They were talking to a shell of [53:50] me. They weren't talking to me. The [53:51] compliments weren't talking to me. The [53:53] criticism wasn't talking to me. They [53:54] were both dealing with a shell. And the [53:57] shell didn't really exist. So it was [54:00] being created by a compliment and being [54:02] destroyed by a insult or by a criticism. [54:05] It's a very torturous way to live. What [54:08] I realized was that the compliments were [54:10] as torturous as the criticism [54:13] because the compliments verify to me as [54:15] much how much know how inauthentic I am [54:18] that I'm really a shell of myself. It's [54:20] a it's a flimsy shell. It's a house [54:22] built a palace built of cards you know [54:27] as we say [54:29] literally a dream and it comes and it [54:32] goes one of the most beautiful was a [54:35] real apicaris grew up in a religious [54:37] home went to Germany became friends with [54:39] Mendelson wrote a biography into the [54:41] realm and he met the mag of misri and he [54:44] hated he hated he hated so that's why [54:46] you could trust the good things he says [54:48] and he says that there were three tyrus [54:50] that he heard in the name of the maggot [54:51] and they blew him away. In other words, [54:54] even Schlomma had to concede, had to [54:57] acquies to the to the richness of it. [55:00] And one of the terrorists, two of the [55:01] terrorists that they're life-changing [55:03] terrorists when you can visually [55:04] internalize them. And it's fascinating [55:06] that years later they found these teras [55:08] in manuscripts of the students of the [55:10] market. So, it's really incredible [55:11] because the original source comes from [55:13] not from texts. [55:16] One of the Tyruses, one of my all-time [55:19] favorites, Alicia has anxiety. He can't [55:22] prophesize. He says, [55:28] as the musician begins to play, the hand [55:31] of Hashem rests on Alisha. And the mag [55:33] says [55:35] it could say [55:39] and he says there's a big difference [55:40] between a musician, a musician, a [55:42] vocalist, a rabbi, a caner, a speaker, [55:45] and the instrument itself. [55:48] The vocalist or the musician has [55:50] self-consciousness. [55:52] I come home and I say they liked me. Why [55:54] is somebody texting in the middle of my [55:55] speech? Why did you just leave in the [55:57] middle of this messing? I'm [55:58] self-conscious. You think they're going [55:59] to hire me next year? You think I can [56:00] ask for more money? You think I'm really [56:03] good. The violin doesn't have [56:05] self-conscious. The violin doesn't come [56:07] home and say, "You think I did a good [56:08] job? I'm a threat of arrogance. You [56:09] think they like me." The violin has no [56:11] ego. Says the mag. [56:15] When the becomes the niggan, becomes the [56:19] like the instrument of the song. In [56:22] other words, no self-consciousness. [56:24] I'm just a violin. [56:30] Right? I am a harp to your melodies. You [56:34] love ego death. I'm not there. You're in [56:37] flow. That's the mag. He says something [56:40] else from the mag says in [56:45] the honor of your friend should be as [56:47] precious as your own honor. In other [56:48] words, the way I respect myself, I [56:50] should respect my friend. But the mag [56:52] says we would think is you shouldn't be [56:55] so into giving honor to yourself. And he [56:57] says, [57:00] The honor that you get from people [57:02] should be as valuable as the honor and [57:04] the accolades you give to yourself. [57:06] Imagine I finish a speech and nobody [57:08] applauds me. So I go home and I give [57:09] myself a standing ovation for 15 minutes [57:10] and I don't have to stop. It's a joke. [57:13] It's a bluff. I know it's worthless. So [57:15] he says that's exactly the value of [57:17] quite of the accolades that other people [57:19] give you. The moment I could start [57:21] internalizing this, I could let go of [57:23] more and more and more. I would finish a [57:26] speech in a shar and I was waiting for [57:28] the feedback and then I realized I am [57:32] actually stealing from God. I'm afra [57:36] once said once said something beautiful [57:38] the points to it already [57:42] when you say something in the name of [57:43] the one who said it you bring redemption [57:45] to the world. You know when you're [57:47] paraphrasing give credit attribute it to [57:50] the one who said it. Why do you bring [57:51] redemption to the world? It's a NICE [57:53] THING. IT'S A NICE THING. IT'S [57:54] COPYRIGHT. DON'T STEAL THE SAY IT IN say [57:56] it in the right in the person's name. [57:58] The Reb said right. [58:02] Hashem is speaking the world into [58:04] existence. Everything in the world is [58:08] really God speaking it. [58:10] When you identify in every the one who [58:13] says it, you're channeling. [58:16] You redeemed the world from Helm from [58:18] the concealment from the blockages. So [58:20] when I realized when I finish a speech, [58:22] if I'm looking for your validation or [58:24] somebody else's validation, what I'm [58:26] really doing is I'm seeking to hijack [58:30] something from Hashem. Somebody once [58:31] wrote, "Creativity is easedropping on [58:34] God." If this was a creative class, it's [58:37] simply because I was eavesdropping on [58:39] the creator. Creativity is from creator. [58:41] It's creativity of the creator. So now [58:43] you say, "Rabbi, why was the best class [58:45] ever? Was life changing. I NEVER HEARD [58:46] SUCH A CLASS. IT CHANGED MY MARRIAGE. My [58:49] coping mechanism wants to take that, own [58:52] it, hijack it, and ask for a little [58:55] more. Could you explain to me how it [58:57] changed your life? And all I'm looking [58:58] for is build up my ego more. What did I [59:01] just do? I stole the energy that Hashem [59:03] just channeled through me. I took it [59:05] home. I own it as myself. And you know [59:08] what the sad thing is? It's never going [59:10] to be enough. In 10 minutes, I'm [59:11] miserable cuz I'm building up a self [59:13] that doesn't exist. I am part of a el [59:17] there's nothing outside of it. I watch [59:18] my coping mechanism and I say I know you [59:21] want to be I know you so hard want to be [59:23] validated. I'm here for you and I'll [59:26] give that up and just be a channel. It's [59:28] literally the avoida of surrendering the [59:30] ego and the insecurity again and again [59:33] and again. We call it bal. Now when [59:35] there's criticism I can go into the same [59:38] posture. It's not always easy. I'm not [59:40] going to say that it doesn't occupy any [59:42] space in me. I have to ask one question [59:44] and that is when I look in the mirror [59:48] and I can see the innermost space of my [59:51] heart. [59:52] Was this the right thing that I said or [59:54] the wrong thing that I said? And that's [59:57] counts billions of times more than any [60:00] compliment or any criticism. What does [60:02] God think of Rabbi Y Jacobson's share [60:05] this morning or lecture or speech? And [60:08] if I find out that I made a mistake and [60:10] maybe I said something wrong, maybe I [60:12] was insensitive, maybe I was [60:12] disrespectful, maybe I exaggerated, [60:15] maybe I dramatized, maybe I lied, maybe [60:17] I said something wrong, maybe I was a [60:19] little clueless, I could also turn to [60:21] him and say, "I'm human. I have my [60:24] traumas." What a good lesson. What a [60:27] lesson. Help me fix this for the future [60:29] and surrender it. Now, it's hard because [60:31] my coping mechanism will come in and [60:33] say, "No, you're a loser. You're a [60:34] failure. You always do this. IT'S ALWAYS [60:36] YOU ALWAYS do this. It wants to now [60:38] completely detach me from source and put [60:41] me into guilt. So now I'm the most [60:42] miserable person who ever lived cuz I [60:43] made a mistake and somebody got insulted [60:45] and I need to hold that and again bring [60:47] that into the relationship and say, [60:48] "Yeah, it feels horrible, but deep down [60:50] I know I'm an innocent person. I'm a [60:53] good person. I'm going to learn from my [60:55] mistakes." And somebody recently came to [60:57] me and said, "You know why you're being [60:58] vulnerable recently in your classes? Cuz [61:00] you're looking for attention. You're [61:03] looking for attention. You used to get [61:05] attention by being a skillful, [61:07] CHARISMATIC PRESENTER. AND NOW TODAY'S [61:09] GENERATION. Everybody wants [61:10] vulnerabilities. All right. My wife has [61:13] new attention. I could listen to him. [61:18] But God inside of me knows the truth and [61:20] I know the truth. Somebody else told me [61:22] something a little deeper and said, [61:24] "You're like a little boy who discovered [61:26] a sandbox. At 54, you discovered [61:28] vulnerability. So you're talking about [61:30] it all the time. YOU KNOW, YOU FOUND A [61:32] NEW YOU FOUND A NEW LOVE OF YOUR LIFE. [61:34] Don't worry, you'll grow out of it. [61:36] That's a very deep observation. And you [61:39] know what? Maybe I'm I'm sure I'll [61:41] evolve and emerge. And I want to be [61:43] honest about it. And I hope I can be a [61:45] channel to truth. So, I think at every [61:46] point of our life, we really have to, [61:49] you know, ask ourselves [61:51] right now. One of the most life-changing [61:54] for me insights of the [61:59] is he says we say every morning [62:03] I shall not be embarrassed and [62:06] humiliated for eternity. [62:09] Why would I be embarrassed for eternity? [62:12] And he says what it means is like this. [62:14] The second the soul departs from the [62:16] body [62:18] the consciousness of the material world [62:21] is gone. The soul is not anymore in the [62:23] body. And suddenly in a split second, [62:26] the soul experiences itself as subsumed [62:30] in infinity. [62:32] There's complete complete ego death and [62:34] suddenly a part of the eternal bliss of [62:36] Hashem. [62:38] And he says, Dr. Ebba says the shame of [62:42] looking back and saying, "Wow, I [62:44] invested my entire life in building up a [62:48] reality that doesn't even exist." [62:50] How much pain and shame he says it was [62:52] all a mech to I was building and [62:55] building a self that doesn't exist that [62:57] shame is the shame of seeing eternity of [63:01] facing your own eternity and asking [63:04] where was I living which part of me was [63:06] alive and I think this is the question I [63:08] have to ask myself the person may be [63:10] very very critical the person may be [63:12] saying I'm embarrassing Judaism I'm [63:14] embarrassing God I'm going against the [63:16] Torah whatsoever then I want to ask [63:18] myself if I had a complete complete ego [63:20] death. I had no blockages. [63:22] I had literally survival coping [63:25] mechanisms opened up and unraveled and I [63:28] came out of my egg and I faced infinity [63:32] in life and I face the place of me that [63:35] doesn't need any validation because it [63:38] has the divine confidence of being part [63:40] of Hashem. [63:42] Will I have make peace with what [63:45] happened today because I was a channel [63:48] or not? [63:49] That's that's the that's the only [63:51] criticism that matters. [63:53] >> I want to pose a question again thinking [63:56] about where we are in history and what [64:00] needs to change. I feel like every [64:02] generation had a much clearer [64:07] understanding of what we were waiting [64:09] for and what needs to change in order to [64:12] have what we've been anticipating. [64:15] you know, some messianic redemptive [64:18] experience of the of the Jewish people. [64:21] And, you know, a few generations ago, [64:23] like my grandparents' generation, it was [64:26] having yeshivas and basic Jewish [64:29] education for people. You know, all four [64:30] of my grandparents grew up in the United [64:32] States of America. It's a miracle that [64:35] that my family even has a connection to [64:37] Jewish life. Most mashfkans in the [64:39] world, very very distant, don't really [64:40] have a Jewish education. So we spent a [64:43] generation building building yeshivas [64:45] and communities and we developed a model [64:48] of Judaism which is the of American [64:51] Judaism. It's the innovation doesn't [64:53] require state power. It doesn't require [64:56] coercion. You know there there we don't [64:58] get taxed. Nobody's getting if you get [65:01] excommunicated from one sh you go to the [65:03] one down the block. There's a lot of sh [65:04] a lot of great options. And there is [65:07] this sense right now of like where [65:10] should we be focusing? Where's the work [65:12] focusing on? And especially when we come [65:14] to the high holidays and the yumm, you [65:17] know, there's a sense, yeah, I I I could [65:19] try to say a little bit less lush and [65:21] hurra next year. I is that what's going [65:24] to like move the needle at this point? [65:26] Is that what's going to to set to send [65:29] those over? It feels like [65:31] it's very unclear. I feel a deep [65:34] ambiguity in where Clius should be [65:37] investing their focus and their [65:39] resources [65:40] >> to get to the collective bliss that [65:42] we've all been waiting for. [65:44] >> I was wondering if you could talk almost [65:46] generationally [65:47] in this moment. What do you feel like [65:51] the collective body of the Jewish [65:52] people, what do we need to learn and [65:55] what do we need to unlearn in order to [65:58] really realize what we have been waiting [66:02] for? [66:03] Wow. What I could say is what I am [66:06] experiencing in my own heart and my own [66:08] soul. And that's who I could speak for [66:11] and what I could speak for. [66:13] Carva, [66:16] I feel that one of the most incredible [66:22] avoid deep work of our generation is [66:26] cracking open. This is the first [66:28] generation in Jewish history when at [66:30] least for most of us, our nervous system [66:33] is relaxed from outer threats. [66:37] If I ask my eyes, are you seeing a lion [66:40] or a Kazak or a Nazi coming? No. My [66:43] ears, my nose, my mouth, my hands. [66:48] Most Jews, thank God, most at least in [66:50] most situations, I know of course there [66:52] are some very difficult situations, have [66:54] safety most of the time. [66:57] That means this is the first generation [66:58] in history where we could turn inward [67:01] because if it's a Nazi is banging at my [67:02] door. Both my parents grew up in [67:04] Stalinist Russia. You couldn't go [67:05] inward. [67:07] Survival. Survival. Survival. Mr. [67:10] Snafish. And this is true for thousands [67:12] of years. In one form or another, very [67:14] small breaks. But this is actually a [67:16] generation where most of my life all of [67:19] my life 54 years relatively external [67:22] safety. And yet we see anxiety [67:25] everywhere from what? [67:27] Why are my kids anxious? Why am I [67:29] anxious? We have prosperity and money [67:32] and parnosa that our great-grandparents [67:34] couldn't even dream of. The biggest [67:36] today is a bigger than the Yeah. You go [67:39] to our you can eat six meals a day [67:44] from soup to watermelon to bis soup to [67:47] cholin to some sponge cake to honey [67:48] cookies of course and some more food and [67:50] then somebody brings from the pyaban [67:52] some good sushi and you're good to go. [67:53] You don't have to you don't have to go [67:54] home for supper. The anxiety is coming [67:56] from a deeper place. It's coming from [67:58] the sound of the tim. This is a [68:00] generation that can actually heal our [68:03] history. crack open and start [68:06] experiencing the divine in our bones and [68:09] in our nervous system. It's very foreign [68:12] to us because we have showed up with [68:16] tremendous commitment but with a lot of [68:18] latter layers, a lot of facads at least [68:20] I can speak about myself and I think the [68:23] unique aid today and it's very very [68:26] creative. It's very beautiful. I'm [68:28] grateful for it is what does it actually [68:31] look like if each of us can find the [68:34] Msiah inside of us can experience [68:37] redemptive consciousness says [68:40] redemption begins in the mind what does [68:44] it look like if each of us is living in [68:47] their full infinite greatness and power [68:51] there's no defensiveness there's no ego [68:54] there's no need for anybody to rub [68:55] shoulders there's no living from [68:57] anxiety, fear, self-consciousness is [69:00] what if I am embodying the full divine [69:03] bliss in my bone. I can feel Hashem's [69:05] infinite love to me and operate from [69:08] that heart space. Everybody shines in [69:12] their deepest deepest greatness that is [69:15] incomprehensible and inconceivable. [69:18] Here's the tragedy for me. I didn't even [69:21] know what these words mean. If you would [69:23] tell this to me a couple of years ago, I [69:25] would look at you. This is a goal. This [69:27] is a task. What in the world are you [69:29] talking about? Opening up what? What do [69:31] you want me to do? I was so closed up. I [69:34] didn't even understand the vocabulary of [69:36] redemption. You know, if I'm a chicken [69:38] and egg my entire life and there's [69:40] nothing outside of that egg, that egg [69:42] becomes reality. I may laminate the egg. [69:45] I may expand the egg. I may bring in [69:46] some furniture into the egg, but that's [69:48] the egg. Gula is the egg cracking open. [69:51] And it's breathtaking. It's literally [69:53] breathtaking when you could start [69:55] feeling and having a reference point of [69:57] what it is to experience the bliss of [70:00] Hashem in you inside of me because we [70:03] are all channels for infinity. [70:06] And I think this is the unique [70:09] or certainly one of the unique and [70:11] missions of our generation where Judaism [70:13] will not be taught. Yiddishkite will not [70:16] be preached. It won't be communicated [70:19] only through words and through rituals, [70:21] but it will actually be embodied. [70:24] Embodied. [70:29] What does that feel like in my nervous [70:30] system? To feel love to Hashem with all [70:33] my heart, with all my soul, with every [70:35] fiber [70:37] of my being. What does that feel like in [70:39] the nervous system to experience? [70:43] What does that feel like in a marriage? [70:45] What does that feel like between parents [70:46] and children? What does such a dvening [70:49] learning look like? What does learning [70:51] is [70:54] experienced as a divine embrace as my [70:57] opportunity to hug Hashem and Hashem [70:59] hugging me like the Tanya puts the [71:00] learning of Torah. I know the [71:02] intellectual richness is very satisfying [71:05] for many many people, but sometimes [71:07] that's eclipsing the experience of it, [71:10] the embodiment of it. And what would [71:12] that look like for Jewish leaders to be [71:15] able to radiate that to the world? We're [71:18] worried about Israel. We're worried [71:19] about our future. We're worried about [71:20] Jewish continuity. Worried about [71:22] assimilation. Critical. But sometimes [71:25] we're worried about it from a very, very [71:27] limited vantage point. Live [71:30] the greatness that you really are and [71:32] you set the world on fire. Raenu is [71:36] really saying this to the Jewish people [71:37] in Sepharim. The greatest exile of the [71:41] Jewish people is the internal exile. The [71:43] golap [71:46] could you imagine if every Israeli [71:48] leader if every Jewish leader if every [71:50] rabbi rashes Shiva Reb teacher parent [71:54] doesn't practice Judaism doesn't even [71:57] teach Juda doesn't even believe in [71:58] Judaism but actually embodies it. [72:04] How do you think the world will respond [72:07] to a Jew who is at channeling the divine [72:11] energy through them where there's no [72:13] insecurity, there's no ego, there's no [72:16] fear. [72:17] >> What do we need to unlearn in order to [72:20] learn that? What do we need to let go [72:22] of? Meaning everything comes at a cost. [72:25] And I feel like we have like we're at a [72:30] moment where we're holding so much as [72:32] you said, not just trauma. We're holding [72:34] a lot of good stuff. [72:35] >> Of course. [72:35] >> Do you think that there's something that [72:37] we're holding on to that we need to let [72:39] go of in order to create the space for [72:41] this kind of learning? [72:42] >> So much pain. So much pain. So much [72:45] fear. So much pain. And so much fear. [72:49] And we can't judge it. We have survived [72:52] four 3,600 [72:54] years after Ramina. We have survived [72:58] and heaven knows it wasn't easy. Heaven [73:00] knows the price we paid to survive. And [73:03] we have survived. And for the first 60, [73:06] 70 years after the Holocaust, this was [73:08] the theme of every good keynote speech [73:11] at every Jewish conference, [73:13] organization, and convention. And I'm [73:14] guilty for that. I'm not guilty. It's [73:16] beautiful and for good reason. A person [73:20] who saw his parents being to Rabos, all [73:22] of his parents, both of his parents and [73:23] siblings being taken to trebling in the [73:25] gas chambers and a whole generation like [73:26] that. Is there another message? [73:30] Give your children the gift of Yiddish. [73:32] Rebuild our schools. Rebuild our [73:33] yeshivas. Rebuild our shows. And we did [73:34] it. We did it. Israel was rebuilt. The [73:38] Jewish world was rebuilt. [73:40] That was the message. The kids don't [73:43] tune into this message so much. I speak [73:45] to teenagers. They're like, not that [73:48] they don't care about Awitz. They care [73:49] about Awitz. Of course, they care about [73:51] Awitz. They're not they're not their [73:54] hearts are not deaf and closed down. But [73:57] the soul is looking for aliveness. Where [74:00] is Hashem today? [74:03] A relationship with Hashem. The word [74:05] Hashem sometimes is our greatest [74:07] problem. Our God is a God of old. Our [74:09] God is a God of a fixed image. It's not [74:12] a living vibrant reality of infinity [74:16] vibrating through my bones because [74:18] that's alive. It's alive. [74:20] So the shift is a very very profound [74:22] one. It's a shift from gullless [74:24] consciousness to gula consciousness. [74:27] It's like all of history was given to us [74:30] and now you have the ball. Go to the END [74:32] ZONE. DON'T DROP THE BALL AND DON'T JUST [74:34] SAY I'M GOING BACK. Sometimes we talk [74:36] about let's just go BACK AND BACK. THE [74:37] GOOD OLD DAYS. LEARN FROM THE GOOD OLD [74:40] DAYS. THEY WEREN'T SO GOOD. WHATEVER. [74:42] BUT LEARN, LEARN EVERYTHING. LEARN, OF [74:43] COURSE, LEARN. Don't back off. Don't [74:46] lament about the old. You're missing the [74:48] point. You were given the quarterback [74:49] called Hashem. Threw the ball into your [74:52] hands. You caught it. Don't drop it. Now [74:54] run and run for your life. But that's a [74:58] revolution. That's openness. A lot of [75:00] people are afraid OF THAT. OH, SO NOW WE [75:02] HAVE A NEW religion because when we [75:04] don't really get, we don't really [75:06] understand what it means to godliness. [75:08] were afraid [75:10] that everything is going to destroy [75:12] rather than actually bringing the back [75:15] to earth. [75:17] Bringing the divine presence back to [75:19] earth viscerally the way heaven intended [75:22] the world that begins in my heart. [75:24] Unmbodied [75:26] experience of Hashem in my bones. I [75:29] don't have to say another word to my [75:30] children. I don't have to say another [75:33] word. [75:35] I'm fully here because my eye is just an [75:38] extension extension of the source. So [75:42] it's a very very deep moment of [75:45] awakening and an opportunity but it's [75:48] letting go of a lot. There's so much [75:50] pain and there's so much fear and I get [75:54] it. I get it. It's true in the secular [75:57] Jewish world. It's true in the Jewish [75:58] world. But the funny thing is there's a [76:00] common denominator. We're both being [76:02] dictated by pain and fear. and [76:04] everybody's just doing what they know to [76:06] do best. Now, of course, the religious [76:08] Jewish world is flourishing in terms of [76:10] yiddish and yes and it's amazing and [76:12] mitzvah. So, we have the groundwork cuz [76:15] we have we have the groundwork [76:18] bringing in that ghoul of consciousness [76:21] opening up the heart opening our eyes. [76:23] It's literally opening opening our eyes. [76:26] It's I had an experience one day it was [76:29] very very intense. [76:32] The experience was what if [76:36] the acidic masters say it says in the [76:37] medr that the difference between ga and [76:39] guula the word for exile and redemption [76:41] is the same word in Hebrew just one [76:44] olive gya is exile and gula redemption [76:46] is an olive it's putting in the olive [76:49] and I realized what if the real secret [76:51] of msiach it is [76:55] not anything outside [76:58] there'll be a lot of things coming from [77:00] outside I'm not hill says is a Mashiah [77:02] and not heard nothing is going to [77:03] happen. But what if the real revolution [77:05] of Mashiach is that I actually be able [77:08] to look into my own life, my own home, [77:10] my own family, my own presence and [77:12] experience Hashem's infinite love and [77:16] presence in this moment and know that [77:19] it's as perfect as it can be. Give [77:22] myself permission to be really okay. [77:24] know as Alreb always says that nothing [77:26] changed from before creation to after [77:28] creation in the sense of the oneness and [77:31] the unity and if I can really experience [77:34] it I look at exactly the same life and [77:37] the same world but I see the alf [77:41] and that's the most perfect moment that [77:44] ever was and ever will be and I'm like [77:48] what are you crazy do you know how many [77:49] problems people have there's illness [77:51] there's death there's tragedy there's [77:53] mental health crisis this this problems, [77:55] this kids, this marriage is falling [77:57] away. I get that. I get that. I also [77:59] have some pain in my life. And yet [78:02] there's a deeper layer of consciousness [78:04] where the soul can really trust, where [78:07] the soul knows that it's perfect. It's [78:10] exactly the way it's supposed to be. [78:12] That's redemptive consciousness. [78:15] The says the says the brings [78:22] the difference between this world and [78:23] the messianic world is what will be [78:25] subjugated to the kingdoms. So says [78:29] what's [78:31] he says is thoughts of stress and [78:35] anxiety. So the difference between and [78:38] is often in the mind. If I could let go [78:42] and actually experience in my nervous [78:44] system the presence of anoid mulvadi, [78:48] what does that feel like? Who even knows [78:51] what does that feel like? But David, [78:55] there's no bliss in history that ever [78:57] existed and ever will exist outside [79:01] of the ecstasy and the bliss of allowing [79:04] our egos and insecurities to die [79:09] and surrender [79:11] into this most open parted space where [79:15] Hashem fills every cell of our 70 [79:18] trillion cells, every neuron of our 86 [79:21] billion neurons. [79:22] every organ, every tissue, every [79:24] molecule, every atom, every subatomic [79:27] particle, and we're channeling it. This [79:30] is, I think, the most important [79:31] conversation. These are the [79:33] conversations around our shabas tables, [79:35] dinner tables. This is the 24-hour [79:37] conversation. What I learned from my own [79:40] work is that any conversation, I don't [79:44] want to sound too weird, but any [79:45] conversation in life that is not about [79:49] Hashem, it's not a real conversation. [79:51] It's not an authentic conversation cuz [79:53] either about Hashem or it's about my [79:55] insecurity. It's one of the two. Either [79:57] I'm trying to find favor in your eyes or [79:59] manipulating you, exploiting you or [80:00] impressing you or just talking about [80:02] nothing or we're both cracked open and [80:07] we're connecting. What does it mean [80:08] we're connecting? We're channeling the [80:10] divine energy. So any conversation [80:13] that's not about Hashem, it's not a [80:15] conversation worth having. After that [80:17] episode I had where I really felt [80:18] collapsed, I did something a little [80:20] unusual which is in, you know, I've been [80:23] in therapy since fifth grade. you know, [80:24] my parents. So, I my whole life I [80:26] actually started group work. And it was [80:28] group work [80:30] >> when you're sitting around with others. [80:32] >> Yeah. [80:32] >> That actually showed me it's the only [80:34] conversation I ever have. Even if I'm [80:37] even if I'm not even if I'm just [80:38] sneering at somebody because I don't [80:40] like the way they talk that's also a [80:42] part that it's always not. Yeah. the the [80:44] Yakav Ysef writes of Yseph of Pulma [80:49] was one of the great students of the BM [80:51] and in Ben [80:54] told us [80:57] which is 1765 [80:59] he says that the BM used to say [81:01] something before the blowing of the [81:03] chauffeur it's really a parable for the [81:05] whole year but he would say it before [81:07] chauffeur and it's incredible to know [81:08] that the BMT spoke before the blowing of [81:10] the chauffeur and to know what he said [81:13] that's unique [81:14] And we know it from his student who says [81:16] he heard it. He heard it from the BMP. [81:18] What what should you tell your students [81:20] before blowing of the shelf? Especially [81:22] if you're the you would think it's time [81:24] to do chuva. It's time to apologize for [81:27] your sins. It's time to coronate. It's [81:30] time to make it's time to let go of your [81:33] transgressions. [81:36] Whatever good beautiful [81:39] messages to arouse the people to chuva [81:41] to repentance to to closeness to Hashem. [81:44] The bos actually would tell a story that [81:46] which is not surprising. And the story [81:48] he tells the says is as follows. He says [81:51] there was a beloved king who invited all [81:53] of his people his subjects to come visit [81:55] him and spend time with him. Wow, what [81:58] an invitation. Everybody came. But [82:00] here's the catch. As they're approaching [82:01] the palace, they see a huge fortress. So [82:04] some people just went home. Some people [82:06] climbed it. They came to the other side. [82:08] And on the other side, there were huge, [82:10] huge treasures of gold, silver, jewelry, [82:13] money. Ah, what a beautiful king we [82:15] have. They took the prize and they went [82:17] home. Those who continued, there was [82:19] another wall and on the side of the next [82:21] well the other side there were more [82:22] treasures. And so there was wall after [82:24] wall. Most people either went home, took [82:26] the treasures and ran. He says, "But [82:29] then there were the few anchas [82:32] who realized it's not what he said. He [82:34] said, "Come visit me." And they [82:36] continued the effort and they climbed [82:38] the walls and they saw the trophies [82:40] where they went on and on until they [82:42] reached his presence. And as they walked [82:45] into his presence, they turned around [82:48] and they saw there were no walls. It was [82:51] all optical illusion. There was a [82:55] and this is the story that Bashto would [82:56] say before the blowing of the Ysef [82:59] explains. It's literally the story of [83:01] life. All of life is Hashem's desire to [83:06] be with you, to be with me. I want you. [83:10] Why do I want you? It's beyond why. [83:12] Logic was created because of this [83:14] relationship. So, logic will never [83:16] understand the depth of the [83:17] relationship. My mathematical mind will [83:19] not understand my love to my child. [83:22] The mathematics was created after the [83:24] bliss, not before the bliss. Come. But I [83:27] want the relationship should be your [83:29] relationship with me. Which means you [83:30] have choices. We come from radical [83:33] infinity. We come from radical love. We [83:35] go back to radical love. But during our [83:38] years here, we get to choose radical [83:40] love. So there are walls and I climb the [83:42] wall. Those of us who have courage, we [83:45] penetrate the wall. We go beyond the [83:47] wall. The walls the BMT says is anxiety. [83:50] That's what he says. The walls are [83:51] anxiety self-consciousness guilt [83:54] shame resentment jealousy hatred a [83:58] lot of the pain that we have. Those are [84:00] the walls. And he says people climb the [84:02] walls. And you know what? There's a good [84:04] rewards, psychological rewards of facing [84:07] your walls. And this is the big mistake. [84:09] Some of us doing the work, take the [84:11] rewards and we go home and we never get [84:14] to the destination. We look for [84:16] enlightenment, spiritual consciousness, [84:18] expansive consciousness, healing. So [84:20] don't stop. And then when you get to the [84:23] other side, you turn around and you see [84:25] there was never a wall. [84:29] inside every struggle, inside all of the [84:31] anxiety, it was always there, literally [84:33] holding you. That's the breathtaking [84:36] experience of our generation. This is [84:39] our work. It's literally that moment. [84:42] There was a moment in my life. I [84:44] remember I was doing a lot a lot of [84:46] inner work and crazy pain, sobbing, [84:49] sobbing sobbing. [84:52] And then there was a release. [84:55] And I looked around. I looked at and I'm [84:57] looking at it and suddenly I saw all the [84:59] anxiety. It was like a drop inside the [85:02] ocean, but I only felt the drop. That's [85:05] what our anxiety is like. We're inside [85:07] an invisible ocean of God's love and [85:10] bliss. But we only feel the drop, which [85:13] is by the way how quantum mechanics is [85:15] described. You see the ripple and you [85:17] don't see the invisible field. That's [85:19] asy because the symptoms doesn't allow [85:22] us to see the quantum fields of [85:23] godliness. So we just see the the drop [85:25] of water and I live in that drop and I [85:28] need to live in that drop because those [85:29] are the walls he created. But on the [85:31] other side you see you were completely [85:33] in the ocean. That duality [85:36] and the fusion of that which calls [85:41] the lower level of unity the higher [85:43] level of unity [85:44] there is nothing that can even come [85:47] close to it. This is the tick of the [85:49] world. This is the healing of every [85:50] marriage. This is the healing of every [85:52] soul. This is the bliss that Hashem had [85:56] before all of creation where we're all [85:59] striving for. This is it. That's what [86:01] the bos would say. I cannot thank you [86:04] enough. You know, there's a beautiful [86:06] book. I think it was written by Mark [86:08] Epstein. It's called the trauma of [86:10] everyday life. And he has a story right [86:13] in the beginning that everything that [86:15] your words and your voice really says a [86:17] patient came into him and said, "I feel [86:19] like I'm in a little canoe with a [86:21] tattered uh sail and I'm the ocean is [86:25] mammish storming and it's beating down [86:27] in my boat and I feel like I'm hanging [86:28] on for dear life and I don't know how to [86:30] escape this." And he said something that [86:32] always stuck with me and I at moments [86:34] I'm able to to embody it in the right [86:37] moments. But the this Mark Epstein looks [86:39] at this patient and said, "You're in [86:42] this boat, but you have to realize [86:43] you're also the ocean. You're also the [86:45] ocean." That all of that feeling, [86:47] >> right? [86:48] >> And and really your voice and what [86:50] you've done, I I'm just so incredibly [86:52] grateful for what you bring. [86:53] >> I think I just want to add something [86:54] because I think it'll be beneficial for [86:56] people cuz they might be thinking like, [86:59] "This guy dreaming, you know, what did [87:01] he put into his coffee this morning?" [87:04] Right now, as I'm saying all of this to [87:06] you, there's a voice in my head. And you [87:07] know what it's saying? Saying you don't [87:10] believe any of this. [87:12] You don't feel this. You're just [87:13] preaching because it sounds good. I can [87:16] hear this voice literally shleing me [87:18] down and trying to tell me that I'm [87:20] disassociated, that I don't believe any [87:22] of this. And it's a painful voice. I [87:24] wish it wouldn't be there. I wish I [87:26] could just be holistic. I wish I can [87:28] just be openhearted and just allow the [87:32] tears of joy to come down. But this [87:34] protector is trying to protect me and I [87:36] could see it. And I'm saying this [87:38] because I can literally see the gullus [87:40] and the goula inside my own brain. [87:42] Literally, I know without a doubt that I [87:45] had those reference points. I had those [87:46] moments where I experienced this. And [87:49] that's why I'm not going to go back [87:51] because I know the the distinction [87:53] between torturous self-conscious [87:55] existence and emancipated [87:58] surrender blissful existence. I know it. [88:01] I feel it. I'm never going to go back. [88:02] With God's grace, I'm never going to go [88:04] back. I don't want to go back into the [88:06] abyss of [88:08] But I just think it's important for all [88:09] of us to understand because we're in the [88:12] transition moments between redemption [88:14] and exile. We are privy to literally [88:17] hold on to both which is unique because [88:19] the next generation won't have that. The [88:21] previous generation didn't have that. [88:22] This is our generation to be able to [88:24] literally look at both sides see both [88:27] mechanisms and then choose in a very [88:31] humble and humanistic way where I want [88:33] to live where I want to dwell where I [88:35] want to spend my time what I want to [88:37] trust. Do I want to trust my anxiety and [88:40] my ego or my divinity? I just wanted to [88:42] share that. [88:43] >> I am beyond grateful if you'll allow. I [88:46] always end my interviews with more rapid [88:48] fire questions. My first question is [88:51] really, we always love book [88:53] recommendations [88:54] and I'm specifically looking for books [88:57] that helped you really um discover this [89:02] new path. looking for a book that was [89:04] introduced to you, a way of thinking [89:06] that introduced you that helped open [89:08] your eyes to this new approach to tshoua [89:12] and embodiment in life itself. [89:14] >> So to be very honest with you, something [89:15] very interesting happened to me and that [89:17] is I would read books especially on [89:19] psychology and healing and self-help and [89:22] some of them were very helpful but after [89:24] my deeper journey I realized that uh [89:28] they're all touching the tip of the [89:29] iceberg. They're saying good things. [89:30] They mean well. But I realize that my [89:33] soul starts dancing when I learn from [89:36] the alterba. When I learn the discourses [89:39] of the Balatana, when I start learning [89:41] uh real realist from the alterb or his [89:44] successors all the way to the Reb, the [89:45] BMP and his students, I started to feel
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